2022 Election
They may be “a lot better” but it’d be prudent to understand who their masters are and what their reason for being actually is as a political party.
"Or, perhaps Albo is an overly rigid leader, unable to adapt to the fast-moving demands of economic shocks and grasping ever more tightly to his own sinking platform with each blow to it."
sounds familiar...
"They may be “a lot better” but it’d be prudent to understand who their masters are and what their reason for being actually is as a political party."
ya gotta wonder....
like, really really wonder...
AndyM wrote:They may be “a lot better” but it’d be prudent to understand who their masters are and what their reason for being actually is as a political party.
I an ideal world their masters should be Australian citizens. Ok maybe not an ideal world. My limited understanding of how the Labor Party operates is that there would be ongoing internal conflict within the different factions within the party, the left more aligned with the union movement, the right more supportive of business groups, the union faction aligned with more traditional Catholic union etc.
Then the party has to work within the media/social environment of Australia. If they propose anything too radical as some commentators suggest they should, they will be attacked by the media and it's hard to enact policies from opposition, remember what happened when they suggested increasing taxes on resources? Twiggy and Gina in workers gear in the back of utes..... And that was that, welcome Tony Abbott.
Lot's of masters I would say, but I would still argue that they are the better party to have in government for the vast majority of Australians. I personally think Albo has started well and hope he grows into the role and can start to get some positive changes happening....
That's my 2cents worth.
"...My limited understanding of how the Labor Party operates is that there would be ongoing internal conflict within the different factions within the party, the left more aligned with the union movement, the right more supportive of business groups, the union faction aligned with more traditional Catholic union etc..."
surely these factions agree that looking after gas cartels is not the role of the labor party?
especially when the businesses these 'business factions' represent, are experiencing such exorbiant and debilitating energy prices...
businesses are literally shutting down or becoming unviable due to gas prices. real busineses, that actually make stuff, stuff that is required / desired due to a failing a supply chain model... a model that should have been the bane of labor for decades... should have been...
shit just don't add up...
then there's the moral argument... its fucking war time profitteering of the most nefarious in natures!
if the supposed 'left' cannot even make a stand against such things... then who the hell will?
The problem for Labor in Government with the current problems are that the problems are structural and been put in place over a significant time.
Governance is usually incremental which is useless when you have the current East Coast gas / power cluster, lowly payed unskilled work force, rising inflation and a broken supply chain.
Regardless of anyone's opinions these wont be solved tomorrow or the day after.
They started pretty well, Albo quick flight to Tokyo and Penny on a lightning tour of the Pacific - with the big needed change of being able to re-engage there. I think there's a real desire to see them do something in the nation's interest and they've got the opportunity on a plate and its hair-pulling as they seem to be doing nothing (gas/energy). The precedent is there (thanks Alan), the mechanism is in place (thanks Malcolm)... the sounds aren't good. ALP are at their best when they do considered nation building - ie things in the nation's interest. ie in the interest of the Australian people, and I feel like I really have to spell it out here.
Also, what's the CO2, on average, emitted by each person living an Australian lifestyle each year? Add 200,000 more per annum? + 500,000 visa backlog?
We've had the state of the environment report lob in after the election as well, and surely if there's a place to adopt a Greens 1990s style population policy, it's now? How much more farm and bushland bulldozed for suburbs? And yet every announcement is noisily in the opposite direction, in a big way. Not to mention this will lower wage growth for traditional labor constituents - the initial pandemic response proved that borders could be restricted and this would see improving wage conditions for locals.
sypkan wrote:"...My limited understanding of how the Labor Party operates is that there would be ongoing internal conflict within the different factions within the party, the left more aligned with the union movement, the right more supportive of business groups, the union faction aligned with more traditional Catholic union etc..."
surely these factions agree that looking after gas cartels is not the role of the labor party?
especially when the businesses these 'business factions' represent, are experiencing such exorbiant and debilitating energy prices...
businesses are literally shutting down or becoming unviable due to gas prices. real busineses, that actually make stuff, stuff that is required / desired due to a failing a supply chain model... a model that should have been the bane of labor for decades... should have been...
shit just don't add up...
then there's the moral argument... its fucking war time profitteering of the most nefarious in natures!
if the supposed 'left' cannot even make a stand against such things... then who the hell will?
