2022 Election

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blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

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A Salty Dog's picture
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A Salty Dog Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 12:34pm

Indo,

If Common Sense was that common, the LNP would never be voted into power.

Cheers.

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dandandan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 1:00pm

Probably a lot to do with Australia being a colony of people with basically zero class consciousness or political solidarity between ordinary people. Australian society has been successfully brainwashed into competing against and blaming each other rather than the structural systems that benefit from our suffering. Australia needs serious reform - especially regarding land, political donations, and taxation. The LNP will never do it, because the gross inequality of this country works in their favor.

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 1:33pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Thank fuck Shorten lost the unloosable election for Labor, him and his policies sucked arse, he would probably have us in lockdown until 2025 the guy was a A grade fuckwitt.

It will suck if Labor get voted in, but Albo seems more moderate and Labor have toned things down to become liberal lite anyway and even if they get in one or two terms max and they will be gone.

There is a good reason why labor have only been in power 23 of the last 70 years or so and only about 6 of almost the last 25 years.

Thank god for democracy and common sense.

The good reason is the moronic quiet Australians who vote against their own best interests as they are brainwashed by the insipid Murdoch and 9 media machine. If Shorten is a fuckwit, what does that make Morrison who fucks off on holiday whilst country is on fire?
Gladys even writes the prick off and she is meant to be on his side....
Labor for all its faults at least does things for Australia, such as Medicare and NDIS. Name one program the LNP have ever implemented to help Australians??? None, unless you include GST.
They just transfer the Commonwealth of Australia into the hands of foreign owned businesses and their supporters.
Please, name one program or something the LNP have ever done for Australia???

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soggydog Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 1:38pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Thank fuck Shorten lost the unloosable election for Labor, him and his policies sucked arse, he would probably have us in lockdown until 2025 the guy was a A grade fuckwitt.

That is complete Bullshit Indo.

Edit:Thanks Andy, Indo will have a tough time bullshitting his way out of that one.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 1:41pm

"It never ceases to amaze how cheaply politicians, and therefore policy and political protection, can be bought.
Released today, the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) data for the 2020-21 financial year reveals that $166 million was paid to political parties, with the Liberal Party ranking in $15.4 million more than Labor."

Also -

"The world’s largest financial firms, “The Big 4” – PwC, EY, KPMG and Deloitte” picked up $1.74bn in government work over the past 18 months, a fabulous return on their $670,570 “investment”.

Why would anyone continue to vote for such corruption?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/quid-pro-quo-donations-data-shows-billion...

sypkan's picture
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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 1:59pm

"Please, name one program or something the LNP have ever done for Australia???"

the soveriegn wealth fund

the soveriegn wealth fund, that labor blew in a matter of months....

the soveriegn wealth fund, that the lnp had no choice but to create, as they were awash with cash, and they couldn't possibly give anymore money away...

if they did the structural problems and middle class welfare problems now would be off the charts and the country would be even nore fucked...

the soveriegn wealth fund, that the lnp belatedly, begrudingly, and kinda shithousely created... as it wasn't protected enough.... wasn't early enough... wasn't big enough... not sustainable enough...

but it was a nice try

(for a government that wasn't really trying)

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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 1:56pm

better and more realistic in concept than ndis...

don't get me started on ndis!

(i'd leave that one out of your list of achievements if I was you...)

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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:05pm
soggydog wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Thank fuck Shorten lost the unloosable election for Labor, him and his policies sucked arse, he would probably have us in lockdown until 2025 the guy was a A grade fuckwitt.

That is complete Bullshit Indo.

Edit:Thanks Andy, Indo will have a tough time bullshitting his way out of that one.

not complete bullshit...

labor and lockdowns isn't a very good record...

and they are still plugging away hard with the virus and some over reactive measures... whilst the true nature of the virus is slowly revealing that the left of politics the world over has very likey totally overreacted...

totally!

and shorten is an A grade fuckwit...

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flollo Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:12pm

@spykan Shorten and co lost me on their franking credit policy in the last election. They were labeling it as 'progressive' which frankly insulted me. Even Albo abandoned it for this election. I will never agree with anyone who proposes double taxation, whatever the party they belong to.

