All Things Religion Thread

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Balance started the topic in Sunday, 29 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm

Here you go optimist

Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...

But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!

So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like

You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...

maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here

Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain

All the best...brother

PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:02pm

Blowin my eyes read fine. My spirit reads better about a man though.
If you wanna be so aggressive, maybe it's time to put your name to your stuff. Like i said, i happily will, I have before, i will again. No worries....i stand by my words and i will stand in the fire in real life. No worries. That's what it is.
So Blowin, what is it you've got to say with your real name?
I respect you have alot of knowledge, but i don't respect the way you quash the opinions of others, who just may know more than you.
Anyway, that's my swellnet Boxing day over. Turned out to be two box ons more than i hoped for today. My own weaknesses for sure, but fuck, we're all learning. Merry christmas Blowin and happy new year and lets all try to be better for everyone else. It would be nice.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:08pm

Cheers Supafreak if you can be bothered, please asked about it, sounds interesting.

@ bluediamond

To be fair to Blowin he might be outspoken at times and gets into back and forth confrontations at times but he also post a lot of stuff of substance surfing related or non surfing related, he has even started some real good threads and shared some real good stories.

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Blowin commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:14pm

Fair enough Bluediamond. See you in 2021 and start fresh. I don’t show my face or my name on the internet. Hard and fast rule. When I post photos on here I’ll even block out my face. Weird it may seem but in the computer age it pays to retain your privacy.

Indo....cheers mate.

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:12pm

Indo dreaming....fair enough but i honestly struggle with all your posts too mate.

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Blowin commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:20pm

Yeah. Real peacemaker.

Showing a bit of needless “ spirit “ there yourself bloke.

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:27pm

Attack and i'll attack back at ya bloooowwiiiinn...btw what's your name again?

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:30pm

wait a minute, am I in some weird parallel universe shit? Did someone drop some acid into that tangerine dream Christmas punch bowl, far out am I really on the same page as info? Haha, see you in 2021 info and don’t be late .....

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Blowin commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:33pm

Just wondering why you felt the need to stick the knife into Indo if you’re such a carefree fella ?

I thought we were all good .

No names or faces on the internet for me bloke. No Facebook, Twitter , Instagram or anything which renders me identifiable. Anonymity is valuable in the internet age so don’t take it personally when I don’t get goaded into giving up my details.

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:31pm

Nothing more to add. It's up to you from here on fellas.

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etarip commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:33pm

It’s like watching the drunken brother-in-law and uncle getting stuck into each other at Xmas while everyone tries to look away!

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Blowin commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 8:37pm
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 9:34pm

"Indo dreaming....fair enough but i honestly struggle with all your posts too mate."

Yeah well that's fine, it would be boring if we all agreed or had the same views, i probably don't agree with much of yours, but to be honest i dont really remember your views.

I think you have to remember that we all perceive each other differently and it's based on our own views we hold and if we agree with others or how we are treated by others..

For instance VL and Blowin butt heads and VL seems to attack Blowin and just razz him up, but for most of us it goes unnoticed because it's not aimed at us, we just notice when Blowin has enough and it all gets heated, then Blowin looks like the bad guy.

I agree with very little VL says but i don't have huge issues with him as he doesn't really troll me, i guess because i dont really question things that upset him like Covid or China etc

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 9:39pm

Ha ha Guy

It's actually happened a few times now...yep it is a weird feeling.

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:15pm

'Yeah well that's fine, it would be boring if we all agreed or had the same views, i probably don't agree with much of yours, but to be honest i dont really remember your views.'
Is this like your review on Dark Emu you did Indo....where you read the review, but not the book but decided to review it anyway??. So yeah, i struggle with your posts....

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:21pm

double post again...apologies for my crap internet

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:50pm

Just a question Indo and Blowin. Why do of you change your posts from the original of what you wrote. Just looked back through and they're completely rewritten??? WTF?? Answers please.

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bluediamond commented Saturday, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:51pm

Man up fellas.

