Submitted by factotum on Thu, 11/21/2019 - 14:21
For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.
Interesting Andy, care to opine on what could unite Australians?
Genuinely interested, as short of a war with an external enemy, I can't think of anything.
I see several barriers:
- We need the far right to move past their anti-intellectualism. Science is apolitical, facts are facts.
- We need to remove the influence of big money from politics. Australia is largely governed (I believe) for the interests of a few big donors, not the average Australian.
- We need proper anti-corruption measures in federal parliament. With proper consequences for politicians, no slap on the wrist / fine on the way their high paying consultancy job, which purely by coincidence is in the same field as their previous ministerial role.
I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of a great way to express them right now.
This lad was charged with....wait for it....nothing. Could the cop have picked a worse time to do this knowing you're also being filmed. Yes, plenty crew get on the wrong end of the schtick...but that's possibly just sweeping it under the carpet. Easy solutions...and why are all these people upset about George Flloyd? Plenty of white fellas get killed by cops too. So i guess there's no problem and people are just upset over nothing and 'blackfellas' have it good and should shut up and stop complaining? What is all this fracas???????
Good one Andy .
Old mate Stan hits a few nails on the heads.
The US sure is the Divided States of America. There really is no real United left.
Identity Politics, you can't live with it, you can't live without it.
I don't think what is happening in terms of looting and criminality will occur anywhere near the levels that is occurring in the US. I just don't see that. They have way more to be pissed off about than us....and they've got guns. Lots of guns.
(Sighs and acknowledges to self how glad I am to be living in Australia.)
Dunno JQ, I've got my little dreams but that's all they are, especially in view of our current system.
I think the three points you've made above are crucial but you think they're going to happen?
We all know they need to but how does it come about?
We're in such a fucking bind it's unbelievable.
Add to this that "we're all individuals" and the problem worsens.
At the same time, wouldn't be in the US for anything.
Surely they're fucked and this is the end of the beginning of the end and they're into the start of the next phase.
Cops gonna cop, hey?
Not called Repressive State Apparatus for nowt.
ACAB. MDC. FTP.
“The dog leg. That dog had four legs. One you found in my trunk. The other three went out with the information you're thinking about right now. Two people you don't want coming around here if anything bad happens to me.”
You forgot about the left?
Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.
I was lucky enough to live in the USA for much of the 90s when it was at it's best. There was no wars, the economy was strong, and people respected differences. The country changed when Fox News started in 1996 and bastards like Newt Gingrich, Roger Ailes, and Rush Limbaugh started to flex their muscles.
I was shocked by the amount of anti-semitism and casual racism, and I was in one of the most progressive places in the country.
Bush left the country broke, at war, and vulnerable. Obama improved the reputation of the USA on the international stage and repaired the economy, but he simply didn't change the underlining problems facing the country. To be fair, Obama was hamstrung by the Republicans and the media commentary by Fox and Co was just so divisive.
And then Trump took over and weaponised racial tension. His administration is a law unto themselves, and the USA has become an international joke. The country is siding into a dictatorship and nobody could be surprised if there isn't an orderly transition of power when that orange shit stain on democracy gets removed from office.
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
No Indo, of the 3 points I made I attribute the last two to both the left and right of politics in Australia.
Although I consider the first point the most crucial flaw that needs attention.
Both Labor and Liberal are pitifully weak on the concept of a federal ICAC, it's one of the few things they seem bipartisan on, that and shitting on the privacy of the Australian people.
For what it's worth Indo, I would say one of the greatest flaws in left wing politics in Australia is that they pay too much attention to extremely noisy grievance groups born in university activism.
The difficulty is many of these groups do have legitimate grievances that do require attention. It's just that they get extremely worked up and aggressive about it. These groups have an outsized voice that is misinterpreted by politicians as reflective of the average Australian, when it just isn't.
When these views make their way into politics it alienates the average Australian person, this sows division and makes people angrier.
Certainly my experiences meeting people in these groups (Gay/Lesbian etc, Immigrants, Religious people, Environmentalists et al) is that the vast, huge majority of them are no where near as extreme as the voices you hear and see in the media.
JQ as I keep saying, you're first point absolutely applies to the so-called left as well, sections of it are hugely anti-intellectual and I don't think they even realise it.
Care to cite some examples Andy?
And whats this 'so-called' business?
This is one of my pet hates so I feel like I've gone over this before but when I talk about the anti-intellectual left or the regressive left I'm talking about those that see themselves as progressive but have beliefs such as anti-vax, anti sunscreen, anti 5G, and at the same time pro "alternative medicine", pro "I can create my own reality" etc etc, basically anti science, reason, evidence and established fact.