I cannot argue with that as I agree 100%. It's a joke that Australia is not taxing multinational companies in the resources industry properly. You can just compare revenue from Australian gas exports to Qatar and you know it stinks. Tax them properly, have a reserve for local use, if multinational companies don't like it , nationalise them.
I would guess there are those within the party that agree but are wary of another massive scare campaign has we had with MRRT proposal. Shorten cam with many worthwhile policies to address some of the structural issues Australia is facing and media destroyed him.Guess there are some in party who are happy for whatever reason with the status quo, lobbyists etc.
Anyway the reality is that the issue is structural and as it is with many problems within Australia, and these things take a long time to turn around. Example business needing workers, Australia has dropped the ball in educating and training where now positions cannot be filled across many industries. Short term fix, increase immigration which kicks can again down the road exacerbating housing problems, wage growth, environmental stress etc. To get training, university educated health care professionals, apprenticeships etc back up to required levels will be generational.
Both sides of politics has contributed to this, but the last 10 years the LNP turbo charged it
https://mobile.twitter.com/InsidersABC/status/1561136098545643521?ref_sr...
Well glad that has been cleared up!
Breaking news , scomo to take over as head coach at Essendon + tackling coach + kicking coach + marking coach + assistant coach and morals + ethics coach .
The gift that just keeps giving.
Albo’s Australia. There’s no ducking, weaving or virtue signalling capable of hiding the truth:
+
Hospitality sector scours the world for cheap visa slaves
By Unconventional Economist
Rather than providing training to local workers or offering decent rates of pay, Australia’s hospitality sector is spending thousands of dollars scouring the world for cheap migrant workers to exploit [my emphasis]:
Melbourne restaurant operators who have struggled to find local workers are heading overseas to hire staff with some flying as far as to Dubai to recruit chefs…
Simon Blacher, co-owner of Commune Group, which operates Tokyo Tina, Firebird, Moonhouse and Hanoi Hannah, hired more than 30 chefs at a Dubai jobs fair at a cost of about $8000 each to cover visas and processing fees…
Chris Lucas’ Lucas Group, which operates restaurants including Chin Chin and Society, also hired 30 staff from a Dubai jobs fair along with recruiting from Asia and New Zealand…
Earlier this year Hunter St Hospitality, the company behind Rockpool, Spice Temple, Munich Brauhaus and The Bavarian, took on 125 recruits from the Middle East, Europe and the United States through a three-week trip at a cost of $10,000 to $20,000 per employee which included visas, application costs, flights and accommodation…
“The problem is not being solved by the slow trickle of working holidaymakers, international students and skilled migrants, and certainly with a nearly 70 per cent dropout rate in food trades in TAFE there’s no silver bullet to solving the problem,” [Australian Foodservice Advocacy Body] director Wes Lambert said. “Many businesses are travelling around the world to recruit their own staff to try to speed up the process.”
Lambert said the government’s push to bring more skilled workers into Australia was proceeding at “a snail’s pace” and a proposal to increase the skilled immigration cap from 160,000 to 200,000 was a positive move but would not solve problems around red tape, including slow visa processing times.
“The food service industry is calling upon the government not only to lift the cap, but also to remove roadblocks like the strict English tests and the prohibitively high fees to sponsor professionals,” he said.
So it’s cheaper to fly around the world and bring back people from Dubai than it is to train locals?
“Nearly 70 per cent dropout rate in food trades in TAFE”. Well that is a good indication that there is something seriously wrong with the employment conditions in hospitality, where wage theft runs rampant.
“The government’s push to bring more skilled workers into Australia was proceeding at ‘a snail’s pace'” . That’s good. Australia doesn’t have the necessary housing for the people already living in Australia and the cost of living for the basics of life is far too high for those on the minimum (full time) wage.
The hospitality sector needs to stop blaming everyone else and stop demanding governments provide them with cheap and easy staffing solutions.
There are plenty of people that would work for the sector if it offered appropriate remuneration/superannuation, secure, part-time or full time positions and career paths/apprenticeships for those who want them.
Instead, the sector offers the poorest rates of pay in the nation by a very wide margin and is ground zero for wage theft.
Australian median weekly wages
Hospitality is the lowest paying industry in Australia.
