All Things Religion Thread

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Balance started the topic in Sunday, 29 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm

Here you go optimist

Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...

But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!

So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like

You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...

maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here

Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain

All the best...brother

PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!

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brutus commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 6:23pm

"I might just have to shout you a beer when we meet on planet heaven ;);)"

Sorry Jelly no beer in heaven, only spirits :D

now that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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brutus commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 6:29pm

Superfreak ....No I haven't don the Emmaus walk...actually had to look it up to understand what you were asking.......but I do plan to go to Israel , and will make sure I visit!

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brutus commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 6:29pm

Superfreak ....No I haven't don the Emmaus walk...actually had to look it up to understand what you were asking.......but I do plan to go to Israel , and will make sure I visit!

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Jelly Flater commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 6:35pm

Brutus...
You are a messenger?!
Cmon now, give us a farkn break.
And certainly interesting your comment on views post ;);)
No shortage of kiddy porn in the Christian world - no priests or Christian brothers who were also ‘messengers’ of Christ have ever done anything untoward to children right?!
You are starring in your own comedy special here!
History IS history...
Who and what we are today IS who and what we are today...
Keep pushing your stuff though ;)
Never mentioned any conspiracy theories at all but keep entertaining your fantasies...
And I’ve read your ‘first hand’ experiences - they amount to nothing more than memories of a sad old man.
If you’ve turned a new leaf and are born again or whatever, well good on ya and do what u gotta do to stimulate your tadpole brain...
If you can even seriously propose that you are sprouting indisputable and irrefutable facts and are a messenger, well I apologise for underestimating how far gone you really are ...
I’m not here to try acknowledge anything of my intellect at all yet it’s obvious your lack of intellect has certainly helped you arrive at all the deranged assumptions and conclusions you ‘believe’ to be true...

....carry on ;)

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Supafreak commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 6:47pm

Actually Brutus you can do a emmaus walk in Australia , it’s a 3 day spiritual journey run by combined churches , the first time you go as a pilgrim then on future walks you go as assistant or leader , I think it something you would really enjoy , there is a emmaus community in most states , someone has to sponsor you in order to go on the walk .

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brutus commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 6:52pm

Hi Superfreak....thank you so much , maybe all the writing was done here just to be able to connect with a Emmaus Fellowship......

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Supafreak commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 7:00pm

A quick google of emmaus community Melbourne ( or what ever state your in )

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davetherave commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 7:39pm

brutus say's god and life are not the same. maybe, maybe not, so this morning finally there is a little shorey out the front of my new abode, not much wind, tide nearly full, little peelers. i am amped, i have been travelling back and forth between cairns and my new coastal village.
i'm on it. at the local community op shop, i purchased a little surfboard shaped boogie board thing and i grab it thinking bazza time.
so off i go, get into the line up and it feels pretty bloody slippery. did i have wax in my surfing stuff in the spare room? fuck it, it will be ok, what can go wrong, god loves me.
so a sucky little left comes thru, i push into it, the board drops in and i get excited, the fucking thing is so slippery it slips out of my hand, drops down the face, nosedives then kicks back and as itry to turn away it hits me fair square under the chin, and now i am turned sideways in the lip and over i go. thankfully it's just a gentle bottom caress- god does love me- and then i have to swim and get the silly bloody thing.
yes brutus, god does not save us from our own stupidity, but even in the midst of realizing how fucking idiotic we can be,the blessings are still always on show.
so yes god and life are one and the same, just fucking awesome, it is our perspectives, judgements, prejudices and preconceived notions that make it otherwise.
as i was walking thru the bush track brutus, god spoke to me and said, "i told you to wax that fucking board dave". i said i know, but i am an expert at not listening to you so i thought fuck it.

davetherave

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Pops commented Wednesday, 30 Dec 2020 at 10:41pm

Guy,
Lot there so I'll answer under each chunk.
Sorry for taking so long - went out for a quick fish, that turned into a long fish, just finished eating part of my haul...
"Estimating there are say 3,000 Gods in all cultures and eras of human history why are you denying the existence of 2,999 of those Gods and not the full 3,000?"
Two questions there... Why do I believe in the Christian God and why don't I believe in any other.
Why the Christian God?
1. I find the various philosophical arguments for a personal, all-perfect creator persuasive. (I've spoken about some of these in the early pages of this forum).
2. I find the evidence that Jesus Christ lived, died and was resurrected to be persuasive. In light of the his own life and particularly the claims he made about himself, I am persuaded that he is God (his resurrection lends weight to his claims).
Why no others? Well, the definition of God arrived at by the aforementioned philosophical arguments & also the one Jesus claimed to know (and to be) is along the lines of "a perfect, omni-(potent, pient, present, etc), personal creator, who is the greatest conceivable being" - precludes multiple such Gods
I'm open to the possibility of other small "g" gods - as in powerful potentially non-physical beings, however these are not God (they'd instead be creatures - created things - since there is one creator, all else is created).