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Optimist commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 7:42am

Luke 2 :14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”

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brutus commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 10:30am

Brutus - I still remember stumbling over the dunes at Waroora and finding the ASL on location edition tents at the lagoon. You and your ego had found ( secondhand ) what you you described to Ross Clarke Jones as “ The last frontier in Australian surfing “ . You got on the blower and called in everyone available to blow the joint out so you could put the BRUTUS name up in lights and make MORE MONEY. Whilst everyone else who knew about the joint just put their heads down and enjoyed it for its natural beauty you only saw EGO and DOLLARS.

Cash and ego , ego and cash .

But it was really all ego wasn’t it Brutus ? So why don’t you keep your little parables of humility to yourself brother ? Maybe learn your lesson whilst it was relevant like every other fucker instead of trying to convert yourself into the IMMACULATE and VIRGINIAL Brutus in your later years ?

I totally appreciate your efforts to stem the tide of Money ( ego ) before Place as you’re trying to do at Bells but it would’ve been a deeper appreciation if you hadn’t acted in the same manner as the crew wanting the walkway in times past.

I hold no grudge against you and I’ll excuse your insulting and patently false accusations of racism cause it’s Chrissy. But I recommend sorting your own shit out before you start flinging the mud around at others. If you want to line yourself up with the obviously insane Vic Stupid then knock yourself out.

PS Religious vilification.....pffft.

Just cause I don’t agree with your point of view doesn’t make it vilification brother.

Racism / Religious vilification......time to sort your shit out before you totally debase these legitimate concerns by continued and baseless applications to everyone you have beef with.

when I see racism I call it out and Blowin you just keep giving , as you do with making jokes about religion .........of course your way is to try character assassination , by discrediting who ever has criticized you....as did I.
So now back to Woroora...ego and cash....LOL/HAHA , we were actually doing something , called creative innovation and pioneering......which you wouldn't understand , just like you don't understand how racist some of your comments are...."not to you,but other people." just because you believe your having a bit of fun , at other peoples expense is fine , well for others it's not.
I don't keep my "little parables of humility" when I come upon people like you Blowin , as I see you as an intolerant , especially your racist shit and religious vilification.....which is just part of who you are......
This is not about me ,it's about insensitive comments you make in general....I have no beef with you just the shit that comes out of your mouth sometimes is very hurtful to some , and of course you can't see past your own immaculate self.....and realize what a problem Australia has trying to evolve to a true cosmopolitan society....the second language of Australia is now mandarin , embrace it as you can't stop it......but you can become a minority voice of right ..as you seem to be doing on SN.
I have no idea who you are , but you do know me and some of my history which you cherry pick bits and pieces to try and back up your weird interpretations of my history.....luckily I am not the man I used to be!

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brutus commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 10:42am

Blue diamond ...."Yeah well that's fine, it would be boring if we all agreed or had the same views, i probably don't agree with much of yours, but to be honest i dont really remember your views.'
Is this like your review on Dark Emu you did Indo....where you read the review, but not the book but decided to review it anyway??. So yeah, i struggle with your posts...."

So yeah I posted irrefutable proof that Dark Emu is based on facts , with another discovery of a 6000 year old aboriginal settlement in the Western District of Victoria which showed there was a a vibrant culture with a permanent township that incorporated farming etc.........but would Indo or any other disbelievers actually take the time read the link...therein lies the problem ?

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 11:13am

"Just a question Indo and Blowin. Why do of you change your posts from the original of what you wrote. Just looked back through and they're completely rewritten??? WTF?? Answers please."

Im not sure what post you are talking about?

But i pretty much always edit my post, because when i re read them i find spelling mistakes or words missing.

Occasionally i will add something more, pretty rare but occasionally i will delete a little bit a few minutes latter, because I'm human i often post on impulse and emotion and then quickly think nah i dont want to be like that or i don't want to stir up shit at the time either because i can't be bothered or dont want people to lose focus of the actual debate at hand.

Pretty rare to do that though.

I dont go back and change post from the past through, even if they are things i maybe dont agree with now or maybe wouldn't say now, if its been said it been said.