The median weekly pay across the Food & Accommodation industry was only $500 per week in August 2021, little changed from 2015.
In particular, cooks and chefs – the focus of the overseas recruitment drive – are notoriously poorly paid. According to the ABS, chef annual average earnings (AAE) were only $57,704 in 2018, whereas cooks earned a pitiful $40,596.40. This compares poorly against AAE of $67,012 for all occupations in 2018:
Cooks & chefs annual earnings
Cooks & chefs are notoriously underpaid.
The problem lies with the hospitality employers themselves, and they should stop expecting the government to fix it for them by opening the immigration tap even wider.
Hospitality employers spent decades offering insecure, casual positions that required their staff to work multiple jobs, wage theft is common, and they provided terrible working conditions.
As long as hospitality continues to offer poor wages and conditions, labour shortages will remain. It is called a “labour market” for a reason – it too is subject to the laws of supply and demand.
The problem with Australia’s “skilled visa” system is really being exposed here. It is primarily used to hire workers at a lower wage than locals are willing to work for. It’s that simple.
Any sector that relies on cheap exploitable migrant labour to thrive is not a sustainable industry. It needs fundamental structural reform.
The below comment from “Soapbox” in the Fairfax article quoted above – nicely encapsulates the issue:
I’m retired now but cooking (Chef is a position in a kitchen, not a trade) is my trade, when I undertook my apprenticeship in the 1970’s we were the second highest paid trade in Victoria, only surpassed by aviation mechanics. Over time I experienced declining wages, declining standards of restaurant proprietors ( in it for the money, not as a passion) and a general dumbing down of the industry exacerbated by “skilled” visa schemes for “qualified” cooks that couldn’t boil water but were willing to work at a massive discount so they could get permanent residency. The hours are toxic and so too is the pay and the industry is over subscribed and offers mostly ordinary pub food. Going to Dubai won’t fix anything.
Giving the hospitality industry greater access to foreign workers will only worsen the systemic exploitation already prevalent, keeping wages low and denying local workers employment opportunities and a living wage.
Politicians must stop pandering to vested interests like the Australian Foodservice Advocacy Body. Otherwise, Australian wage growth will remain stunted and exploitation will continue to run rife.
Here’s the essential companion piece to the above just to remind everyone exactly where things currently stand. This is not hyperbole, exaggeration or misleading in any way. The parallels with modern Australia are irrefutable.
You proud to oversee a continuation of this Albo ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_London
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:https://twitter.com/bec_juniper/status/1557191674908266496?s=21&t=pkTsbM...
Really???
FFS Supa you are better than that posting such crap
Anyway who the fuck is bec juniper?...
Whats a bet she is some white latte drinking lefty who lives in some city.
Never had a flat white Indo, never lived in a highly populated urban area, never had political opinions while doing one or both of the above. Just like “Woke” it’s a fraise (?) that’s become a useless pejorative instead of engaging in meaningful discussion. It’s been used successfully by Members of the LNP and other right wing tropes to avoid and deflect anything from environmental issues to humanitarian issues. It’s lazy at best and completely fucking retarded in most cases. You can do better.
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:https://twitter.com/bec_juniper/status/1557191674908266496?s=21&t=pkTsbM...
Really???
FFS Supa you are better than that posting such crap
Anyway who the fuck is bec juniper?...
Whats a bet she is some white latte drinking lefty who lives in some city.
Never had a flat white Indo, never lived in a highly populated urban area, never had political opinions while doing one or both of the above. Just like “Woke” it’s a fraise (?) that’s become a useless pejorative instead of engaging in meaningful discussion. It’s been used successfully by Members of the LNP and other right wing tropes to avoid and deflect anything from environmental issues to humanitarian issues. It’s lazy at best and completely fucking retarded in most cases. You can do better.
Or can you?
+
Greens dill calls for rental freeze
By Houses and Holes
The Australian Parliament is overrun by ideological tosspots. Labor is for capital. Liberals are for conservatism and The Greens are for total environmental destruction. To wit:
The Greens are urging the Albanese government to impose a nationwide rent freeze for two years, saying the issue of rental affordability should be elevated to national cabinet ahead of next week’s jobs and skills summit.