"Why aren't all God's the real God if they provide a meaningful understanding of life and the universe?" God does that, but is not defined by that.

"In my view I would accept your God's legitimacy more if your christian religions and followers had been more accepting of the beliefs of others. Missionaries have so much to answer for in the aiding in the decimation of cultures throughout the world and in your own little way I'm wondering whether you're on a mission here."
Yep, fully agree that missionaries through the ages have done plenty of wrong, unfortunately. The destruction/degradation of cultures is sadly ironic too , given that one of the early controversies in the church was whether Gentile Christians needed to fully adhere to Jewish practices (effectively, whether they needed to give up there culture in favour of "judifiying"), it was realised that of course they need not...
Re acceptance of other beliefs, I'd say we certainly ought to have done, through history, a better job a respecting - accepting that others have those beliefs - but not accepting them as correct or true. That's simply incompatible with Christ's own teaching.
Finally, you wonder whether I'm on a mission?
Well, for the Christian all of life is a mission. Christ said to his followers "Go and make disciples of all the nations".
So to be fully transparent, I hope that by respectfully answering questions someone reading this might at the very least realise that Christianity is a position that can be rationally held, and might be minded to look further into it.

Gee, bit of verbal diarrhoea there... Sorry for the essay!

He who hesitates is lost

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Sickaz commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 2:56am

Epic work Dave the rave had a good laugh at your last paragraph.

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Optimist commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 4:56am

"He existed before anything else and holds all creation together." Colossians 1:17 NLT
Dave is technically correct, because God is responsible for holding all atoms and molecules together so He is in everything. Original translations say "by Him all things consist"and the Greek word ( the language of the day back then ) used for consist is the same as in a cake mix holding everything together. If you've studied Physics, the nucleus of an atom is an odd thing, protons and neutrons together Positive and neutral and electrons whizzing around the outside. But the like charged particles which should repel each other stick together and the negative electrons don't crash into the protons. Just a nice little machine that makes no sense to us but we rave on like we have figured everything out. So God really is in everything and everything is in God. Forget nuclear bombs, if God decided NOT to hold everything together anymore the result would be a massive nuclear meltdown of everything with fervent heat. Fortunately He likes His fish tank and loves His fish...Our air is even full of water and has weight that keeps us grounded..There are also fighting fish that bully the others and those really annoying ones that continuously shit in their tank and pull out all the plants....No not really, we are much more important than fish to him, so important that He sent His only son to try and straighten us out and then substitute himself for our sin..He paid the price..the creator dies for the created and pays the bill...So every time you see a perfect lined up wall of water, all those atoms and molecules holding hands, give thanks to the one who makes it all happen..If your not interested in reading the bible, just read Colossians chapter 1. take a few minutes and answer a lot of questions. A great little book and just a couple of chapters....and to finish....
Matt 5:45..KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.....Jesus

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 5:47am

jelly.....not sure you understand or have the intellect to understand all the questions you throw at me ...that all I do is post links or direct you to the answers......I have personal experiences that I convey to you as part of my story and how and why I chose to become a Christian....not sure you have ever heard , "don;t shoot the messenger , he's only a messenger............do you actually understand what I just wrote??
Now you get personal derogatory and just plain rude...was trying to have a conversation with you , but you know all , don't need to even fact check me,,,

As for your absolute bullshit regarding me, what I have done and am still doing today will probably be more than your life....but c;est la vie....

You are actually the living proof of why the world is in such a mess right now....it's all about you and your baseless opinions.....I think this thread with me started with throwing the notion out there , that our civilization is at a crossroads......has become more and more fragmented socially and culturally...as I am quite amazed how people just don't believe in much anymore....and most disturbing are people like your self ,who offer nothing, attack others personally with what can only be described as bullshit....
So jelly no need for us to chat anymore....you make me wonder ,is there a Pandemic/Climate crisis/economic crisis....or as the Don and the gullibles would say " we have the worlds greatest economy and military, there is no real pandemic , we are just turning to the corner , the economy is the greatest in the world.....nothing to see here, carry on !

