Here you go optimist
Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...
But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!
So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like
You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...
maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here
Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain
All the best...brother
PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!
Blowin, "If you’re so sure of it all then just chill and enjoy the certainty."
True, but if l you'd really need to hate a bloke to be content to leave him on a path to eternity separated from God - hence my attempts to at least try to communicate why I believe what I do & correct misconceptions... I'm not foolish enough to think I can compel anyone to change their minds, but I hope some at least think about what I say and weigh it up impartially. If they disagree, so be it.
Forum vibe is getting a bit name-cally so I'm gonna check out... Will read through later and see if there's any genuine questions/debate.
Did enjoy Ben's urban planning joke.
Brutus, i can think of no place i would like to spend eternity with a billion other spirit things. Not the mentawais, not the best party ever and not even hanging out with God and all the old saints high on some spiritual euphoria Forever is forever. Too long. Not that fussed if i miss out.
An American, a Chinese guy and an Australian all arrive at the pearly gates together. They all agree, "nice gates". The American says, "You know, if I had worked harder I could have owned a bigger house and had really big gates like that." The Chinese guy says to him, "You know, if we could have gotten a photo and maybe the drawings, we could have made thousands of tin copies and sold them to the dumb westerners for big profit, very lucky". The Australian looks at them both and says, "If I had my ute we could pinch 'em. They'd look fucken good on the shed,""
Sorry about the meaty futuristic post. It was really only for people interested in the book of Revelation. To try and add clarity to what John saw especially Revelation chapter 13. The keys I gave can all be fact checked and I feel strongly that I am somewhere around the mark. The future will reveal all.
While I'm rolling...
A guy goes in to see his doctor saying, "Doc, you've gotta help me, I think I.m going crazy. All day long in my brain I'm constantly hearing the song 'Delilah', over and over again, non-stop it's "Why, why, why Delilah" . I can't get it to stop, you've got to help me, make it stop. What's happening to me??"
"Ah," says the doctor, "It sounds like you have Tom Jones syndrome"
"Tom Jones syndrome, what the hell is that? I've never heard of it. Is it very common?" the guy asks
"It's not unusual" the doctors replies.
Seems its already too late for many Swedes. People really are stupid sometimes.
Hanna using her dog as a role model.
Sit Hanna ! Sit !
Scary shit eh Blowin, not just the Swedes, people in Sydney are selling the same tech service to access the buildings and computers. Using fear/ terrorism for their Con job.
Anyone else care to comment on that Swedes video.?
Not for me, but sounds useful for those that are into it
When you’re tolerant of others differences, it’s not scary shit at all
One thing I've noticed with religion in particular Christians that i do think can be a good thing is prayer.
As prayer is really focusing on something to help bring about change often focusing on something visually and mentally and even speaking it out and often daily.
I think that's a real good mindset, really positive shit.
I dont personally do this, but i think even us non religious people could do a similar thing everyday focussing on some goal or something we want changed for a few minutes focusing on it and speaking it out, it would kind of almost be like a positive short meditation session..
There is probably some crazy self help book that has come up with the idea already, but i waste too much time on Swellnet forums arguing with people over stupid shit i really dont care much for to read self help books.
That said ive seen Christians that think all their problems can be prayed away without putting in real life effort to make change, i think that can be really dangerous too especially if you were sick or something and ignore some medical advice and think prayer is going it fix it instead, or this mindset anything that happens is gods will.
A very religious relative of mine used to pray for a free parking spot when driving around town. She would thank the lord when she found one and say how good he was to us for helping her. Nearby in the hospital there were probably kids dying of cancer with parents praying for a cure to no avail.
Interesting perspective on the assumed priorities and abilities of her god.
just wondering if you have any beliefs/opinions on the supernatural......is there or isnt there?
atheist/secular humanist ....do you have faith in anything?
Hi Udo...both....try and forgive , fix the wrong you have created , God has already forgiven us ......he knows our true heart!
Hi Optimist , thanx for the great reading ...and the links.....I was wondering if we would ever get to Revelations.......when people who don't understand or want to understand , get a run down of Revelations....scares the crap out of them or they will try and discredit the messenger.......to fear the Lord.....is...????
Was recently at my Aunts funeral a few weeks ago. I loved her as she was a great lady and the reason I started surfing as she used to get me away on holidays with her boys who were great surfers. My dad was a hard old bugger and hated me surfing.