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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:43pm

I actually think the franking credit policy was smart policy

the way they intended to introduce it was all kinds of dumb and unfair though...

not to mention the berating of retirees and average joes as 'the big end of town'

...all kinds of dumb!

...so so fucking dumb!!

...unbelievably out of touch with reality dumb!!!

and unfair!

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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:41pm

it is actually hard to believe how wrong labor got the last election

yes some have good points above, and there was some good policy...

but labor just totally fucked it up!!

it is this impression of gross incompetence and out of touch-ness that keeps undermining them, whether one believes it is justified or not...

perceptions are everything

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I focus Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:44pm
sypkan wrote:

"Please, name one program or something the LNP have ever done for Australia???"

the soveriegn wealth fund

the soveriegn wealth fund, that labor blew in a matter of months....

the soveriegn wealth fund, that the lnp had no choice but to create, as they were awash with cash, and they couldn't possibly give anymore money away...

if they did the structural problems and middle class welfare problems now would be off the charts and the country would be even nore fucked...

the soveriegn wealth fund, that the lnp belatedly, begrudingly, and kinda shithousely created... as it wasn't protected enough.... wasn't early enough... wasn't big enough... not sustainable enough...

but it was a nice try

(for a government that wasn't really trying)

"The Future Fund is an independently managed sovereign wealth fund established in 2006 to strengthen the Australian Government's long-term financial position by making provision for unfunded superannuation liabilities for politicians and other public servants that will become payable during a period when an ageing population is likely to place significant pressure on the Commonwealth's finances. In 2021 the fund had US$ 143.7 billion in assets under management.[1]"

Looks after politicians and public servant super funds conditions and returns which are unavailable to the rest of Australia!

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:44pm
sypkan wrote:

"Please, name one program or something the LNP have ever done for Australia???"

the soveriegn wealth fund

the soveriegn wealth fund, that labor blew in a matter of months....

the soveriegn wealth fund, that the lnp had no choice but to create, as they were awash with cash, and they couldn't possibly give anymore money away...

if they did the structural problems and middle class welfare problems now would be off the charts and the country would be even nore fucked...

the soveriegn wealth fund, that the lnp belatedly, begrudingly, and kinda shithousely created... as it wasn't protected enough.... wasn't early enough... wasn't big enough... not sustainable enough...

but it was a nice try

(for a government that wasn't really trying)

Good idea in theory if set up in a Scandinavian style model. They set up pension for pollies that is heavily invested in coal and other gods fuels run by Peter Costello.
That may be a simplistic response yes, but if we properly taxed our resources, we could have a find similar to what Norway has.
Geez that could support things such as free higher education, health care and give aged care workers a $5 an hour pay increase. ;)

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andy-mac Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:46pm
sypkan wrote:

better and more realistic in concept than ndis...

don't get me started on ndis!

(i'd leave that one out of your list of achievements if I was you...)

I personally know a couple of people with disabilities who have benefitted greatly from NDIS. Truly life changing for the better.

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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 2:58pm

"I personally know a couple of people with disabilities who have benefitted greatly from NDIS. Truly life changing for the better."

me too

in terms of life changing... for the better

I also personally know a heap of families who loathe the new system, and find it unnecessarily stressful...

I personally have benefitted immensely through the new system by way of employment

that doesn't remotely make it overall good, sustainable, or the smart economic stimulus it was spuriously marketed as...

andy-mac's picture
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andy-mac Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 3:10pm
sypkan wrote:

"I personally know a couple of people with disabilities who have benefitted greatly from NDIS. Truly life changing for the better."

me too

in terms of life changing... for the better

I also personally know a heap of families who loathe the new system, and find it unnecessarily stressful...

I personally have benefitted immensely through the new system by way of employment

that doesn't remotely make it overall good, sustainable, or the smart economic stimulus it was spuriously marketed as...

Ok.
But is that because the original idea/ scheme was underfunded and under resourced by LNP, or is the original idea flawed?
Serious question.
I don't know, but had a couple of colleagues who by my understanding would not be in full time employment without the assistance.