As for Black Emu, happy to talk about that in another thread but we really shouldnt clog this religious one up with another topic, but just quickly even if i had read the book reality is although i might question some things and think hmmm how can that be true, why hasn't havent we heard about these such significant things before?

Any misquotes etc would go over my head and everyone else's head, and then people blindly believe it as gospel.

However luckily others have gone over the book and looked at the original sources quoted and often they are not the original quotes they are interpretations of the original text, that differ quite a bit and paint a much different picture.

Or they have read the complete journals and found information that total goes against his narratives, as do countless other recorded historic accounts.

Apart from the dark emu exposed website there is also a whole book on this "bitter harvest by peter o'brien"

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Supafreak commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 11:16am

Brutus I understand the problem you’re talking about I’ve had similar experiences. "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 11:42am

@brutus

I read the link you shared, from memory it was more on damming of areas for fish catchments or something found from technology that can look under the ground or something?

Like i said nobody suggest much of the book is not based on fact and well known and nothing new, but there is important aspects in the book that are just theories and ideas without any evidence to back them up, the whole narrative of the book is indigenous people we're not hunter gathers.

When we know Indigenous people were hunter gatherers the evidence for this is well known, if there really was permanent settlements of as claimed, they would have been super rare and most likely semi permanent and im sure after thousands of years each generation would have improved on structures as we see all around the world through history and there would still be decent evidence of these settlements.

But to have large permeant settlements would mean there would need to be a large food source that is not going to get depleted or to have a agrarian culture but we know this is not the case, maybe there is very odd exceptions from memory they found one area where there was lot of eels and had more of permeant settlement but pretty much all over Australia we know indigenous people were hunter gatherers and nomadic

There is nothing at all wrong with this lifestyle, with the low population it made complete sense, move into an area for days to weeks use the resources, then move onto the next area, doing this ensures resources were not depleted, it was a 100% sustainable for resources but obviously could only be done with a low population.

The larger the population becomes the more groups would fight for resources and land and eventually be forced into smaller areas and then need to change the way they lived and become more farmers although with the flora and fauna we have that would be much harder than in some other areas of the world.

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adam12 commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 12:18pm

At the risk of interrupting the naval gazing by the self appointed self important "shit hitters" and conservative ill- informed Wendy Botha porn- stealing lefty triggering posters on this religion thread, I have a question for Pops or Optimist or one of the believers with more knowledge that I. In the western Christian cultures, particularly the Catholics, it is common for children to be named after a disciple or saint or pope. Like the wedding scene in Goodfellas where all the men were Peter or Paul. Or a daughter is called Mary. But to call a child Jesus in our culture is probably considered blasphemous, and no one does it. Yet in the Latin/South Americas/Spanish world parents often call a male child Jesus, it is not considered a blasphemy, more an honour or tribute or expression of faith. So my question is why ?
Is it cultural, do the religions condone or discourage it? What would be the reaction amongst your group of worshipers if you turned up one day with your son, Jesus?
I'm interested in hearing from Pops or Optimist on this. don't care what Indo or Blowin think.

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Pops commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 12:34pm

Good question. Not sure if I know the full answer... Optimist probably knows more of the history.
Food for thought:
The names "Jesus" and "Joshua" are basically the same (Jesus' name to his contemporaries in Hebrew might well have been "Yeshua" ).
Both mean something along the lines of "God saves".
Why Joshua became popular in the anglo world and Jesus in the Latin, I'm not quite sure, but it'd be cultural factors I think.

If I rocked up to church with a baby I'd just named Jesus, I'd expect to get much the same reception as if I'd named him Jorge - ie why are you using a Latino name when you've got no heritage there. Nothing in the name itself or it's translation that is blasphemous. (Naming a child "Yahweh" however...)

He who hesitates is lost

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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 1:16pm

"don't care what Indo or Blowin think."

Ha ha did you really need to add that, i have no idea anyway, but actually have thought the same thing myself.

They would probably get a lot of shit at school if their name was Jesus though.

Never came across a Buddha either, plenty of Muhammad's though.