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 5:50am

supafreal thanx-done!

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 6:00am

daverave , and there we go you get personal again which is part of you kind of people (jelly) ....God is an entity that rules our lives.......and is the creator of our life....semantics over English Grammar?
"yes brutus, god does not save us from our own stupidity, but even in the midst of realizing how fucking idiotic we can be,the blessings are still always on show.
so yes god and life are one and the same, just fucking awesome, it is our perspectives, judgements, prejudices and preconceived notions that make it otherwise.
as i was walking thru the bush track brutus, god spoke to me and said, "i told you to wax that fucking board dave". i said i know, but i am an expert at not listening to you so i thought fuck it."
Well you did know your board was not properly waxed , so you actually deserved what you got ! Now your tech fuckup and your injury makes a nice little story about myself and God LOL ! But of course you could have thought " wow it could have been so much worse," but some people jut like to whinge

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 6:12am

Pops , nice posts love you explanation "Well, for the Christian all of life is a mission. Christ said to his followers "Go and make disciples of all the nations".
So to be fully transparent, I hope that by respectfully answering questions someone reading this might at the very least realise that Christianity is a position that can be rationally held, and might be minded to look further into it."

......inspiring....as I have said before ignorance is a curse , you can lead a horse to water , but you cant make him drink.......the rejection of the facts on Christ by the posters here is proof that we are living in world now becoming more and more secular each day...and it's man's ( the enemy's word ).......that seems to be engulfing our current civilization....God Bless ya!

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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:14am

Hahaha Brutus you are a funny cunt...
If you’d even understood any of my questions you’d have been able to answer them. Simple....
As in, be able to offer something authentic from YOU. Not a link to a book or idea or ‘story’ from somebody else.

Call yourself a messenger all you want but it’s obvious you are struggling with your own internal state and the way you perceive yourself relative to the outside world. This is all imaginary!
Backtrack and do your ‘research’ and fact check your input here...
It’s dribble. It’s all hearsay and confused ramblings about your take on the state of the world and it’s all relative to your fragile headspace - it’s all in your head Brutus! The supposed ideas and assumptions are reflecting your own inability to adapt to your immediate environment. It’s the clearest and most obvious indicator of mental instability. If you really are a Christian then why are the qualities of love and compassion and forgiveness so glaringly absent ;)

Your faith is a psychological buffer that is YOUR most effective disguise to either mask psychosis or a depressive state that you are unable to escape. If your interpretation of the story of the life of Christ is what occupies your mind in order to make sense of reality then go for it... explore it all you want. Just accept that it’s only your interpretation ( or shall we say your interpretation of a silly movie adapted from a book that supposedly changed your life ). There is no great mystery Brutus, things become uncomfortable if you are ignorant to your true nature. I’m sure you don’t understand half the stuff I’m saying, and we aren’t having a chat here - I’m challenging the preachings of an unqualified and deluded ‘believer’.
Nobody likes hearing what they don’t want to hear - and you are continually and repeatedly accusing people of things that you yourself are guilty of...
‘You have baseless opinions’ you say... Yet your own opinions ARE steeped in fantasy and YOU don’t understand or consider any viewpoint but your own...
Strange kind of accusation/ assumption.
But yes keep on keeping on, enjoy your walk and all - pls though try be open to the fact that at no time here have any of your arguments or conclusions been based on actual facts. (I agree a bloke called Jesus existed, I’ll give you that one though!)
It’s clear you are pretty fresh to this stuff and it’s very understandable something has tweaked and you are trying to convey your own ‘story’...
Problem is that in this domain you are a massive farkn kook ;) Maybe wait till you are producing the fruits within yourself - as you are a longggggg way away from being any kind of ‘Christian’ whatsoever.

Relax. Stop trying so hard!
And get over yaself ya big farkn fairy ;)

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:32am

jelly now I am a fairy..is that your homophobic response LOL?

so you say "pls though try be open to the fact that at no time here have any of your arguments or conclusions been based on actual facts. (I agree a bloke called Jesus existed, I’ll give you that one though!)" Have you checked the facts I have posted, rhetorical question...of course not!
You are not challenging me as you refuse to look at any of the sources of fact that I am using...then you ramble on about how I am deluded etc......so I have a very simple philosophical question for you.......

