2022 Election

blindboy's picture
blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 2:52pm

"There should be a seperate body run by the government that oversees ..."
Run by the government? How very North Korean of you ID.
And when Labor do win government (eventually they will) you'll be completely happy with this arrangement? Just between you and me, I can see you crying like a little baby if Labor got to run a "seperate body" like you are proposing.
Democracy ID style: people like Shittenhouse are heroes, the idiots protesting in Melbourne are cool and normal, and Governments get to interfere with the ABC. Is there any topic you choose not to side of the nutters on Indo Dreaming?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:01pm

Well it would save the need for elections.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:23pm
blindboy wrote:

Ha ha says the COALition supporter who thinks the Murdoch media is unbiased.

Murdoch media or any private media company can be as bias or unbiased as they like they are private companies, ABC is not it's tax payer funded.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:37pm
Vic Local wrote:

"There should be a seperate body run by the government that oversees ..."
Run by the government? How very North Korean of you ID.
And when Labor do win government (eventually they will) you'll be completely happy with this arrangement? Just between you and me, I can see you crying like a little baby if Labor got to run a "seperate body" like you are proposing.
Democracy ID style: people like Shittenhouse are heroes, the idiots protesting in Melbourne are cool and normal, and Governments get to interfere with the ABC. Is there any topic you choose not to side of the nutters on Indo Dreaming?

Sorry maybe my wording was bad, not run by the political party or government as such but another body independent from the ABC funded by the government made up of a diverse range of people with a diverse range of political views to ensure the ABC has a voice for all, not just the left.

Mate your clearly the nutter, supporting groups that think their is imaginary fascist everywhere so need to smash and burn shit up,

You think anyone who has an opinion that differs from your view is (insert a whole host of labels) I dont often agree or support the views of people like those current protestors but i can still understand they are just everyday people with real concerns and not the things you suggest they are.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:37pm

So an independent body to supervise another independent body. Ha ha this could be an infinite series. Indo the only reason you think the ABC is biased is because you get all your information from sources that confirm your own right wing views.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:45pm

I agree its not ideal, but its pretty clear that the ABC cant oversee this area themselves.

As for what media sources i follow, im betting they would be a lot more diverse than yours, ABC is actually my main source of media as i listen to ABC radio most days at work, but yeah to get a bigger complete picture i do also follow more conservative media too, especially if i take an interest in a topic.

It's often then i see that what the ABC is telling me or the picture they are trying to paint is often misleading and only one side of the story, that said ABC is nowhere as bad as other left leaning media and a lot of journalist/presenters on the ABC are pretty good and very central in their views and what they present, its only some programs and presenters that bring things out of balance and the fact there is pretty much zero conservative presenters/programs or views.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:44pm

Oh give it a rest about "everyday people" ID. "Everyday people" don't yell that premiers should be beaten with baseball bats. "Everyday people" don't pay a visit to MPs houses on Friday night trying to intimidate them at their homes. "Everyday people" don't carry gallows in the street or associate with these types of nutters.
Oh and "Everyday people" don't take nutters like Craig Kelly seriously. And guess what, Craig Kelly didn't hire an everyday person to do his security. That job was given to a know neo Nazi called Stuart von Moger.
ID, you have really been excusing some truly cooked units lately. You've excused a 17 year olds carrying and using military weapons. Where does it end with you?

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:49pm

Yay lets pick out the 0.1% in the crowd and then tar the other 99.9% with the same brush.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 3:51pm

So any specific examples Indo? I use a pretty wide variety of sources though I tend to ignore those that are fact checked as biased.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 4:08pm
blindboy wrote:

So any specific examples Indo? I use a pretty wide variety of sources though I tend to ignore those that are fact checked as biased.

Examples where you hear something on ABC and then get another slant from media and you are then like, oh okay that makes sense.

