2022 Election

blindboy's picture
blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 10:07pm

The Libs tactics re pandemic laws are going down really badly in Vic. The mob in the streets are despised by the vast majority of Victorians and the Libs cosying up to these nutters is not going down well with the voting public. Having said that, I think Scumo refusing to condemn the nutters is aimed at Queensland voters. they are a weird breed up there, and Victoria is a lost cause for the LNP.
I just hope it costs Frydenberg, Sukkar, Lui, and Wilson their seats. When the PM won't condemn shit heads with gallows in the streets with politicians names on it, he is a truly awful man. A PM has zero morals and he's is putting his political ambitions ahead of basic decency. What a POS.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Wednesday, 17 Nov 2021 at 10:46pm

"Have you worked out why Scumo never criticises Palmer and the fuckwits in the streets of Melbourne carrying around gallows and nooses?"

because he thinks they have a point?

him, and a heap of people that would never ever vote lnp...

and, a heap of other people that wouldn't been seen dead with those guys in the street... but...

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 5:42am

That's complete BS sypkan.
Scumo wants Palmer's base (via preferences) but the Libs got sooooooo burnt in WA when Scumo and his idiot crew jumped into bed with Palmer for the High Court Challenge to open the WA border during the pandemic.
Palmer and his lunatic anti-vax fan club have no point at all. It doesn't take a genius to work out what would have happened in Australia if these nutters got their way during the pandemic. The bodies would have piled up high and wide.
Palmer and his idiot mob of gallows-carrying fucksticks deserve to be condemned and mocked, but you won't catch Scumo doing it. The PM will happily import Trump style idiocy for electoral gain at the expense of decent society. The PM is a POS just like Palmer.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 8:18am

I havent heard Scomo asked the question but have heard it asked to other LNP members on ABC radio, off course they denounce that kind of behaviour & props.

But they also acknowledge as does anyone with half a brain that it's silly to tar the whole crowd and protest with one bush and ignore their concerens because of the actions of a tiny minority.

Obviously the protest are made up of all kinds of people including anti vaxers, anti lockdown but many fully vaxed and pro vax, these protest are more about the concerns of the new bill and concerns over Dan having even more power than he has, people are concerned because we saw how power hungry Dan is.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 8:24am

The LNP want it both ways. They go to these events knowing that they will be attended by extremists, then when appalling behaviour occurs, they take half a step away. Meanwhile the RWNJs continue to follow their US leaders.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/far-right-protester-charged-by-...

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 8:30am

Oh FFS indo dreaming, Scumo has had ample opportunity to denounce these extremists but he hasn't because they are useful idiots for him politically.
He hasn't condemned his Liberal Party colleagues who have attended and spoken at these insane rallies.
Did you see the news overnight? A far right wing extremist was arrested for encouraging people to bring guns to the next rally to shoot the premier.
How fucking bad does it have to get before Scumo should actually step up and say enough? The warning signs are there, and if (probably when) a politician or media worker is physically attacked, it's too late for Scumo and Guy to say it's terrible. They fucking encouraged this shit.
And as for the bill, a couple of weeks ago this mob were bitching and moaning about the CHO having too much power. This bill shifts responsibility back to elected representatives, just what the mob wanted. The mob shifted the goal posts and now sook about a power grab. The new bill would replace the old state of emergency legislation (due to expire) that this mob hate anyway. FFS it's pathetic. Come mid Dec, thanks to the shitheads in the Liberal PArty, Victoria may have no legal framework to deal with a pandemic. ID. You are clapping and cheering a pack of dangerous arseholes.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 9:02am
Vic Local wrote:

The Libs tactics re pandemic laws are going down really badly in Vic. The mob in the streets are despised by the vast majority of Victorians and the Libs cosying up to these nutters is not going down well with the voting public. Having said that, I think Scumo refusing to condemn the nutters is aimed at Queensland voters. they are a weird breed up there, and Victoria is a lost cause for the LNP.
I just hope it costs Frydenberg, Sukkar, Lui, and Wilson their seats. When the PM won't condemn shit heads with gallows in the streets with politicians names on it, he is a truly awful man. A PM has zero morals and he's is putting his political ambitions ahead of basic decency. What a POS.

