Skin Cancer

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Sheepdog started the topic in Tuesday, 15 Apr 2014 at 8:19pm

Was chatting with "blowin" about the silent killer and deformer of surfers..... Not sharks, not fin chops.... The big C..... Yeah, blowin, it's a fuckn hard pill to swallow..... Now sometimes when I feel the sting of the sun on my skin, the feeling I loved for years, anxiety levels raise.... A simple pimple, an insect bite can put you into a mild panic..... I dream of backlit east coast waves..... But I am assigned to surf west facing coasts in the early morning, hiding like a vampire..... It fuckn sux mate...... Let be be a lesson to all...... Cover up you fuckn idiots.....

Photo 1 is of the actual cancers on the gum line of my lip...... Photo 2 is after one week on aldara treatment, which is basically a type of chemo poison.... photo 3 is after 3 weeks........ Hell on earth..... For 6 weeks.... So sick.... Gut cramps from aldara cream seeping down my throat..... Glands on neck rashed up..... Smoothies the only thing I could delicately slurp...... Then another 2 months before knowing whether it worked..... Thank god it did.... Or snip..... Lip amputation..... Even after 4 years, my lip is tender.... I have to sip hot drinks through a straw........ Zinc up....... Cover up.... Wear a hat if it's pumping..... For fucks sake..... Now, the melanoma on my back?.... Well there's another mightmare.... Must be a tough old dog, cos I'm still fuckn here.........

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brutus Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 2:20pm

ah uplift.no I am not an expert on cancer,but I have read and studied about cancer,cause's and treatments...from Classic scientific research to all the holistic treatments.....so its relative....compared to you I would be an expert and have helped a lot of people get their lives on track and regain their lives through positive thinking and a change of lifestyle.....

your claims no-one knows why is plain rubbish....they do know......

and its a fact that all humans have cancer lying dormant in them .....its what triggers the dormant cancer .....

uplift wrote: Brutuseless, so you are saying cells control genes and DNA? I didn't say anything like your ludicrous babble. Read fool. DNA/genes mutate causing cells to mutate. No one knows why. Your statement that we all carry cancer cells is made up rubbish. I have always taken life, which means cells, which includes health and fitness seriously, unlike you. I don't like that you were sick, but it doesn't make you an expert in health.
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uplift Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 2:24pm

'Anyway what is this God'

Good question sweller. Investigate the answer, keep asking, persist.

So then, whats different in you, your case with your lip, thats different to all the people that don't get the same issue, many of who spend even more time in the sun? If that can be discovered, then more about the exact cause will be known. Because no one knows, no one claims to know, or can demonstrate exactly why genes/DNA mutate, causing cells to mutate.

We all have such different recovery, immune system abilities, that can be affected by our conscious and unconscious state, maybe there's something in that, maybe not.

Get a basenji to keep the Jack Russel on its toes.

Have another snort groges, if your mission in life, is to compete against me, just come and do it, don't hide and snivvle and crawl around like a gimp, like you've done for years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and years... did I mention years? And years and... have another snort groges.

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uplift Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 2:42pm

Sneaky brutuseless, sneakily trying to change your story. You said,

'If everybody would/could understand that all of us have cancer cells,and its what triggers them into action that is different from from most diseases........'

Which isn't true. If we all understood that, we would all be believing dribble. Its a hysteria style of statement, along the lines of eggs will kill you. We all don't have cancer cells waiting to be triggered. Thats false. A cancer cell is the result of gene/DNA mutating, causing cells to mutate.

And no one claims to know exactly why the gene/DNA mutates, which is not a simple event. Who does that you know of? Thats a genuine breakthrough. They must be famous.

Great that you are saving 'lots' of others, it takes the limelight off of:

'If everybody would/could understand that all of us have cancer cells,and its what triggers them into action that is different from from most diseases........'

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grog-an Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 2:44pm

ahhhh... so upsy daisy is a god-botherer. it all becomes clear. that's why you are always bagging out science and scientists.
years and years and years and...... hey?? you are delusional.
Not competing at all. I just find people, who think they are smarter than they actually are, very entertaining. You are the most entertaining person I know!

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brutus Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 2:46pm

OK Mr Uplift..we all have cancer......which lies dormant until something triggers it into action....which can be diet ,environment ,stress......