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sypkan Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 3:45pm

it is a great system in principle, in terms of autonomy, empowering, independence... and all the other nauseating industry jargon / gobblygook / marketing speak...

but it is incredibly complex, with layers and layers of experts and consultants that clients and families must negotiate before they can even gain any assistance...

many families like the old system, where the services available are much clearer and easier to navigate. unfortunately - like anything in the modern world - one just about needs a degree to navigate the services. and those that are smart / educated / manipulative etc. can get massive gains, gaming the system if i may be so crass... whilst those not so savvy, get left short...

on the whole, it is a good system, that generally improves on the old one...

you'd bloody well hope so!

...as it is an absolute rolls royce system, with an absolute rolls royce price tag... spuriously marketed as being 'economically stimulating'

...you could argue that if you wanted to, ...i guess.... if you totally ignored all the additional costs the system incurrs....

interestingly, labor's guru economist at the time advising all this, was doing it on the figures of the well underway mining boom in the background, and did actually mention if economic conditions were to change it would be quite burdensome... well, conditions changed... implementation did not!

labor's little contribution to the mining boom inspired, unsustainable, middle class welfare, economic stuctural problems of the howard / costello era?

depends on your perspective I guess...

sorry, but you did ask

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andy-mac Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 3:45pm
sypkan wrote:

it is a great system in principle, in terms of autonomy, empowering, independence, and all the other nauseating industry gobblygook / marketing speak...

but it is incredibly complex, with layers and layers of experts and consultants that clients and families must negotiate before they can even gain any assistance...

many families like the old system, where the services are much clearer and easier to navigate. unfortunately - like anything in the modern world - one just about needs a degree to navigate the services. and the smart / educated / manipulative can get massive gains, whilst those not so savvy get left short...

on the whole, it is a good system, that generally improves on the old one... you'd bloody well hope so! ...as it is an absolute rolls royce syste, with an absolute rolls royce price tag... spuriously marketed as being 'economic stimulating' ...you could argue that if you wanted to i guess.... if you totally ignored all the additional costs the system incurrs....

interestingly, labor's guru economist at the time advising all this, was doing it on the figures of the well underway mining boom in the background, and did actually mention if economic conditions were to change it would be quite burdensome... well, conditions changed... implementation did not!

labor's contribution to the mining boom inspired, unsustainable, middle class welfare, economic stuctural problems of the howard / costello era?

depends on your perspective I guess...

sorry, but you did ask

No need for sorry, I appreciate the time you took with your reply.
I was really only aware and referring to how it can help individuals with autonomy etc.
Guessing the bureaucracy gets in the way of a good system..
Cheers.

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AndyM Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 3:51pm
dandandan wrote:

Probably a lot to do with Australia being a colony of people with basically zero class consciousness or political solidarity between ordinary people. Australian society has been successfully brainwashed into competing against and blaming each other rather than the structural systems that benefit from our suffering. Australia needs serious reform - especially regarding land, political donations, and taxation. The LNP will never do it, because the gross inequality of this country works in their favor.

Good post Dan.

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flollo Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 4:14pm

This NDIS discussion highlights the main issue on all sides of politics, especially on the federal level. Most participants are high-level lawyers, accountants from different backgrounds, some come via union channels, others via consulting, finance etc...

However, hardly anyone comes from operations. People who are currently there are familiar with structuring budgets, allocating them (there are always winners and losers), and navigating the legal landscape. But they are not used to building programs of works, breaking them into projects, and developing operations to sustain continual improvements. To meet their election cycles they come up with totally unrealistic timelines which they try to compensate by 'flooding it with resources'. NDIS sounds like another one of those, great in principle but poor in execution and sticking to the budget.

As my personal career progressed I started working on really large infrastructure programs and they are really, really difficult to mobilise and demobilise. Over the years I developed a great appreciation for anyone who is really good at developing programs successfully, anticipates resources correctly, and manages to pull them off on a budget. There are not enough of these people and to be honest, the ones that are truly good are making the same or more than our MPs.

To conclude, I would love to see fewer accountants and lawyers and more ops people on all sides of politics. I think it would improve the situation a fair bit and there would be the better perception of what can and cannot be achieved within a given timeframe.