Did you see the entire crowd on Saturday? You have mentioned this one person with Gallows a few times now. Was it fucked? of course, but to judge a crowd of 50,000+ on one persons actions is idiotic.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 9:06am

Underestimate this crowd at your own peril. The people of Victoria have had enough. But keep talking about the person with the gallows Vic.

batfink's picture
batfink's picture
batfink Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 9:36am

It was a crowd with highly different motives though, reignite. Don’t get too caught up in the numbers, which as protests go was just average. It was made up of those who had a genuine concern about the laws which was justified, but I doubt that was the majority as those arguments are quite nuanced. It had grifters, Trumpists, MAGA hatted people unaware that the US is a different country to the one they inhabit, gallows wielding fools and a hell of a lot of people who were taking selfies at the gallows, so it’s not like you can just write it off as one person with nooses. Death threats against the Premier and public officials were made.

As for crowds, in 2001 the largest protest crowds in Australia’s history gathered in all points to protest against Australia getting involved in a war in Iraq. Surveys recorded 95% disapproval against the idea. Sydney Harbour Bridge, it’s on-ramps and off-ramps all the way down to Macquarie St were full of protestors, easily 10 to 20 times that crowd. Melbourne the same, all other capital cities and regional towns.

Howard was re-elected about 12 months later.

Of that crowd, those protesting vaccinations, lockdowns, public health orders etc were already unlikely to vote for either Labor or the LNP. Their votes will be farmed by the more extreme ends and fed back to the LNP, but that involves some slippage.

There is a saying about the wisdom of crowds, but also about the insanity of them. All you can confidently say about that crowd is that they turned up.

Wasn’t a patch on any of the climate activist crowds we were getting in Sydney pre-pandemic. Not even close to indigenous reconciliation marches.

Just saying. There is less there than meets the eye.

blackers's picture
blackers's picture
blackers Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 10:33am

" It was made up of those who had a genuine concern about the laws which was justified, but I doubt that was the majority as those arguments are quite nuanced."

Reckon you nailed it there batfink. Fair enough to protest and have a say, just keep it tidy.

BTW, are your wings really like a shield of steel?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 10:39am

Sorry burleigh but this is just a mob looking for a cause. The string pullers have their agenda and it's either make some cash (grifters), get rid of Dan Andrews (conservative politicians), or recruit people to even more radical groups (nazis)
It's a rabble. One minute they are anti-vax, then anti lockdown. When the lockdowns ended they shifted to being anti-vax passports, and now they are opposing the pandemic bill. It will shift again to the next scary thing in a few weeks time. One thing that won't shift is the target of the mob's anger.
Here's how stupid the Kill the Bill mob are. They hate the current state of emergency laws that give Sutton "too much power". The pandemic bill changes that but they hate the "power grab" when politicians have more responsibility. Who exactly does this mob want to make the decisions during a pandemic? Nothing can satisfy the mob. Actual results don't matter, keeping the mob angry and together is the key thing for the string pullers.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 10:46am
Vic Local wrote:

One minute they are anti-vax, then anti lockdown. When the lockdowns ended they shifted to being anti-vax passports, and now they are opposing the pandemic bill.

I would say all of these listed above have a mutual connection. wouldn't you?

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 10:59am

campaign harder vicvocal...

the bill is up for some serious amendmant

because it's shit, and people across a wide spectrum have said as such

(and yes, people are pissed with andrews generally... only a mindless partisan would think his performance is above reproach)

you trying to deflect to a few rogue protestors doesn't change any of that

personally, I cannot believe the crowds are so big considering we are coming off of restrictions

...australian apathy should rule the day... but they are getting serious numbers... still!

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:08am

"because it's shit," Sypkan, The Victorian bill has more oversight than the NSW covid legislation. The big difference is, the NSW opposition hasn't politicised the pandemic and News Limited hasn't weaponised idiocy against the NSW premiers.
"I would say all of these listed above have a mutual connection. wouldn't you?"
Yes burleigh and they all have limited shelf lives. The vax isn't lethal, passports have worked, lockdowns have ended, and the current pandemic bill wouldn't cause the sky to fall in. Make no mistake, this mob will need a new issue to rally around in the New Year.
Like I said, a mob looking for a cause, stirred up by scumbags.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:27am