Anyway, she didn't like me talking to her about Jesus and one of her daughters in law was brutal toward me as well. I knew she had no interest and then she died. Hopefully she considered it in her last days. At the funeral, as always they talk about her being in heaven now etc etc. Its why I hate going to funerals especially if I know they had no interest in God. The question to you reading this is this ...If people do go to heaven as said at most funerals, where is it? is it fluffy clouds and fairy dust, or is it a real place and why not a planet in a universe full of them. Could not a God who made everything transfer a soul he likes to another spot.?..I don't know but I'm thinking its a real place and why not a planet. I get tired of being hammered for trying to think outside the box. It all seems quite reasonable to me. If God is and I know He is, why not open a portal and deliver someone faster than light to a new destination...he's either God or He isn't and I think some pretty awesome power comes with the title..
For arguments sake (as i dont believe in heaven or hell) if Heaven was a real place, it would obviously be a place outside of this reality like a different dimension.
Heavens above or hell below etc are more just .....um is metaphor the right word?
“ The claim that someone doesn’t have spirituality cause they don’t follow your particular spirituality is responsible for more deaths , chaos and mayhem than basically any other claim in the history of the world. ” - blowin
This one sentence is the reason I can’t understand how people become brainwashed into religion.
A really good thread and I think credit to all those who've posted some deep thoughts. Its been cool to read them all. Personally not religious but I respect a good human and from reading all these posts...there's alot here.I guess the biggest glaring situation in my eyes at this time of year is the festivities. We celebrate the birth of a fella on the 25th...and then we count the successive years since that birth a few days later. But I'm a non believer. So where does that leave me at this time of year. An outcast? But I got tubed. I guess what I'm saying is that our whole time/life cycle structure is built around their story/beliefs. But its not mine. So I feel some conflict and resistance by having it imposed upon me. Am I a bad person thus?
Brutus, my personal experience in the supernatural is minimal and second hand. An ex girlfriend matter of factly told me of a ghost she would see at her old house. It used to move her make up around on the shelf while she was trying to get ready to go out and she would tell it to stop. A relative discussed how his uncle could move stuff around on the table top through telekinesis. It was a family secret kept from prying eyes. I have read often about some mystical stuff that seems genuine. But to me these things are either nothing real or possibly just peeks through the curtain to something no-one understands.
The major religions seem to have constructed their theology to highly evolved edifices based on guesswork and supposition to suit their various purposes. I don't get the sense they have pulled back the curtain and seen clearly what lays behind. Instead they have painted over the curtain pictures and patterns in what is probably just man's creation. If a supernatural world exists it is probably way off the mark.
I don't have faith in their guesswork. I also don't have a desperate need for answers to the big questions as I know I won't find them in a form that satisfies me.
I am happy to live my life well and be reasonably good person and not endlessly bother any supreme being with prayers and songs knowing they have heard it all a million times and have a very big universe to worry about as it is.
I miss my real dad but don't need a father in the sky to look after me.
If God exists i don't think he would be fussed one little bit that little old me was not worshipping him or was bit sceptical. If he was he can tell me later tonight in some dramatic fashion. Otherwise I will sleep soundly knowing it is all okay.
Might even go surfing tomorrow!
" ...If people do go to heaven as said at most funerals, where is it? is it fluffy clouds and fairy dust, or is it a real place and why not a planet in a universe full of them. Could not a God who made everything transfer a soul he likes to another spot.?..I don't know but I'm thinking its a real place and why not a planet. I get tired of being hammered for trying to think outside the box. It all seems quite reasonable to me. If God is and I know He is, why not open a portal and deliver someone faster than light to a new destination...he's either God or He isn't and I think some pretty awesome power comes with the title.."
"For arguments sake (as i dont believe in heaven or hell) if Heaven was a real place, it would obviously be a place outside of this reality like a different dimension.
Heavens above or hell below etc are more just .....um is metaphor the right word?"
what strikes me from these two posts - and I might be stating the bloody obvious here - is how we all make sense of the world with the knowledge and experience we have of the day...
just like the bible and other texts did back in the day
optimist is on a wild ride of the imagination, trying to explain heaven with wormholes, the speed of light, and other modern day concepts
and indod can only see the heaven in the sky, and hell underground idea as a metaphor, when back in the day this would have been a perfectly reasonable concept as people thought the earth was flat, and ships would sail of the edge of it...
the round globe earth with planets circulating the sun was quite controversial, and resisted by the church for a long time back in the day, with it's proponents excommunicated, belittled, and dare I say, cancelled, just like controversial ideas are now...
not having a go at either of you, just making the point that all people, of all times, endeavour to make sense of the world with the best knowledge they have of the day
and that from my perspective, this explains some of the more fanciful stories of the bible, like jesus coming back to life, which isn't really that wild a concept, with modern medical knowledge, that tells us he was probably just unconcious...
