Australia - you're standing in it
Excellent haha
stunet wrote:Man Announces He Will Quit Drinking By 2050
Ok Indo, then how do you explain Indue. This is not about budgets or mitigation, it’s about extraction of taxpayer resources to private entities that are otherwise unnecessary.
What about Indue?
You need someone to provide the card and system.
Yeah sure it cost money, most things do, but if you look at the bigger picture you are going to be helping reduce some social issues, and i expect there would be an argument the cards would reduce social security fraud, as the incentive for social security fraud is not there to the same extent when you only receive a payment of 20% cash instead of 100% cash.
You might actually find even if the cost of the system is high, if you look at the bigger picture the saving in other areas such as social services or savings from reduction in social security fraud may cover the cost of the system or at least in part.
I think the department of Social Security would be the right place to manage it if it was deemed necessary for some recipients. But as we’ve seen in the past ,if it is a vehicle for the generation of profit, the provision of service will become secondary to shareholders returns. That is my concern amongst others.
Indue is Liberal party crookedness at its finest.
Who is Indue owned by?
Indue Limited ABN 97 087 822 464 (“Indue”) is a bank and Authorised Deposit-Taking Institution (“ADI”) that is regulated by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority. Indue is owned by financial institutions, each of which is also an ADI.
Scumo's performance announcing his EV policy today saw him regurgitate more bullshit than blowin. "I never campaigned against electric vehicles" Fark me, remember the "war on the weekend", "they won't tow your boat" blah blah blah.
He told about half a dozen other bald face lies at that press conference. He's taken bullshitting to a new level today, and I'm tipping we are nowhere near peak LNP bullshit.
"I don't think, I know" Macron was right.
Flash Back
Don’t let these shysters deny their responsibility for keeping Australians in the dark ages. #ElectricVehicles pic.twitter.com/CXTZyw5E95
— 💧 Johny Miller (@jmil400) November 8, 2021
Can Australia trust Scott Morrison with the shift to renewable energy?
— Chris Bowen (@Bowenchris) October 15, 2021
You be the judge…. pic.twitter.com/8Or9NTE4Az
gragagan “Who is Indue owned by?”
Larry Anthony was the deputy chairman of Indue up until 2013 but his trust company, Illalangi, still owns substantial shares in Indue.
Any expansion in services by Indue will directly benefit the former LNP politician.
“The cashless welfare card is administered by Indue, a non-reporting company based in Australia owned by Liberal and National Party members that donates to the Liberal and National Parties. The Former Chairman of Indue is former LNP MP, Larry Anthony who is the son of former Liberal Country Party Deputy Prime Minister Doug Anthony. Other companies now owned by Larry Anthony, or by the corporate trustee of his family trust, Illalangi Pty Ltd, work under ‘sub’ contracts for Indue itself and make their profits from dealings with Indue in the course of Indue performing its contracts with the Government. SAS Consulting Group Pty Ltd – a political lobbying group and Unidap Solutions Pty Ltd – an electronic digital IT services corporation provide the current LNP Government directly with various services.. Public money is being transferred to private individuals and corporations with deep connections with the LNP providing questionable benefit to the public and donations to the LNP.”
And yeah Supafreak, it beggars belief that anyone can even think Morrison is someone to be trusted.
That's way worse than what my 5 second google search turned up about Indue. Why aren't they all locked up??
"During the welfare card trials, Indue has received between $4,000 to $10,000 for each participant in the trial, even though the Newstart allowance is less than $14,000 per year.
Certainly, there are start-up costs involved in servicing this type of program, but up to $10,000 for a private company to manage an account only worth up to $14,000 annually raises questions of whether the Indue company is the most cost-effective option for this scheme.
It also raises the question of why Indue was chosen in the first instance, especially when the expertise and experience provided by the National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank, Westpac or ANZ would have been far superior.
Up to June 2018, the amount received by Indue was at least $8.8 million and, reportedly, up to $21.9 million as at August 2019.
