Submitted by Pops on Thu, 12/17/2020 - 09:57
Yeah, I can agree with most of that. As much as some in the media have bagged Pujara, we could really do with someone in his mold to play that anchor role.
R.e. Warner, (playing devil's advocate here, I agree that he shouldn't have been invited back after the ball tampering incident) who do you drop him for? No-one else they've tried (Pucovski aside, who I see coming back in for Harris) has really grabbed the opportunity... Maybe Khawaja could get another go?
He who hesitates is lost
I'm not cheap,
But I'm free.
Yeah Pops maybe Khawaja...no one is standing out that's for sure, but at Warners numbers and what I believe is the negative effect he has on the playing group attitude wise, anyone should either be given another chance or blooded for future development. You just have to look at the example of Gill for India, he was outstanding and looks a real prospect.
Well done India, that was a magnificent achievement. Watching the final session very much became like a cliffhanger one day international.
Going into the test I was surprised that a chasing India was not collapsing on the last day with a deteriorating wicket, and I had a feeling they could chase down the score in these last two tests.
They are a class act, and the young players show great promise, Gill was great to watch.
For Australia, it's a profound loss on home soil, but hopefully it'll steel the resolve and make Australia-India test series as important as the Ashes. At times during the tests I was really impressed with how our team has come on, and the series was great competition the whole way through.
Pretty crazy hey. We managed to beat their A team, albeit on the back of the all out 36 aberration. Got beat by their 2nd string team at Melbourne. Couldn't roll their 3rd string team and grovelled to a draw in Sydney. Then lost to their 4th string team at our stronghold, the Gabba. Get that India!
Probably the best series I've watched apart from the 2005 Ashes and India’s win here will be hard to beat. Given the context - a glut of injuries, a stand-in captain and asked to resurrect themselves having been beaten in the opening Test and bowled out for their lowest score of 36. How calm is Rahane? Totally different to Kohli, cool as a cucumber and probably exactly what his team needed given the situation.
Where do Australia go from here? Paine and Langer are joined at the hip so there seems little chance of change but the Australian captain led poorly this series. 'Can't wait to get you to the Gabba' he said to Ashwin in Sydney. “Good evening from Gabba!” tweeted Ashwin, tagging Paine into his tweet. Maybe if Paine concentrated of catching the ball, out smarting his opponents and dropped the arrogance his team would fair better.
Warner is a question mark, probably shouldn't be playing at all but who comes in to replace him? He's on the wane which puts more pressure on Marnus Labuschagne and Steve Smith. Suddenly Australia's batting looks flaky. The quicks seemed to run out ideas, become drained and that is worrying, particularly if Lyon is underperforming, it leaves them exposed.
The most worrying aspect though is the lack of depth. India showed they can find diamonds in their squad and they have more waiting in the wings. Shouldn't be surprising for a country the size of India where cricket is so popular. But where and to who do Australia look for stars of the future?
Why is it that the all-time classic series seem to be the ones we lose!
Stars of the future - Pucovski and Green are bankers for mine. Jhye Richardson a bit older but very talented. Cummins still young enough, as is Labuschagne. Not seeing to many others to back them up though... Young fella Doran was getting some hype a while back, but haven't seen or heard of him for a while... anyone else?
Coming from a NZ fan's perspective I was pretty neutral with my support at the start of this series. After all that carry on with Tim Paine VS Ashwin I was firmly in the India camp. Australians are generally very likeable people so why is it that the Australian Cricket team has to sink to such depths of fucktardness? I reckon they should take a leaf out of NZs book and concentrate on playing hard and competitive cricket while leaving the sledging and personal attacks out. It's not the 1970s any more aye. As far as I can tell Australia have a team that's good enough to beat anybody, so why resort to such childish and underhanded tactics?
Brought up playing the game, played competitively for years, followed it eagerly for long afterwards, but gave up on Australia after Ponting's captaincy. Think it was the Indian tour of 2007/08 when they carried on like pork chops: haranguing the stranded batsman at the end of the deciding test, ignoring the opponents when presented trophies etc.