Brutus, curious as to why you assume that the only alternative to worshipping God is to worship money and power? That could be another broad assumption you are pushing on others, or is it another simple reference to ‘man not being able to help himself’... Either way it is a reflection of an incredibly limited set of options ;)
And as optimist stated - “he’s either god or he isn’t and I think some pretty awesome power comes with the title...”
Looks like there is not much alternative if god is indeed awesomely ‘powerful’... So do you worship the god but not the ‘power’ of god?... or do you chop and change according to your supposedly spiritually enhanced mood and make an exception for ‘gods power’?... Power is power - or is gods ‘power’ different to the worldly power defined by man? ;);)
Optimist said : ‘if god is and I know He is, why not open a portal and deliver someone faster than light to a new destination...’ maybe your question could be ‘why would He do that?!’ Really. Why do that?! Just coz you think it’s a reasonable proposition doesn’t actually make it so and ‘why not’ is a very convenient way of validating a question that actually may not make any sense at all... Do you understand that bit?
And: ‘could not a god who made everything transfer a soul he likes to another spot?’.... How do you actually know god made everything or even likes and dislikes - that seems to be a trait of man... how do you know god even likes or dislikes anything? And why if he made everything would he then decide to transfer someone elsewhere?! Seems like a possibility to entertain if you aren’t that content with what is here and now... and actually seems like a good ‘theory’ if you are wanting to be elsewhere, especially if you live your life ‘waiting’ instead of actually just living... ;) Maybe worthy investigations in your own mind but maybe also a subtle form of self induced imaginative fantasy.
Brutus I’ve never tried to prove you wrong in having faith in a higher entity, yet you seem to be struggling with proving that you are right. I actually encourage your search and such a thing is very difficult to explain or communicate because belief is born from concept - conceptual thoughts, memories, desires and hopes. This is neither right nor wrong. These concepts are all abstract formulations/ inventions. The past is an edited version of your experiences heavily swayed by your emotional responses - particularly if they have evolved from behavioural patterns that have imprinted and impacted your imaginary anticipation of what may or may not occur in your imaginary future. This manifests into your worldview and is often not only unrealistic but founded upon speculation and hearsay... that bit might be confusing but I’m trying to share with you that your life story is not real and neither is your future and especially not so when tied to biblical stories - stories that are also only hearsay and speculation... whether you supposedly understand them or
not won’t increase or expand your understanding of yourself - but it might allow you for a while to make sense of things according to your own personal likes or dislikes ;) In this sense, you are able to relate to something that makes you feel good - and if that comes from the bible then go for it ;)
And I don’t apply mental illness to people who believe in god - it is certainly applicable, though, to those who entertain deluded ideas that evolve from ‘belief’. Sometimes the ‘comfort’ derived from spiritual pursuits can be helpful and useful and I certainly encourage it - reality has an undeniable ability to offset the ‘comfort’ as it is created relative to past discomfort and the fear and anxiety of the future... as in ‘aaaah this place is fucked, the world is in bad shape etc, the future has no hope blah blah’.... consider maybe what it would have been like to live in biblical times ;);) Now, that would have been really fucked, especially if you were a woman! So try different perspectives, seek out whatever it is you want, but right here right now things aren’t as bad as they seem. Perception can fool you, and none of us really know what’s in store for us at all - and that’s an exciting prospect.... appreciate the people you love, be kind and live for your children and learn from them and let them discover their own true selves, free of what you think, especially when it comes to religion or god or Christ or whoever...
- ‘no matter how smart you are you can always learn’... this applies to our environment, our social interactions, our ability to forgive and move forward and, more than anything, the ability to be honest. Being honest is possibly the most powerful tool you can discover and put in play. It will destroy all your fantasies, all your falsehoods - you’ll try to entertain them still, and you can still have a vivid imagination and explore all sorts of silly stuff. After all, that’s what humans like to do ;);) Just try be honest with yourself about that kind of stuff ;)
"The past is an edited version of your experiences heavily swayed by your emotional responses" etc...
Are you paraphrasing the argument that belief is undermined because the cognitive faculties that underpin belief are so flawed that we can't trust them?