If the roll-out of the cashless welfare card is extended on a widespread basis – as many Liberal and National MPs are now calling for – the value of the Indue company, and the shares held by Anthony and other Liberal and National party operatives will increase exponentially."
https://newpolitics.com.au/2019/08/28/indue-and-the-small-matter-of-poli...
Keep in mind that the Indue card isn't a one-off - this is a conscious policy of transferring public money into private hands, most usually the hands of LNP pollies and their mates.
AndyM wrote:"During the welfare card trials, Indue has received between $4,000 to $10,000 for each participant in the trial, even though the Newstart allowance is less than $14,000 per year.
Certainly, there are start-up costs involved in servicing this type of program, but up to $10,000 for a private company to manage an account only worth up to $14,000 annually raises questions of whether the Indue company is the most cost-effective option for this scheme.
It also raises the question of why Indue was chosen in the first instance, especially when the expertise and experience provided by the National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank, Westpac or ANZ would have been far superior.Up to June 2018, the amount received by Indue was at least $8.8 million and, reportedly, up to $21.9 million as at August 2019.
If the roll-out of the cashless welfare card is extended on a widespread basis – as many Liberal and National MPs are now calling for – the value of the Indue company, and the shares held by Anthony and other Liberal and National party operatives will increase exponentially."https://newpolitics.com.au/2019/08/28/indue-and-the-small-matter-of-poli...
Keep in mind that the Indue card isn't a one-off - this is a conscious policy of transferring public money into private hands, most usually the hands of LNP pollies and their mates.
Indo, how about now…..still a good idea?
gragagan “Who is Indue owned by?”
Larry Anthony was the deputy chairman of Indue up until 2013 but his trust company, Illalangi, still owns substantial shares in Indue.Any expansion in services by Indue will directly benefit the former LNP politician.
“The cashless welfare card is administered by Indue, a non-reporting company based in Australia owned by Liberal and National Party members that donates to the Liberal and National Parties. The Former Chairman of Indue is former LNP MP, Larry Anthony who is the son of former Liberal Country Party Deputy Prime Minister Doug Anthony. Other companies now owned by Larry Anthony, or by the corporate trustee of his family trust, Illalangi Pty Ltd, work under ‘sub’ contracts for Indue itself and make their profits from dealings with Indue in the course of Indue performing its contracts with the Government. SAS Consulting Group Pty Ltd – a political lobbying group and Unidap Solutions Pty Ltd – an electronic digital IT services corporation provide the current LNP Government directly with various services.. Public money is being transferred to private individuals and corporations with deep connections with the LNP providing questionable benefit to the public and donations to the LNP.”
And yeah Supafreak, it beggars belief that anyone can even think Morrison is someone to be trusted.[/quot
How about now Indo?…..
soggydog wrote:AndyM wrote:"During the welfare card trials, Indue has received between $4,000 to $10,000 for each participant in the trial, even though the Newstart allowance is less than $14,000 per year.
Certainly, there are start-up costs involved in servicing this type of program, but up to $10,000 for a private company to manage an account only worth up to $14,000 annually raises questions of whether the Indue company is the most cost-effective option for this scheme.
It also raises the question of why Indue was chosen in the first instance, especially when the expertise and experience provided by the National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank, Westpac or ANZ would have been far superior.Up to June 2018, the amount received by Indue was at least $8.8 million and, reportedly, up to $21.9 million as at August 2019.
If the roll-out of the cashless welfare card is extended on a widespread basis – as many Liberal and National MPs are now calling for – the value of the Indue company, and the shares held by Anthony and other Liberal and National party operatives will increase exponentially."https://newpolitics.com.au/2019/08/28/indue-and-the-small-matter-of-poli...
Keep in mind that the Indue card isn't a one-off - this is a conscious policy of transferring public money into private hands, most usually the hands of LNP pollies and their mates.
Indo, how about now…..still a good idea?
Look i know the system itself is a good idea you provide people with the things they need (and 20% cash) instead of 100% cash that makes complete sense, it obviously goes some way to helping solve many social problems and expect greatly reduce social security fraud too.
THATS WHAT I SUPPORT.