Can you prove God doesn't exist or do you merely believe the assertion that God doesn't exist ?

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:35am

Jelly..".Problem is that in this domain you are a massive farkn kook ;) Maybe wait till you are producing the fruits within yourself - as you are a longggggg way away from being any kind of ‘Christian’ whatsoever."

OK so I am a Kook Christian ,says you , so could you please detail and describe what being a Christian is, as you are obviously an expert on Christianity ?

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:39am

jelly..." If you really are a Christian then why are the qualities of love and compassion and forgiveness so glaringly absent ;)"

Fuck I am talking to you .....so far the conversation has been about all things religion .....with a few personal stories.....so now you are judging me based on what you have read here.....haha LOL.....doesn't take much for you to be a judge/jury and executioner...but that seems to be your MO..............

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:44am

Jelly..."‘You have baseless opinions’ you say... Yet your own opinions ARE steeped in fantasy and YOU don’t understand or consider any viewpoint but your own..."
My viewpoint is a Christian one that you do not choose to accept....it is not my own , and calling the Bible fantasy , well that's your prerogative .....but based on what facts have you formed your opinion...none!
So that's why I said you have baseless opinions!

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:48am

Jelly..."But yes keep on keeping on, enjoy your walk and all - pls though try be open to the fact that at no time here have any of your arguments or conclusions been based on actual facts. (I agree a bloke called Jesus existed, I’ll give you that one though!)"

So Jesus did exist , how do you know, is this a fact?

How can you possibly say there are no facts on Jesus/God , then say Jesus did exist , and that my facts are not true...why because you say so! LOL FFS .....is it too early for you?

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 7:56am

jelly..."Your faith is a psychological buffer that is YOUR most effective disguise to either mask psychosis or a depressive state that you are unable to escape. If your interpretation of the story of the life of Christ is what occupies your mind in order to make sense of reality then go for it... explore it all you want. Just accept that it’s only your interpretation ( or shall we say your interpretation of a silly movie adapted from a book that supposedly changed your life )."
Once again , I will dispel your lack of knowledge by saying....how do you know the Case For Christ is not true, you haven't read or watched it but you already have an opinion based on ignorance , so how can your opinion be true?
you keep saying " your interpretation " which is just not true , yet you keep trying to shoot the messenger , but with blanks......you have no factual basis to your critique of myself or the Bible....if you do have some facts , well please share them , because up until now all you have done is judged myself and the Bible but from what foundation of Facts?
Prove to me God doesn't exist!

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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 8:26am

;););)
I never made a homophobic reference Brutus, another of your assumptions.
An assumption based on cultural influence... again.
You are flapping ya fairy wings pretty good though ;) and just to clarify, not in any gay kinda way ;) I mean, you are using your imagination ;);)

I have never said god doesn’t exist.
I am no expert and don’t pretend to be, however you are proving yourself as a Christian kook beyond any doubt, no judgement from me Brutus - you are the one clueless to what a emmaus walk is.
And you are the one accusing others of having baseless opinions - I challenged you in the sense that YOU have a baseless opinion from the examples you provided in an attempt to explain your viewpoint to back up your opinion ;)
As in, your opinion is based on other sources and not your own...
You actually answer direct questions like a politician - you don’t answer them!
Don’t you think it’s a little strange that your opinion is not actually your own, but something that needs to be validated by something or someone else ? ;)

I also never said the bible was fantasy, I simply said it is hearsay and speculation.
Otherwise, please explain how you know it to be real ;);) Get that bit ;);) How do you know? Not according to even your opinion.... The book itself is real, the content is real, the historical context is real - but other than you deciding it’s real, how do you know it is free of any manipulations or exaggerations? How do you know ;);) Truth is you don’t, but you believe it to be so... and that’s ok.

I’ve mentioned before that the unknowns provide some of the greatest impetus and our meaning and importance on what we think we know can unfortunately at times be blinding.
To admit this is an exercise in humility, that’s why I encouraged it ;)
And this may be the baseline quandary presented here. As I’ve mentioned before, I encourage your pursuit. I encourage your determination, I actually think your passion can become very useful once you can properly communicate what you are trying to.