New research from the Everybody’s Home advocacy group has found increased rents in regional areas are contributing to unfilled job vacancies, with some areas recording rental rises of more than 40% in the past two years.
…The idea is not without precedent. The Australian government froze national rents in 1941 as a result of inflation linked to wartime shortages, while the Victorian government put in place a six-month rent freeze during the Covid-19 pandemic.
The Greens’ housing spokesperson, Max Chandler-Mather, said the freeze would allow wages and incomes time to catch up to rents, which he said had grown seven times faster than wages in capital cities over the past year.
“With more and more people renting long term, we desperately need legislated protections against unfair, arbitrary evictions and skyrocketing rents,” he said.
“The rental affordability crisis is destroying regional communities and impacting the broader economy. A rent freeze will help those communities rebuild, tackle the skills shortage and protect livelihoods.
“If the government is serious about cost of living relief, if they’re serious about affordable housing, then it’s a no-brainer to freeze rent rises.”
No, it isn’t. It is a no-brainer to freeze mass immigration to stop the problem in the first place, not to mention save the local environment and make it possible for Australia to deliver on climate targets.
But no, The Greens want mass immigration at levels so out of control that both the human and natural environments are annihilated.
Freezing rents is a band-aid solution that passes the issue onto landlords and banks culminating in less supply and even higher prices as demand is continually pumped by The Greens mass immigration.
The Greens drip cognitive dissonance
Are you okay mate?
Just like “Woke” it’s a fraise (?) that’s become a useless pejorative instead of engaging in meaningful discussion. It’s been used successfully by Members of the LNP and other right wing tropes to avoid and deflect anything from environmental issues to humanitarian issues. It’s lazy at best and completely fucking retarded in most cases.
Bang on soggy
Avoidance of the easy order.
"Just like “Woke” it’s a fraise (?) that’s become a useless pejorative instead of engaging in meaningful discussion."
I'd suggest that "woke" has become a pejorative because it's become a "thing" to engage in ugly hectoring instead of engaging in meaningful discussion.
This is not to deny the real need for discussion around important social and environmental issues.
dandandan wrote:Are you okay mate?
Who , me?
Oh, you know. Got a bit going on. It’s not all sunshine and lollipops. Take it on the chin, cop it sweet etc etc. There’s always someone worse off.
How you doin’?
BTW apologies if you didn’t realise that I didn’t write that post. It’s from the Excellent Macrobusiness website. I do agree with every word though. If the Greens really want to provide affordable rent then they can stop braying about our obligations to import the remaining however many billions of humans who have yet to move to Australia. It’s this infantile attempt to assuage their hard-cultivated white guilt, by throwing our borders wide open , which is the primary driver for In availability of rentals in the first place.
Far more onerous than short term accom provision, is the pure demand driven competition for the rental market. If they arent possessed of the ability to realise that the importation of a million extra wannabe tenants every few years is atomic fuel on the rental problem bonfire , then I’ve no problem someone taking them to task over it.
Can't really disagree DSDS, and when you throw in interest rate rises the Greens seem to be off with the fairies if they think that freezing rents European style is a good idea.
There's have to be a comprehensive overhaul of the Australian housing (investment) system for this to even be considered.
What’s the solution then for filling the huge amount of vacancies in aged care ? There’s talk of increasing the miserable hourly rate but I doubt that will fix the problem. Is the government really aiming for a million new residents every few years ? I thought it was going to be capped at 200,000 a year or is this also wrong ? Don’t get me wrong I’m not all for mass immigration as the solution, I’m just asking what others see as the solution for filling the vacancies in area’s that are struggling like aged care , not to mention mental health etc etc
Robwilliams wrote:Just like “Woke” it’s a fraise (?) that’s become a useless pejorative instead of engaging in meaningful discussion. It’s been used successfully by Members of the LNP and other right wing tropes to avoid and deflect anything from environmental issues to humanitarian issues. It’s lazy at best and completely fucking retarded in most cases.
Bang on soggy
Avoidance of the easy order.
This is such a weird thing to say those against wokeness which definitely not limited to those on the right are generally the ones that want to discuss it the most and engage in meaningful discussion, generally why an aspect of wokeness is generally wrong and often damaging to individuals or society.