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uplift Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 3:49pm

No, we don't all have cancer. That is the worst belief anyone could adopt and foster, in my opinion. But we all have genes/DNA that can mutate, that can produce mutated cells, that we call cancer.

Just like we all have bones that in the right circumstances for each individual person can break. We all don't carry latent, dormant broken bones, waiting to be triggered to break.

For sure stress, diet, environment are important, yet there are those that break all the 'rules', eat shit, smoke, drink, stand around in the sun, get fried, and don't get cancer. And some people try absolutely every possible angle, to the nth degree, and get it. And similarly, the treatments that were successful in others, don't work for some, despite some people giving it their best possible shot.

Blow your nose groges. Get the direction right.

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wellymon Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 3:08pm

uplift wrote:

And no one claims to know exactly why the gene/DNA mutates, which is not a simple event. Who does that you know of? Thats a genuine breakthrough. They must be famous. .'

It's gotta be GOD.........

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blindboy Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 5:19pm

We actually know quite a lot about the causes of certain cancers. Some are caused by damage to a very specific gene that stops the cell cycle before division. If the gene is damaged the cell loses contact inhibition which means it will continue to divide despite pressure from the tissue around it. In the case of lung cancers we have identified the specific compound in cigarette smoke which damages that gene. We have also identified numerous other carcinogenic compounds; asbestos, many organic pollutants, some compounds produced by grilling meat and so on. Then there are inherited forms of certain genes, such as BRAC1 and BRAC2 for breast cancer, which mutate very easily into cancer causing forms. It's not true that we all have cancerous cells in our bodies but it is true that many potentially cancerous mutations are identified and repaired during cell division. All cancers involve an interaction between specific genes and specific environmental factors. The importance of each varies from cancer to cancer and case to case. So some people, because they are particularly genetically robust (or incredibly lucky) can flout the environmental risk factors and not get cancer while others, who are genetically vulnerable, can follow all the guidelines and get cancer anyway.

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uplift Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 6:02pm

True blindboy. According to Stanford Medicine, considered elite in the field,

'The formation of tumors basically results from cell growth that gets out of control. In the human genome, there are many different types of genes that control cell growth in a very systematic, precise way. When these genes have an error in their DNA code, they may not work properly, and are said to be "altered" or mutated. An accumulation of many mutations in different genes occurring in a specific group of cells over time is required to cause malignancy. The different types of genes, that when mutated, can lead to the development of cancer are described below. Remember, it takes mutations in several of these genes for a person to develop cancer. What specifically causes mutations to occur in these genes is largely unknown. However, mutations can be caused by carcinogens (environmental factors known to increase the risk of cancer). The development of mutations is also a natural part of the aging process.'

Honing in, getting to the nitty gritty, we find,

'What specifically causes mutations to occur in these genes is largely unknown.'

This is a line repeated over and over in all cancers. No one really knows why the genes/DNA mutate.

ie. from John Hopkins team, also considered elite

'While it is virtually impossible to tell what caused a specific person to develop pancreatic cancer'

they go on, as is usually the case, 'but, and, why not, we'll say something anyway'.

http://pathology.jhu.edu/pc/BasicCauses.php?area=ba

And this is a fact. Otherwise, cancer would not be an issue.

Genes/DNA mutations, its a massive subject, and not just because of cancer, The unfortunate reality is, zillions to be made there, but in the world of sports performance, gazillions to be made, the beauty industry is where the big bucks are though.

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wellymon Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 6:29pm

blindboy wrote: We actually know quite a lot about the causes of certain cancers. Some are caused by damage to a very specific gene that stops the cell cycle before division. If the gene is damaged the cell loses contact inhibition which means it will continue to divide despite pressure from the tissue around it. In the case of lung cancers we have identified the specific compound in cigarette smoke which damages that gene. We have also identified numerous other carcinogenic compounds; asbestos, many organic pollutants, some compounds produced by grilling meat and so on. Then there are inherited forms of certain genes, such as BRAC1 and BRAC2 for breast cancer, which mutate very easily into cancer causing forms. It's not true that we all have cancerous cells in our bodies but it is true that many potentially cancerous mutations are identified and repaired during cell division. All cancers involve an interaction between specific genes and specific environmental factors. The importance of each varies from cancer to cancer and case to case. So some people, because they are particularly genetically robust (or incredibly lucky) can flout the environmental risk factors and not get cancer while others, who are genetically vulnerable, can follow all the guidelines and get cancer anyway.

