Submitted by Supafreak on Sun, 08/02/2020 - 15:15
Just watched the press release from Dan Andrews and I really feel for how victorians are going to once again pay for others stupidity. Not sure how they are going to police the 1 hour exercise policy but a trip down the coast for a surf could be costly. I understand these new restrictions are mainly Melbourne suburbs and I’m very grateful for where I live NSW Qld border. When we were in shutdown there was no time limit for our exercise thank god as a 3 hour surf kept me sane after losing my job.
The real data.
Tend to agree with you there goofyfoot - never been much of an Abbott fan but hard to ignore that at some stage very soon people are going to need to make some of their own decisions on what activities (within reason, so a packed MCG/music festival/pub etc probably isn't one just yet) they undertake, knowing full well the health risks that poses.
Those in full support of the lockdowns can continue to lock themselves down and they'll be at very little risk of catching this thing.
We had always spoken about flattening the curve, reducing the load on our health system etc.. Well once again after a big spike, the curve has been smashed down and will keep going down these next 2 weeks. After that, time to seriously look at how we live with the virus.
Unfortunately I just have no faith in our Vic government and DHHS going on their track record, in particular contract tracing, to manage this virus as the other states have. They have shown themselves to be inept.
And before VicLocal comes charging in and teeing off at the federal government to deflect from the state government, the feds have also got blood on their hands with their inept handling of aged care, and how Richard Colbeck still has a job is a disgrace.
See that wasn't so hard was it, you can be critical of a labor government and a liberal government at the same time.
".....very soon people are going to need to make some of their own decisions on what activities (within reason, so a packed MCG/music festival/pub etc probably isn't one just yet) they undertake, knowing full well the health risks that poses."
To them individually perhaps but you cannot ignore the fact that they then go out into the community and spread the infection they picked up and so increase the rate of transmission in the wider community.
It's not the death rate that is concerning to me - it's the ongoing issues for people that have had it. There doesn't seem to be much info on that, but there is a study from Italy that looks a bit grim. This is from people that were admitted to hospital, so not sure how that compares to normal stat's for people admitted to hospital with the flu.
"Patients were assessed a mean of 60.3 (SD, 13.6) days after onset of the first COVID-19 symptom; at the time of the evaluation, only 18 (12.6%) were completely free of any COVID-19–related symptom, while 32% had 1 or 2 symptoms and 55% had 3 or more. None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness. Worsened quality of life was observed among 44.1% of patients. The Figure shows that a high proportion of individuals still reported fatigue (53.1%), dyspnea (43.4%), joint pain, (27.3%) and chest pain (21.7%)."
blowfly - that's why I said that those that are truly worried about catching it and in full support of the lockdowns can continue to lock themselves down for 23 hours a day and only leave for essential items, taking all necessary precautions.
We're not there yet, our cases in Vic are still too high, but if/when do get down to between 0-20 cases a day then it's time to start opening up like other states have.
Dx3, it's not that easy so I will go with what as worked so far in bringing the infection rate down. I think everyone is sympathetic and appreciative of what Victorians have achieved so far as without the restrictions they have endured it is highly likely there would be greater rastes of infection nationwide.
"The real data."
They're forign countries. DSDS posted Aus stats from Gov website.
How do you see society going forward? Constant lockdowns evereytime there's a spike? Do you factor in further repecussions from unemployment & social isolation, etc.
I just want to know how much longer I'll need to wrap a piece of cloth (or a disposable, micro plastic single use mask) when I go take my kids and dog for a walk in the park. Can kind of get where the nutbag anti maskers are coming from - it doesn't feel healthy (mentally or physically), particularly when I want to get out, breather fresh air, feel the wind on my face and even get sunlight!
Masks indoors in crowded areas - yes makes sense - masks outdoors (and being fined by the police state for not wearing one) - ridiculous over step.
Why are dudes stats not “real”?
Stok, I sit my mask around my chin when I'm outdoors and not within 30m+ of others, which is quite often. Slip it back up when people get closer. Like you, breathing clean air not through a mask when outdoors is needed for my sanity.
Totally agree mate.