Of course you won’t believe anything I have to say. I don’t want you to. But how do you know I haven’t watched the movie? How do you know I don’t have extensive experience and ongoing practice that not only involves the study of Christianity and the practical application ( as in living, working with, and having a wide circle of Christian friends ) as well as more than two decades exploring a whole diverse range of religions and faith based teachings? Truth is you don’t know a lot, and either do I ;);)

You have an excellent ability to jump the gun a bit and if you would like to take the time to try reread some of the stuff I’ve shared just take out the silly inferences to you being a fairy or a kook and try Brutus to even consider others and where their religious standing may be... Don’t take things so seriously or personally ;);)
It’s not always Christian vs non Christian, it’s not believer vs non believer ;);)

‘No matter how smart you are you can always learn’ - this is the only thing I’ve provided from an outside source... pretty sure anyone from any faith or ethnic or socio economic background could consider it. And that quote is from an African American baggage handler who was a WW2 veteran. The opinion offered, to me, in this instance is both valid and factual.

I’ve read a few of your posts and I often stay out of things - and as a supposed Christian your method of delivery and approach is often divisive and angry.
Not a judgement - an observation...
If my direct manner in engaging with you is rude I apologise for upsetting you.

Brutus good luck to you.
Maybe go for a surf...
Metta ;);)

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 8:26am

It's interesting how Jesus also plays a part in Islam and the korean, obviously his importance and role(prophet from memory) is different but they still agree on quite a few aspects even that he performed different miracles and they even agree that Mary conceived even though remained a virgin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 8:38am

Brutus I never ever said god doesn’t exist... ;);)
I also never said at all that there are no facts on Jesus/God - I questioned YOUR interpretation of your ‘factuallly’ based hypotheses.
Who is shooting blanks?! ;)
Cmon mate you are fairly triggered.
The full moon is at play
- but that’s ok coz god made it ;);)

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Pops commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 8:41am

Thanks Brutus.

Jelly,
"The book itself is real, the content is real, the historical context is real - but other than you deciding it’s real, how do you know it is free of any manipulations or exaggerations? "
There's a vast field of study on just that. You really think that there's been no effort to check and re-check the authenticity & accuracy of manuscripts that are so influential to so many people?
Couple of things straight off the bat:
- We have multiple early copies and fragments of all books.
- For all of the NT and much of the OT, our earliest copies are very close the the events depicted (relevant to other ancient historical texts)
- since we have multiple early copies, we can check them against each other and track the rate at which transcription errors creep in, which turns out to be very low. Most English translations will flag the occasional disputed word with alternatives found in different "originals". There are very few of these and none change the meaning of the tract they occur in.
Check out the works of NT Wright if you're actually interested in this.

He who hesitates is lost

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frog commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:21am

My impression of the Bible and the words of the various disciples and even Jesus is that it is most clear and definite on worldly matters of events and principles for living (i.e. parables).

But as it moves into the realms of the spiritual it has the feel of a lot of people speculating, pondering, wondering and guessing what might be the case. This would be expected of mere men. But even Jesus often gives this impression.

It just feels as though they have at best seen a fragment of light here and there and maybe vague shapes through a threadbare curtain separating us from a possible spiritual world. Or maybe they have melded centuries of speculation into consistent themes and written them down. Even at its most definite the spiritual side of the Bible "feels" like guesswork and the construction of men who think they know but are not totally sure to me as a reader.

Building a life around that surely is a leap of faith.

Frogg

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:24am

jelly...."I also never said the bible was fantasy, I simply said it is hearsay and speculation." and I say read or watch "case for Christ" which has all the facts to support the Gospel and the resurrection......eg there are 3000 original Gospels/New testatments in existence......all written in Greek......so much proof.....but nah" Christian Propaganda,says jelly!"

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:28am

jelly .."Brutus I never ever said god doesn’t exist... ;);)
I also never said at all that there are no facts on Jesus/God - I questioned YOUR interpretation of your ‘factuallly’ based hypotheses.
Who is shooting blanks?! ;)
Cmon mate you are fairly triggered.
The full moon is at play
- but that’s ok coz god made it ;);)"

I am a Christian that trys as hard as I can to be a good one....I provided enough facts with Pops and Optimist...but you can't accept our christianity , its a fellowship ,the law is the law....I don't have an interpretation!