sypkan, tell us all exactly what you dislike about the bill? And do you want it "killed" like the majority of the mob?
And if you do want it killed, what exactly do you want to replace the current state of emergency laws with that expire in mid December? The situation in Europe proves this pandemic isn't over and governments still need to introduce laws to protect the health of their citizens.
Here's where the rubber hits the road. The mob in the streets have no solutions. All they have is anger, gallows, the willingness to harm politicians, and a sense of connection with the other nutters marching beside them.
I'd be happy to give them some credit if they genuinely wanted to contribute to the debate and offer solutions other than Dan "dancing on the end of a rope". Until they do this, that mob can take their Trump rubbish and fuck off somewhere dark and dingy. And to the politicians encouraging and condoning this bullshit, they deserve to be wiped out at the ballot box.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:34am

Scumo told everyone to stop stockpiling toilet paper but on this issue his silence is just plain weird.

Patrick0710's picture
Patrick0710's picture
Patrick0710 Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:35am

More people protested against the Tote closing, so you know, perspective.

My prediction, for what it's worth (usually less than nothing!): The Bill will get a few more tweaks, taking on board some of the extra comments from the Ombudsman etc, and then pass in the final sitting week of the year and everyone will go home for Christmas claiming they won. But who knows? Considering the times we live in it's just as likely Holt will wash up somewhere near Sorrento with a cure for Covid given to him on that Chinese sub that kidnapped him.

fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21 Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:36am
Vic Local wrote:

governments still need to introduce laws to protect the health of their citizens.
.

That isn't their primary concern. They don't give two hoots about their citizens, which is consistently proven and you have been very vocal about. Their primary concern is the collapse of a health system and health services that is completely second rate due to their incompetence and ineptitude.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:43am

fitzroy, they want to stop the collapse of the health system to protect citizens from being unable to get an ICU bed when needed. Sounds like at least two hoots to me.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 11:59am

"The Bill will get a few more tweaks, taking on board some of the extra comments from the Ombudsman etc, and then pass in the final sitting week of the year and everyone will go home for Christmas claiming they won. "

You'd like to thing that, but I can't actually see it happen.
First of all, the grifters and their mob don't do victories, they do resentment. If their audience could influence public policy by traditional lobbying, there's no need for wife bashing shitheads like Avi Yemeni. There's no need for street rallies. Claiming victory isn't good for the wife basher's bank balance. Being a "fighter" for "victims" is how he makes his cash.
Secondly, I can't see the LNP supporting any Pandemic Bill. They've spent the entire pandemic undermining the CHO's message and promoting ideas dangerous to public health. The only chance they have of supporting a Pandemic Bill is if the focus groups come back with some pretty significant results suggesting the LNP is losing the debate badly. Geez, there would have to be some serious back-pedalling if the LNP voted for the legislation. What would Bernie "the sky is falling" Finn say?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 12:28pm

You don't think for even a minute Vic, despite the portrayal by the media, that there might be a few normal people that may actually have concerns about the introduction of this new legislation?

Or are every single one of them grifting, right-wing, neo-nazi, racist, white supremacist nut jobs?

From the outside imo, I think it's quite unsettling what's going on back home right now.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 12:33pm

ok you're right vicvocal

because you told us so...

so many tines!

now can we go back to minor parties and policy?

for vj

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 12:42pm

actually zen's here, with some refreshing sense...

give us another rant...

can you mention avi the wife basher and the 3 neo nazis again?

cos that shit never gets old... especially the way you tell it...

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 12:40pm

Clot Morrison this morning https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-18/covid-news-blog-november-18/10062...

Then Dan Andrews on unvaxxed being locked out:
"There will be less cases of this virus because those who have not got vaccinated … are not mingling, other than in essential circumstances, with people who have gone and protected themselves and protected all of us.

"The vaccinated economy is important.

"It won't be here forever, but it will be here for as long as the health advice says that it serves a useful purpose."

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 12:57pm

"You don't think for even a minute Vic, despite the portrayal by the media, that there might be a few normal people that may actually have concerns about the introduction of this new legislation?"

That of course depends on your definition of "normal".

We've had months of protests / riots in Melbourne. The red flags are there for all to see. Gallows, nooses, people smashing things up, taking over the Westgate bridge, beating up cops, calling for political executions, Trump flags, journalists being targeted. etc etc etc.