I live in a country where mask wearing was commonplace even before the pandemic and here 99％ of people wear masks indoors but a great many people don't wear them outside (including me).
Commonsense would dictate that if you're in close proximity to other people wear a mask or face covering but if you're out in the fresh air, reasonably spaced apart I think mandatory enforcement and penalising people for non-compliance is overreaching.
I am so fed up with corona, when will this farking madness end.
DX3 - I generally do the same. I did once get stopped by the police whilst doing that (and being well away from other people) when skateboarding of all things - they weren't too happy with me not wearing it and frankly I wasn't interested in arguing so I just said sure I'll put it on.
Zen - I've spent a lot of time in Taiwan - so can relate to the common place sentiment pre-Covid. It was crazy in Melbourne watching the evolution of mask wearing....I hope it doesn't stick and as soon as the restrictions ease people [email protected]#k them off.
As to when this madness will end....years maybe? What's becoming clearer and clearer to me is this will be a generational thing - there's a good chance things may never go back to what we remember them as.
That's a given Stok. This has altered the course of history.
Whilst skateboarding, seriously!? Couldn't it be argued that skating like bike riding & jogging is exercise? I skate around my local streets without a mask on, not on the footpath so away from anyone walking.
It's the lack of common sense in the rules that really get me, and they bang on about letting "the science, the data" guide them when clearly it doesn't in many instances.
There is no difference between my data and BB’s data , just the way it is presented. BB’s data doesn’t differentiate between someone aged 66 and someone aged 106. It shows no reference to the serious co- morbidities which are present in the vast , vast majority of COVID-19 deaths.
It pays to remain vigilant when data is presented in such a disingenuous manner . Particularly when the argument is made by an elderly bloke who has no real compromise imposed on his freedom whilst teenagers , kids and healthy adults are under 23 hour house arrest and curfew .
Unjustified Authoritarianism is still a nightmare regardless of how measured the tone of those imposing it.
Zen when you say it like that it really makes you stop and think.
Yep DX3, while skating. It happened at the start of mask wearing rules, right around the time of those viral social media videos of people arguing in Bunnings etc.
I was skating on a side road, cops drove past, did a U-Turn, 'pulled me over', asked why I wasn't wearing my mask and if I could put one on - I said I was exercising a feeling hot/sweaty - they said do you have any other good reasons - I said no that was it, but I can put it on if they want - they asked for my name etc. and did a check on my details before letting me go. I probably could've said no I'm not wearing it, this is exercise, but I kind of felt for them, didn't want to make it seem like I was being too unnecessarily antagonistic.
Keep it in your pocket, put it on if you start walking, but whilst skating it's not needed. Makes sense according to the rules they have set so would have been interesting if you said you'll only wear it once you stop skating. Glad to hear at least they didn't fine you on that occasion
This is outa control .
Hahahahahahaha. You and the RWNJ wife-bashing angry midget.
But of course!
factotum, I don't click blowin's links but given your description, can I assume it goes to some crap by Ari the wife basher?
other than blowin, Who falls for his drivel?
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
I don't mid Avi but i don't agree with him here.
It might seem over the top but seems the women has organised a lockdown protest, if that's the case good on them for arresting her and make an example of her, nip these looney lockdown protest in the bud, people need to take responsibility for their actions, cops have enough crap too deal with without adding shutting down lockdown protest to the list.
No one is having fun in lockdown but it is what it is, just deal with it for a few weeks so we can reduce infection numbers and try to get back to normality.
Hahahahahahaha, Vic...guess who?
Ya couldn't script it!
The Oz brothers are on fire!
Right with you there Indo, except the Avi stuff, find him pretty damn off putting.
Has anyone seen the fb post in reference?
Was also just on the news on TV.
"Those in full support of the lockdowns can continue to lock themselves down and they'll be at very little risk of catching this thing."
Kind of, unless they have contact points in environments of elevated risk they can't avoid, like cancer treatment for example. This would present as quite a risky trip if widespread community transmission gets going again.
"We had always spoken about flattening the curve, reducing the load on our health system etc.. Well once again after a big spike, the curve has been smashed down and will keep going down these next 2 weeks. After that, time to seriously look at how we live with the virus.