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:32am

jelly when you are speaking negatively about someone and then get called a fairy...there are homophobic connatations...I apologize if you didnt mean it in a gay kinda way.......but just shows you how on a forum ,interpretation can get twisted!

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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:33am

Thank u pops.
I am familiar with NT Wright
You are the only one here holding the fort here for you guys ;)

And Brutus... shut the fark up and stop embarrassing yaself u muppet...
I’m wishing u luck in your spiritual endeavours but u can’t take a hint...
Just coz you are slightly derailed doesn’t mean you have a superior take on things.
Quit trying so hard and go on ya walk ;)
You know... stop just talkin the talk ;)

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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:35am

Pops is the only one on the ball here with this particular stuff.
Brutus yes your interpretation is well twisted - u are like the little kid that just can’t get it ;);)
But you can understand and translate Greek now ;);)
Your wisdom is boundless

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:46am

jelly.."Of course you won’t believe anything I have to say. I don’t want you to. But how do you know I haven’t watched the movie? How do you know I don’t have extensive experience and ongoing practice that not only involves the study of Christianity and the practical application ( as in living, working with, and having a wide circle of Christian friends ) as well as more than two decades exploring a whole diverse range of religions and faith based teachings? Truth is you don’t know a lot, and either do I ;);)

fair enough...so yeah when get personal about me...and everybody knows who I really am....and you are just a name on a forum......I am a bit sensitive....but if you had watched the movie, it's a platform/foundation of facts from the worlds greatest Biblical scholars .....so that's fact enough for me!

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davetherave commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:48am

Brutus, i was using an example of how we all can be silly, not trying to get personal at all. I don't care what you think except that you are happy thinking it. Of course i got what i deserved, i didn't listen to myself, my conscious, what god in the sublime is, consciousness.
When you get to a place of not having to defend yourself, then you know you are in union, so you can just laugh. So i invite you all to have a good laugh.

davetherave

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:52am

jelly , well I guess that's it......"And Brutus... shut the fark up and stop embarrassing yaself u muppet...
I’m wishing u luck in your spiritual endeavours but u can’t take a hint...
Just coz you are slightly derailed doesn’t mean you have a superior take on things.
Quit trying so hard and go on ya walk ;)
You know... stop just talkin the talk ;)

haha back to derogatory/insulting personal remarks.....which shows the real you..do you think I care if you think I'm embarassing myself and a muppet...same context as fairy and on and on and on you go having posted nothing of substance only your baseless opinions.....and anyone who really knows me , know I walk the talk.....unlike you...so we are probably polar opposites.....good luck to you and your kind!

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:54am

Hi Indo....yeah pretty mind boggling wen you realize Islam recognizes Jesus and his teachings, but do not recognize him as the Son of God...same as the Jews

Jelly Flater's picture
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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:56am

davetherave that is another very kind and insightful post - and so TRUE

Brutus have lil laugh at yaself ;)
Just try it... lighten up

Keep your facts just how u like them ;)
And go to boundless.org and find a good Christian woman to slap tha bullshit outta u!
(Just jokin... it’s a joke Brutus!) ;);)

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:57am

jelly , it's pretty simple , if you don't like the ongoing discussion ...well you can just leave us alone and stop trolling!

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Pops commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 9:58am

Jelly, I reckon Brutus is doing alright - I'm following what he's saying at least. By the way, why do you object to pointing to an outside source that can explain things better than you are able to? The truth of something isn't coupled to your ability to articulate it.

Brutus, utmost respect in putting it all out there when most on here know who you are.

He who hesitates is lost

Jelly Flater's picture
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Jelly Flater commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 10:17am

Fair enough pops, and yes Brutus I’m takin the piss and niggling u.... and also offering u slight variables, u never know, u may learn something ;) be careful now!

And pops I agree the truth of something isn’t coupled to your ability to articulate it. Well put. Perfect articulation right there ;)
I don’t object to ‘pointing to an outside source that can explain things better than you are able to’
I object to anyone or anything being dependent on the outside source.
That’s pretty clear ;)

But hey we’d all love someone else or something else to do the explaining for us at times...

So if that’s ya thing do it.
Doesn’t mean it’s been explained though and doesn’t mean you even understand the outside source ;)

As in, maybe stop trying so hard ;)

Hence the questions regarding the ‘translation’ or ‘interpretation’...