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brutus commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 3:44pm

Indo here is the link again.......6,6000 years ago , before the Pyramids were even thought about ....there were engineered canals etc, farming / fishing and hunting.
we know there were nomadic cultures also depending on the environment they were living in , but the history we know is constantly changing as technology kicks in and also archeaological digs continue...history is constantly being revised ....with new facts becoming available...https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/more-ancient-wonders-reveale...
In Australia we know very little of of our indigenous history , and I would like to think that the stereotyping of our Nations First peoples is slowly but surely being challenged and a new view of an amazing social culture that has been evolving for 10's of thousands of years .........so back to the religious side of things......

Dark emu is a classic example of " what is the truth, and who determines that?" same as the Bible/Gospels , if you haven't read and understood God/Jesus , how can you have an opinion if you don't have the facts?

The greatest issue facing humanity is how are we becoming so" fractured and divided "on just about everything from politics to the future plan that will enable our kids and grand kids etc to enjoy the life we inherited.....but we will be leaving them with a secular mess!

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Optimist commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 2:50pm

Pops is right , its just a language thing. Jesus is just a translation of Yeshua or Joshua in English so If a Spaniard named Jesus rocks up its all good. For Christian Arabs its Yesu. In our country we respect the name to a point where we keep it special but Joshua is the same name.
More importantly are some of His other names,
Son of God and Son of Man...Immanuel (God with us) ...Alpha and Omega (the first and the last)...Christ (anointed one)...Logos ( the word)...and others but my favorite , is the one where His own "so called" high priests wanted Him dead. They were a bit like our Vatican guys these days.
...and He said to them Truly I say to you..before Abraham was....I AM... (John 8:58)
and why did they want him dead...Read Exodus.. 3:14...Thousands of years earlier.

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sypkan commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 3:31pm

what a book of revelations this thread has turned into!

revealing one can easily obtain a university degree...

without needing or having any capacity at all for critical thinking... despite universities deluding themselves, that they are the authorative centres of 'critical thinking'...

authorative?

moreso authoritarian actually...

it's also revealing that, the coch-something something-dundee fellow, is probably someone else... and that I probably should get over my cultural cringe and not avoid reading his stories just because the author's name makes me... errr, well... cringe...

especially considering I religiously (excuse the pun...) open the other guy's posts, even when they're on a thread of little interest to me...

I do this because, he's very knowlegable and entertaining, but also because he's rather funny, challenging, and literally 'makes' the site ...well, for me anyway...

only for me? ...as it's also been revealed, he literally destroys the site for others...

others that take no issue with viclocal and his absolute toxicity, hostility, and toxic neutured masculinity, that absolutely destroys the site for me...

only me? ...well, ...not totally only... it would seem... but defo only for a minority...

...others that also have no issue at all, with that meanest of 'mean girls' schoolyard bullys, who engages in the bullyest of bullying behaviour (from my perspective...) ....as he polices the thoughts and musings of the schoolyard masses... (acab)

it's all about perspective I guess... in this 'choose your own adventure' (thanks andym) post modernist maelstrom of opinions...

opinions dressed up as 'facts' and 'research'....

it's also been revealed what a sheltered little sheltered work shop mainstream thinking has become... as this 'research' has 'seeped' into the conciousness of the masses, and has become the only acceptable 'narrative' to be shared and accepted publicly ...with no 'critical thinking' to be 'tolerated'. ...no challenges to the dogma to be made... none whatsoever... which is, rather intolerant... it would seem...

interesting times indeed...

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velocityjohnno commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 3:02pm

I've always liked Psalm 107:23,24
Peace be with you all
Faith found during great adversity; it is real and heals

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sypkan commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 3:35pm

'The greatest issue facing humanity is how are we becoming so" fractured and divided "on just about everything from politics to the future plan that will enable our kids and grand kids etc to enjoy the life we inherited.....but we will be leaving them with a secular mess!'