We've just seen a neo-nazi arrested because he called on other's to bring guns to the next rally to shoot Dan Andrews.

If "normal" people are joining these rallies, at the very least, they are staggeringly ignorant about the mob they are marching with, or happy to tolerate shitfuckery of the highest order.

That's not my definition of normal.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 1:07pm

Again, a complicit media ramming home the extremes without even entertaining the thought that maybe, just maybe there are people out there that have genuine concerns about a hurriedly drafted piece of legislation that can have severe ramifications down the track.

Patrick0710's picture
Patrick0710's picture
Patrick0710 Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 1:19pm

How long did the Bill take to draft?

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 1:44pm

Hands up who lives in Victoria?

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 1:48pm

Meanwhile, in Federal Govt land ie Australia, can someone please tell me how and why Stuart Robert has still got a job??

In a hatful of arseholes - which is the Fed LNP coalition - surely, he is king sphincter. Read 'em and weep, voters:

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 1:50pm

The minister, his blind trust and the NDIS entrepreneur. ( A Crikey Investigation)

"'Stuart Robert is the only Morrison government cabinet minister to have put a complete wall of secrecy around his massive assets via a blind trust. The Australian public has a right to know more.'
A Crikey investigation has raised serious questions about the use of a blind trust by Minister for Employment Stuart Robert to shield scrutiny of his financial dealings.

The questions relate primarily to Robert’s time as minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) between 2019 and 2021, and his relationship with close business associate and friend John Margerison, who is a leading entrepreneur in providing NDIS services.

Robert is the only Morrison government cabinet minister to have put a complete wall of secrecy around his assets via a blind trust.

Crikey‘s investigation shows:
Robert and Margerison were co-directors of a company which made investments with and for Robert up until Robert was elevated to the Morrison ministry
The Robert-Margerison company was registered at the same address as Margerison’s NDIS-linked companies. The address is that of accountant Sean Beasley, based at Robina on the Gold Coast
Robert has provided no detail on the blind trust or who is running it. He has declined to answer Crikey‘s questions, including whether or not the trust is being run by Margerison.

Under the prime minister’s statement of ministerial standards, cabinet ministers are subject to higher standards of accountability than other MPs and are ultimately accountable to the PM.

This is especially testing for Scott Morrison in the case of Robert, who is a close friend. The two have shared accommodation in Canberra. Robert acted as Morrison’s numbers man for the 2018 Liberal Party room ballot which made Morrison prime minister. Both are devoted Pentecostal Christians.

Morrison defended Robert to the hilt over allegations in 2016 that Robert breached ministerial standards when he accompanied major Liberal Party donor Paul Marks on a business trip to China. A subsequent investigation ordered by then-prime minister Malcolm Turnbull revealed Robert held shares in the same minerals company as Marks, leading to Robert resigning from the ministry. Robert said he wasn’t aware he had the shares. The public certainly didn’t know.

Who is John Margerison?

Margerison, 46, originally hails from the UK. Corporate profiles describe him as an entrepreneur and a strategy expert, with experience in capital markets, finance, trade, health, retail, banking, funds management, property and IT.

He is also reportedly a close friend of Robert and set up a so-called “business council” for him, bringing together business people and politicians. Margerison’s name appears in the Paradise Papers, a trove of documents leaked in 2017 detailing tax haven investments for the global rich. (It is not illegal to use tax havens to minimise tax.)

Crikey approached Margerison for a response to this series but he has refused to answer.
What really matters is the sort of business Margerison and Robert got up to together.
The business relationship between the two appears to have taken off in March 2018. Back then, Robert was into his third year of exile on the Liberal Party backbench with little prospect he would return to cabinet.

As the humble member for Fadden, Robert had more time and freedom to be the hands-on manager of his family’s extensive shares and property holdings. How extensive? Robert’s parliamentary register of interests records that his family and self-managed super fund held shares in 18 ASX-listed companies. Nearly half of those were involved in minerals, chiefly gold. Through interlocking trustee structures, Robert also held investments in technology, data and financial services companies as well as half a dozen commercial properties in NSW and Queensland.

The record shows that Robert returned regularly to update his parliamentary register with changes to his holdings and company structures. What was it all worth? It’s impossible to know — MPs don’t need to declare how many shares they hold in a company.