Brutus mentioned the whole ‘you can lead a horse to water’ thingy...
Maybe I’m just highlighting the ‘lost in translation’ thingy ;)

Peace to u both

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brutus commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 11:28am

Hi Pops....you are so spot on with the articulation of what is being said . I actually use forums to see if I can articulate my thoughts into words.....sometimes OK sometimes not!
So I rely on people like yourself and Optimist and a few others , in making sure I am being understood .....and whether what I am saying resonates with other Christians or people who have genuine interest in" the meaning of life".......
The fact that superfreak has turned me onto the Emmaus walk...thru this forum....ha part of Gods' Plan?
Just so you know I do try and use my persona to spread the word ...follower or disciple ........

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AndyM commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 11:40am

@Blowin
"Do you have any spiritual beliefs or leanings, Andy ?
Not talking about religion."

Sorry about the delayed reply, I’ve been busier than a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.

Yeah this thread may be all things religion but talking about non-religious spirituality seems like a worthy tangent.

It’s a bit tricky to know where to start – a quick Google search defines spirituality as being a “a sense of connection to something bigger than ourselves, and it typically involves a search for meaning in life”, or maybe being about “non-religious experiences that help people get in touch with the human spirit”, where the human spirit includes our intellect, emotions, fears, passions, and creativity.

With this as a starting point, my first stop in personal spirituality (I was going to talk about “nourishing” the spirit but that word makes me retch) has always been the natural environment, whether it’s being on the water, under the water, in the rainforests, desert or up on a glacier somewhere.

I probably don’t need to bang on about the benefits of being in an intact environment but l find it grounding and very fulfilling and it’s provided a healthy and positive thread through life.

I think what’s interesting is that the more I know about the environment from a factual point of view, the more I get from the interaction. This especially applies to geological processes – having some understanding of the change in a landscape, whether over a matter of days or over thousands or millions of years is fascinating and very humbling.
So from my point of view, science works hand in hand with spirituality, or, it is possible to successfully “endeavour to make sense of the world with the best knowledge we have of the day" and have this positively affect us in a spiritual way.

Something else that I don’t think about that much but is also intriguing is the concept of “mathematics being the language of nature” and how maths and physics can help explain the way waves refract and break, how galaxies spiral, seashells curve and how patterns replicate in nature. This replication can be seen in snowflakes, leaves, flowers, lightning and also the hexagonal basalt columns seen at many headlands.

So I really think that when looking for answers or some sort of fulfillment and meaning, traditional religion had largely been looking in the wrong direction, especially in the past few hundred years when ideology doesn’t seem to have kept up with advances in understanding.

The Earth has huge processes over unimaginably long periods of time and in the not too distant future I’ll decompose and become absolutely intimate with the soil and the waters which will in turn be recycled as the Earth and its tectonic plates move and shift.

That's kinda deep and kinda spiritual in my books.

Edit: And this is without touching on music, literature, human interactions and all the other things which add to the human spirit.

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Blowin commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 12:12pm

Andy - Thanks so much for the considered reply. This is perhaps the most interesting perspective anyone has raised on Swellnet this year. I’d love to reply in depth but my typing hand is in a cast and even this paragraph took a couple of minutes.

So much to discuss !

You’re on the right tangent in my books. The greatest crime of the organised religion mafia was their ability to levy spirituality into their control and route the search for holistic satisfaction towards a book written by man and away from the intrinsically accessible spirituality attained by having a proper relationship with the natural world around us.

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AndyM commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 12:15pm

Happy New Year fella!

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Blowin commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 12:35pm

You too mate.

May your spear stone the fish and your tube shooter find a clean path through the belly of the beast in 2021.

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 1:53pm

4000 years ago God says to Job...Have you entered into the treasures of the snow.?.
Job 38:22...Then came the microscope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSd567wGzT0

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AndyM commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 2:12pm

4000 years ago, God asked of Job "Have you entered into the treasures of the snow?
The temperature changes the size and shape of a snowflake my son.
At -1 degrees C snowflakes usually look like columns. At -16 to -12 degrees C snowflakes are usually shaped like a star. At -12 to -7 degrees C snowflakes are usually shaped like a plate."

God continued.

"Snow is a molecular structure of an ice crystal. And ice is a structured substance which is in a a different form of water.
When the water cools down, the molecules move more slowly, and this begins to impact how the molecules line up. Hydrogen atoms of one water molecule bond with two oxygen atoms.
As the water freezes, the molecules arrange into hexagonal patterns. They prefer to stay as far away from each other as possible, and that makes them take up more space. The large space affects density. The density of ice becomes less dense than water. This is why ice floats. Almost all other liquids have a higher density when they freeze."