Yeah sure they tend to normally be around more social related issues like refugees, biloela family, aboriginal issues like deaths in custody or things like where Australia is at with renewables, Covid, the source of Covid/lab leak etc

It's often not what is said but what is not said too, a certain narrative needs to be held, so sometimes a few dots seem to intentionally missing.

I could give a few examples but it will probably derail the thread.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 4:13pm

Threads usually manage to get back on the rails feel free

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 4:23pm

"Yay lets pick out the 0.1% in the crowd and then tar the other 99.9% with the same brush."
I've highlighted the nutters speaking at the rally, and a neo-nazi bodyguard. Plus of course a few others who's props and actions are straight out of the Trump playbook..
Now you may not have seen the footage ID, but during those truly unhinged speeches, the crowd was clapping and cheering the nutters behind the microphone. And so far, nobody, NOBODY, in the LNP have uttered a single word of criticism of those dangerous nutters or the rally in general.
I know for a fact the ALP see this unhinged mob as an electoral threat, and the LNP see them as key demographic to retaining power.
This coming election, the LNP will again jump into bed with some truly awful people in an attempt to retain power. They simply don't care if Trump style division comes to Australia. In fact, they are actively encouraging it.
Vote wisely folks. It's hard to put the lunatics back in the asylum after politicians unlock all the doors. The LNP will happily trash our society for their own personal gain.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:08pm

@ BB

Few examples

Okay around refugee issue and offshore detenetion centres the amount of misinformation was crazy, so bad Nauru banned the ABC from attending the Pacific Islands forum.

Much of it just subtle misleading aspects that reinforces narratives like always running stories on the centres with a pic of people standing behind a wire fence, creating the impression they were caged in, when the reality was those at the centre we free to come and go 24/7 and the majority ended up living in the community even working and running business.

There was a terrible 4 corners episode that also ran that even ran with completely outdated footage on medical facilities

Then you have the Biloela family, so much of the discussion leaves out the important fact they were on temporary protection visas where its understood from day one, once deemed safe to go home they return home, they leave this important aspect out 99% of the time though, and give people the impression they are being sent home for other reasons and were accepted resettled refugees.

Aboriginal deaths in custody, often discussed but very rarely pointed out that when comparing the same number of people (non indigenous vs indigenous) in custody indigenous death rate is actually slightly lower, and they and pretty much all media also like to allow people to believe any deaths are of a suspicious nature, when the reality is most are of natural causes and any suspicious deaths are rare and thougly investigated.

Another one that comes to mind is David Dungay the Aboriginal who died in police custody the one we all saw the footage off getting dragged from his cell, when i first saw the footage from ABC i though WTF why did they need to get the biscuits from him anyway, off course i latter found out from other sources he was a diabetic and they were removing them for his own safety.

Things like Renewables is always a negative take on things, its rare for them to say wait a minute we lead the world in roof top solar, per captia we lead the world in solar and have one of the fastest uptake rates in the world.

Off course with the source of Covid they were like most media writing the idea of lab leak off as some right wing conspiracy theory and saying it wasn't possible and had to be from the market, the market where bats and pangolins weren't even sold.

I do think stories like this are just a product of poor research and just re hashing other news outlets news stories though.

I wouldn't be surprised if last year they ran a story on kyle rittenhouse being a white supremest too like much media another aspect now that has been completely busted.

Just some examples, but they happen all the time.

Its also often how its presented they can be very clever in how they mislead, a big heading and intro quite saying one thing and then in the story they subtly let you know well thats not actually true, but because the whole focus is on one narrative people walk away with that narrative and not the whole picture, its clever because it does help pass so called fact checkers when the facts are buried deep in the story ensuring they get the fact check tick, but still push a misleading narrative that they know will be popular with their major audience .

We need better from a government funded news service, we need the whole picture presented clearly and clearing up misleading narratives, even off they dont fit in with a left leaning view on things.

