2022 Election

blindboy's picture
blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

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Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:13pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
AndyM wrote:

I think you're a bit behind the times Indo.

The 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index shows Australia ranked number 18 in the world with a score of 73/100, down from a score of 85/100 in 2012.
This shows a steady drop under both Labor and LNP governments over the last decade but a drop from 11th to 18th in only the last year under the Libs.

It's worth noting that apart from Singapore, all of the countries ranked in the top ten are multi party democracies.

Okay fair enough double checking the article i read from last year and the idea link it does seems to have changed since.

BTW. It should be noted its a perception index of corruption rather than a proper measure, perception doesn't always reflect reality, if media etc focus on one or two incidents perception changes while in reality there could have been more corruption before just without the focus

Either way each to their own, but my concern is more the things that really affect me and my family, like employment rates, interest rates, cost of living etc

And i guess now freedoms too.

Geez INDO you're dribbling again. The perception that a country is corrupt isn't based on media reporting corruption, it's based on the actual corruption.
And even if you are right, which you aren't, perception is also very damaging. If you perceive a country to be corrupt, would you invest there? If you perceive that government contracts are crooked, would clean businesses apply for them?
Give it up champ. Your mob are a pack of crooks, and that does serious damage to our economy. It pisses away our tax dollars, drives up consumer prices, drives down confidence and wages. Your bent mob are fucking ordinary Australians over every fucking day for their own, and their mate's benefit.

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zenagain Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:32pm

You see Indo, perception is everything. For example- on the surface, I perceive Vic to be a potty-mouthed, one-eyed, know-it-all who sees anyone that doesn't subscribe to his narrow world view as a far right leaning fascist, racist, anti-semitic xenophobe incapable of having their own thought.

When in actuality, he probably is.

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:45pm
Vic Local wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
AndyM wrote:

I think you're a bit behind the times Indo.

The 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index shows Australia ranked number 18 in the world with a score of 73/100, down from a score of 85/100 in 2012.
This shows a steady drop under both Labor and LNP governments over the last decade but a drop from 11th to 18th in only the last year under the Libs.

It's worth noting that apart from Singapore, all of the countries ranked in the top ten are multi party democracies.

Okay fair enough double checking the article i read from last year and the idea link it does seems to have changed since.

BTW. It should be noted its a perception index of corruption rather than a proper measure, perception doesn't always reflect reality, if media etc focus on one or two incidents perception changes while in reality there could have been more corruption before just without the focus

Either way each to their own, but my concern is more the things that really affect me and my family, like employment rates, interest rates, cost of living etc

And i guess now freedoms too.

Geez INDO you're dribbling again. The perception that a country is corrupt isn't based on media reporting corruption, it's based on the actual corruption.
And even if you are right, which you aren't, perception is also very damaging. If you perceive a country to be corrupt, would you invest there? If you perceive that government contracts are crooked, would clean businesses apply for them?
Give it up champ. Your mob are a pack of crooks, and that does serious damage to our economy. It pisses away our tax dollars, drives up consumer prices, drives down confidence and wages. Your bent mob are fucking ordinary Australians over every fucking day for their own, and their mate's benefit.

Sorry you are the one dribbling as per normal.

It's called the Corruption PERCEPTION index for a reason, because its impossible to record all corruption.

For example one country can have a number of incidents of corruption covered up which will not affect its corruption perception index because they go unreported and unknown, while another country might have one or two incidents highlighted heavily by media which will negatively affect its corruption perception index

And as ive said many times now LNP have been in power for most of the last twenty years and most of that time we have ranked in the top ten for LEAST corrupt, so your idea that my mob is so corrupt and your mob isn't is just garbage, as we have seen in Victoria Labor are as corrupt as can be.