And so, if you accept that part of the definition of the "political left" includes being progressive, then I'm saying that the kind of thinking I've mentioned above is not progressive and rather is regressive and hence the "so-called left". I agree that the way I phrased it in my earlier post isn't very clear.
Of course there's still a regular old left still out there, I think it's just been bastardised to an extent :)
Ah ok Andy, I see where you're coming from here.
I guess you could call those anti-vax, anti sunscreen, anti 5G etc etc type progressive. They certainly would hold a lot of progressive positions, but I feel like they borrow a bit from right wing politics, particularly the narrow concept of personal freedom. e.g that anti-vaccine ideas are based in some notion of freedom of choice, when really it's just garden variety stupidity.
Yes, I guess regressive left is a fair description of these groups.
I would point out, how ever, that (as far as I know) none of these particular things are represented in parliament. While we have many members on the right who deny AGW.
They might hold some progressive positions but they're pretty compromised, there's significant hypocrisy involved.
And the narrow tolerance granted by the regressive left, their muddied idea of personal freedom, their hostility to dissent all leads them away from being (small-l) liberal and towards the illiberal.
And unfortunately it's increasingly difficult to sway them with reason.
Yes your point still stands, combatting anti-intellectualism in politics is crucial, and where it's manifesting itself amongst positions of real power is in the LNP/right wing, though I believe that level of ignorance is actually largely a sham driven by money - in a basic sense they know what's going on but they don't care.
Pretty compromised? I've seen no evidence of coherent thought whatsoever.
The only coherent thread I've seen is a general anti-establishment one but that seems to include the anti-science as well.
Baby and bathwater.
Anti-establishment but pro-conformist and pro-fashion/trend.
For self-proclaimed free thinkers they really are a bunch of sheep.
Yep basically it's a mess.
The last vid at the end worth a look if you’ve seen the John John stuff already.
Edited my post.
G7 is a US gig and it looks set for a shake up with Oz in the frame.
1973 - (G4) US / W Germany / France / UK
1973 - (G5) Japan
1975 - (G6) Italy
1976 - (G7) Canada
1998 - (G8) Russia
2008 - Australia was invited by Japan to attend G8 summit.https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-invited-to-g8-summit-20080318-...
2014 - (G7) Russia (Rejected)
2019 - Australia (Spain / India) invited by France to attend G7 summit.https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/influential-australia-should-join-th...
2020 - US advocate for Russia to re-join. (Canada has rejected Russia's inclusion)
2020 - US invites Australia (Russia / India / South Korea)
2nd June (pm) It is believed Trump phoned Aust PM re: Invitation to the Club.
(Labelled as US default China Containment Club)
For those interested in the state of financial play regarding the university sector, and specific universities in particular.
The skullduggery has begun re: EA ballots and calls for 'necessary' reduction in pay and conditions, and/or wide-scale unemployment.
Facto, you can add to that the cancellation of all leave and sabatticals by at least one group A uni a couple of months ago.
He who hesitates is lost
All eyes are on La Trobe Uni at the moment. Obviously university staff there as well as more broadly, but more worryingly Universities Australia and other university VCs.
Workers at La Trobe will vote in coming days on whether to approve a serious attack on wages and conditions. The clauses released by management show a significant cut in wages, the trashing of protections around major change and restructures, and no enforceable guarantees against the widespread attack on jobs that management at La Trobe have become known for in recent years.
Never waste a crisis?
Funny but earlier, some university managers had shot themselves somewhat in the foot in the Corporate Media.
Who's going to 'try it on'?
The job losses at Universities are terrible. But it’s not like tertiary education exists in isolation. The job losses throughout the broader economy are just as heart felt.
If the Universities were serious about their mandate and their social contract to operate within our community, then they’d be abandoning the lobbying of government to reinstate the international student Ponzi and instead lobbying for increased direct government funding .
This alleviates so many problems in one stroke . Unfortunately it seems that the university hierarchy is more wedded to the extraneous financial benefits associated with the mass importation of warm bodies than they are with accessing the funding necessary to just teach and research.
As Stu said elsewhere, the University system is central to the evolution of our economy and society away from the farming of humans and towards a higher value , less environmentally impactful version. We desperately need the knowledge and research abilities of the universities. What we don’t need is for them to be nothing more than ticket-clippers as we march into a future of unsustainable over population.