It would be awesome if every ABC printed story that ran had both a left and right view on things and then people could read both and make up their own mind.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:02pm

"Oh give it a rest about "everyday people" ID. "Everyday people" don't yell that premiers should be beaten with baseball bats. "Everyday people" don't pay a visit to MPs houses on Friday night trying to intimidate them at their homes. "Everyday people" don't carry gallows in the street or associate with these types of nutters.
Oh and "Everyday people" don't take nutters like Craig Kelly seriously. And guess what, Craig Kelly didn't hire an everyday person to do his security. That job was given to a know neo Nazi called Stuart von Moger."

'everyday people' don't try burn down politician's apartment buildings either...

you might have your trashy US movements people are acting out mixed up...

the shit you excuse one way, then the hysterics you display the other way are next level phenomenal... and there's some steep competition!

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:27pm

Oh get serious sypkan.
You're bagging me for not condemning some incident (some person allegedly trying to burn down a politicians apartment in the USA) that I have absolutely zero knowledge of.
Put up a link champ of the alleged incident. If it's true, I'm happy to condemn it.
Yesterday's violent props and chants are a pre-curser to domestic terrorism in this country. The visit to an upper house MPs home on Friday by members of this mob is a big warning sign that this situation is spiralling out of control. So too was the muppet armed with a crossbow outside parliament the other day. We've seen politicians killed in the USA and UK over the last couple of years. We've had multiple far right wing extremists arrested for planning attacks in Australia.
It is absolutely unforgivable that LNP politicians legitamise these rallies by being designated speakers, and it's absolutely unforgivable LNP politicians remain silent about the fringe nutters and dangerous trends happening in this country.
God help us if we don't thoroughly reject this Trump style rubbish Scumo and his LNP colleagues are cultivating in Australia.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:43pm

All a bit vague and general there Indo. Not to mention hard for me to confirm. Why not find an article on the Web site that you think shows bias?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:44pm

Did somebody mention North Korea?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:46pm

Open question for thread: if the choice is between ideologues who are staying quiet, and psychopaths devoid of empathy for others - how can I vote to sabotage both?

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:58pm
blindboy wrote:

All a bit vague and general there Indo. Not to mention hard for me to confirm. Why not find an article on the Web site that you think shows bias?

Really i think i outlined some pretty clear examples of bias.

But everyday there is presenters or programs that have bias, just providing one view and not another in itself is bias, it's not always what is said it also what is not said that should be said.

Like ive said before there is clearly presenters and programs that you can tell they try not to allow their own views to come through or really do aim to present as neutral position as possible but then there are others that clearly dont.

One other problem ive seen, is on radio when people call in presenters will call out false information especially from a conservative view point but other times they will let other false information from a left leaning view point get through without being corrected.

BTW. For what it's worth, i think in the last few years things have gotten slightly better.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 5:59pm

@VJ , Kim took a shine to Dennis Rodman , no doubt he would love cheech & chong

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 6:10pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
blindboy wrote:

All a bit vague and general there Indo. Not to mention hard for me to confirm. Why not find an article on the Web site that you think shows bias?

Really i think i outlined some pretty clear examples of bias.

But everyday there is presenters or programs that have bias, just providing one view and not another in itself is bias, it's not always what is said it also what is not said that should be said.

Like ive said before there is clearly presenters and programs that you can tell they try not to allow their own views to come through or really do aim to present as neutral position as possible but then there are others that clearly dont.

One other problem ive seen, is on radio when people call in presenters will call out false information especially from a conservative view point but other times they will let other false information from a left leaning view point get through without being corrected.

BTW. For what it's worth, i think in the last few years things have gotten slightly better.

So no actual examples of biased output or people at the ABC then ID, just your feelpinions.
For what it's worth, the best journos in Australia don't let politicians get away with BS no matter what their political persuasion is. Laura Tingle is number 1 for me. She has a razor sharp mind, a long memory, and she is very economic with her words. Raf Epstein is good too, and Murpharoo from The Guardian is up there. Speers is shit because he is so badly influenced by LNP talking points and PVO and Jo Hinderbrand are just clowns. Benson (who is knobbing Bridgette Sports Rorts McKenzie) is the worst political hack in the country.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 6:58pm

Plenty of clear examples of bias at 5:08 post and that just off the tp of my head.