And Corruption is more complex then you might like to think, and with the event of Covid and draconian measures that also lead to questionable transparency etc

Id also expect its also not just based on federal government but also state, so issues of corruption under Labor state leadership may affect our ranking, even an investigation into things like Victorias quarantine debacle that couldn't find who made a decision might affect our ranking. (corruption/cover ups etc all related)

"While corruption takes vastly different forms from country to country, this year’s scores reveal that all regions of the globe are at a standstill when it comes to fighting public sector corruption.

At the top of the CPI, countries in Western Europe and the European Union continue to wrestle with transparency and accountability in their response to COVID-19, threatening the region’s clean image. In parts of Asia Pacific, the Americas, Eastern Europe and Central Asia, increasing restrictions on accountability measures and basic civil freedoms allow corruption to go unchecked. Even historically high-performing countries are showing signs of decline.

In the Middle East and North Africa, the interests of a powerful few continue to dominate the political and private sphere, and the limitations placed on civil and political freedoms are blocking any significant progress. In Sub-Saharan Africa, armed conflict, violent transitions of power and increasing terrorist threats combined with poor enforcement of anti-corruption commitments rob citizens of their basic rights and services."

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:34pm
zenagain wrote:

You see Indo, perception is everything. For example- on the surface, I perceive Vic to be a potty-mouthed, one-eyed, know-it-all who sees anyone that doesn't subscribe to his narrow world view as a far right leaning fascist, racist, anti-semitic xenophobe incapable of having their own thought.

When in actuality, he probably is.

:D

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zenagain Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:40pm

Btw- I don't disagree. Scomo's time is up. Fuckers for the most part are rotten to the core.

I totally agree with Andy-mac, nothing short of a federal ICAC with the powers of a Royal Comission and real penalties able to be implemented retroactively is sorely overdue in Oz. Somehow though, I don't think Labor are up for either. Too many skeletons in both closets I'm afraid.

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flollo Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:49pm

@indo I fully support your argument here. And I also acknowledge the evidence shared by some that we are experiencing a negative trend in the corruption perception index. That might be enough for some people to demand a change in government. For some, it is not.

However, I haven't seen any compelling evidence shared on these forums to persuade me that future, different government will improve this score? What is that perception based on? I've seen plenty of bitching, sharing twitter memes but I don't form my opinions based on that. Can anyone share evidence to support the hypothesis of 'future labour government will improve corruption perception index'? Happy to be convinced with compelling info.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:50pm

OK ID, you just keep living in your fantasy world where perceptions aren't based on real world situations, and the perception that a country is corrupt doesn't have consequences.
You'll pretty much say anything rather than acknowledge that Australia is a shit load more corrupt after 9 years of the LNP dogs in power.
Angus Taylor gave $80 million of our tax money to his cayman Island water trading mate for no water. But hey, all "Cool and Normal" for you Indo.

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:17pm
Vic Local wrote:

OK ID, you just keep living in your fantasy world where perceptions aren't based on real world situations, and the perception that a country is corrupt doesn't have consequences.
You'll pretty much say anything rather than acknowledge that Australia is a shit load more corrupt after 9 years of the LNP dogs in power.
Angus Taylor gave $80 million of our tax money to his cayman Island water trading mate for no water. But hey, all "Cool and Normal" for you Indo.

Heres a reality check for you, yes it doesn't show the latest rise.

There is really no clear pattern, it rose a tad when Labor got in and then also feel, and has been at very low levels since 2018 when Scomo came in until the last year or so where it has risen again, but still quite low when looking at the bigger picture..

BTW. You can only go back two more years before this with graph data the two years before were 86 & 88

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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:18pm

Farrrrrrrrrrrk me ID, you are desperate mate. Of course it doesn't show the latest rise you absolute moron. because the latest index rating has plummeted.
And you do realise that a low score isn't good.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaa. That's your shittest take ever mate.
Rather than reading ID's bullshit, people can read the scathing report for themselves.

https://transparency.org.au/worst-ever-corruption-score/

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Supafreak Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:22pm

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stunet Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:23pm

At least he's holding a hose.