A return to government funding is the answer . Energy and time spent pursuing the self interest of the University corporates with their relentless focus on student volumes flown in to fill university owned accomodation complexes is not just counterproductive, it comes with a price tag left for the rest of the nation to pay.
Every time you see a university spokesperson insisting on immediate return to excessive international student numbers you are watching someone argue against the interest of the country. Government funding should be the target approached with laser focus.
I was playing the Swellnet forum drinking game the other day and drew "blowin" and "Ponzi scheme".
Ended up getting my stomach pumped by 9.30am.
We get it blowin, you don't like international people coming to Australia. And spare us your faux concern for academic job losses. It's what you've been arguing for for years on this forum.
"But it’s not like tertiary education exists in isolation."
You do understand ScoMo didn't extend the JobKeeper scheme to tertiary education, right?
Right now they are 'in isolation'.
And the reason universities don't lobby the government is because they did that twenty years ago when Howard drew the sword on it, and except for the brief flicker of Labor 2007-2012, the LNP has been in power since. Abbott even start defunding CSIRO for fuck's sake.
This is old, old news.
Your solution doesn't in any way address reality. The LNP wants tertiary education as good as gone - Australia is a quarry, a blank canvas for the White Shoe Brigade, a comfort stop for profit-shifting fossil fuel companies.
This is their assasin's moment.
"You do understand ScoMo didn't extend the JobKeeper scheme to tertiary education, right?"
maybe the modelling said those jobs weren't worth keeping ie. unviable in the new climate
I dare say it would, most convincingly...
I reckon this is the case across the board, and a fundamental flaw of 'jobkeeper ' more widely. their plan for a 'bridge to the other side'. its a holdng pattern, no vision, a bridge to nowhere...
the sooner the government narrows that shit down the better
they need to be investing in this new economy that will develop, not propping up a broken model
Worse than that, Stunet, they changed the rules regarding JobKeeper three times to purposefully exclude universities.
Well, not ALL universities.
I think this points to what direction this government would like to see tertiary education head towards.
And while we witness what is going on in the United (!) States on the streets right now, ponder this little piece of the pie re: universities over there:
NOW there's something to aspire to!
'Aspirational' Aussies unite and erm... keep voting the way you do!?
Stu...the universities are making their own bed.
Their expert opinions could be applied to devastating effect if they were honest about the downsides of mass immigration. Virtually any position the government wants to take requires a modicum of academic backing.
If the university sector was honest and fostered the necessary discussion Australia needs to have about its population targets then the public would be much more liable to vote for the party which addresses this problem.
Who knows , it might even force the ALP to concede that endless growth is not doing Australia any favours and is not a realistic outcome due to environmental constraints if nothing else.
Not just that , but universities are responsible for sowing the seeds of ideology. If academia is proactive in their responsibility to provide a framework for population targets , students will realise that this is an essential and honest consideration and no longer be indoctrinated in the neoliberal sophistry that population targets are racist or in humane.
Universities are part of our nation . They stand to suffer as much as the rest of us when our country is overwhelmed with people. It is a risk they need to take by getting in front of this discussion as it completely contradicts their current corporate impulse.
The universities have a responsibility to take the bold stand and force the issue. Bring the discussion out into the spotlight.
This is the sort of bold action which can bring about changes in society, not setting fire to cars , looting shops and senseless violence deployed against innocent people. The academia of Australia has a unique position and strength which should be wielded for the betterment of the country, not set aside so the management can enrich themselves.
You appear not to understand what it is universities do, how they present research, and also any of their recent history since Howard got in.
What you want them to do is create propaganda for your ideal world.
Hey, it's my ideal world too, however I understand that universities don't work like the Ministry of Information. They don't pump out data to fit pre-conceived ideas and agendas.
What you've proposed is not a university at all.
Disclosure: One of the subjects my wife is teaching this semester is in human geography and the carrying capacity of Australia. It's far more nuanced than what many people would like it to be - for one, who's gonna pay for retirees? - but her own take is to limit population.
Doesn't matter though. She doesn't have a job next semester, nor acess to JobKeeper.
Double disclosure: A research project on transitioning Illawarra coal miners into new industries as the mines automate or close also had the funding pulled. I know that because..?
Yeah, and still no JobKeeper.
But lots of pie in the sky stuff about, "the way things should be."
I think Blowin wants universities to become PR organisations for Hanson's revolution for white people.
Blowie old chap, you obviously spent some time composing that heartfelt piece, but...how can I put this delicately so as not to upset your fragile nature...
what a bizarre load of old cobblers.