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velocityjohnno Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 4:41pm

"interestingly, labor's guru economist at the time advising all this, was doing it on the figures of the well underway mining boom in the background, and did actually mention if economic conditions were to change it would be quite burdensome... well, conditions changed... implementation did not!"

interesting take Sypkan. Same thing happened with the Button Plan, they forgot to properly review it after about 10 years, so the plan kept churning it's protection lower, lower; in a beautiful correlation with the number of domestic manufacturers. From 8+ to 0, the plan became an industry elimination plan. It is wise to note all car manufacturing countries employ some form of 'encouragement' whether that be tariffs, currency manipulation, state-owned enterprises, free land, favourable tax or labour agreements, 'green' support, etc. Now we are the only OECD Top 20 economy without a car industry. But what a plan it was! Made our cars world class.

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 7:33pm
andy-mac wrote:

Please, name one program or something the LNP have ever done for Australia???

The most important thing to most Australians is employment and interest rates, since March 96 when LNP(Howard) was voted in after Labor's/Keatings recession we had to have where interest rates hit almost 18% unemployment went above 11%.

Things have been pretty good unemployment rates and interest rates quickly fell during Howards reign, hence why he became one of our most successfully prime ministers ever and the second longest prime minster in Australian history at almost 12 years in power.

20 of the last 26 years have been under LNP this run has been the longest run without a recession, and even the recession caused by Covid that was predicated to be more like a depression barely hit the radar, real estate markets sure dont boom in recessions.

This whole period post Keating to now will be looked back on as a golden period in our history and most countries never achieve such runs.

You guys can whinge all you like, because well that what you love to do but even during Covid compared to most of the world we have done extremely well from an economical and health perspective even achieving one of the world highest vax rates.

The problem is our perspective on the role of government is completely different the centre and the right generally look at the role of governments to provide conditions for opportunity and some basic services and ideally keep out of their life's as much as possible.

While the left especially the far left just want everything handed to then on a plate and golden unicorns with six genders or something god knows, i dont think they even know anymore.

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Supafreak Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 7:38pm

I don’t think he’s going to get to many votes if he doesn’t do something quickly about this , another inquiry is going to do sweet FA

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adam12 Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 7:52pm

Planet Indo
"The problem is our perspective on the role of government is completely different the centre and the right generally look at the role of governments to provide conditions for opportunity and some basic services and ideally keep out of their life's as much as possible.

While the left especially the far left just want everything handed to then on a plate and golden unicorns with six genders or something god knows, i dont think they even know anymore."
Gina Reinhart
Rupert Murdoch/Fox
The Pratts
The Lews
Gerry Harvey
Santos
Rio Tinto
Angus Taylors Family
LNP voting Franking Credit beneficiaries......
and on and on and on
the endless list of people on the right receiving unicorn handouts of taxpayer money in the billions, while they fuck over everyone else
Either wake the fuck up or shut the fuck up Indo. Dumb fuck.

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 8:35pm
adam12 wrote:

Planet Indo
"The problem is our perspective on the role of government is completely different the centre and the right generally look at the role of governments to provide conditions for opportunity and some basic services and ideally keep out of their life's as much as possible.

While the left especially the far left just want everything handed to then on a plate and golden unicorns with six genders or something god knows, i dont think they even know anymore."
Gina Reinhart
Rupert Murdoch/Fox
The Pratts
The Lews
Gerry Harvey
Santos
Rio Tinto
Angus Taylors Family
LNP voting Franking Credit beneficiaries......
and on and on and on
the endless list of people on the right receiving unicorn handouts of taxpayer money in the billions, while they fuck over everyone else
Either wake the fuck up or shut the fuck up Indo. Dumb fuck.

Maybe you are too stupid to understand this but any money they receive in various ways to encourage investment or subsidies comes back ten times to the government and economy in all kinds of ways and benefits all of us, the reality is we are much much better off with these companies than without them, when they have success we are more likely to all have success, if they all have dark days we are very likely to have even darker days.

And you sure wont be getting you golden unicorn with 6 genders without them.

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blackers Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 8:50pm

"Maybe you are too stupid to understand this but any money they receive in various ways to encourage investment or subsidies comes back ten times to the government and economy in all kinds of ways and benefits all of us, the reality is we are much much better off with these companies than without them, when they have success we are more likely to all have success, if they all have dark days we are very likely to have even darker days."