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GuySmiley Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:26pm

@zen, perception is reality in most instances but let's ponder how people can be offensive.

People can be boringly offensive by being a " .... potty-mouthed, one-eyed, know-it-all who sees anyone that doesn't subscribe to his narrow world view as a far right leaning fascist, racist, anti-semitic xenophobe incapable of having their own thought". Alternatively, people can be equally offensive (IMO) by presenting the most outrageous ideas, that have been disproven beyond debate, that are sourced from highly questionable sources, that fly in the face of history, science or economics or reason, but are always wrapped in the sugar-coated call for "a polite discussion". Having a questioning mind is a good thing but at what stage is enough is enough and its ok to call out the boring infantile online twats? Thoughts?

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:34pm
Vic Local wrote:

Farrrrrrrrrrrk me ID, you are desperate mate. Of course it doesn't show the latest rise you absolute moron. because the latest index rating has plummeted.
And you do realise that a low score isn't good.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaa. That's your shittest take ever mate.
Rather than reading ID's bullshit, people can read the scathing report for themselves.

https://transparency.org.au/worst-ever-corruption-score/

Ha ha whoops reading things the wrong way.

Well good on Howard then he clearly kicked arse.

But if your beloved Labor are so pure then why is the biggest drop during Labor years???

Can you answer that???

I thought they were corruption free???

Then yeah went down more again during recent LNP years, clearly an issue for both Labor and LNP.

But again let's remember we only recently dropped out of the top ten least corrupt countries out of what was it 180 countries/

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Supafreak Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:29pm

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:44pm
Supafreak wrote:

https://twitter.com/psyvret/status/1489391947772874754?s=21

Richard Colbeck went to the cricket for 3 days instead of doing his job....

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:49pm
zenagain wrote:

Btw- I don't disagree. Scomo's time is up. Fuckers for the most part are rotten to the core.

I totally agree with Andy-mac, nothing short of a federal ICAC with the powers of a Royal Comission and real penalties able to be implemented retroactively is sorely overdue in Oz. Somehow though, I don't think Labor are up for either. Too many skeletons in both closets I'm afraid.

Think you are probably correct Zen. But if the momentum got going with ICAC, maybe no political power could stop it taking in a life of its own. Fitzgerald inquiry in Qld nailed quite a few of Joh's cabinet, although Joh himself seemed to dodge it ..
More chance of something happening under Labor than LNP. A think a permanent body set up would be best way forward.... Keep an eye on them all....

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Supafreak Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 3:57pm

@indo , a very good friend of mine has supported the LIberal Party for 40+ years . We have bagged each other’s political preferences for all this time but always remained good friends. He’s voting Labor this year, first time ever . That says a lot to me .

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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 4:04pm

"Ha ha whoops reading things the wrong way."
What a humiliation Indo, and now you're trying to salvage a draw.
the reality is Transparency International, the people who did the ratings, changed their system in 2012 which accounted for most of Labor's deteriorating numbers in their final year.
your shitful corrupt mob have caused our rating to plummet over 9 years. 9 FUCKING YEARS. AND THIS YEAR'S FIGURES ARE THE WORST EVER NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT THEM.
Here's the difference between you and me ID. I clap and cheer when Labor scum like O'beid and McDonald go down for corruption. You on the other hand (Just like Scumo) deny, ignore, play whataboutism, and generally excuse LNP corrupt dogs. Nobody in the LNP is ever held accountable for being crooks. Cover up is their default position. That's why the country is in such a mess.

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 4:25pm

ha ha always some excuse.

I honestly have trouble taking you seriously VL the shit you spin.

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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 4:33pm

What's the excuse you are referring to champ?

AndyM's picture
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AndyM Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 4:46pm

Reckon it's worth looking at Australia's slide again, especially that drop in the last year.

Federal ICAC now.

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gsco Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:10pm

I've been a LNP voter my whole life apart from the last election, where I voted Labor and will do it again.