Maybe, with all the time on your hands, instead of being on here, and cut & pasting nonsense from the cut & paste MacroBollocks site, say, (enough 'Ponzi' and 'Manchurian Dan' bingo already!), you could have a crack at uni yourself!!!!
Yes, lots of pathways these days. Never easier to have a go to get a go!!!!
Support an Aussie 'industry'!!!!
But get in quick, before it all goes tits*!!!!
*not to be confused with 'titbits'
“This tragedy – in a long series of similar tragedies – raises a long overdue question: How do we end systemic racism in our society?”
- George W Bush.
We are truly living in some bizarre fucking times.
I'll never forget his dramatic reading of "The Pet Goat"
OK, Uni sector - you guys trained me so I do have a passing interest, how bad will it be for the Uni sector?
You're the numbers man...apparently. Read the Uni of Melbourne report above and crunch away, VJ.
And with the cut of this government's jib, things look even bleaker.
State TEE Maths exhibition, so yes to an extent
Thanks, will do, also I think it was talked about a bit on the other thread? Read through that after making question, answers eg Stu and Andy and yourself, cheers
Whoa, Fig 3 in your first link:
"Figure 3 Proportion of 2018 Expenditure in relation to the 2018 Cash and Investments
held by Australian Universities "
(not good at posting pics)
The UWA figure of 1.00 is good, but what happens if they lose their approx 16% international student intake? And they look conservatively run on the numbers. Go UWA. 'Seek Wisdom'. 'Know Thyself'.
How are the unis in this situation after a decade of booming income? Articles over last few years have been very approving of their business model.
Bond Uni has 38% international full time students & were absent from the list.
Bond believes it now qualifies & will apply after recent JobKeeper amendments.https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/bond-university-on-track...
Scomo's coronavirus handouts restricted to Private Schools (Only)
29 April $3.3b to private schools open by start of June.(25% > 2021 advance )
20 May $10m to clean covid -19 school germs
2020 (Total Oz Schools funding $21.8b)
Public - $8.7b - (66% enrollment )
Private - $13.1b + ($3.3b advance) + $10m = $16.41b -(34% enrollment)
Note: Reports quote more Private funding than shown here...(Enough already!)
Scomo's class of 2020 gets twice the money for one third the students. [Detention]
Apprenticeships are hardest hit under coronavirus + Libs = (Double Whammy)
Generally those of lesser wealth or grades are steered towards the trade route.
Apprenticeship Trigger Points Timeline
2003 -2006 - GST 'effect' drops < > levels out Apprentice intake > 400,000 yr
2007-2013 - Labor slowly up intake to 515,000 yr (Highest Apprentice figures)
2014-2019 - Libs [visa] Slave Era > Apprenticeships fall every year to 270,000
2020 - Coronavirus 100,000 laid off + 100,000 non uptake of Apprenticeships
2021 - Apprentices (Estimated) 70,000 + ( 1-200,000 ? No Govt commitment.)
note : (Lib's Apprenticeship record) [visa] Slaves are most likely to fill positions.
re: Table shows - Lib's Extra 200,000 skill shortage = [visa] slave allowance .
Health profession best examples 30% Oz trained Nurses (No Jobs) > 10,000 [visas]
Cheaper to pay Highly Skilled whistleblower Aussies to stay at home.
Hire less skilled, non English speaking Slaves to not answer the phones.
Chart shows...Libs are dead set running down Oz trade skills for missionary slaves.
Jobz 4 Growth! War-cry masks Lib's vile hatred of the Aussie working class.
Public / Uni students & Apprentices have had their education halved under Libs.
The wealthy with their pet Missionary Slaves have their opportunities doubled..
* * South Pacific Mission Polls Skyrocket **
TBB, I hear ya! Testify, brother.
Now for those with a historical bent and some curiosity, yesterday was the day, back in 1943, of the 'Zoot Suit Riots' in the US.
The more things change etc etc
Zoot!! Definitely not the scooting type. Gangster bloodlines revealed...feathers and chains.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
From the truly ridiculous above, to...THIS.
The full transcript of the above:
"I'm always gonna be your black friend, aren't I? That's all anybody ever sees.
I'm never just an actor. I'm an Indigenous actor. I love reppin', but I don't hear old Joe Bloggs being called quite white Anglo-Saxon actor.
I'm always in the black show, the black play.
I'm always the angry one, the tracker, the drinker, the thief.
Sometimes I want to be seen for my talent, not my skin colour, not my race.