I find this quote most interesting coming from you brutus...

not in a pick a fight kind a way.... as I tend to agree... to a certain extent... from my non christian perspective... interestingly enough...

just curious how you see this little argument I often hear coming from crew that make a sport of challenging christian dogma, ...it goes something like this...

if only people that accept jesus can go to heaven...

then isn't god, and his enforcers, being rather intolerant, inconsiderate, and downright unfair, in over looking the millions of people that make up the many indigenous cultures across the world that heve not been exposed to christianity?

and also, to those people who choose to continue to practice their indigenous culture in this time of indigenous culture celebration and preservation?

just think it interesting how you see this all coming together in the context of your quote above, other posts, and the 'secular mess'

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brutus commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 3:40pm

Hi Sypkan, I have no problems trying to discuss any issues , but , trying these days to do it in a civil manner.....otherwise it all gets emotional , then the angry personal shit kicks in......soft on the person and hard on the issues , is what forums should be about....but not anymore , it seems as though the secular world is rejecting rules and laws that have guided Western Civilization to this point in time and now humans believe that they have all the answers to life, what is real/factual.....
Believing and having faith in God through the Old testament is an amazing journey , because it was written thousands of years before that the new Messiah / son of God would be born and predicted Jesus's birth , " the son of God" . The Gospels tell the story of how Jesus lived , preached and died....rose from the dead ( the Resurrection)...so he died and rose from the dead.....and all people who believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead to show us eternal life in Heaven........pretty simple really that God sent his son to save us , and that we can only reach God through his son accepting Jesus as Lord.
Sypkan , there seems to be always those who choose to ridicule Religion/Gods etc.....but when you read the amount proof I have read , and had my life / near death / supernatural experiences ......there is more is more to life than just an empty black void...........
So sometimes it just doesn't seem fair that God would love us but also we incur his wrath.....so what seems unfair to us is just our limited intellect......

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brutus commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 3:49pm

hi Optimist and Pops , can you check what I wrote back to Sypkan ,.......just makin sure I got it right......pretty hard question to answer......

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Pops commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 4:04pm

Sypkan, adding to what Brutus has said:
- New Testament books such as Hebrews, Romans and Revelation teach that certain Old Testament figures (including even some non-Israelites eg Melchizedek) are saved despite living hundreds or even thousands of years before Jesus. That suggests that the effects of Jesus death & resurrection (discharge of God's justice on Jesus as one's proxy, imputation of Jesus (legal) righteousness) can be appropriated even without any knowledge of Jesus.
- Romans teaches that God judges man based on man's response to God as He has revealed himself in a given instance. E.g say someone lives in a time & place such that he's never had an opportunity to hear of Jesus. He will not be judged for failing to accept Jesus, but rather on the basis of how he's responded to however else God has revealed himself in that time and place (perhaps simply through nature/creation - in which case it would seem that recognising the existence of some creator and responding in awe may well be sufficient). Edit: even then, he is saved on the basis of what Jesus has done. You could say (though this is rather simplified and only looks at one aspect) that Jesus sacrificial death is the legal mechanism by which salvation can be appropriated, and responding appropriately to God (however he Has revealed Himself to you) is how it is appropriated.

I've probably not explained that too well but hopefully it makes sense.

He who hesitates is lost

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Pops commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 4:01pm

Brutus, I reckon you answered pretty well.
It's a big question with a lot of different ways to think about it and different angles to take.

Curious how Optimist might tackle it too.

He who hesitates is lost

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Optimist commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 5:14pm

Jesus looks at the heart, he knows us inside and out and knows how we will personally respond to his entrance into history and His attempts to enter our hearts and minds, indigenous people included. Every one reading this or not, has or will have a crossroad in their lives where God is calling or prodding you. There will be several opportunities that stand out during our lives where we will either accept or reject God. He is our father and wants us and you can call Him anytime.
Satans plan is to throw us fake religious Babylonian side roads and false christians (eg Rome) to make God look bad. He has already lost his place and will try to take us down too. We have to also remember that Jesus is an eternal being and can enter history at any point past present and future which is a bit to get your head around but think Doc and back to the future but no DeLorian needed. You will notice that when they killed Him He descended into the place of the departed spirits first, for three days and nights doing goodness knows what but I would say preaching to the dead and to see who believes. His death on the cross was for all people past present and future and rest assured all people on earth will have had their heartstrings tugged by him at some point no matter their race . Whether they are up for the next step is the thing, or are we happy not wanting to know so we can continue in our little worldly ways. No matter your position on earth or your heritage we must be open to change and daily I witness humanity actually going backwards and reverting back to old ways that had some falsely desirable benefits but a lot of spiritual darkness.
What we have here, is God the Father and Jesus the Co-equal son offering to take us on a journey to the next level. This is truly the only real evolution of the human being. One day we will look back and say "oh yeah, now I see why God did it that way"..and of course it will have been the best way to round up and save a bunch of freewill rebels.