Raf Epstein is a complete joke he is basically a mouth piece for Labor if they are honestly trying to be politically neutral they would kick his arse to the curb quick smart.

Virginia Trioli is most likely a Labor voter but i think she does a decent job at being as neutral as possible, much better than John Faye was but even he wasn't as bad as Raf Epstein.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 7:12pm

Well you assert that but without the actual video who's to know. C'mon Indo you can't expect me to agree with vague accusations about what you saw or heard. Get specific.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 7:13pm

The problem is iD, when any journalist calls out the BS from your beloved LNP your default position is to call them biased. You just can't handle real journalism. You can't handle journos shining a spotlight on shitfuckery by Scumo and his mob of crooks.
I'm glad when journos highlight Labor corruption. It's good for society. When they do the same to the LNP it really grates your gears.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 7:24pm

"You're bagging me for not condemning some incident (some person allegedly trying to burn down a politicians apartment in the USA) that I have absolutely zero knowledge of.
Put up a link champ of the alleged incident. If it's true, I'm happy to condemn it."

dude, there's just way too much shit you 'have absolutely zero knowledge of'...

be it by ignorance or purpose...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-...

time to give up the fake news and propaganda maybe?

I doubt it, seems to be the whole purpose

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 7:25pm
sypkan wrote:

"You're bagging me for not condemning some incident (some person allegedly trying to burn down a politicians apartment in the USA) that I have absolutely zero knowledge of.
Put up a link champ of the alleged incident. If it's true, I'm happy to condemn it."

dude, there's just way too much shit you 'have absolutely zero knowledge of'...

be it by ignorance or purpose...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-...

time to give up the fake news and propaganda maybe?

The weird thing is most of the time during 2020 he was basically making excuses almost protecting those rioting but they have still come after him, crazy.

I guess he realistically can never satisfy what they want, i wonder if now his tune and attitude willl change?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 7:28pm

OK ID. I'm happy to condemn those protesters who targeted the mayor. Shameful. As for me "almost protecting those rioting", do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?
How the fuck did I do that given we couldn't leave the country? Did I "almost protect" them via the swellnet forum? I'd really like to know how I almost protected them, Yes you are an absolute muppet.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 8:01pm

Working on the premise governments lose elections and oppositions don’t win them Labor should win in a landslide based on the corrupt inept scandal riddled performance over the last 7 years.

But ..., LNP +1 atm - 3WA -1QLD +1NSW -2VIC +no change SA, NT & TAS = Labor by 4 + seats less Murdoch & Palmer = LNP by increased majority.

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 8:26pm

you forgot to add the miracle of prayer = LNP by a landslide

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Sunday, 14 Nov 2021 at 11:01pm

https://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/politics/australian-federal-politic...

Sportsbet has ALP at 1.78, Lib at 2. Pretty close.

I'm calling ALP and did so before. We will see.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Tuesday, 16 Nov 2021 at 2:42pm

3692882-D-0-BDD-49-A8-9-FDE-63-D93-EE31159

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:14pm

The behaviour of protestors in Melbourne on Monday represents a new low as well as a lack of imagination so thorough there had to rely on tropes from Jan6 in Washington. They erected a gallows for Andrews, in the same way one was erected for Biden, and danced around it chanting “freedom” “traitor” and “hang Dan Andrews”. It was probably just good fortune that they got the name right.

That the protestors in Melbourne failed to muster the genuine fear produced by the attack on the Capitol might lessen the seriousness of the incident but does not stop it being a warning about how far Trump inspired radicalism has penetrated Australian politics. It becomes clearer every time he faces the media that Morrison and his team have studied Trump’s tactics carefully.

As the campaign gets underway we can look forward to more carefully constructed deceit (no lies now) similar to the nonsense about electric vehicles and job losses in the coal industry that was served up last time. The risk is that as the voting public have become even more polarised by the issues around the pandemic, the bullshit this time will be even deeper and more toxic.