Sorry Indo, they are leeches that cost us "everyday taxpayers" far more in the short and long term than any number of the "welfare cheats" the LNP constantly go on about. Grifters sucking on corporate welfare, while people live in poverty.

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soggydog Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 9:03pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
adam12 wrote:

Planet Indo
"The problem is our perspective on the role of government is completely different the centre and the right generally look at the role of governments to provide conditions for opportunity and some basic services and ideally keep out of their life's as much as possible.

While the left especially the far left just want everything handed to then on a plate and golden unicorns with six genders or something god knows, i dont think they even know anymore."
Gina Reinhart
Rupert Murdoch/Fox
The Pratts
The Lews
Gerry Harvey
Santos
Rio Tinto
Angus Taylors Family
LNP voting Franking Credit beneficiaries......
and on and on and on
the endless list of people on the right receiving unicorn handouts of taxpayer money in the billions, while they fuck over everyone else
Either wake the fuck up or shut the fuck up Indo. Dumb fuck.

Maybe you are too stupid to understand this but any money they receive in various ways to encourage investment or subsidies comes back ten times to the government and economy in all kinds of ways and benefits all of us, the reality is we are much much better off with these companies than without them, when they have success we are more likely to all have success, if they all have dark days we are very likely to have even darker days.

And you sure wont be getting you golden unicorn with 6 genders without them.

Explain how Gerry Harvey receiving job keeper while recording record profits during Covid helped Australian taxpayers.

It’s a simple one.

It seems you may have forgotten the GFC too, I think it was Rudd who navigated that one.

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gsco Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 9:12pm

Australia has achieved good and stable economic outcomes in terms of GDP growth, inflation, unemployment, interest rates, etc.

But there are other possibly more important measures of economic and social outcomes in terms of welfare, living standards or quality of life.

GDP per capita is a very important measure. Australia has done well here and we also rank high globally:

There's two main areas of economic concern:

Debt levels, both private and government (relative to GDP), are historically very high: private debt due to low interest rates and government debt due to budget deficits:


Inequality is slowly increasing: see here and here and here and here. The conclusions of these reports is that income inequality has been relatively stable over time but wealth inequality has been increasing.

Measures of economic activity may contribute to living standards, wealth and quality of life outcomes but they don't tell the whole story: see here and here and here. Some more general measures include the Social Progress Index and the Human Development Index and the OECD Better Life Index and the World Happiness Report, etc. Australia ranks pretty well here but is in general surpassed by the Scandinavian/Nordic countries and at times some other developed European and Commonwealth nations.

Overall it seems that Australia is not a bad place.

But of course the above don't necessarily capture individual/unique social problems Australia may be facing like aged care, health, tertiary education, indigenous Australians, etc.

I also question Australia's trajectory in many areas. We seem to be following the US down certain paths where we're like 20 years behind them but where we can see the very negative outcomes of those paths playing out right before our eyes in the US today.

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soggydog Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 9:13pm

ID explain how paying $30 million for a $3million piece of land from party donors benefited taxpayers?

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flollo Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 10:01pm

@gsco very nice! My position is that this is a great, balanced country. There are areas of concern that need to improve however on average, we live a pretty good life.

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seeds Thursday, 3 Feb 2022 at 10:28pm

Indo Dreaming why do you never never ever ever address the LNP corruption that is constantly raised by numerous posters over and over again. You address everything but the blatant corruption. You never even try to explain it away. You just won’t go there.

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 6:55am
indo-dreaming wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

Please, name one program or something the LNP have ever done for Australia???

The most important thing to most Australians is employment and interest rates, since March 96 when LNP(Howard) was voted in after Labor's/Keatings recession we had to have where interest rates hit almost 18% unemployment went above 11%.

Things have been pretty good unemployment rates and interest rates quickly fell during Howards reign, hence why he became one of our most successfully prime ministers ever and the second longest prime minster in Australian history at almost 12 years in power.

20 of the last 26 years have been under LNP this run has been the longest run without a recession, and even the recession caused by Covid that was predicated to be more like a depression barely hit the radar, real estate markets sure dont boom in recessions.

This whole period post Keating to now will be looked back on as a golden period in our history and most countries never achieve such runs.