We're a great nation but I think Australia has tilted a little too far right economically from centre and needs some restoring balance of a solid two terms of Labor government with core Labour values and a focus on tackling some challenging issues Australia is currently facing, as apposed to "leaving it to the private sector".

The LNP and scomo get I believe unfairly criticised for being "absent" or asleep at the wheel, unfairly because as can be inferred from indo-dreaming's comments above and is succinctly explained on their website, their core beliefs are to establish stable economic grounds on which the private sector, with minimal govt interference and distortion, can "do its thing" and solve all problems.

A stable economy is an important prerequisite for living standards and quality of life, but I think the LNP has gone overboard with the private sector worshipping and spread it across too many areas of society in which it just does not work so well and leads to poor outcomes, such as health, education, climate change, aged care, underemployment, inequality and housing affordability, etc. These require strong government involvement and leadership. We even see some shortcomings from this approach in our response to covid.

There is a role for government in society as is clearly evidenced by the Nordic countries: see for instance here and here and here and here and here.

I think Australia is at a choice point historically and needs to decide whether to keep going down the US route of private sector worshipping, inequality and concentration of wealth, further compromising of political institutions by commercial interests, the development of a large underclass of poverty, etc, or instead to be more conscious of the US's glaringly obvious failures and to take more seriously the economic characteristics of the Nordic countries that make them so successful on so many levels.

If I was part of economic policy in the Labor party I'd be very carefully investigating these aspects of the Nordic countries that work so well and cherry picking those which they believe would work in Australia and that the Australian public would accept.

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Cockee Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:07pm

My my all these holier than thou Labor voters screaming about Liberal corruption. It's the type of hysteria usually reserved for climate change and Australia Day. I can almost hear their collective thought process - "if we scream really really loud often enough (20-30 times a day on swellnet alone), we might convince normal people that we actually have an argument worth listening to. Oh yeah, let's use as foul language as we can (worked for Kev Rudd) to ram the message home".

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GuySmiley Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:10pm
AndyM wrote:

Reckon it's worth looking at Australia's slide again, especially that drop in the last year.

Federal ICAC now.

X2 plus real time online (1) donations register and (2) diaries for all ministers and shadow ministers so the public knows who is paying to see who, should introduce honesty to the parliament

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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:10pm

gsco. Well said, but I fear that post was just not in the Swellnet spirit.
How's anyone going to call you names or mock you after such a rational post?

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gsco Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:22pm
Vic Local wrote:

gsco. Well said, but I fear that post was just not in the Swellnet spirit.
How's anyone going to call you names or mock you after such a rational post?

lol

I can fall back on trying to balance the China debate whenever I feel like copping some abuse..

Although our relationship with China is just another ridiculous policy failure of the LNP that will come back to haunt all of Australia if we don’t change tack.

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Supafreak Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:22pm

Is scumo’s hair salon stunt an attempt to get everyone talking about it in order to take the focus off the aged care fiasco ? Doesn’t seem like a smart strategy but nothing lately has been real smart.

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blackers Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 5:42pm

Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 6:18pm
blackers wrote:

Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.

Great comment....

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 7:08pm
gsco wrote:

I've been a LNP voter my whole life apart from the last election, where I voted Labor and will do it again.

We're a great nation but I think Australia has tilted a little too far right economically from centre and needs some restoring balance of a solid two terms of Labor government with core Labour values and a focus on tackling some challenging issues Australia is currently facing, as apposed to "leaving it to the private sector".

The LNP and scomo get I believe unfairly criticised for being "absent" or asleep at the wheel, unfairly because as can be inferred from indo-dreaming's comments above and is succinctly explained on their website, their core beliefs are to establish stable economic grounds on which the private sector, with minimal govt interference and distortion, can "do its thing" and solve all problems.