Well said BB, so true.
Everyone of us are different.
Wholesome food and happiness goes along way :)

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uplift Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 7:20pm

'Wholesome food and happiness goes along way :)'

Don't forget 'luck'.

Yes 'luck', and, as recorded by several astute statisticians, in the fight against the evil egg syndrome (syndrome eg,) I have to live with yet another 'incredible' accolade added to the ever bigger list. 'Big, 'Incredible', 'Lucky' Lifty', aka 'The Lucky Big Boy'. 'Big Boy Zap'.

Laughter is the best medicine (don't blame me, I didn't make it up, believe it or not).

Still, the happiness is not complete... who am I kidding. I can barely keep a straight face... nothing to do with cancer, but, the sight of the dawg, a rusty iron dropper in the paddock, a generous length of salivated, dripping, slimy, chewed rope, the 'tanglin' dawg, having unwittingly gone round and round and round and round, and round, did I say round... and round, tied up in knots by his own lead, a kicked over water bowl, a kicked over, trampled food plate, looking, callin', and callin' and callin', forlornly, longingly at his master... 'stoooooooouuuuuwwwww'... 'oh what a tangled web'.

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wellymon Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 8:49pm

Forgot the buried bone.......!
Which I'm sure he didn't .

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Sheepdog Friday, 18 Apr 2014 at 8:57pm

Hey, welly... What's that other scar..... on the left side.... And whats with the blonde thin minge growth.... That's my look..... except for the reverse hitler..... wot a stupid fuckn concept...

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wellymon Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 6:40am

Knife fight against the Mayans in California.

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Sheepdog Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 8:30am

Ohh FFS! You don't watch that garbage do you???? lol

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uplift Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 5:38pm

'Forgot the buried bone.......!
Which I'm sure he didn't .'

Cruel, you just had to pay him a visit to remind him about the bone didn't you. And of course you accidently left the glove box open, letting the stinking little Jack Russell sink the final boot in.

Poor dawg.

STTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWwwwwwwwwww...

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simba Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 5:55pm

cracking me up

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wellymon Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 5:59pm

Thats Gold Uppy...:)
The fucking bone is bigger than the the little "Jack"
Classic

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wellymon Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 6:01pm

Sheepdog wrote: Ohh FFS! You don't watch that garbage do you???? lol

Obviously you have Sheepio.....? Hahahahha

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Sheepdog Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 6:53pm

I know Kyle sandilands was on x factor too, doesn't mean I watch it buttchin :)

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wellymon Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 8:25pm

Kyle sandilands, ,,,?
Who's that person Sheepio,
Got me stumped now, just like Sir Richard Hadlee...

Buttchin...?
Hang on a minute "Ranga Teeth like the bottom jaw of a dog"

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Sheepdog Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 8:24pm

hahaha...... Didn't know Hadlee bowled spin......

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wellymon Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 8:26pm

Hows That...?

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Sheepdog Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 9:14pm

heheheeee... At least they're my teeth, not falseys.... And I can always close my mouth, but you can't close that chin ;) Alot of people wish I'd keep my mouth shut hahahahaaaaa........

"Hows that?" NOT OUT!!!! lol Um Hadlee was a fast bowler..... Not too may stumpings come off fast bowling.... Usually stumpings happen against spin bowling.....

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trippergreenfeet Saturday, 19 Apr 2014 at 9:26pm

Those bumchins are a real bugger eh welly, not much ya can do about bum genes. Ya can always grow a beard, works for me, hahaha. Butt then I'm stuck with a grey chin, puts ten years on my dial...those fuckin genes strike again well before time!

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wellymon Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 8:18am

"Staying Alive", Pulp Fiction etc

John Travolta has the butt gene, girls love it TGF :)

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Sheepdog Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 10:50am

John Travolta????? Hmmm... Bad example Welly :p

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wellymon Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 2:57pm

Ummmm not sure about that !!!!!!!!! Sheepio.
Your barking up the wrong tree there fella, go find ya bone.