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sypkan commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 6:10pm

thank you for considered responses, with the utmost respect, I find those answers rather lacking and made up on the spot, full of hollow justifications, and not much else ...which is fair enough, that's what humans do...

having said that, there's a lot of good stuff in there too, just not towards my particular question I feel

"Satans plan is to throw us fake religious Babylonian side roads and false christians (eg Rome) to make God look bad."

is this aimed at catholics?

I've studied religion quite a bit, both purposely and by accident, and I always see these constant little gibes seemingly aimed at catholics by christians, which again is fair enough, considering history, various events, and human nature...

I just find them interesting, as I currently have foot in both camps so to speak

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Jelly Flater commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 7:12pm

The obvious elephant in the room here is blatant ignorant self appointed religious opinion... and the opinions of Brutus and Optimist in particular are all self referential bias created from the intellect or, in the words of Brutus, the ‘limited intellect’... All the conclusions and spiritual interpretations from gospels or scripture are exactly that - conclusions and interpretations. Do you understand how your belief is rooted in your intellect only? And has anyone actually noticed the emphasis on ‘Him’ and ‘His’ in reference to God - as well as ‘The Father’ and ‘his son’ etc ... Its all so male heavy, so patriarchal and insistently forceful. The constant allusions to belief in Jesus as the only way to finding God etc are all so tiresome and ineffective. Curious also as to why the so called experts who have read so much and acquired so much knowledge and experienced so much supernatural ‘proof’ still need to convince or educate others in a manner that is relative only to their superior personal spiritual viewpoint. Kind of like a man explaining why men are better or the best - makes sense if u are a man ;)
So.... why is god ‘the Father’ and why is his Son the saviour etc? I’m asking this question because this is how it is communicated, funnily enough, from a scripture written by..... MEN! How are you personally so sure god is ‘Him’ -did ‘he’ reveal ‘himself’, or is that just how it reads?.... Could it have anything to do with the fact that a woman’s voice in biblical times was akin to that of a slave... as in, they had no voice.... Peculiar and rather convenient that ‘God’ revealed ‘himself’ to ‘man’ and we will be saved through his ‘son’...
Now, beyond the quotations and supposedly meaningful parables that supposedly represent this and that and provide the ‘answers’ that mankind requires in order to be saved - pls can anyone share their personal experiences and/or direct knowledge attained beyond the interpretations and teachings of gospel. I’m not attempting to question or belittle individual beliefs, I’m trying to clear away the obvious indoctrination and self imposed cherry picking that overrides ones actual ability to speak (or preach) from a place of truth. Tell us, without reference to anything you’ve read or any story you’ve heard, your actual experience of Jesus or God. Share your true and unbiased relationship with Jesus or god, free of influence from scripture. Try and even talk from beyond the ‘I was lost and am now found - I was sick and am now healed’ cliche... Now the whole biblical story ‘adventure’ I admit is thought provoking and interesting and serves as an immensely profound tool for many... However, no one yet that is doing the preaching here has actually offered anything beyond their intellectual ‘version’ of things that were set out in a book or video or second hand narrative. Who are your teachers, and where is your direct first hand experience of the things you seem to be so able to school others on? ;);)

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Pops commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 7:15pm

Sypkan,
My response was not made up on the spot, nor intended to be hollow, but something I've come to genuinely believe after wrestling with the same question for some time. Unless I've misunderstood your question...
To check, I understood you to be saying "If salvation is through Christ alone, how can we say God loves those people who've never had the possibility of hearing about Jesus? (The supposed dilemma being either there must be some other way, or God isn't perfectly loving as claimed".