You guys can whinge all you like, because well that what you love to do but even during Covid compared to most of the world we have done extremely well from an economical and health perspective even achieving one of the world highest vax rates.

The problem is our perspective on the role of government is completely different the centre and the right generally look at the role of governments to provide conditions for opportunity and some basic services and ideally keep out of their life's as much as possible.

While the left especially the far left just want everything handed to then on a plate and golden unicorns with six genders or something god knows, i dont think they even know anymore.

Ah that ol doozy of LNP propaganda....
Howard snuck in after Hawke and Keating did all the major reforms, whether you agree with these reforms or not is beside the point. He then rode the biggest mining economic boom in our history, only 2 countries in the world were not experiencing economic growth at this time, East Timor and another African country whose name escapes me ATM. The major employment reform he implemented was changing the hours worked to be employed to 1 hour a week... No wonder the employment figure improved. Underemployment never mentioned but big issue.
Could even be argued that the Howard golden period you refer to also came about due to the cohort of University educated people in prime working age that had the opportunity of free education due to Whitlam reforms in that sector.
The LNP generally do nothing but ride the good times and then when things start to go down hill Labor get voted in to fix the mess. Would Australia have handled Covid as well as it did without Medicare? A program the LNP still wish to get rid of. Rudd Swan avoided Australia going into recession in GFC, LNP govt would have stood back and done nothing and the outcome would have been very different.
As standard LNP playbook you bring up gender and far left handout straw man arguments.
If you look at Australia's standing economically historically compared to OECD, we are always performing better under a Labor govt, funnily enough the media don't mention this.....

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 7:07am

In regards to the many examples of corruption.
Hopefully Labor if they win, big if, implement a proper ICAC and some of these LNP face a judge with serious consequences issue such as jail if laws have been broken. Only way to fix the blatant corruption that is occurring. If some ALP or any other Party members get caught out, then that can be a good thing.
As gsco pointed out, we are heading towards a system such as the USA with major disparity in wealth and opportunity, and another term of LNP govt will only quicken this process.
For the record, I love Australia and know I won lottery of life being born here and to have had the opportunities I have had. I only wish I had the confidence my daughter will get a chance to grow up in an fair and egalitarian society I experienced growing up.

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 8:06am

And yeah, Howard/ Costello sold (privatised) everything that wasn't bolted down that was owned by Australians. The genius Costello sold our Gold at record low prices! That's up there with keeping our emergency fuel reserves in the USA, Good work Angus!!
The worst aspects of Howard were not his economic issues but social, he encouraged racism via Hanson, illegal refugees ( not illegal), created division, got us involved in expensive wars where we had no business, cut University funding especially in Arts and Asian studies Depts, ( I lived through this one, he gutted it).
The only thing Howard deserves to mention in his memoirs is his stance on guns, and getting voted out in his own electorate.

Friday morning rant over.....

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soggydog Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 9:31am
andy-mac wrote:

In regards to the many examples of corruption.
Hopefully Labor if they win, big if, implement a proper ICAC and some of these LNP face a judge with serious consequences issue such as jail if laws have been broken. Only way to fix the blatant corruption that is occurring. If some ALP or any other Party members get caught out, then that can be a good thing.
As gsco pointed out, we are heading towards a system such as the USA with major disparity in wealth and opportunity, and another term of LNP govt will only quicken this process.
For the record, I love Australia and know I won lottery of life being born here and to have had the opportunities I have had. I only wish I had the confidence my daughter will get a chance to grow up in an fair and egalitarian society I experienced growing up.

We’ll said. Good rant.

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adam12 Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 9:59am

Indo said "Maybe you are too stupid to understand this but any money they receive in various ways to encourage investment or subsidies comes back ten times to the government and economy in all kinds of ways and benefits all of us, the reality is we are much much better off with these companies than without them, when they have success we are more likely to all have success, if they all have dark days we are very likely to have even darker days."
There you have it, the great lie of neoliberalism , give taxpayer money to the top and watch it trickle down to the proles. Complete bullshit.
So if Clive Palmer or Gerry Harvey do well out of free taxpayer money, we all benefit.
You call me stupid Indo?