But yeah sure in some areas of life wokeness is hard to push back on or even discuss in a meaningful way, and there is very good reason for this because WOKENESS AND CANCEL CULTURE GO HAND IN HAND, they are almost the same beast, the woke are also those who cancel.
The reality is discussing woke topics in many circles with opposing views can sometimes can get you cancelled by those generally on the left that say we shall dare not discuss these things and how i think is how you must think, no questions asked. even if it goes against common sense, logic or even science or biology in some cases..
Its the woke that throw out one line catchphrases without any real discussion on the effects to individuals or society a great example was "defund the police" yeah fucking great idea said no one ever with half a brain.
I mean seriously you must be living under a rock if havent come across the obsession of people in particularly the right with discussing any topic related to wokenes in depth if they can without being canceled that is.
If you have been living under a rock, then maybe a good place to peak your head out from that rock is Triggernomentry podcast thats has pretty much talked about every aspect of wokeness with those experienced in each field or those whom have been cancelled for pushing back against wokeness https://www.youtube.com/c/Triggerpod or even Joe Rogan or countless other podcast.
BTW. Sure there is a woke aspect to some environmental issues, but i dont think its a very good example of wokeness, its kind of a borderline area, i dont see it as a real woke issue even global warming, take for example Elon Musk, to me he is very anti woke he even almost bought Twitter because of his passion for free speech and pushing back against wokeness and cancel culture, and while he is a capitalist i see him as an environmentalist i mean look what he has done with EV's and advancing EV tech and bringing it to the world, he has even made EV's kinda cool, and we all know getting rid of petrol cars for EV's is a key part of reducing emissions.
BTW. how on earth can you freeze rents?....
Im confused is this really a thing?
In a free democratic country how can you tell people how much they can charge for rent?
Especially with inflation and rising interest rates where the cost to land lords is going up.
Yep not black and white scenario with the major shortage of skilled and non skilled jobs that need filling. 10 years of absolute mismanagement and ripping money out of the education/ training sector is coming to fruition, another legacy of rabble who claimed to be government. Need combination of immigration and training to start to address this problem. Also Australia has a shrinking tax base so definitely needs younger workers to help pay for the older demographic which will put more and more pressure on health care and other govt services. Don't think another Costello baby bonus is answer ... That cohort is a whole other story. Happy to have anyone come up with a viable solution, no use just bitching about immigration, I personally don't like the area I live in getting busier and busier.
Anyway got to be happy that the Robo debt Royal Commission has been announced, hopefully there is some major karma headed Morrison's, Robert's and Porters way.
Good entre for ICAC.....
Woke ness, political correctness, cancel culture really mean little to me. Im looking for truth and proven conscious fact. Anything outside of that is a distraction for argument sake. Scomo was just a distraction from the truth, in part why he failed so astoundingly in a number of areas. What is the truth? Something that is factually true or an idea unproven or unsound in it's evidently clear fact?
Being lead to believe is not seeing for ones self under circumstantial evidence. Ignoring the truth is convenient and nothing more. But what and where is the truth? And why is it important to form a factual argument of true weight? Conspiracies and agendas don't help when looking for true fact right or left. People are awake or awoke to this fact. Through constant political failure where direct action or argument, consideration is needed. Otherwise true fact stands for nothing.
Wether Right or Left its a failed rabble unsound of factual debate leading to progression.
The stiflers stifle and the progress ors push factually forward right or left. The need to complicate simple proven fact by unsound argument is outdated left or right. Progression of man is being held back by the unsound and factually dismissive in some sense.. One step forward three steeps back is a common political theme in the light of true fact.
Robwilliams wrote:Woke ness, political correctness, cancel culture really mean little to me. Im looking for truth and proven conscious fact. Anything outside of that is a distraction for argument sake. Scomo was just a distraction from the truth, in part why he failed so astoundingly in a number of areas. What is the truth? Something that is factually true or an idea unproven or unsound in it's evidently clear fact? Being lead to believe is not seeing for ones self under circumstantial evidence.
Dude you say the weirdest things, wokeness is generally anti truth.
Most wokeness centres around identity politics and self identity and an idea you decide what is real instead of reality based on something more concrete.