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Sheepdog Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 3:33pm

Travolta's the one that likes a bit of bone, mate.... Just jokes welly, handle it..... lol
Now this is a decent chin, and he throws a good uppercut too :p

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wellymon Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 3:48pm

OMG Sheepio, looks like you stayed out of the sun for awhile champ :p
You're still buzzin after yesterdays surf :)

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Sheepdog Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 4:16pm

Love the chicken, welly..... Best fight scene ever........

Was out for about hour and a 1/2.... Had me hoody on AND a surf hat on top!!! Zinked face. 4/3 steamer.....Looked like a total gherkin, but no one there to see me hehehehe..... Freakn uncomfortable.. When duckdiving the hat is a real pissoff..... But got some beautys..... Sore today..... limping old dog but happy dog....... No surf today..... one day wonder swell.....

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mitchvg Sunday, 20 Apr 2014 at 8:52pm

Hey SD, good to hear. Booties too, or is the hood for sun protection? Also, what zinc do you use?

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Sheepdog Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 12:32pm

mitchvg - hood and hat for sun protection... Mind you, hood is toasty warm.... Got gloves for when it gets really cold, also wear thin sleeveless springy under 4/3 during super cold.... Hate booties.... Fuckn hate 'em.... Zincstick 30+....Also have banana boat cream - "kids" cream - no preservatives.....

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wellymon Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 2:00pm

"kids" cream.....?

Puppy cream :) Teething ah Ranga teeth, get some Smackos, Dawgs go wacko's with ................

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Sheepdog Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 2:08pm

Ya dick, welly.... :) My vet... whoops, my dentist has had a run with the big c too.. Like you, he had one cut out of his lip, heaps on his face... Also had a stage 2 melanoma..... Being a dentist, he is filthy rich... His hobby is flying his plane.... Reckons alot of the facial cancers are from flying..... Above the clouds.... Top mounted canopy.... He reckons that since he started using the bananaboat kids cream (pink packaging) about 8 years ago, a remarkable improvement has occured with his skin.... Hasn't been diagnosed with one facial cancer since.... Not even a sunspot...... Maybe a coincidence, but worth a try.....
Now wipe ya chin..... You got shit on it......

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wellymon Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 2:23pm

Might have to get that product Sheepio, cheers.

"Now wipe ya chin..... You got shit on it......" Uuuummmm I'm not sure about that.........!

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mitchvg Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 3:56pm

Haha never worn booties surfing, but they seem to be the most hated piece of equipment. I reckon the hooods look more uncomfortable. Cheers for the tip, I'll give that sunscreen now we're into Autumn, but I'll keep zincing up on the nose at least

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Sheepdog Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 4:05pm

mitchvg- the lip mate..... Look at wellys photo..... Look at mine.... Dont forget the lip....

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mitchvg Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 4:25pm

of course, how could I forget. I'm usually a 100% facial cover person actually. trying to see what combos might also work. Does Zincstick hang on to the lips the best?

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Sheepdog Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 4:49pm

Ya sorta gotta let it set for a while.... It shits me off that all the zinc cream makers have made them do runny.. Back in the old days, pink zinc was like "clay".....

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Blowin Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 6:29pm

Sheepdog , I'm a fan of Bronzinc. Stays on, nice firm viscosity even in the tropics, great protection though a thorough coat will leave you looking like Barbara Cartland circa 1998.

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strawbs Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 7:08pm

Have to agree Sheepdog old school pink zink was real thick and pretty much bullet proof , it was a bastard to get off when you were going to hit the town that night though . I did a quick trip to indo recently and forgot my lip sunscreen , luckily i had a lip mosturiser, so i cut off a a piece with a knife chopped it up and mixed in a 50 -50 mix with banana boat face sunscreen , it did the job , BB faces is great never been burnt with it , i am fair skinned and shaved head , the keratosis on the back of my hands seem to recede if i to rub sunscreen on them every surf . I normally use a nivea lip sunblock , its greasy but it stays on .