Much of this is likely to come from the Palmer Party’s collection of wannabe politicians as they work to collect the votes of the extreme right and funnel them to the LNP via preferences. It worked a treat last time so we can expect greater intensity and even less connection to reality this time.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:17pm
blindboy wrote:

The behaviour of protestors in Melbourne on Monday represents a new low as well as a lack of imagination so thorough there had to rely on tropes from Jan6 in Washington. They erected a gallows for Andrews, in the same way one was erected for Biden, and danced around it chanting “freedom” “traitor” and “hang Dan Andrews”. It was probably just good fortune that they got the name right.

That the protestors in Melbourne failed to muster the genuine fear produced by the attack on the Capitol might lessen the seriousness of the incident but does not stop it being a warning about how far Trump inspired radicalism has penetrated Australian politics. It becomes clearer every time he faces the media that Morrison and his team have studied Trump’s tactics carefully.

As the campaign gets underway we can look forward to more carefully constructed deceit (no lies now) similar to the nonsense about electric vehicles and job losses in the coal industry that was served up last time. The risk is that as the voting public have become even more polarised by the issues around the pandemic, the bullshit this time will be even deeper and more toxic.

Much of this is likely to come from the Palmer Party’s collection of wannabe politicians as they work to collect the votes of the extreme right and funnel them to the LNP via preferences. It worked a treat last time so we can expect greater intensity and even less connection to reality this time.

Hey Blindboy, i think UAP have confirmed their preferences will not be going to the LNP.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:32pm

"Hey Blindboy, i think UAP have confirmed their preferences will not be going to the LNP."
haaaaa haaaaaaaa.
Hey burleigh, I will bet you my house that Palmer will preference the ALP below the LNP at the next federal election. There's only three certainties in life. Death, taxes, and Palmer being a stooge for the LNP.

gragagan's picture
gragagan's picture
gragagan Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:40pm

So the Victorian gov gets hassled by the fed gov to bring themselves into line with the rest of the country (NSW), make threats that if they don't they'll be left behind, they'll be a hermit state etc. Who knows what the threats were behind closed doors. Then when they do bring themselves into line they cop all this crap from lnp right wing idiots. It seems it's alright when a liberal gov does it but if labour does it "Aaarrrghh it's the end of the world, dictator Dan, blah blah bullshit". Didn't see any protests against the NSW gov's handling of things; the NSW lockdowns were a joke, a 'Claytons lockdown'. How do people think the rest of the state felt being locked down for weeks when the only cases were in Sydney, and yet there were loopholes for Sydneysiders to travel. After they let the delta strain into the country, then let it spread for 6 weeks before doing anything. The NSW gov came up with vaccine passports, mandatory jabs etc, which the fed gov adopted.

gragagan's picture
gragagan's picture
gragagan Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:41pm

So who's in control of the Palmer party? Is it Clive Palmer? Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:50pm

burleigh, no offence mate, I am not having a shot at you but I think you do need to do some more reading on current politics. People will take you much more seriously if you show more background knowledge. It is well established that Palmer's main interest in establishing the party was to protect his investments in coal. The LNP have always been more favourable to coal than the ALP, so his preferences will go to the LNP.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:55pm

Palmer's in charge of the UAP, and the reason for it's existence is to hoover up the lunatic vote and deliver it to the LNP via preferences. In return, Palmer gets a Federal government guaranteed to do fuck all about climate change, and a much better chance of opening up his climate destroying coal mines.
Securing the lunatic fringe this way, means Scumo can play the daggy dad / everyday bogan role while Palmer / Hanson / Reclaim Australia / ACL do all the dirty work attracting the anti vaxxers, religious nutters, racists, misogynists, and all-round cooked fuckwits.
Have you worked out why Scumo never criticises Palmer and the fuckwits in the streets of Melbourne carrying around gallows and nooses?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 1:57pm

Where do Sustainable Australia preferences go?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 2:10pm
velocityjohnno wrote:

Where do Sustainable Australia preferences go?