For example identifying(feeling) as the opposite sex makes you the opposite sex, or you can choose or make up some crazy new gender cause thats how i feel, or making up nonsensical words that others should address you by, like zie, zim, zir, zis, zieself ; sie, sie,
Or that because your great grandmother was ethnicity A but all your other close relatives since have been ethnicity B you can identify as A
What is the identity of truth? Outside of a need for cliche identity politics that really is an individuals right on sexuality or freedom of sexuality choice. Is identity politics the banning abortion in the name of religion regardless of truth or the sexuality of those who are most effected? Titles are just mannerisms and labels placed down through time. To me I can't see positive reform in the face of fact in such confined thinking. Scientifically or socially argued otherwise. Pointless to all but the individual effected. B grade politics right or left.Often pushed by religious belief despite overwhelming fact or social significance. I could identify as a cow, it doesn't change factual progressive discussion outside of identity politicks, manipulation and shadow play. Does how someone identifies get you all beat up? Just address them as you would wish to be addressed. I presume that is with basic respect regardless of political ideals and religious moral ground that astoundingly isn't fact to all but to those that follow their chosen religon. With or without cries of persecution.
Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Tolerance or intolerance?
wokeness is anti truth? Or an overused word in place awareness in some regard? Injustice will always be present just as the revival of the term wokeness where argument-ally convenient. Right or left. It is limiting to label every argument of and for injustice woke for arguments sake. The label is often used to describe those who appose injustice not the ideas being put forth. Simple silencing regardless of factual truth. e,g Your woke so your opposition to injustice is meaningless under the definition of woke. A bit like political or social stonewalling.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/wokeness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke#:~:text=In%20the%2021st%20century's%20first,or%20racial%20discrimination%20and%20injustice%22.
Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
We took are eye off the ball a long time ago regardless of the new found interest in political wokness. Smoke and mirrors as always. Who can you politically trust?
The whole 'woke' thing is just a distraction as was 'reds under the bed' and '$100 lamb roasts' were...
Create a issue, rally up the mob and there ya go, non thinking population are in agreement....
Conservatives, Tories, Right Wingers or whatever you wish to label them have been at it for years....
https://m.
Of the important core issues that gsco mentions what have been some of the most soundly successful recent political implementations for long term future viability for all Australians?
“Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China,”
Not really, when there’s a big chunk of people out there who think if you criticise the Chinese it’s on racial grounds.
“ Create a issue, rally up the mob and there ya go, non thinking population are in agreement....”
Sure the right have done this forever but the “progressive left” have totally taken this on board.
And where the progressive limit greater understanding of their ideas is the ineffectual application and concept of applying non factual truth to their argument be it right or left.
gsco wrote:Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
For what it's worth, much of that is what the Greens campaigned on during the election. Huge investments in public health, huge investments in public housing which people can own and live in for a lifetime, making TAFE and university free (and making public education genuinely free - any proper poor person can tell you it is not), resetting the tax settings that make billionaires and large corporations pay the level of taxes they should be (not sure how that is in any way "woke"), giving stronger rights to the 30% of Australians who rent their homes, addressing government interventions in the housing market by grandfathering negative gearing and fixing CGT concessions, raising the rates of the pension and Newstart etc. above the poverty line, and so on. Conservatives are far more obsessed with gender politics than any progressive person I know.
As an aside, would I be right in saying that the average age of people commenting on this thread is closer to 65 than it is to 35?
Conservatives are far mor concerned with gender based politics than the core issues as we have seen time and time again
Robwilliams wrote:And where the progressive limit greater understanding of their ideas is the ineffectual application and concept of applying non factual truth to their argument be it right or left.
yep
it was / is all... 'swallow the indoctrination dogma whole, ...ask no questions, ...cite no statistics ...'
or...
'you're a right wing fascist'
aside from being kind of fascist in itself...
its a great way to isolate any possible potential 'allies' that are capable of free thought...
capable of any thought at all actually...
it's was / is the biggest own goal ever...
well before the right sunk their teeth into it...
and 'factual truth' ... no such thing
apparently...
gsco wrote:Is Australia starting to run the risk of being overly obsessed with left progressive wokeness, identity and gender politics, an indigenous voice, warfare on corporate profits, climate change politics, etc?
I think the basic, core issues that drive the strength of a nation need to be focused on: public health and education, economic stability and growth, productivity, research and development, housing affordability, real wages, military capability, regional political and economic integration, natural population growth, Asia-Pacific security, etc.