Problem with that argument is that it's self defeating: if belief is undermined in such a way, then the very belief that our cognitive faculties are unreliable is itself undermined (along with everything else)... On that position, we can't rationally affirm anything.
There is no problem pops...
Actually no argument.
Up to you to believe it or not ;)
"What is truth when we lie to ourselves about so much and know so little ?."
Seeing as its camping season....
The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment;
he stretches out the heavens like a tent
Indo..For arguments sake (as i dont believe in heaven or hell) if Heaven was a real place, it would obviously be a place outside of this reality like a different dimension.
It's amazing the questions coming back on the forum , ..heaven and Hell is a concept that man struggles with , as does man when he asks " what is the meaning of life?:
If you believe in God/Jesus there is also the devil/enemy who corrupts Gods word and try's to corrupt your soul.....so heaven becomes the reward , and hell is eternal misery......
Hey Indo I don't expect to convert anyone here on these boards . I have had a personal revelation with my life , that all the things I have witnessed first hand coupled with all the research I have done..........I have now changed to course of my life for the better.
the fact that we can come on here and have a civil exchange of ideas is heartening....as seriously, the World is not a well place and spiraling down into what looks like Hell........and the continuing bickering/fragmentation does not bode well for a secular future!
This one sentence is the reason I can’t understand how people become brainwashed into religion.
Blowin doesn't know we he's talking about , as the greatest loss of life was the last century , under secular Governments , called communism.....how many people died in Russia/China/Cambodia etc....so there's your examples of mans laws !
Sypkan....not having a go at either of you, just making the point that all people, of all times, endeavour to make sense of the world with the best knowledge they have of the day
Firstly Sypkan....the Resurrection of Jesus has been studied and proven by scholars a lot smarter than you and I.......if you wanted to watch the Case for Christ.....it would dispel all the notions that you have and replace them with scientific based evidence....but you would have to take a couple of hrs of your life to watch the movie...would be life changing as their are facts that support the death of Christ and as he fore told he arose from the deal with over 500witness's...
Just for the record the Death of Christ on the cross has been verified!
Jelly for me it's pretty simple , I have experienced super natural forces for nearly 50 years , which makes you realize that we are not alone and I believe in a super natural God , who 's son came down to earth.......if you chose to educate yourself about the fats that exist to prove the existence of Jesus , his death and resurrection ....all you have to do is watch the movie " A Case for Christ" which answers all of your questions and more.......it is futile to keep just saying "it's not true" when you have never really looked or bothered at the facts that support Christianity......
I dare you to watch the movie , as it will change your life
For the christians on here a question, do you believe in just one God (father, son, HG)?
"just making the point that all people, of all times, endeavour to make sense of the world with the best knowledge they have of the day"
To me, this is one of the kernels of the discussion - in the present day, we have the knowledge to move past so many illogical stumbling blocks, or at least to have the critical thinking to not accept faith-based systems.
But we don't.
We actually don't endeavour to make sense of the world with the best knowledge of the day.
So what's the issue?
Are humans not evolved enough to not need belief systems, are we still catching up with relatively recent advancements in knowledge and understanding?
Seems like thousands of years of evolution are hanging over us, which is no surprise I suppose.
Do you have any spiritual beliefs or leanings, Andy ?
Not talking about religion.
Yeah one God, Guy.
One being with three centres of consciousness.
Estimating there are say 3,000 Gods in all cultures and eras of human history why are you denying the existence of 2,999 of those Gods and not the full 3,000?
Why aren't all God's the real God if they provide a meaningful understanding of life and the universe?
In my view I would accept your God's legitimacy more if your christian religions and followers had been more accepting of the beliefs of others. Missionaries have so much to answer for in the aiding in the decimation of cultures throughout the world and in your own little way I'm wondering whether you're on a mission here.
Brutus, you dared me to watch a dramatic Christian propaganda video that will supposedly ‘change my life’.
An earlier post from you to another contributor states : “just do your homework on the issue of having faith in something other than toys and entertainment to fulfill your life”.
Pretty sure a tv or dvd can be categorised as a toy... And a 2017 film about Christ made by Americans would no doubt fit under the banner of ‘entertainment’. ;)
It’s a strange way to encourage others with such blatant hypocrisy and contradiction. Your self referential loop of madness is unravelling...
A lot of talk and a lot of supposed ‘factual’ input coming from you but you are missing the mark in an almost comical way. Recommending a form of entertainment to try and explain your obvious inability to answer the sticky questions, while at the same time trying to say our love of toys and entertainment are a reason for not being able to find fulfilment through having faith?????