A stable economy is an important prerequisite for living standards and quality of life, but I think the LNP has gone overboard with the private sector worshipping and spread it across too many areas of society in which it just does not work so well and leads to poor outcomes, such as health, education, climate change, aged care, underemployment, inequality and housing affordability, etc. These require strong government involvement and leadership. We even see some shortcomings from this approach in our response to covid.

There is a role for government in society as is clearly evidenced by the Nordic countries: see for instance here and here and here and here and here.

I think Australia is at a choice point historically and needs to decide whether to keep going down the US route of private sector worshipping, inequality and concentration of wealth, further compromising of political institutions by commercial interests, the development of a large underclass of poverty, etc, or instead to be more conscious of the US's glaringly obvious failures and to take more seriously the economic characteristics of the Nordic countries that make them so successful on so many levels.

If I was part of economic policy in the Labor party I'd be very carefully investigating these aspects of the Nordic countries that work so well and cherry picking those which they believe would work in Australia and that the Australian public would accept.

I dont necessarily agree with all that but i do have to say your post come across as well thought out and make some decent points to at least think about.

Personally i think Australia could learn more from Singapore than Nordic countries though.

BTW. I know your talking about the failures of the USA economically but there is also many social aspects where i think we should have some big concerns about following USA too.

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Vic Local Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 9:49pm

And now we see Barnaby sends text messages calling Scumo a liar.
It's a full on shit show folks.
Does anyone think these muppets would actually turn their corrupt, incompetent, fiasco around if they were re-elected?

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zenagain Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:07pm

Nope.

That's why they need to go.

Federal ICAC est. 2022.

Hashtag it.

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Supafreak Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:41pm
seeds's picture
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seeds Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 12:18am
blackers wrote:

Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.

It sure is corrupt when it’s public money!
But it’s not too much to worry about according to Indo because it’s only a little bit corrupt according to some perception thingy majig. Indo the Liberal dill (see shill)

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 7:44am
seeds wrote:
blackers wrote:

Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.

It sure is corrupt when it’s public money!
But it’s not too much to worry about according to Indo because it’s only a little bit corrupt according to some perception thingy majig. Indo the Liberal dill (see shill)

Actually i never said such things i said

indo-dreaming wrote:

Over the last 20 years we have been in the top ten most of this time has been under LNP lead governments, sure we have recently slipped out of the top ten so its fair to say an eye needs to be kept on things and maybe some areas need to receive some attention, but the fact still remains we are one of the least corrupt countries on earth both at a government and society level.,

And i also clearly said my focus and what i seek from a government is economical opportunity, a health economy, low unemployment, low interest rates and thats what we have had since 96 since LNP have been in power the majority of the time, opposed to the absolute mess under Labor when Interest rates pushed over 17% and unemployment rates nationally at 11%, it doesnt matter if you are completely corruption free, when you have conditions like that life sucks for pretty much everyone, thankfully we had Howard to turn things around and he become one of the most successful prime ministers in our history and became a second longest running PM that lead to 25+ years without a recession, almost unheard of.

And BTW I doubt the corruption perception index is just decided on what the federal government does you would expect its also influenced by how state government's conduct themselves and i highly doubt things like branch stacking help or enquiries into major decisions about quarantine where everyone suddenly forgets who made major decisions or the other dodgy shit around Gladys.

And BTW incase you missed it or just choose to completely overlook it, you can clearly see where corruption perception increased so you might want to drop the Labor's shit dont stink attitude, im sorry but facts dont care for your feelings

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Vic Local Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 8:16am

Oh FFS ID, you're not choosing this hill to die on again.
Last time you put up that chart you absolutely humiliated yourself and you're doing it again. "oops I read it upside down"
Haaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
You've been told before that the drop in the last year of Labor was due to Transparency International changing their methodology. They acknowledge that in their recent report.
And of course your chart is an old one too, missing the disastrous last year of the LNP where the corruption index deteriorated massively.
Give it up champ, nobody is buying your BS.