When Margerison came along, the member for Fadden was about to expand into a new set of investments, including a stake in a Gold Coast business selling dietary supplements for body-building.

The Margerison-Robert partnership

ASIC documents show that Margerison set up a venture called JM National Property Pty Ltd, and was joined by Stuart Robert in March 2018. Robert remained a director for close to six months until Morrison appointed him assistant treasurer.

And what a six months it was.

Robert inserted JM National Property into the heart of his financial affairs, as a trustee company for another trust which held property and shares for Robert and his family.

A month later, Margerison set up the Australian Ibero-American Business Council, a networking body which gave investors and businesspeople a forum to mingle with politicians and had been Robert’s brainchild.

In August 2018 JM National Property took a 50% stake in Cryo Australia, a Brisbane-based franchise group specialising in cryotherapy. Robert in turn became a director of the company. But after only 17 days media reports revealed that the company’s founder and co-director Neranjan de Silva had previously been convicted of rape. (An appeal to have the conviction overturned was eventually dismissed.)

Robert, who was Morrison’s assistant treasurer when the news broke, claimed that de Silva had not told him about the conviction.

The disability services

While Robert came unstuck in the Cryo Australia venture, Margerison was going from strength to strength in a health services business called DJ Health, part of the wider DJ Group which has a property and a capital arm. Margerison was a director and secretary of DJ Health, the engine room for several businesses involved in disability services. DJ Health director Nicole Wright had also joined as a director of Cryo Australia the same day as Stuart Robert.

And the business links between Robert and Margerison went further. ASIC documents show that both DJ Health and the Australian Ibero-American Business Council were registered at the address of Sean Beasley Accountants in Robina, Queensland.

Other disability services businesses registered at Sean Beasley Accountants in which Margerison is a director or an investor include United Disability Care (covering Queensland and NSW), Social Solutions (WA) and Adelaide Supportive Care.

United Disability Care’s annual report for June 2020 — covering a period when Robert was minister in charge of the NDIS — shows the company received $29 million in NDIS funding. The annual report also showed more than $5 million worth of related party dealings with Margerison’s corporate entities.

The wall of secrecy goes up

In August 2018, just as the Robert-Margerison partnership was expanding, Robert was returned to the ministry and forced to rearrange his financial affairs to avoid a conflict of interest. So he resigned from Cryo Australia and JM National Property. (Margerison remains a director of JM National Property.)
Robert then closed the curtain on his investments, declaring on his parliamentary register of interests that all his assets had been placed “in blind structures (Blind Trusts) that were independent of me, where I have no control over investment decisions and where they are externally professionally managed”. The declaration covered assets in his family trust, self-managed super fund, and major investment vehicle “Robert Property Portfolio”. He also declared that all shares held in his, his wife’s and children’s names had been sold.

What this means is that, since the Morrison government’s reelection in May 2019, Robert’s parliamentary interests register has been little more than a blank page in a time when he was in charge of the multi-billion dollar NDIS budget and privy to confidential information about the scheme.
At the same time, Margerison’s DJ Health, like other disability service providers, has branched out into the highly lucrative area of specialist disability accommodation — a rolled-gold investment underwritten by federal government incentives to stimulate the construction of housing for people with disabilities.

Crikey is not alleging any wrongdoing by Robert or others. The point is that if a minister of the Crown has a blind trust, the public should have a right to know the bona fides of the arrangement — including who is administering the trust — so there can be no suggestion of a conflict of interest.
Robert, though, has never made it clear who manages his blind trust."

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:07pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Few examples

Aboriginal deaths in custody, often discussed but very rarely pointed out that when comparing the same number of people (non indigenous vs indigenous) in custody indigenous death rate is actually slightly lower, and they and pretty much all media also like to allow people to believe any deaths are of a suspicious nature, when the reality is most are of natural causes and any suspicious deaths are rare and thougly investigated.
.

You sure about those numbers champ?
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/...

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 1:57pm

Thanks Sypkan, must have cursed the thread when I said the policy discussion bit.