And Job nodded sagely, eager to delve into the chemical composition and the mathematical complexities of the snow.

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Optimist commented Thursday, 31 Dec 2020 at 3:36pm

I liked the analogy in the little video that like people, there are no two the same.

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Sickaz commented Friday, 1 Jan 2021 at 4:22am

This forum has been interesting reading for me. I don’t feel qualified to talk about specific religious stuff because my understanding is not developed enough, so it is good to read some of the posts here and learn something. Pops, Dave the rave, Optimist... good work. Interestingaz.

Not exactly a religious query but I wonder about the use of psychedelics in ‘spiritual awakenings’ and if any of the Christians here or any other religious or ‘spiritual’ people have had any experience with psychedelics and how it effected your spirituality? There are a lot of organic psychedelic substances that humans have used since time immemorial to reach a ‘higher’ level of consciousness and spirituality.

Disclaimer: kids, drugs are dangerous. I am definitely not advocating the use of drugs, but I am interested in consciousness and I have tried acid, mushrooms and more importantly - DMT (made from the root bark of a Wattle tree). Its (dmt) effects on me were something I would describe as spiritual. Although the direct effects last for around ten minutes I was left with some big questions that stayed on my mind for months at least. I also got some answers to questions I already had, mostly about myself, and I had a a feeling of calm, acceptance and unity with the world which lasted months at least. Woodstockaz.

Not quite the same feeling when you are in the initial ten minutes, which are intense AF. The first minute I would describe as a feeling of accelerating to the speed of light, followed by visual hallucinations (which can be lucidly observed and remembered) of things that I could best describe as spirits, and the most beautiful shining polished metal effects and coloured light matrices that quite honestly I still am amazed by and can’t describe in a way that would do it justice. I am really grateful to have had those beautiful visions. (I know bad acid trips can induce psychosis).

This guy explains its psychological effects way better than I can, Jonathan Haidt professor of Psychology from NYU. Epic guy. Side note, he also wrote a great book on the political polarisation in the US called “The Coddling of the American Mind”, which is how I discovered him.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StgjKN1KbFU

Graham Hancock on ayahuasca/DMT is interesting on a spiritual level and the benefits of breaking up your state of consciousness, not necessarily by chemically induced means.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_hhNEvOloaw

And last but not least the GOAT describes ayahuasca as maybe the most profound experience of his life.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJzyL0wWPg

Happy new year folks.

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Optimist commented Friday, 1 Jan 2021 at 5:26am

Sickaz, ..An early bird like me or haven't you been to bed yet..Early birds get the waves jelly.....Psych drugs do open your mind to the spirit world but it is not a good thing.
The best way to describe it is Think Frodo and the ring of power. Put it on and your easily seen by the enemy as well as other spirits both good and bad. The calm you can get will be a calm before the storm. If you open the door things can sneak in that wont affect you until later.. You can get insights but you can do the same without the drugs by getting up early and spending some time in Prayer to God. Very peaceful in the world early. If you want to go next level spiritually do a three day fast or a 7 if your already very healthy Go somewhere without distraction, only drink pure water and rest, go for walks or a swim, don't over exert as you will feel tired. Sleep, dream ask God to teach you things. Lots of junk will leave your body and you will feel awesome. Most of my big questions were answered by God during these times and I saw things you guys wouldn't believe.
If you really need a head buzz, have a few pale ales with some good friends and discuss spiritual things. That wont screw up your brain...Regarding Kelly, Kelly needs to learn that one day he wont be the best anymore regardless of where he searches.. His body will start to fail, he will get old and tired like the rest of us and he must learn to deal with it. All of you can start out one of the best in the lineup and then all of a sudden 15 year old kids are making you look silly. Its a part of life unfortunately and there is a great sense of calm once you finally submit to the fact. No drug will give you better performance, insight or anything else. Its all about getting into the flow and rhythm of life. You don't need drugs unless its a script for something to keep you well. Peace be to you in 2021...Love people and love the God who made you .Everyone of you will find Him if your really serious about it. To those who have no interest because they like everything just the way it is now..All the best with that and to you....Time to grab my 7'0 seniors stick and hit it..Cheers.