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:13am
seeds wrote:

Indo Dreaming why do you never never ever ever address the LNP corruption that is constantly raised by numerous posters over and over again. You address everything but the blatant corruption. You never even try to explain it away. You just won’t go there.

As of right now Australia ranks number 11 out of 180 countries for being the LEAST corrupt in the world.

Over the last 20 years we have been in the top ten most of this time has been under LNP lead governments, sure we have recently slipped out of the top ten so its fair to say an eye needs to be kept on things and maybe some areas need to receive some attention, but the fact still remains we are one of the least corrupt countries on earth both at a government and society level.

And despite what all the Labor shills would like you to believe Labor are just as corrupt as LNP its just historically Labor rarely get in power, but we definitely see corruption in Labor state governments .

Personally i don't really seen much point in me joining the chorus of serial whingers here on an issue we rank global so good in, Labor shills like Andy and VL etc love the issue because they really dont have much else to go with, because again the most important things for most people is employment and the economy and for almost 30 years we have been killing it so its hard to criticise these areas,

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:20am
andy-mac wrote:

And yeah, Howard/ Costello sold (privatised) everything that wasn't bolted down that was owned by Australians. The genius Costello sold our Gold at record low prices! That's up there with keeping our emergency fuel reserves in the USA, Good work Angus!!
The worst aspects of Howard were not his economic issues but social, he encouraged racism via Hanson, illegal refugees ( not illegal), created division, got us involved in expensive wars where we had no business, cut University funding especially in Arts and Asian studies Depts, ( I lived through this one, he gutted it).
The only thing Howard deserves to mention in his memoirs is his stance on guns, and getting voted out in his own electorate.

Friday morning rant over.....

You are the biggest Labor shill ever, it's honestly pointless discussing things with you because you just have such a twisted grasp of reality, the election results speak for them selves people kept voting in Howard because of his success in providing them more opportunities in life like basic things like employment.

BTW it was Keating (one of the worst governments ever) that introduced mandatory detention for illegal arrivals.

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:30am
gsco wrote:

Australia has achieved good and stable economic outcomes in terms of GDP growth, inflation, unemployment, interest rates, etc.

But there are other possibly more important measures of economic and social outcomes in terms of welfare, living standards or quality of life.

GDP per capita is a very important measure. Australia has done well here and we also rank high globally:

There's two main areas of economic concern:

Debt levels, both private and government (relative to GDP), are historically very high: private debt due to low interest rates and government debt due to budget deficits:


Inequality is slowly increasing: see here and here and here and here. The conclusions of these reports is that income inequality has been relatively stable over time but wealth inequality has been increasing.

Measures of economic activity may contribute to living standards, wealth and quality of life outcomes but they don't tell the whole story: see here and here and here. Some more general measures include the Social Progress Index and the Human Development Index and the OECD Better Life Index and the World Happiness Report, etc. Australia ranks pretty well here but is in general surpassed by the Scandinavian/Nordic countries and at times some other developed European and Commonwealth nations.

Overall it seems that Australia is not a bad place.

But of course the above don't necessarily capture individual/unique social problems Australia may be facing like aged care, health, tertiary education, indigenous Australians, etc.

I also question Australia's trajectory in many areas. We seem to be following the US down certain paths where we're like 20 years behind them but where we can see the very negative outcomes of those paths playing out right before our eyes in the US today.

Good well balanced post.

Is there any country on earth that isn't having the challenges we are having though like rising inequality or housing affordability issues???

And debt levels in pretty much all countries are rising at crazy rates.

Personally i think these things are inevitable, because success is never equal so the gap between least successful and successfully always widens

The most important aspect though is overall rating of things like employment, poverty rates, health and life expediency etc

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GuySmiley Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:25am

With electoral redistributions in most states favouring the ALP the LNP need to pick up a minimum 3 more seats on their last election result to form govt.

That’s a mighty ask before voters reflect on LNPs poor performance.

Things will be much clearer by the end of the month but at this stage it’s very likely we will see a ALP govt. The only question is by what majority?

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AndyM Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 10:59am

I think you're a bit behind the times Indo.

The 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index shows Australia ranked number 18 in the world with a score of 73/100, down from a score of 85/100 in 2012.
This shows a steady drop under both Labor and LNP governments over the last decade but a drop from 11th to 18th in only the last year under the Libs.