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GuySmiley Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 8:39am

Info narrowly cherry picking those 17% and 11% figures above is either aimed to deliberately deceive the reader or shows an understanding of Australian political and economic history most aptly described in this instance as infantile and moronic.

When Hawke/Keating floated the AUD (universally seen as a good thing at the time and since) the banks agreed to peg all existing mortgages to 13.5%. The 17% peak in rates info refers to only applied to new mortgages and that peak lasted a very short period. 12 mths??.

It is also worth noting that at the time term deposits were paying over 10% for savers and my super fund was returning over 20% pa.

Again unemployment did hit 11% and it was very hard on an individual and family level but that reset of the economy set up the Howard years and beyond .... these days govts just borrow their way out of (political) trouble; what is Australia’s debt right now? Just under or over a trillion AUD?

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 8:38am

Your an A grade tosser VL and full of shit day after day after day especially in that Covid thread.

But i dont know if i agree with this though

Roadkill wrote:

He is a bully...and would have been all through school, into work, and would be the biggest mouthy ahole in the lineup. Tolerated but not liked. 100% a mummy's boy...and shitty behaviour would have been excused by mummy, which is why he is the person he is now.

I think you are more likely to be exactly like Tanuki or 90% of Anifa clowns, you were that loser kid at school that got bullied and now you are taking it out on the world even possibly just the online world.

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Cockee Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 8:41am

A corruption index FFS? What basis is used for such a subjective concept? It's like saying Kelly's wave was better than Joao's. Anyone paying any heed to such a flimsy concept is kidding themselves yet our Labor faithful blindly grab at it like it's been delivered by Chairman Dan himself.

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batfink Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 9:03am
andy-mac wrote:

pFitzgerald inquiry in Qld nailed quite a few of Joh's cabinet, although Joh himself seemed to dodge it ..
More chance of something happening under Labor than LNP. A think a permanent body set up would be best way forward.... Keep an eye on them all....

Re ‘Joh seeming to dodge it’. Yeah, he did, by the skin of his teeth. IIRC, two court cases, jury couldn’t decide in the first one, the second one also was abandoned after jury couldn’t come to a unanimous decision. Reports afterwards was a committed 10 (or 11) to one decision for Joh’s conviction, held up by a holdout who used to be the president of the young Liberals.

That’s our justice system, in action. Plenty of others who didn’t end up with the former president of the young Liberals on their jury were sent away.

We certainly need a proper ICAC, and we will almost certainly get one after the election. I can’t see the LNP getting back on their own numbers, they only have a one seat majority now and you’d have to think they will lose a few. So the most likely outcome is a hung parliament full of Bolshevik independents who are all campaigning on have a strong ICAC, or a solid Labor victory, in which case I’m with zen. Not sure how committed they will be to a real ICAC, given how many skeletons they have in their cupboard.

On the other hand, given that they haven’t been in government for 9 years, there aren’t too many inquiries that could go back that far, and Tony Abbott cleared out the low hanging culture war crap with his pink batts royal commission and then the trade union royal commission.

The big issue is about donations and transparency. If that ain’t cleaned up then we are still being led by corporates, and that ends poorly for everyone but the big corporates.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 9:25am
indo-dreaming wrote:

Your an A grade tosser VL and full of shit day after day after day especially in that Covid thread.

But i dont know if i agree with this though

Roadkill wrote:

He is a bully...and would have been all through school, into work, and would be the biggest mouthy ahole in the lineup. Tolerated but not liked. 100% a mummy's boy...and shitty behaviour would have been excused by mummy, which is why he is the person he is now.

I think you are more likely to be exactly like Tanuki or 90% of Anifa clowns, you were that loser kid at school that got bullied and now you are taking it out on the world even possibly just the online world.