My response is that someone need not know of Jesus in order to be saved through Jesus; appropriate response* to God in whatever way He has revealed himself is sufficient.
*(Recognising and worshipping the creator, however little you know about Him, rather than any created thing).

He who hesitates is lost

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Pops commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 7:39pm

"How are you personally so sure god is ‘Him'"
For God the Father & God the Spirit, the word "Him" is merely used to convey that God is a person, not a thing. Neither person is{edit: I mistakenly wrote spiritual} physical so assigning a biological sex is nonsensical.
Why the masculine word? I'd say you're right in suggesting historical context.
Btw it's quite interesting that the first witnesses of the empty tomb are women, who would not count as witnesses under the contemporary laws.
Jesus of course is a He since he was born a male human.

As for my own experience, it is very, very hard to put into words... A feeling (or maybe knowledge? I can't find a good word) of absolute certainty & of being deeply loved & a sudden ability to understand scripture are about it. No supernatural abilities - nor is there any promise of them.
Though an otherwise very sensible and sober-minded physics teacher I know wholeheartedly believes that he has performed an exorcism in India (by praying in Christ) (a few others I know and generally trust witnessed it and stand by him) - I wasn't there, so all I can do is pass on that story.

He who hesitates is lost

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Pops commented Sunday, 27 Dec 2020 at 7:26pm

I'm off for the night, will try to look at any other questions tomorrow.

He who hesitates is lost

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Optimist commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 8:40am

Yep Gods a bloke because Jesus is His visible image. All the great female qualities in the "Womb" man or woman also come from him.
Regarding proof, Ive experienced so many intimate things and seen so many miracles personally over the last near 40 year journey with Him that it would take days to write. But why ask us believers for proof?
Ask God yourself.. If your fair dinkum and really want to know the truth about if God " is," and if Jesus " is " the way, He will answer...But...be careful what you wish for as there is no going back and like me you will become the butt of jokes, persecuted by family and old friends, buffeted by Satan while doing good, but man what a joy to feel the connection with the King of Kings and having your future assured. Jesus went through it all too so we are not the first. The power of darkness is strong on the earth. The friendship with God experience is next level and new earthly friends and family made. We are the future of humanity and Jesus Christ the chippie from Nazareth became the first of the new species, a resurrected human, a new body and life that will finish Gods plan for all those that care to seek Him.
Ask and it will be given you, Seek and Ye will find, Knock and the door will be opened to you, ...everyone who asks receives, everyone who seeks finds and all who knock the door is opened....Jesus....Matthew 7:7...peace be to you this Christmas....

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etarip commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 9:36am

So much mumbo-jumbo in the religious models, so many human artefacts placed as obstacles to an actual spiritual relationship with whatever deity you’ve chosen to follow. Religion is politics and vice versa. It’s a form of social control more than anything else.

I’ve got family who are religious, they’re actually the the ‘chilled’ kind - now. My sister got drawn into the more hardcore god-bothering fundamental kind - in the Shire! - through a relationship and ultimately an abusive marriage (eventually she left - after a decade of emotional and sexual abuse). The difference between the supposed Christian ideals and the reality of some of those humans was a canyon, not a crack. Fundamentalist beliefs meant that she lost friends and is still seen as a sinner by members of that community, for not ‘submitting’ to her husband as required by the bible. Fuck that and fuck them. That side of their family STILL tell their kids that she (their mum) is a sinner!

I grew up in the Shire. Knew it was conservative, never really clicked that it was religious until I saw all that and the fallout within their community. Then reflecting on my own experiences at State schools, with largely compulsory scripture classes, I started to see more of it. Being punished for asking reasonable questions (as a 10yo) like ‘what about kids in Africa that have never heard of Jesus - do they go hell?’ And being told at about the same age that my dad was going to hell because he was an atheist! By an unvetted, untrained, religious fuckwit in a public school! The Muslim kids at school (in the 80s!) were basically put into detention for the scripture periods!