The company itself that runs it, im not here to defend, it's irrelevant to me which company runs it or even what they get paid
But quite obviously comparing running cost of a development of a system and trial is very different to an ongoing widespread program, you can be certain the cost per card (individual) if rolled out on a large scale would be a fraction of the price than the trial per card.
Another 'money for mates' LNP scheme. The gov wants to hand quarantine arrangements
to a company started up by an influential liberal party figure with ties to Morrison's electorate.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-10/private-quarantine-scheme-encoura...
indo-dreaming wrote:soggydog wrote:AndyM wrote:"During the welfare card trials, Indue has received between $4,000 to $10,000 for each participant in the trial, even though the Newstart allowance is less than $14,000 per year.
Certainly, there are start-up costs involved in servicing this type of program, but up to $10,000 for a private company to manage an account only worth up to $14,000 annually raises questions of whether the Indue company is the most cost-effective option for this scheme.
It also raises the question of why Indue was chosen in the first instance, especially when the expertise and experience provided by the National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank, Westpac or ANZ would have been far superior.Up to June 2018, the amount received by Indue was at least $8.8 million and, reportedly, up to $21.9 million as at August 2019.
If the roll-out of the cashless welfare card is extended on a widespread basis – as many Liberal and National MPs are now calling for – the value of the Indue company, and the shares held by Anthony and other Liberal and National party operatives will increase exponentially."https://newpolitics.com.au/2019/08/28/indue-and-the-small-matter-of-poli...
Keep in mind that the Indue card isn't a one-off - this is a conscious policy of transferring public money into private hands, most usually the hands of LNP pollies and their mates.
Indo, how about now…..still a good idea?
Look i know the system itself is a good idea you provide people with the things they need (and 20% cash) instead of 100% cash that makes complete sense, it obviously goes some way to helping solve many social problems and expect greatly reduce social security fraud too.
THATS WHAT I SUPPORT.
The company itself that runs it, im not here to defend, it's irrelevant to me which company runs it or even what they get paid
But quite obviously comparing running cost of a development of a system and trial is very different to an ongoing widespread program, you can be certain the cost per card (individual) if rolled out on a large scale would be a fraction of the price than the trial per card.
It has increased SS fraud, the provider is the fraudulent party. Saying you want to reduce welfare fraud for those who need it and you don’t care that there would appear to be corrupt practices in the administration and expansion of the card is pretty ridiculous mate.
Whatever clearly you don't have a clue about the issues around social wealth fare, you just swallow what ever tripe Get Up or whatever tells you to believe, which is to instantly be against anything the LNP does or says.
The idea be it if LNP or Labor brought it out or support it is needed, its just one of those things that makes complete sense and eventually will happen one day.
Pretty much the end of the story
@Indo - “it's irrelevant to me which company runs it or even what they get paid”
Total lack of ethics there Indo.
The gov aren't doing it to 'fix' any problems, it's all about transfer of Australian taxpayer dollars to private corporations. It's theft, stealing from every Australian and gifting it to their mates.
Whatever clearly you don't have a clue about the issues around social wealth fare, you just swallow what ever tripe Get Up or whatever tells you to believe, which is to instantly be against anything the LNP does or says.The idea be it if LNP or Labor brought it out or support it is needed, its just one of those things that makes complete sense and eventually will happen one day.
Pretty much the end of the story[/quote
Get Up? Are you serious mate. Your wilful ignorance is astonishing. You’re mind cannot be changed by facts…… I didn’t want to go there….. but here we are. Through numerous posts over the years it is clear that you are devoid of any moral compass what so ever.
It’s blatantly obvious that it is you with the severe lack of clues. Your stupidity is astounding
Cashless welfare cards should only be for people convicted of a family neglect offence….even then they’ll probably just trade goods for cash at a loss to get what they want. The whole thing is a bad idea. I would vote against any government bringing that in for everyone. At the end of the day govts are not responsible for everyone’s behaviour until they cross a legal line. The nanny state thing is getting ridiculous and the cashless society everyone’s enemy.
I’ll believe cashless welfare cards are in the public interest when I see corporate welfare being given the same oversight ,hurdles and conditions on expenditure by the taxpayers directly.