Found it hard to cheer on a team who were even less gracious in winning than they were in losing.
Bunch of underwear models exploiting Australia's 'hard but fair' sporting reputation to carry on like prima donnas.
It's pretty deeply entrenched from under-age club cricket up. It'd have to take a long period of effort to change that culture.
Yeah, some pretty poor incidents around that time Stu. Pushing that fella off the podium when receiving the world cup trophy another one that comes to mind.
Same for me too. I feel fortunate to have played when the true spirit of the game was still present. Ironically it’s when Australia achieved its greatest results through that Warne McGrath Hayden Langer et al era that they became the poorest representation of what the game is all about.
I can barely believe I’m saying this, but a part of me enjoys watching them lose these days.
I agree in regard to the straight out arrogance that existed in the Aussie team up to that SA tour debacle. Can't remember exactly what series it was just prior to, possibly a recent Ashes series, when Nathan Lyon stated in a press conference "that we're going to end some careers during this series" (or similar). Fark me. Genuine elite sports people want to test themselves against the best. Just shut up and let your bowling do the talking.
I think it's a bit harsh to completely unload on Paine though. For sure he had two shockers in this series (with gloves and his mouth) but had done a pretty good job since taking over in the worst of circumstances IMO. He immediately fronted up after the Sydney Test and owned it. The true test for Paine and the rest of the squad will be how they respond going forward. Calls for his resignation are ridiculous and such calls are generally made by fans that are sore losers. Most agree that it was a great Test series. It takes two good teams to tango to make a great series.
100% agree that the Aussie team should look no further than the NZ team for how to go about it. They set the bar in all respects with daylight second.....
I think it is a bit harsh on the Aussies. Yes their apparent arrogance and behavior can be a overbearing at times, but the Indians and Poms have been guilty of it and can match it with them in that department. The culture of confidence and dominance is fairly drummed into them from what I can see. Unfortunately that starts to become all consuming for them.
As for the future up and coming, there is plenty of talent to choose from but in my opinion, they don't give them enough of a chance. They give them a few games to prove themselves and if they don't, they're out. Not enough chance and exposure in the top grade to grow. Whereas the BBL (yes a different format) have some fantastic up and comers that are showing their potential. If the selectors spent some time and effort in some of these youngsters in development, we may see some real depth starting to emerge.
I agree that India and England have their moments, but it seems to me that it's often when they're playing Australia. I think it's a "can't beat 'em join 'em" thing. Virat Kohli in particular has raised a few eyebrows from time to time, but from where I'm sitting it's usually an outpouring of emotion rather than anything particularly nasty.
Good point Fitz 21...but I think that’s one of the major issues. A lot of the talented young cricketers are going the T20 development route and targeting financial returns from the rich overseas leagues and forgoing the long haul/smaller return/higher risk of playing test cricket.
You've all said basically how I feel about the times, and the cultures behind some of the iconic teams. It started in school, the great athletes could do no wrong, there were no rules for them, the arrogance was startling. Those playing who couldn't make the grade of the suddenly-imported stars, got relegated to 2nd or 3rd XVIII and far less training resources. Didn't matter if they lost - only the winning level new Firsts team mattered. The school basked in the glory. Being told you could do no wrong, things were pushed and I believe this has led to some of the sad outcomes for some of the athletes that I knew. This was within a culture of pushing things eg drink/drugs/putting others down that existed anyway. It was acidic. I speak from more of a footy background, but cricket probably the same.
It almost makes you go for the other country's team: but then you realise these players may have similar attitudes.
Good comment Rabbits, pretty much my thoughts too. Paine didn't have the best series as a captain, but didn't do that bad overall and contributed at important times with the bat.
The thing I like about him though, and the thing I reckon a lot of people are forgetting, is that he took over at possibly the lowest moment in the history of Australian cricket and, up until a few moments in this series, has lead the team's recovery. I just think that should be recognised and rewarded.
But I agree that the entitled, win at all costs attitude is embarrassing and ugly.