Unfortunately I just have no faith in our Vic government and DHHS going on their track record, in particular contract tracing, to manage this virus as the other states have. They have shown themselves to be inept."
For my condition, if those who don't care just let it rip and DHHS can't contact trace and manage it well, then I'll ask nicely for medivac to WA lol. Do you think the other states will open their borders or close them to a reinfected Victoria in this situation?
VJ I didn’t mean to be disrespectful to people in your position by posting that Abbott speech, I’m aware the situation is different for everyone, I am just feeling it getting on top of myself and many people I know. Just want it to be over.
Hope you’re travelling ok
VJ - I'm by no means advocating to let it rip. We gotta do what we gotta do now to get these numbers right down to a manageable number to contract trace, and also ensure the last 8-9 wks and what will be 10 weeks come Sept 13 of more lockdown pain (stage 3 &4) have been worth the effort. I can clearly see now that stage 4 will be extended for another couple of weeks past Sept 13 and I can actually cop that. It's also why I have absolutely no time for anyone considering protesting this far into our efforts to get the numbers down.
But when they do get the numbers down below 20, the unknown cases down too, then we gotta ditch the curfew, the 5km limit, the 1 hour outdoors limit, the business restrictions on people being able to earn a crust - they have to go. But for those that are vulnerable, I'd be strongly suggesting they continue to limit their potential exposure and keeping themselves somewhat locked down harder to protect themselves.
If we get the numbers low and the DHHS have sorted their shit out with contract tracing, then we won't be 'letting it rip'. We'll be learning to live with it, again as I said like every other state in this country.
Sheesh that video is borderline martyrdom.
Personally I think protesting is a universal right - pandemic, war, fucking asteroid hitting the earth whatever - banning protesting and arresting organisers is pretty screwed. Would I protest now - hell no....would I advocate it....hell no! I'd actively discourage people to do it! But, far out, to think we're doing this is embarrassing, and actually counter productive.
I can only see this fueling the fire, furthering the divide. Pregnant, white, mum, battler, good bloke husband only trying to help....the ingredients are there.
Would've been much smarter to work with the protesters...maybe give them PPE, a covid test on site, agree a safe set of rules with them, and give them a safe space to do it.
These people are not the majority, and giving this sort of press only makes their cries for attention louder.
Also - shame on the Government for not foreseeing this, and addressing it earlier. This is a cost of lockdowns - civil unrest and mental health issues leading to potentially dangerous protests. you can't just unload a bunch of laws to the newly unemployed and expect them to sit happily and take it.
Apparently this is what she posted on FB:
"I don't mid Avi but i don't agree with him here."
Thinking anything to with this guy is alright should be enough to exclude you from participating in any reasonable discourse.
couldn't agree more, Avi is a complete and utter moron. Every post and video of his incites the current situation a hell of a lot more than that silly girls's fb post
Hey Goofy and Dx3, yep traveling OK here. I can understand it getting on top of people, the idea that you can't go out and restrictions over who/what can be done is tough. I have to weigh that up with my view we are facing a pandemic, and it is real and not a hoax. If we can get the numbers right down (113 today, 58 being investigated) then I absolutely agree things should open up in a way that can be measured, and provides people the optimism that this will eventually be over. If we open up early, or stuff up the opening, then it goes back to those 700 cases per day etc, and I don't think most of us want that. With the numbers decreasing, I don't understand the increased pressure to protest, but they are entitled to their opinion.
Here's a take on what it does I found today:
It's been a weird year, right down to the weather. Open question to everyone, do you have any hobbies? I've kept myself sane and happy building things inside, things that I wouldn't have finished. Or got on top of paperwork. There have been medical visits that were a little on edge, but OK. Now we do live close to the ocean but that was a choice made years ago when I got sick/diagnosed, and traded career for slowing down and trying to heal. It's meant some walks and surfs trying very hard to be out alone or with very little exposure. That will probably continue, but be difficult when everyone gets a turn as things open up. Nothing is impossible, though.