For those against the card
If we forget the cost aspect, let's say it full governemt run.
Do you peop think the system and card itself is a good idea?
If not why not?
The only real arguments ive heard is people can't buy things at farmers markets or second hand goods.
Which i don't see as real great arguments as one you still get 20% cash, and if you have 20% of your money left after living expenses on the dole these days you are doing pretty good, so people could still save to buy sonething on ebay or grab some things from a garage sale, and farmers markets in my experience aren't exactly cheap anyway.
indo-dreaming wrote:For those against the card
If we forget the cost aspect, let's say it full governemt run.
Do you peop think the system and card itself is a good idea?
If not why not?
The only real arguments ive heard is people can't buy things at farmers markets or second hand goods.
Which i don't see as real great arguments as one you still get 20% cash, and if you have 20% of your money left after living expenses on the dole these days you are doing pretty good, so people could still save to buy sonething on ebay or grab some things from a garage sale, and farmers markets in my experience aren't exactly cheap anyway.
Fuck that. Australian welfare system is paid for by the people for their times of hardship. Australia is not a nation of overarching totalitarian rule where the money put aside by the taxpayers for their rainy day is dispensed according to the whims of beurocrats. The government is a trustee who holds the money in the interim between the taxpayer handing over funds as tax and then withdrawing funds as social security.
The idea that the government has any say whatsoever in how the money is spent doesn’t enter into it. There is no difference between a public service wage given to a politician and a social security wage paid to a citizen.
indo-dreaming wrote:For those against the card
If we forget the cost aspect, let's say it full governemt run.
Do you peop think the system and card itself is a good idea?
If not why not?
The only real arguments ive heard is people can't buy things at farmers markets or second hand goods.
Which i don't see as real great arguments as one you still get 20% cash, and if you have 20% of your money left after living expenses on the dole these days you are doing pretty good, so people could still save to buy sonething on ebay or grab some things from a garage sale, and farmers markets in my experience aren't exactly cheap anyway.
But you put the cost aspect across in the form of recipient fraud when in reality it is fraud by the provider.
eBay Amazon and other such retail outlets are blocked on the card. Purchases have to be approved by Indue after an application is made. How much of someone’s life should be controlled if receiving welfare. And pensions, work your whole life, pay tax, upon retirement someone else decides how you can spend your reward for effort.
Blowin wrote:I’ll believe cashless welfare cards are in the public interest when I see corporate welfare being given the same oversight ,hurdles and conditions on expenditure by the taxpayers directly.
You are on the money there Blowin.
Totally. I'd be very wary of moving to a cashless society.
As for a welfare debit card, double fuck that. Isn't being on welfare bad enough already without being controlled or scrutinised by some faceless bureaucrat?
@indo , my mother saves most of her age pension, the only bills she really has , is rates and some supplements for her health . We moved back from Bali to care for her and pay for all the food, electricity and water bills . If she was on a card and not using all of it , where does this go ? She worked for 45 years and payed taxes and is entitled to the pension . She doesn’t drink, smoke or gamble ( maybe Saturday lotto 3 times a year ) If she wants to spoil her grandkids, a card won’t allow her to do so . Do you really believe the government cares so much about people that they feel they are doing them a favour by managing where their money is spent ? A drug addict or alcohol isn’t going to suddenly clean themselves up because of a welfare card , they will simply find a way to exchange what the card can give them for cash and be even worse off . This scam is a waste of taxpayers money and if anything really needs to be done it’s to increase welfare payments in this current climate of high rents and cost of living . There is plenty of work at the moment so the government needs to back off making it harder for those that are dependent on welfare. There doesn’t seem to be many punters on SN backing a pension card .
More than a tad hypocritical from the gov. Just yesterday Morrison was in the media saying "government should not be telling Australians what to do" and who can forget Barnabys psychedelic rant last year about not wanting government in his life.
But......then again....when there's a dollar to be made
Also put this in the context of the LNP wanting to have ALL government services, (education, health care, aged care etc) handled by private companies not government agencies. This means, as was evident in the federally run aged care homes last year, profit is the over riding concern, not service outcomes to the client.