If the thread can go mining for preferences data and show where every party will preference before the election, that will be a major win. Imagine that - I will be able to see that my vote for the Fiscal Responsibility Party actually goes back to the major Brawndo Economics Party: it's got Electrolytes.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:04pm

Solitude: I think Indo Dreaming has a George Castanza attitude to truth telling.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:09pm
zenagain wrote:

Again, a complicit media ramming home the extremes without even entertaining the thought that maybe, just maybe there are people out there that have genuine concerns about a hurriedly drafted piece of legislation that can have severe ramifications down the track.

And when you think about it logically it's no surprise everyday people might have genuine concerns or are skeptical about giving anymore power to any government be it state or federal.

If before Covid anyone had suggested people would one day be prevented from traveling intentionally, interstate, or a few kilometres from their home people, or even be told to stay home unless exercising or essential activity's and you couldnt visit friends of family or go fishing or play golf and in some cases not even be allowed to go to work and if you did you could face fines or even worst.

We would all just laugh and say, your crazy that could never happen we dont live in North Korea.

But it happened, to call anyone extremist because they are opposed to changes that make this easier to happen or shifts power is crazy.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:11pm

Queensland Deputy leader Steven Miles has a touch of Paul Keating about him. And he didn't miss...
"He is so desperate to claw together a coalition of anti-vaxxers for his own political benefit.

"[The new venue vaccination rules] do not deserve to be undermined by a PM more interested in currying favour with coffee baron donors and lunatic backbenchers than the health and the jobs of Queenslanders."

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:13pm

>

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:32pm
Solitude wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Few examples

Aboriginal deaths in custody, often discussed but very rarely pointed out that when comparing the same number of people (non indigenous vs indigenous) in custody indigenous death rate is actually slightly lower, and they and pretty much all media also like to allow people to believe any deaths are of a suspicious nature, when the reality is most are of natural causes and any suspicious deaths are rare and thougly investigated.
.

You sure about those numbers champ?
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/...

Yes I am Champ

Because im basing it off facts and figures and articles based on official finding and figures.

NOT some crapy bias Guardian article that tries it's best to twist things to give their left leaning audience what they want to hear.

FACTS ARE

The royal commission in 1987 when comparing the same amount of people in custody indigenous and non indigenous found not only were deaths rates not higher in Indigenous people in custody, but surprising slightly lower.

This pattern has continued.

There is plenty of articles on the topic

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/its-time-australia-told-the-...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:33pm

"Again, a complicit media ramming home the extremes without even entertaining the thought that maybe, just maybe there are people out there that have genuine concerns about a hurriedly drafted piece of legislation that can have severe ramifications down the track."

Well, you might have the excuse of distance but in reality the legislation was extensively debated in every media outlet I saw with most opinion pieces calling for amendments along the lines of those that have been made.......but any excuse to bash the msm eh?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:36pm

So Indo, how about letting go of the cherry picking and obfuscation and publish the causes of death of the non-indigenous prisoners and then publish the incarceration rates for indigenous vs non-indigenous. Then compare the sentences for indigenous vs non-indigenous for the same offences.

gragagan's picture
gragagan's picture
gragagan Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:38pm

Any excuse to bash a labour gov. Just like our dickhead of a pm, currently supporting vic protests while having a go at the vic gov. He's also having a go at the Qld gov for their re-opening plans.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 2:43pm
blindboy wrote:

So Indo, how about letting go of the cherry picking and obfuscation and publish the causes of death of the non-indigenous prisoners and then publish the incarceration rates for indigenous vs non-indigenous. Then compare the sentences for indigenous vs non-indigenous for the same offences.

That would be virtually impossible to do, even if you compared the raw data such as crime = sentence.

That's just one small aspect, two people can be charged with something and receive different sentences based on details of the crime and also the persons criminal history, id expect other factors too.

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:00pm
indo-dreaming][quote=Solitude wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

-in-custody

Yes I am Champ

Because im basing it off facts and figures and articles based on official finding and figures.

NOT some crapy bias Guardian article that tries it's best to twist things to give their left leaning audience what they want to hear.

FACTS ARE

The royal commission in 1987 when comparing the same amount of people in custody indigenous and non indigenous found not only were deaths rates not higher in Indigenous people in custody, but surprising slightly lower.

This pattern has continued.

There is plenty of articles on the topic

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/its-time-australia-told-the-...

Look mate, I do apologise for the condescension, that’s not usually my style and I do stand corrected if I’m wrong.