On the team itself, I do think some changes are needed. Wade, in my opinion, is not a Test player. Starc can be brilliant, but he seems to be losing the consistency. I wouldn't drop Lyon, but how long has he got left, and who is next in line?
Impressed with Pucovski and Green.
I like Richardson as a bolwer, reckon he would have been thereabouts if he didn't get injured.
And well done India. Thoroughly well deserved win, only disappointed the series is over.
Wonder where it all went wrong for Matthew Renshaw? He looked the goods very early on. Still young enough to come good I suppose.
Paine was brought in, not for his cricket ability, but for his ability to improve the team's culture. Now that he has been exposed as the worst exponent of the team's bad culture, he has to go.
Another problem is that Cricket Australia, rather than focusing on cricket, wants to appease every minority it thinks has been offended in Australia's history. It appears to think that smoking ceremonies, aboriginal shirt emblems/designs, taking the knee, etc is what cricket supporters want - give me a break. Please leave the social engineering to the ABC.
Rabbits.... I do recall reading somewhere (no, I don't know where) that he doesn't mind a sledge. Not writing him off forever, but I'm not sure if he's the guy you want right now given that's true. Also, I don't think he produced when he got his chance.
If recent history has confirmed one
thing, it's the a lack depth that might be the problem going forward.
Agree the next best batsmen is Will Pucovski. Then Travis Head, Moses Henriques? There aren't really enough quality young batsmen in Australia who play 4 day cricket, the long form of the game is being sidelined at the detriment to the Test side.
Renshaw is focusing on the Big Bash as are Peter Handscomb, Joe Burns and the Marsh brothers. Its a bit of a worry looking ahead. Ashes later this year with England warming up in Sri Lanka then away and home tests against India. England have a strong squad, they could afford to rest Stokes and Archer in the first test and still won at a canter albeit after a poor start from Sri Lanka. Some new faces around the team as well. Given India's result here its going to be an interesting year for test cricket.
Lillee caught Willey bowled Dilley.
From an Ashes series in the 80's.
You can't script that!
2 for 222
"There's Neil Harvey standing at leg slip with his legs wide apart, waiting for a tickle"
"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey"
Peter Handscomb defending Tim Paine? What relevance does he have to the debate? Another sure sign that CA has no idea. Their snub to Australia Day will no doubt be a real winner with ordinary Aussies too, as will barefoot circles and the like.
What Australia need now is an inspirational captain like Alan Border. He took over when the team was at a low ebb due to World Series Cricket and the retirement of Lillie, Tommo and the Chappells. By the time he finished up Australia were world beaters. Basically he laid the groundwork for Steve Waugh and Ponting. A man who led the team by his own hard as nails example. Widely respected in world cricket.
That ilk are a bit thin on the ground unfortunately. I think the board were hoping Pain would be the nearest thing.
I wonder if Border would have had the same impact now too... took him (and Bob Simpson who has at least as important) a long time to turn things around. We lost a fair bit more than he won in the first half of his captaincy (he's not at all to blame for that - only world-class player in a bad side), but I do wonder if he'd be met with the same patience now.
I went along to the Brisbane test. It was goodtimes (@ the Gabba! I still hear her say).
The Indian team did well, though not sure they deserve the heaping praise they're getting. I'd say they won just as much as Australia's batsmen lost it for themselves. Talk about a bunch of wet paper towels.
If I could dictate one change at CA, it would be that if you are selected for a test side, and as long as the team docs deem you fit to play, you stay in the team for that entire series, regardless of how you're performing. It's so obvious that this kind of Sword of Damocles hanging over players heads is contributing to the yips.
If a bloke underperforms in the first innings or test, and all the chat is about "ooooh he better back that up with a ton next test or he should be kicked out!!" ya reckon he won't have that fogging up his mind? I imagine many would bounce back much better because they wouldn't be fretting over making it up. They'd just play their own game, in their own time. Not only that, it'd shut a lot of the flogs in the peanut gallery up too, who get paid far too much to word vomit and speculate about nothing.
I agree. Having faith in the players is important. I remember Mark Taylor going through a couple of dry patches but they stuck with him. Ended his career as one of the greats.