The lived life is the one you’ve got. Live it well, leave this earth knowing you’ve done the least harm possible. Leave the rest of the crap. I’m all for ethics and religious education in schools - education ABOUT religion, and respect for others. But scripture / indoctrination should be banned.

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GuySmiley commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 9:36am

Seriously?

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brutus commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 9:37am

Sypkan , hope ya read Pops and optimists reply as they are more learned than me , I am still catching up on being able to quote the Bible.

" so ,thank you for considered responses, with the utmost respect, I find those answers rather lacking and made up on the spot, full of hollow justifications, and not much else ...which is fair enough, that's what humans do..." .....if you would like more physical written proof...read "The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel"....which is quest by an atheist investigative journalist to disprove the facts about Jesus Christ.....every cynical / question /thought you can have is answered from an atheists point of view , which then makes you realize.....how much proof do you want, as the proof is very clear!
So when you have historic proof that Jesus did come to earth , and preached for 3 years , proclaiming and predicting his death and resurrection .......well watching the movie "a case for Christ "becomes even more of one of the most important references to Jesus ( other than the Bible) for the lay man.....
As C .S .Lewis said " Jesus must be considered from position of the 3 x L.....he is either a liar , lunatic or Lord ?"
Intellectually from C.S's point of view , how could anyone listen to Jesus and say he was a liar or lunatic .....and be the most important man in History....Lord who is son of God, pretty easy to search for the evidence....we have to work at Jesus's teachings every day and realize there was only one perfect man!

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etarip commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 9:37am

That for me Guy? Yes.

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brutus commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 9:55am

jellyflater...."The obvious elephant in the room here is blatant ignorant self appointed religious opinion... and the opinions of Brutus and Optimist in particular are all self referential bias created from the intellect or, in the words of Brutus, the ‘limited intellect’... All the conclusions and spiritual interpretations from gospels or scripture are exactly that - conclusions and interpretations"
Optimist is way ahead of me from a scriptures referencing point of view and total understanding of the Bible , but having said that our opinions are based on the Facts that prove the existence of Jesus did exist and did in fact claim to be the "son of God".
How much have you read on Jesus and the historical truth, and what was it you read? I am not having a go here Jelly I am genuinely interested how you came to your opinion and what it's based on?
I am sure Optimist will have his story...mine is pretty simple , altar boy/scout/sunday school teacher till I was 16...Church of England....have been in 19 car crashes , survived Cancer 3 times ( Drs always give you a few years only) have more than 10 x2 wave hold downs , 1 x 3 wave....hold down...various heavy situations with people.....so my ex-wife was/is a phsychic....100's of untold stories of the super natural....
I have observed too much supernatural to know there is a God....and the logical extension of faith in God is Jesus...because man's factual accounts on Jesus have proven to be true ....reading and understanding the Gospels makes so much more logical sense than having faith in mans laws and behaviour!

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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 10:01am

Seems to me historically religion comes from a sense of humans needing to understand the world and the things they couldn't explain way back when, like the sun and moon and stars and just all the things that now science helps explains.

Certain mental illness and natural drugs would explain many events written about in religious text, even today we have cult leaders ect who think they are some messiah, if it had been thousands of years ago we would most likely be reading about them in the bible or koran etc.

I think religion is what people make it though, there is positives and negatives, i think you need to have some respect and respect peoples right to believe things, but it also shouldn't impact others too much.

What shits me about religion these days is more the politically correctness around it, for instance its almost cool to bag Christianity but Islam is totally off limits.

IMHO this needs to change all religion needs to reform and adapt for the modern world, not the other way around.

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brutus commented Monday, 28 Dec 2020 at 10:16am

etarip...are you aware that western civilization is based on the Bibles laws ?

Sad to hear all your stories , and your idea to ban the scriptures is a self perpetuating issue , and now you are banning free speech...there are a lot people and organizations out there who misinterpret the Bible for their own personal gain....faith is the word that resonates , when I read posts like yours....but also the want for personal peace....through a higher entity....