I just couldn’t really believe that what you were saying could be right. Hence, quick google and came across that article. I’d have to look into it more.

This is the thing about research and statistics I suppose we can pick and choose what story we want to tell.

I guess at the end of the day depends of what your point was? Are you trying to say that indigenous and non indigenous prisoners / offenders are on equal footing?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:12pm

No, It was in response to Vic pointing out the coverage of nooses, lynch mobs, a call to arms etc. but failing to address in any great detail the impact the legislation may have on people in the future, especially in regards to huge fines and even jail. And again, painting people as nutjobs, extremists or grifters simply because they are reluctant to relinquish their increasingly diluted rights without question is a bit of a stretch imo.

Two things, why wouldn't I question the MSM? That's the source of the majority of my news. Second, just because I don't live in Australia does that preclude me from having an opinion does it? I have many many friends and relatives back home and many who live in Victoria, I am quite concerned as an 'outsider' looking in just how Australia is approaching the pandemic.

Yesterday, less than 150 cases nationwide in a country of 125 million. No lockdowns. Help me understand the necessity of these new laws?

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:17pm

Was someone on here after preference flows? Here's what was what in the last Fed election.

Scroll down the bottom for all parties.

https://antonygreen.com.au/preference-flows-at-the-2019-federal-election/

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:41pm
Solitude][quote=indo-dreaming wrote:
Solitude wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

-in-custody

Yes I am Champ

Because im basing it off facts and figures and articles based on official finding and figures.

NOT some crapy bias Guardian article that tries it's best to twist things to give their left leaning audience what they want to hear.

FACTS ARE

The royal commission in 1987 when comparing the same amount of people in custody indigenous and non indigenous found not only were deaths rates not higher in Indigenous people in custody, but surprising slightly lower.

This pattern has continued.

There is plenty of articles on the topic

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/its-time-australia-told-the-...

Look mate, I do apologise for the condescension, that’s not usually my style and I do stand corrected if I’m wrong.

I just couldn’t really believe that what you were saying could be right. Hence, quick google and came across that article. I’d have to look into it more.

This is the thing about research and statistics I suppose we can pick and choose what story we want to tell.

I guess at the end of the day depends of what your point was? Are you trying to say that indigenous and non indigenous prisoners / offenders are on equal footing?

My original post was about ABC sometimes misleading us, its something we expect from private media as they are always going you have their bias and things they play up for clicks or engage or enrage their audience demographic.

But as a tax payer funded organisation i think they should be as free as possible from this or atleast give us both arguments.

In regard to being on equal footing id expect how most prison guards would treat a prisoner would depend mostly on the behaviour of the prisoner if they were trouble makers and smart arses to guards id expect they would get treated worse than those prisoners who corporate and don't cause issues, in regard to getting treated differently based on ethnicity or skin colour id expect this wouldn't be in the minds of most prison guards, id expect the crimes people are in for and known cases would be more of a factor...for instance rapist, wife bashers, pedophiles etc would be on a lower footing.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:40pm

"Help me understand the necessity of these new laws?"
Zen, the current state of emergency laws end mid December and the Pandemic Bill was designed to replace those laws, so that in the event of a Covid resurgence or another pandemic, there's a legal framework to implement necessary measures to protect Victorians.
The crybabies in the street didn't like the old laws and wanted politicians to make key decisions rather than the CHO. You'd think they'd be happy about the new bill, but nooooo, these people have been fed a load of BS, and they think the sky will fall if it passes.
Yes you can argue about checks and balances, but that's not what most protesters want. They want to "kill the bill". This would make it extremely difficult, most likely impossible, for the Victorian government to introduce sensible health measures during a pandemic.
Nothing is not an option, and that's precisely what the mob want. Imagine a situation where the government can't order a covid positive person to isolate. Imagine a situation where covid cases increase rapidly in specific areas and the govt can't issue stay at home orders. That's what we are looking at here.
Ignorance has been weaponised by the LNP and the tabloid media in this situation..
The funny thing is, there must be a nagging sense in the minds of the LNP politicians. If the state of emergency laws don't get replaced and the LNP win the next state election, they will inherit the shitshow they created. They may even negotiate something before the end of the year to get a legal framework in place, but I doubt it, they thrive on chaos.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:57pm
Solitude][quote=indo-dreaming wrote:
Solitude wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

-in-custody

Yes I am Champ

Because im basing it off facts and figures and articles based on official finding and figures.