Oh dear Indo, it hasn't been a very good start for you today, rehashing your embarrassing corruption theories. Your argument is so weak, you've given up and brought out the Antifa card. What a humiliation.
The LNP is the most corrupt federal government we've ever had, and you're banging on about Antifa, rather than mounting a defence for your crooked mates. That's almost as desperate as Scumo washing a women's hair.
It's all gone horribly pear-shaped in the last week Indo. Pretty much everyone knows the LNP is corrupt as all fuck. Scumo is a liar, a complete psycho, a horrible horrible person, and a hypocrite.
But you're holding out. Good for you champ.

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seeds Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 10:22am

Barnaby offers his resignation. The “complete psycho” declines it. We can’t have any of that leading up to an election. Scotty is done now the public can see that a lot of his colleagues feel the same way as them

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sypkan Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 10:37am

"Scotty is done now the public can see that a lot of his colleagues feel the same way as them"

yep

it's hard to believe there won't an attempt to replace him

but the gurus are saying no

Id say nothing is a certain in modern politics...

but... yet another leader replaced, may be a step into the revolving doors of desperation too far...

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Robwilliams Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 10:48am

they've showed their cards. Hard to hide when you show signs of psychopathy and narcism to the public eye. What a waste.

blackers's picture
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blackers Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 10:43am
sypkan wrote:

"Scotty is done now the public can see that a lot of his colleagues feel the same way as them"

yep

it's hard to believe there won't an attempt to replace him

but the gurus are saying no

Id say nothing is a certain in modern politics...

but... yet another leader replaced, may be a step into the revolving doors of desperation too far...

100% in agreement Sypkan. Just goes to show there is always a first for everything. :).

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Robwilliams Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 10:50am
blackers's picture
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blackers Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 11:05am

Regarding John Howard’s legacy, here is one from the archives.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australias-most-wasteful-spendin...
And the IMF paper for those inclined (some lovely graphs).
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2013/wp1305.pdf

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sypkan Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 11:15am

I hope they do replace him, otherwise it's going to be a bit of a no contest election, Im sick to the stomach tired of elections where the left candidate just hides (themselves and their agenda) whilst playing the pure personality politics of 'you can't possibly vote for that guy'... here and elswhere...

call me a romanticist, but I actually like a bit of substance. it'll suck if labor gets in on the current... cough cough... 'vision' ...they've been forward enough to not share with the public...

the replacement is tough though

they'll wheel out the old unpalatable potatoe suspects I guess...

I actually think if they wheeled out josh frydenberg they'd still have a great chance of winning

he's the mildest sychopath in the liberal party, quite moderate and even likeable, for a liberal...

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 11:12am

"yep

it's hard to believe there won't an attempt to replace him

but the gurus are saying no"

Here's my take on the situation sypkan.
Scotty is a dead man walking. His party hate him, and his women problem isn't getting any better no matter how many cynical photo ops that idiot does.
I'd actually be surprised if anyone challenges Scumo because nobody wants the poison chalice of leadership of that shit show just before an election. Virtually ever single minister is corrupt and/or incompetent so in the spotlight is not a great place to be for them. Also who wants to lead a party to what will most likely be an electoral annihilation?
I suspect Scotty the Psycho will either take the beating himself at the polls or abdicate. If it's option 2, the LNP will then scramble to find the least offensive short term "leader" to try and save the furniture on election day. We are talking about a very drab nobody preferably a women.
My personal preference is for Scumo to remain leader and call an early election. The LNP can get the thrashing they deserve and the country can move on with an ICAC and competent people in charge.

stunet's picture
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stunet Saturday, 5 Feb 2022 at 11:21am

"I sick to the stomach tired of elections where the left candidate just hides (themselves and their agenda)"

Think you're a bit mixed up, Sypkan.

Latham said he'd withdraw troops from Iraq (and was roundly criticised, but of course it was the right decision).
Rudd laid out a policy of fiscal restraint (had to switch to stimulus following the GFC but his policies were there for all to see)
Shorten had the most bold policy for wealth distribution since Hawke.

It's Abbott who broke with tradition and offered nothing going into the 2013 election. No govt before or since has been so silent on policy.