I’ve repeatedly asked you to communicate your direct experience of god - as in your experience and ‘knowledge’ according to YOU free of the influence of books, videos etc.
If u can’t it’s ok to say you can’t...
As in, try being honest.... be honest to yourself. For real. Try eliminate the dependence upon your imagination. Consider whether your idea of god is actually nothing more than something imagined and influenced by cultural stories/ books/ videos and then reinforced and produced and edited in your mind in relation to your life experience... that’s not an impossible task ;)
Your ‘supernatural’ past stuff and reliance on what you’ve ‘seen’ is being confused with the superficial...
But yeah sure, everyone else needs to do the fact finding and watch a movie recommended by you to try and back up your delusional beliefs ;);)
Good luck with that approach ;)
"Hey Indo I don't expect to convert anyone here on these boards . I have had a personal revelation with my life , that all the things I have witnessed first hand coupled with all the research I have done..."
Don't worry I didn't get a preachy vibe.
You know i also kind of hope people don't put doubt in your mind about your belief's, because it seems like your faith has helped get you through a real hard time which is good.
In a way I'm kind of jealous of people that can have some kind of faith, it would put extra purpose in life.
But personally i just don't understand how people can believe in gods or religion.
Jelly,the question is really "tell us one experience you have had without god?" for god and life are one and the same so every experience is an experience of the living god. it is impossible to have an experience without god, but it is possible to think you are having an experience without god. either/or, it don't matter, just be yourself, and enjoy your life.
Dave, that was awesome...you've said that so well.
When I get a moment to quietly sit at home watching some porn and having a wank, I seriously think this is Gods work?
Oh please views, imagine if you had three kids. You'd be an atheist for sure because couch porn/wank time is non-existent.
davetherave that is put beautifully
I was gonna say ssshhhh not yet!...
- you’ve spoiled my fun here ;)
I might just have to shout you a beer when we meet on planet heaven ;);)
And nice to see optimist enjoyed it too
"I might just have to shout you a beer when we meet on planet heaven ;);)"
Sorry Jelly no beer in heaven, only spirits :D
Nice sentiments , Indo.
(2:26 post )
ah jelly...Christian propoganda ...so you have already dismissed a real life story , that is available in book form or movie. It's the content of the movie which should have been of interest to you . there are indisputable fact that proves that all I have said is true.
Having a closed mind on an issue , because you refuse to acknowledge anything but your own intellect , well that's your problem not mine...I am just a messenger that provides links etc to what I am saying.....
I think that your refusal to even look at the facts that support the Jesus story is comical........but that's the attitude that really bothers me.......when confronted with irrefutable facts. people/you still will find away to discredit the messenger , and then try to rationalize their position by putting forth conspiracy theories etc......
I actually have posted some of my first hand life experiences and why I have become a Christian....but I guess you didn't read them?
Not sure what you are getting at when you ask me have I used film/books etc to further my knowledge of issues...unless of course you are trying to insinuate that because I said "Toys/money and power have become Secular societies holy grail...."
or words to that effect........History is who and what we are today....History is constantly being rewritten as more facts come to light ..
In the end Jelly you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink ...is what I think applies to you......
dave,"Jelly,the question is really "tell us one experience you have had without god?" for god and life are one and the same so every experience is an experience of the living god. it is impossible to have an experience without god, but it is possible to think you are having an experience without god. either/or, it don't matter, just be yourself, and enjoy your life."
God and Life are not the same....!!!!
views...hmmm interesting point about porn.....so is it child porn , or maybe gay porn, or is it snuff porn......maybe a touch of slave / S&M with some kids thrown in for good measure?
Brutus , have you ever done an emmaus walk ?
Indo....You know i also kind of hope people don't put doubt in your mind about your belief's, because it seems like your faith has helped get you through a real hard time which is good.
But personally i just don't understand how people can believe in gods or religion."
I have some friends who are secular humanists that worry when they convey their point of view , that my beliefs could be diluted as they it's good for some one like me who has had a fair bit of negativity from life......nothing could be further from the truth...especially on forums....there is no one here on SN who could even dent my faith, in actual fact it strengthens my faith......I mean if you don't have any facts to back up a non christian point of view , and just go about denouncing and criticizing .......it's pretty funny/ironic that something you know nothing about ....you criticize LOL...
Brutus.....do you like movies about gladiators ?
Brutus ...have you ever seen a grown man naked ?