NOT some crapy bias Guardian article that tries it's best to twist things to give their left leaning audience what they want to hear.

FACTS ARE

The royal commission in 1987 when comparing the same amount of people in custody indigenous and non indigenous found not only were deaths rates not higher in Indigenous people in custody, but surprising slightly lower.

This pattern has continued.

There is plenty of articles on the topic

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/its-time-australia-told-the-...

Look mate, I do apologise for the condescension, that’s not usually my style and I do stand corrected if I’m wrong.

I just couldn’t really believe that what you were saying could be right. Hence, quick google and came across that article. I’d have to look into it more.

This is the thing about research and statistics I suppose we can pick and choose what story we want to tell.

I guess at the end of the day depends of what your point was? Are you trying to say that indigenous and non indigenous prisoners / offenders are on equal footing?

very big of you...

that response (and I mean it)

prepare yourself, the bullshit has been running thick and fast on this one, you won't be the first person surprised in what you find...

Patrick0710's picture
Patrick0710's picture
Patrick0710 Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 3:58pm

Human Right Law Centre today:

“The pandemic isn’t over and governments around the country are still relying on public health and emergency powers to help manage it. The new bill isn’t perfect but it’s a big improvement on the existing law. There are some new human rights and transparency safeguards in there that aren’t in the laws in other states, like an express requirement that all decisions and actions comply with Victoria’s Human Rights Charter.

These are the sorts of safeguards that ultimately help governments make better decisions and strike the right balance between public health and the right to life and other rights and freedoms. We do however think there should be an outer limit on how long a pandemic declaration can be extended for and stronger appeal rights for detention. But overall the new bill offers much greater transparency, oversight and human rights protections than the current law and the law in other parts of the country.”

Solitude's picture
Solitude's picture
Solitude Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 4:07pm
sypkan wrote:

very big of you...

that response (and I mean it)

prepare yourself, the bullshit has been running thick and fast on this one, you won't be the first person surprised in what you find...

Thanks mate. It’s a pretty tough and insular world to live in if we can’t go into a debate without being open to having our mind changed or be wrong.

Lesson for me, read deeper. I kind of got click baited myself (by the post).

Carry on gents i’ll stick to the lighter hearted threads.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 18 Nov 2021 at 4:19pm
Vic Local wrote:

sypkan, tell us all exactly what you dislike about the bill? And do you want it "killed" like the majority of the mob?
And if you do want it killed, what exactly do you want to replace the current state of emergency laws with that expire in mid December? The situation in Europe proves this pandemic isn't over and governments still need to introduce laws to protect the health of their citizens.
Here's where the rubber hits the road. The mob in the streets have no solutions. All they have is anger, gallows, the willingness to harm politicians, and a sense of connection with the other nutters marching beside them.
I'd be happy to give them some credit if they genuinely wanted to contribute to the debate and offer solutions other than Dan "dancing on the end of a rope". Until they do this, that mob can take their Trump rubbish and fuck off somewhere dark and dingy. And to the politicians encouraging and condoning this bullshit, they deserve to be wiped out at the ballot box.

mate I dislike you, and the bullshit you peddle...

if a significant number of lawyers from the bar in victoria think there is a problem with the bill - as is the case - then... there's a problem with the bill... simple as that...

no amount of your toxic attempts to delegitimise people's legitimate concerns will change that, so grow up, turn down the constant toxicity, and accept it...

yes there's a heap of crew in the street for a heap of different reasons, complete with a minority of nutters, but again, that doesn't 'cancel' out fair concerns from reasonable people... dsspite your best and most desperate of floundering efforts to do so...

maybe if dickhead dan didn't fuck up so much (not to mention be embroiled in a corruption scandal, ...one you vehemently outright denied just months ago... in more toxic lies and bullshit...) then there wouldn't be so many people pissed off !!

I saw two lovely old chooks get interviewed yesterday, and they had fair concerns, very fair...

they may or may not have had concealed swastika tattoos... but I don't really care...

the vicco government is a bloody shambles, and an absolute disgrace, on so many fronts... literally the only thing saving them is a no clue opposition...

that does not make labor good! ...it just deepens the shit pile...