Seems that we’re running the risk of taking our eye off the ball.
Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China, which must think we’re a nation of retards trying to fuck a doorknob by getting caught up with things like gender politics.
absolutely!
couldn't agree more
wokeness was an ok indulgance 5 or 10 years ago... now it is just plain suicide...
or a society eating itself
haven't watched your k rudd vid (but will...)
but i have totally agreed with things I've seen him say of late, however, every time i see him, i just think to myself ... '...wtf were you thinking?' ...and... '...where the fuck were you 5 to 10 years ago?'
the writing has been on the wall for a long time re. china... but we weren't allowed to talk about it... (see andym's post)
for an 'expert' ...he's pretty late to the party...
not having a go btw
and, hate to drag your academic lectures down to commercial tv level...
but I got drawn into a 60 minutes episodes youtube china vids vortex a couple of days ago, south china seas, spies, unis, ccp infiltrating corporations / government, hong kong, etc. etc.
you cannot tell me (not you personally) that asio and co. haven't been aware of the goings on solely post covid... the uni's thing blew up in their faces pre covid....
but the 'public narrative' was...
dumb, self sacrificing, greedy, ignorant, bewildering and silenced
largely by you know who... well, what...
fuck, some of the cats on here would still have had us self scarficing if that dam wall hadn't broken thanks to corona...
'turkeys voting for christmss'
(to borrow a phrase)
and, in yet another ironical contotionist twist...
those that love to talk about all things russianbots and foriegn influence...
are totally silent about the bots and 'influencers' totally capitalising on all things woke
fukn turkey/s alright
“and 'factual truth' ... no such thing apparently...”
It’s just about the most toxic and divisive aspect of the postmodernist Left - the idea that everyone’s entitled to their own truth.
Or, in the words of a very well-know political scientist, intellectual and author, it’s a place where truth is malleable and it exists to justify an ideology.
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blackers wrote:Indo, what is it with you and the gender thing? You often bring it up. Why does it bother you so much?
Yeah apparently it’s some left wing wokeness. But as we can clearly see it is only raised as a discussion point by RWNJ ala Indo Sypkan and Andy M. And my original post was more to do with your useless one liner “inner city latte sipping lefty”
Indo, you are the one who keeps this useless shit up. With help from Sypkan and Andy M. The rest of us want to actually discuss what’s happening. Do better gentleman.
Maybe read dandandan’s reply to gsco a couple of times lads. Then maybe get someone else to read it to you aloud. Then go and stand in front of a mirror and read it aloud again.
The only person who keeps raising gender politics is Indo, who then gets backed up by Sypkan, AndyM joins the fray and apparently it’s a left conspiracy. Yet those accused of wokeness never seem to raise the issue. FFS grow a brain lads. One between the three of you would be a vast improvement.
"...But as we can clearly see it is only raised as a discussion point by RWNJ ala Indo Sypkan and Andy M...."
you just did it again!
AndyM wrote:“Wokeness is completely fucking irrelevant when we’re locked into a cold and heating up war with China,”
Not really, when there’s a big chunk of people out there who think if you criticise the Chinese it’s on racial grounds.
“ Create a issue, rally up the mob and there ya go, non thinking population are in agreement....”
Sure the right have done this forever but the “progressive left” have totally taken this on board.
Yep, certainly true in some cases, although I don't really like the terms right and left ... Some terms have seemed have merged in recent times. Wellness hippy gurus types in some ways traditionally have left leaning views (peace, yoga, pot etc) in some regards, but very right wing in others (anti vax, qanon etc) ... Referring to more extreme fringes on both sides ..
And agree with Soggydog, only really hear the term wokeness being thrown around by what seems to be angry old white men or women ( referring to media not this thread) trying to get themselves and audience angrier...
soggydog wrote:Maybe read dandandan’s reply to gsco a couple of times lads. Then maybe get someone else to read it to you aloud. Then go and stand in front of a mirror and read it aloud again.
The only person who keeps raising gender politics is Indo, who then gets backed up by Sypkan, AndyM joins the fray and apparently it’s a left conspiracy. Yet those accused of wokeness never seem to raise the issue. FFS grow a brain lads. One between the three of you would be a vast improvement.
Bullseye
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