Anyone thinking this change is a good thing for Australia needs their head read
"For those against the card
If we forget the cost aspect, let's say it full governemt run.
Do you peop think the system and card itself is a good idea?
If not why not?"
it's a disgrace of an idea... it's bad enough being jobless and on welfare without the government dictating where, and on what, you will spend your money
people need the option to make choices for themselves. in this age of the 'freedumb fighter' versus 'dictator dan' dichotomy... enough stuff is getting smoothed over under the noise of the zealots. the welfare card - and a cashless society generally - are both attacks on the one and only true freedom many unfortunate souls have left in our overly managed, nanny state, stifling society...
and, as someone who has had the pleasure of managing someone's cashless welfare card... they create the most insidious subtle monopoly, ...both for chain stores, and on a clients choices...
the cheap chinese shit chain store's cheap chinese shit, is significantly more expensive than the other cheap chinese shit chain store... despite them being in the same town, and even the same complex... and offering essentially the same shit...
and then there is the limited choice 'the client' gets... who is already living a micromanaged life...
it shelters and conditions their world
...institutionalised whilst living on the outside...
how governnents have allowed this to develope and fester is a disgrace, it seems politicians (of all colours) just don't care...
plus, it's the thin edge of wedge... blah blah blah...
having said that, there are times when some people finances need managing... this does not justify a wide sweeping cashless welfare card...
Scumo says he doesn't want the govt telling people how to live their lives with the exception of the following: He wants to tell who you can and can't marry, how you die, how many kids you should have, what your kids are taught at school, what sort of power you should use, who looks after your super, and whether you can afford a house, what you spend your pension on. etc etc. This flog wants to control the really big decisions in people's lives, but he's still happy for you to drive a big fuck off SUV. (preferably a petrol one)
Kind of sad people cant see the obvious social benefits a system like this would bring to dole related payments.
The over ruling authority/loss of control aspects is pretty much irrelevant when you're on the dole you're a slave to the system anyway.
Yeah sure those who already have these issues such as alcohol, drugs. gambling can find ways around it, but it's harder and it does help prevent these issues developing in others.
In regard to the pension its not even worth discussing, it's not proposed and never will be.
If it's not proposed for the pension why have the gov put 20 pensioners on cashless welfare cards as a trial?
https://cpsa.org.au/article/20-age-pensioners-on-cashless-welfare-card-w...
What are these social benefits you speak of Indo?
Beneficial to who?
@indo , what’s sad is what Scumo says isn’t necessarily what Scumo does.
zenagain wrote:What are these social benefits you speak of Indo?
Beneficial to who?
Im guessing you missed my post from yesterday, i will post the relevant bits from my personal experience below, these are just an example id expect there would me more.
indo-dreaming wrote:Personally even when i was on the dole i had times where i had $20 budgeted to go out and get pissed on Thursday $1.50 spirit's night, problem is when i was pissed i didn't give a shit about budgeting money and sometimes woke up with nothing or close to nothing in my bank account, id then have to borrow money from flat mates or friends to eat or pay bills, and my flat mates or friends would sometimes be in the same situation, the result was fights over money falling outs, lots of stress and even loss of friendships, and even times where you did go a bit hungry or lived off two minute noodles, i even went to a social welfare worker once with a friend and we got food vouchers to get by.
I had a friend who had a pokie gambling problem and would always blow his dole check on the pokies it was a never ending cycle of owing his mates money so he could eat, and hocking anything he had of worth at cash convertors, in the end his flatmates and good mates, basically had to say sorry no more and contacted his parents and somehow got him to go back home to Tassie and get his shit together. (where he was from and his parents lived)
Im sure there is literally thousands of similar stories that happen every week.
Some even worse like partners with kids and one partner blowing all the cash on alcohol or drugs or gambling (expect now even Crypto addiction would be an issue) and the the other partner not having enough money to buy food or pay bills and the kids often the ones who really suffer.