It's worth noting that apart from Singapore, all of the countries ranked in the top ten are multi party democracies.

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 11:20am
indo-dreaming wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

And yeah, Howard/ Costello sold (privatised) everything that wasn't bolted down that was owned by Australians. The genius Costello sold our Gold at record low prices! That's up there with keeping our emergency fuel reserves in the USA, Good work Angus!!
The worst aspects of Howard were not his economic issues but social, he encouraged racism via Hanson, illegal refugees ( not illegal), created division, got us involved in expensive wars where we had no business, cut University funding especially in Arts and Asian studies Depts, ( I lived through this one, he gutted it).
The only thing Howard deserves to mention in his memoirs is his stance on guns, and getting voted out in his own electorate.

Friday morning rant over.....

You are the biggest Labor shill ever, it's honestly pointless discussing things with you because you just have such a twisted grasp of reality, the election results speak for them selves people kept voting in Howard because of his success in providing them more opportunities in life like basic things like employment.

BTW it was Keating (one of the worst governments ever) that introduced mandatory detention for illegal arrivals.

Labor shill?
No don't think so. Just over incompetence and corruption which is then covered up and supported by media. If ALP in govt would be just as pissed off if they were getting away with it to such a degree....
We need a third party such as the old Democrats to keep the bastards honest....

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 11:20am
soggydog wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

In regards to the many examples of corruption.
Hopefully Labor if they win, big if, implement a proper ICAC and some of these LNP face a judge with serious consequences issue such as jail if laws have been broken. Only way to fix the blatant corruption that is occurring. If some ALP or any other Party members get caught out, then that can be a good thing.
As gsco pointed out, we are heading towards a system such as the USA with major disparity in wealth and opportunity, and another term of LNP govt will only quicken this process.
For the record, I love Australia and know I won lottery of life being born here and to have had the opportunities I have had. I only wish I had the confidence my daughter will get a chance to grow up in an fair and egalitarian society I experienced growing up.

We’ll said. Good rant.

Thanks, couple strong coffee's this morning. ;)

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 12:00pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/_juliabradley/status/1489388638802956289

Oh that changes everything. Scomo got my vote now!!

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soggydog Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 12:02pm
andy-mac wrote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/_juliabradley/status/1489388638802956289

Oh that changes everything. Scomo got my vote now!!

Info’s hero!

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soggydog Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 12:06pm

“You are the biggest Labor shill ever, it's honestly pointless discussing things with you because you just have such a twisted grasp of reality.”

Replace Labour with LNP and you pretty much described yourself Indo

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Supafreak Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 12:17pm
andy-mac wrote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/_juliabradley/status/1489388638802956289

Oh that changes everything. Scomo got my vote now!!

I thought he said he didn’t hold a hose ! Bloody imposter lying again.

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andy-mac Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 12:34pm
Supafreak wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

https://mobile.twitter.com/_juliabradley/status/1489388638802956289

Oh that changes everything. Scomo got my vote now!!

I thought he said he didn’t hold a hose ! Bloody imposter lying again.

Haha ◉‿◉

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I focus Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 1:41pm

Gee you lot are harsh on the Coalition just be patient for gods sake the jobs boom and savings at the till from cutting penalty rates is still coming just like the massive savings we had from cutting the carbon tax and helping Gina stopping that mining tax,

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indo-dreaming Friday, 4 Feb 2022 at 2:03pm
AndyM wrote:

I think you're a bit behind the times Indo.

The 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index shows Australia ranked number 18 in the world with a score of 73/100, down from a score of 85/100 in 2012.
This shows a steady drop under both Labor and LNP governments over the last decade but a drop from 11th to 18th in only the last year under the Libs.

It's worth noting that apart from Singapore, all of the countries ranked in the top ten are multi party democracies.

Okay fair enough double checking the article i read from last year and the idea link it does seems to have changed since.

BTW. It should be noted its a perception index of corruption rather than a proper measure, perception doesn't always reflect reality, if media etc focus on one or two incidents perception changes while in reality there could have been more corruption before just without the focus

Either way each to their own, but my concern is more the things that really affect me and my family, like employment rates, interest rates, cost of living etc

And i guess now freedoms too.