Not sure in the Senate, but they are pretty irrelevant in the lower house. Sustainable Australia don't run that many candidates and they have virtually no presence (no how to vote cards) at the booths.
"The New Liberals" are the party to watch. Strong candidates pitching to middle of the road voters and vowing to preference the Libs last in every seat. They have some cash and smarts. These guys could cancel out Palmer.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 3:00pm
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 6:25pm

Interesting VL. Years ago in WA there were 'Liberals for forests' who were in disagreement on the land management issue.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 6:34pm

Just going through the New Liberals National Security Policy:

"We must therefore move to secure our own defence. The first step in that process would be to stop slanting our defence spending towards large warships and submarines designed to support America in wars far from us and which are no risk to us, typically middle eastern conflicts. Large warships, large submarines and an emphasis on ground troops are not what we need for our own defence.

To plan for our own defence, we must first understand that we have the advantage of distance. If a major power wished to invade us, it would have to transport large numbers of troops a very long way on large troop transports protected by large warships. We would never have the warships capability to resist them. But nor would we need to.

This is because we also have the benefit of being an island, which we can protect with a fleet of far less costly small manoeuvrable submarines, which could do significant damage to an invader. And even if that invader managed to land troops on our northern shores, it is by no means an easy matter to protect and supply those troops over a desert march of several thousand kilometres, before they could get anywhere to do any significant damage, particularly whilst being attacked by our planes stationed in the north.

In simple terms therefore we need to readjust our defence acquisitions towards small submarines and aircraft support. We also need to form mutually beneficial defence pacts with countries like Indonesia, which also has the same island advantages we have, but which also has a large population and a large standing army, which would complement our naval strength if and when necessary."

Seems to me they want to fight closer to home with less capable subs. Ballsy.

It also smacks a bit of what consecutive UK govts did to reduce the fleet and nearly kill carrier aviation, that cost them dearly in lives and ships once the Falklands came around.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 6:47pm

TNL are very much focussing on climate change, and open and accountable government. It's not a bad formula to attract small l Libs who have had a gutful of this crooked planet wrecking government. This election will be about preferences from the minor parties. TNL and the "voices for... "movements would have a lot of Liberal MPs in nice parts of Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane quite nervous. And don't be shocked if there's a few more rural independents in the mix too.

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 6:49pm

That policy is also exactly what Paul Keating just said in his National Press Club appearance.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 7:03pm

Morrison hopes to channel Howard on interest rates — but that didn’t end well ( Bernard Keane and Crikey)

"Is the 'underdog' PM's policy to increase interest rates or to lower them? Or is he just blathering nonsense and lies in a scare campaign?

Scott Morrison should remember the 2007 election. That was the one when he entered Parliament, having secured preselection for the seat of Cook after the preselected candidate, Michael Towke, was the subject of an internal party and News Ltd smear campaign. Towke had thrashed Morrison 82-8 in the preselection ballot but got turfed. All’s fair, etc.

And it was the election when a prime minister with a reputation for mendacity tried to campaign on a booming economy against a small-target opponent. It didn’t end well.

But Anthony Albanese is no Kevin Rudd. For that matter, time would reveal Kevin Rudd was no Kevin Rudd. But there are a couple of similarities. John Howard declared he was the “underdog” six months out from the election, as Morrison did yesterday. (Rudd parried with his own metaphor, that he had the political equivalent of Mt Everest to climb.)

And of course there was the matter of interest rates, which went up through 2007, including during the campaign, despite Howard insisting in 2004 that interest rates would always be lower under the Coalition.

The prime minister and his brains trust clearly think interest rates are a scare campaign worth revisiting against Labor, suggesting yesterday that interest rates would go up if Labor won — although he carefully added “more than they would need to”, to avoid Howard’s fate — and, in a rather rambling address to business at Penrith, claimed the government was “keeping downward pressure on the interest rates“.