I hate being a token. Some box to tick, part of some diversity angle.
"What are you whingeing for? You're not a real one anyway. You're only part."
What part, then? My foot? My arm? My leg? You're either black or you're not.
You want to do a DNA test? Come suck my blood.
"How are we to move forward if we dwell on the past?" That's your privilege. You get to ask that question. Ours is we can dance and we're good at sport.
You go to weddings, we go to funerals.
No, no, no, you're not your ancestors. It's not your fault you have white skin, but you do benefit from it.
You can be OK. I have to be exceptional. I mess up, I'm done. There's no path back for me. There's no road to redemption.
Being black and successful comes at a cost. You take a hit whether you like it or not. Because you want your blacks quiet and humble.
You can't stand up, you have to sit down. Ask the brother-boy Adam Goodes.
A kid says some racist shit — not ignorant — racist. Calling a black fella an ape?
C'mon man we was flora and fauna before 1967, nah actually we didn't even exist at all.
This was a learning moment. He taught that kid a lesson.
Didn't like that? A black man standing up for himself? Nah, they didn't like that.
"Shut up, boy, you stay in your lane. Any time you touch a ball, we're gonna boo your arse."
So he showed them a scary black, throwing imaginary spears and shit.
Did they like that? They didn't like that. Every arena and stadium booed him.
"It's because of the way the flog plays football." Bullshit. No-one booed him the way they booed him until he stood up and said something about race.
The second he stood up, everybody came out of the woodworks to give him shit. And he's supposed to sit there and take it? I'll tell you right now, Adam Goodes has taken it, his whole life he's taken it. I've taken it.
No matter what, no matter how big, how small, I'll get some racist shit on a weekly basis and I'll take it.
It used to be in your face, "Ya boong, ya black dog, coon", kind of shit.
"I'm gonna chase ya down the ditch with my baseball bat", skinhead shit when I was 14 years old.
"Nah, we're progressive, now, we'll give you the small, subtle shit." The shit that's always been there. Not the obvious, in-your-face shit. It's the "we can't be seen to be racist" kind of shit.
Security guard following me around the store, asking to search my bag.
Walking up to the counter first being served, second or third or last kind of shit.
Or hailing down a cab and watching it slow down to look at my face and then drive off. More than once. More than twice. More than once-twice on any one occasion — yeah, that shit, I'll get weekly.
Sometimes I'll get days in a row if I'm really lucky.
And that's the kind of shit I let them think they're getting away with.
To be honest, I can't be bothered. I can't be bothered teaching their ignorant arses on a daily basis. I don't have the energy or the enthusiasm.
It's exhausting, and I like living my life.
But on occasion, when you caught me on a bad day where I don't feel like taking it, I'll give you that angry black you've been asking for and I'll tear you a new asshole.
Not because of that one time, because of my whole life.
At least Adam danced and they still pissed and moaned. But it's not about that one time, it's about all those times.
And seeing us as animals, that shit needs to stop.
Black deaths in custody, that shit needs to stop.
I don't want to be what you want me to be. I want to be what I want to be.
Never trade your authenticity for approval.
Be crazy, take a risk, be different, offend your family.
Call them out.
Silence is violence. Complacency is complicity.
I don't want to be quiet. I don't want to be humble. I don't want to sit down."
"I'm never just an actor. I'm an Indigenous actor. I love reppin', but I don't hear old Joe Bloggs being called quite white Anglo-Saxon actor."
Pretty hard to have it both ways but that's identity politics in a nutshell.
That's your takeaway, hey Andy?
"No matter what, no matter how big, how small, I'll get some racist shit on a weekly basis and I'll take it.
"Nah, we're progressive, now, we'll give you the small, subtle shit." The shit that's always been there. Not the obvious, in-your-face shit. It's the "we can't be seen to be racist" kind of shit."
Helluva 'performance' too. And he wrote it!
"Many intelligent Black men seemed
To look uncivilized when on the screen
Like, I guess I figure you to play some jigaboo
On the plantation, what else can a nigger do
And Black women in this profession
As for playing a lawyer, out of the question
For what they play Aunt Jemima is the perfect term
Even if now she got a perm
So let's make our own movies like Spike Lee
Cause the roles being offered don't strike me
As nothing that the black man could use to earn
Burn Hollywood burn"
facto's '...best two minutes of australia ever...' is full of contradictions...
(obviously invisible to the initiated)
didn't think platforming neighbours was up to your usual 'edgelord' schtick either...
..but, whatever tickles ya spot...