VJ - To your question on hobbies - I've got very young kids and a really understanding wife that knows my hobby, my outlet, was going for a surf. Whether that is down the coast (any coast - SC, the island, MP), sometimes taking the family for a day trip or overnighters, or heading off to the pool for a city wave.
So for me, I'm either surfing or hanging with the family, maybe catching up with mates for a beer in the evenings. Also love swimming, but that's gone too. Don't mind jogging but it's pretty fucking boring, but have had to deal with it. Have a skate every now and then but the old body can't do what it used to there. Aside from that nothing really that I would call a hobby. So working all week in the bedroom which I'm thankful I can still do and get paid, really starting to drag that my only outlet now is walking the streets on the weekend. Just feels like life is wasting a way sometimes, if it wasn't for the kids I think I'd have completely lost my mind by now.
Avi's best work is when he goes out on the streets and exposes the craziness of social justice warriors etc, a lot of it is absolute gold, yeah its edited but its not two second edits he lets people speak for minutes on end without cutting the camera.
This whole current environment doesn't work in his favour though, he is pretty much clinging to anything to make videos at the moment.
I get that he has haters though especially on the left, he wouldn't be doing his job very well if he didn't get under peoples skin and have haters.
His haters include his own brother who sued him for defamation, and his ex-wife, cos you know, he assaulted her. Avi also called himself a "Jewish Nazi. So, there's that. Also "doing his job"? What's his job? Semi-professional right wing shitheel and half arsed youtuber? Fuck outta here.
Plus it's pretty easy to make a few people look a little foolish if you record enough interviews and edit it just so. I think more telling are the comments on his youtube videos from people who agree with him. Half (if that) brained morons the lot of 'em.
Ha ha you cant be serious Facto has another new profile WTF?
BTW. Obviously Avi was taking the piss when he said "I'm the worlds proudest Jewish Nazi" https://twitter.com/ozraeliavi/status/1138566000176013312
Dx3 mate pretty much match your situation exactly.
Two very young little ones, surfing and swimming were my exercise (and kitesurfing, which I stopped since childcare stopped - no time!). Although I've been working in my living room with mixed results (kids seem to have a 6th sense for when you click un-mute in a Zoom meeting - and scream).
I don't really have time for and hobbies at home, the free time I do get I want to get out and about - which for me has been skating. re-learnt to kickflip which has been fun and am hoping to keep it up after lockdown.
Still am sorely missing the upper body exercise from surfing/swimming...which sucks. In 2019 I was pretty fit, bought a 7'4'' board and was trying my hand in some of the juicier stuff. After having our second daughter I knew I'd slow down a bit but always thought I could maintain my fitness with swimming and surfing (less)....but yeah Covid has really steamrolled my upper body fitness and I'd be a little hesitant paddling out past the button on a 6ft+ day with a bit of sweep.
I'm not locked at home but my movement is restricted so basically satisfying my work commitments and that's it. Not doing much surfing but still trying to get out and exercise each day.
Having said that- I've become a DIY fool. I've achieved so much around here in the last few months I've surprised myself. Replaced my deck- should have it knocked over by Sunday lunchtime.
Stok - fuck man, we sound like the same person, should grab a surf and a beer when this is all done!
For sure Dx3! Not long now hopefully....
"Ha ha you cant be serious Facto has another new profile WTF?"
I suppose it would be easier thinking that you were going back and forth with the same people, than realise there's other people reading these threads shaking their heads at the garbage you come up with,
Sir Joh would be proud of Victoria. Arresting a former soldier, someone who volunteered to defend our freedom.
careful posting the brown man 'white supremecist' videos sheepdog, setting yourself up for character assasinations there...
all that aside, those vids are pretty disturbing, preggas bogan mum was ugly, soldier boy submitting but being 'roughhoused' uglier
not a good look
wuhan surveillance state here we are
...and all without a remotely functioning tech. contact tracer mechanism, ...wtf is all that about? ...priorities? ...strange times indeed, ...in our little western 'liberal' democracy...
More Avi Yemini shite. FFS people, this bloke is a grifter. He makes money out of idiots who believe that he's some freedom fighting journo.
The only thing good about Avi is his brother and father, two outstanding people, who have disowned to poisonous little wife bashing shithead.