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Sheepdog Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 8:05pm

Cheers, strawbs... Mate, don't fuck around with solar keratosis..... They are pre cancerous, of the squamous cell carcinoma variety....... Get a small punch biopsy to confirm it is solar keratosis.... If so, get them frozen off by your gp or dermatologist..... If it is a large area of keratosis, aldara has been know to work as well....
ps - I like your "macgyver" job in Indo..... Good work.... :)

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mitchvg Monday, 21 Apr 2014 at 8:19pm

hmmm so let's get back to basics here...
Zinc is a physical barrier
Sunscreen is a chemical barrier?

With the moisturiser/screen mix, why not just put the sunscreen straight on the lips? Does the lip balm stick to the lips better? I wouldn't imagine that lip balm and zinc stick to skin by the same mechanism?

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mitchvg Wednesday, 7 May 2014 at 3:03pm

Sheepy, sorry I haven't read this entire thread, as it was carried vertically on a wind draft. I wanna ask though, is not getting sunburnt a reason not to wear zinc/sunscreen? I've heard there's no such thing as a 'healthy tan'.

So at this time of year, if you're only out for half an hour in the morning, can that still cause damage? And is there some kind of balance between...I don't wanna get skin cancer, but I don't wanna put all these chemicals all over my skin?

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Sheepdog Wednesday, 7 May 2014 at 5:21pm

Mitch, Blindboy brought up the "luck factor", which is true.... How else do you explain Keith Richards from The Rolling Stones, or Lemmy Kilmister :)
Man, i grew up in an era when peeling the off the dead skin was "cool".... Massive bubbles on your back.... Mangled lips.... Not just surfing, but generally mucking around with your mates - cricket, fishing, sunstroke headaches..... Burnt retinas.... Didn't give it a second thought......
Moderation, man..... You might have the "lucky gene".... All well and good... But it's a gamble... Being a SE Qdler, I'd say you are starting to feel the cold now hehehe..... So, this "time of year", a thin long sleeve springy sorts your arms out..... Your legs spend most of the time dangling underwater.... Only time I've had the back of my legs burnt is in high summer, laying on my board, when it's tiny and waiting ages for a wave.... So no issues there..... In summer, a long sleeve rashy will take care of the arms....

So, really, we are only left with "the head"..... Up in Qld, you are still gonna cop the "double whammy" in the morning during winter- The sun AND its reflection off the water as it rises..... The sun is slightly to the north, and it is no coincidence that the left side of my face has copped the brunt of skin cancers, similar to a truck driver who's right arm that hangs out the window gets more sun damage than his left...
Banana boat is pretty good - no paraben.
You can also get common garden variety zinc.... comes in a jar..... Thick as.... But only comes in white....

Man, if you are only out there for 1/2 hour, and it's like 6.45 am - 7.15 am, I wouldn't sweat it..... But you know, if you get a decent winter swell, and you are out there say 8am -11.30am, well a bit of sunscreen would be worthwhile..... Cheers....

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zenagain Wednesday, 7 May 2014 at 8:09pm

I generally try not to endorse too much on Swellnet but the best sunscreen I've ever used and still use now is called 'Headhunter'. I think it might be American and not sure if you can get it in Oz. Goes in easily and lasts for ages. Doesn't sting your eyes either. Banana boat is good but I think this headhunter stuff is made specifically for surfing. One big tube lasts a couple of years.

Also, 'aged' zinc is the go for nose , lips and my protruding ape-like forehead.

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mitchvg Wednesday, 7 May 2014 at 11:28pm

Thanks Sheepy and Zen. The Headhunter site looks good actually. Not sure about the 'aged' gear though?

Yeah the summer rashie is a toughie I reckon. I find that a tight fitting rashie usually rolls up an inch above my boardies. But a large t-shirt (with sunny on arms of course) kind of sticks to the boardies and is annoying. And I'm pretty weak with the cold, so I'm already in a steamer sth of the border. The last skin cancer specialist doc I saw (couple weeks ago, froze off what seems to be a seborrheic keratosis) siad I have good skin.

So for those quick earlies, I think I will keep up with a bit of zinc anyway. But what I really wanted to know is:

Is not being sunburnt (even without peeling), an ok indicator of being 'safe' from the sun?
And if not (i.e. you get skin damage even without being sunburnt) how do you know if a thorough coating of zinc/sunny is overkill?