This all puts pressure on charity groups that already cant keep up with demand and often leads to crime because they have no choice as its the only way to get money to buy food or pay bills.
Off course there is stories of people cheating this card system, buying grocery's and selling etc, and some may turn to crime to get money if have a very serious addiction, it's not completely perfect like most things in life, but its a step in the right direction to helping solve all types of problems.
In low social economic community's, pretty much all problems stem from alcohol, drugs, gambling and just money issues often between partners, family, friends etc
Anything that can help reduce these issues surely is a positive, even things like domestic violence is often related too money issues, and like i mentioned above its often one partner like the guy who goes out and blows money on drinking, drugs, gambling etc leaving the other partner in most cases a mother short of money to buy food, rent, pay bills etc
The father often doesn't care until it affects him (then often blames their partner), but in many cases it's the kids and mother that suffer.
The systems would help reduce these issues because it helps ensure the mother and children still can buy groceries, pay bills or rent etc
gragagan wrote:If it's not proposed for the pension why have the gov put 20 pensioners on cashless welfare cards as a trial?
https://cpsa.org.au/article/20-age-pensioners-on-cashless-welfare-card-w...
Because im sure it would be an option that pensioners could take up, because many pensioners would sign up so they didnt have to worry about budgeting so much.
To make it mandatory for pensioners would obviously be political suicide.
I didn't miss your post yesterday Indo I just think there are other ways and ways that are a lot more dignified.
"Don't do government" by our mate Scott.
indo, this card thing and privatiseing of is just another case of createing cushy jobs for the ruleing classes rellies and mates et all...nepotism and cronyism, their children are being educated to walk into some beauracratic waste of space "job".
just curious, are u a govt employee or work for a contractor beholding to govt? or rellies and mates ditto? (non of my business,)
had lots of dealings with workcover, worksafe, environmental protect authority and ALL had same mindset, i would produce acts of parliament etc to prove my point and they would ignore it and in one case deliberately and illegally change the legislation to suit the multinats and insurers with the conivance of lawyers and unions, no bull.
i've mentioned it on previous posts this nepotism and cronyism is rife in oz and it breeds corruption.
Sure
sarcasm?
Not much point blaming the LNP for the welfare card. It’s just the latest instalment in the top-down neoliberalism which the global cabal have imposed since the 80’s. The local Australian pollies are just the branch managers for the vassal state of Australia. Our government is nothing more than the corrupt Sherrif of Notingham to the globalist’s King Richard.
Have you ever wondered why neoliberalism and the way Western nations are governed has evolved in perfect harmony and synchronicity over the decades? Coincidence….lol.
Example : The IMF ( unelected globalist institution ) has showed its hand as an instrument of the neoliberal global cabal for years. When they lend money to unstable nations they impose all kinds of wholesome conditions such as when they told Mexico they had to raise University fees, when they told Haiti they had to cap their minimum wage and when they told Tanzania they had to sell their water utility to a private company…..or else they wouldn’t get the loan which would be spent how the IMF tells them to spend it and with the companies the IMF tells them to deal with.
Sound familiar?
Australia is told what to do by international interests. That’s why the ALP abandoned the working class and followed the globalists favourite pled-distraction of identity politics. They had to or face another Gough moment! Albo would rather destroy Australian living standards through the neoliberal mass immigration Ponzi scheme than have to find a job outside of politics.
Anyway….the Indue card is just the start. It’ll dovetail with the Digitsl ID introduced in the Trojan horse of the vaccine passport and the social credit system, which is exactly what the Indue card represents, will be rolled out for the entire society alongside the universal basic income.
It's now up to
$40 billion of Jobkeeper given to businesses that actually made profit during the pandemic....
Whoops.. no claw back provision at all.. 'our bad'... as if! Tax cuts are always hard to get through for businesses so why not just give them our cash directly.... Labor too scared to do anything for fear of creating another negative gearing, oldies and their super scenario.
Once in a lifetime cash grab that us working suckers will be paying for, for a long, long time. The rest is chickenfeed....
https://www.afr.com/rear-window/jobkeeper-wasted-40-billion-not-27-billi...
The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.