Except it’s the Reserve Bank that’s keeping downward pressure on interest rates, not the government.
Traditionally — and this was the argument Howard was making — governments keep downward pressure on interest rates by cutting spending. By removing stimulus and inflationary pressure from the economy through fiscal policy, monetary policy can become looser. That’s why the RBA cut rates in 2019 — because the government refused to increase spending to support stronger growth.

At the moment the government is spending more than 26% of GDP and has a budget deficit of more than $100 billion, which is stimulating the economy and adding to inflationary pressure, so the government is hardly “keeping downward pressure on interest rates”. Except inflating the economy is actually the goal of both fiscal and monetary policy at the moment. The government’s fiscal strategy, as Treasurer Josh Frydenberg outlined in April ahead of the budget, was to recognise that the RBA couldn’t reduce interest rates any further, so it was up to fiscal policy to drive down unemployment and increase wages growth — in turn pushing inflation higher and allowing the RBA to lift rates back to more traditional levels.

That’s opposed by the neoliberals and monetarists at The Australian Financial Review, who hate the idea of wages growth for workers and want punitive interest rate increases immediately to curb growth. But it’s the right call.

So it’s unclear exactly what Morrison means when he says the government will keep downward pressure on rates — they literally can’t go down any further. But does that mean he’s going to drastically tighten fiscal policy so there’s no risk that rates rise at all — not just by the end of 2023, as the RBA suggests, but beyond 2024?

Or was this just campaign-mode Morrison, who’ll say any nonsense, any lie, if it sounds good? The problem with opining about interest rates and how you can affect them is that voters tend to believe you — so when they go up, you get the blame, not the RBA, something else Howard learnt to his cost.
Howard chucked in the fiscal discipline thing and ended up trying to spend his way to victory in 2007, before Rudd cannily jujitsued that tactic by making a virtue of fiscal discipline.

Again, that doesn’t look a likely recurrence this time around — not so much because Labor already tried the fiscal discipline thing in 2019 and failed, but because Morrison is already throwing money at everything he possibly can.

This is the weird thing that the press gallery doesn’t mention when it relays Morrison’s claim that he’s an underdog. The economy is surging, the world is reopening, he has more than $100 billion in deficit spending as part of the biggest government since World War II — and he’s still trailing significantly in the polls.

Why on earth is he an underdog rather than poised for a McGowan-style wipe-out, or at least cruise to a Palaszczuk-style easy win?"

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 7:21pm

Interesting with TNL, it's definitely a way to split the Liberal vote and might just end them. Wouldn't surprise me if Keating mentioned a policy like that. Ever since the French 'Jeune Ecole' of 1880s (iirc) it's been said that large units are redundant, just build small ones with some new tech; every single time the threat has been responded to and countermeasures overtaken to defeat it.

Also the idea of fighting close to home, well, if you lose the first round close to home (like ABDA), then peeps be invading. Did U-Boats stop D-Day? (that's flippant, but by 1944 they were well and truly under siege even in the mid Atlantic via a combination of ASDIC radar, escort carriers with rocket mounted biplanes, massed convoys with protective screens to clear subs, radar detection of signals etc). Any future conflict, if it starts with a massed strike out of the blue, expect to be on the back foot for a bit, preferably far away from home.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 7:48pm

One interesting thing about The New Liberals is their name. The Libs fought tooth and nail to stop the new party having Liberal in their name.
The reason for this is a good proportion of Liberal votes have shit for brains and get confused filling out their ticket. It happened with the Liberal Democrats in 2014. That scumbag David Leyonhjelm became a senator because he drew the perfect spot on the voting sheet and about 10% of the people trying to vote Libs ended up voting for that libertarian nutter.
Tim Wilson's and Frydenburg's political future could quite easily hang on the luck of the ballot draw.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 7:54pm

Thread is good at the mo - smaller parties being discussed, policy being discussed, tactics being discussed. Let's see if it can stay on this focus