Interesting things too

factotum's picture
factotum started the topic in Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:21pm

For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.

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Westofthelake Saturday, 25 Apr 2020 at 11:43am

THE PRESIDENT: "Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me."

You know the right guy* is in charge of the world's most powerful country when chemical makers need to publish disclaimers after his press conferences.


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AndyM Saturday, 25 Apr 2020 at 12:33pm

How could I forget Redgum, just about the most political band of the 80s??

With John Schuman, Democrats speechwriter and candidate.

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Cromwell Saturday, 25 Apr 2020 at 1:23pm

What about this band Andy?
Jezebel - The Drones


Removed from milk
Is as curious an entity
As bullshit writ on silk

Cancer's airborne now
Do you hear the sound?
I was hanging out the washing, man
As the rain came falling down

Now the grass like snakes
Has crowns of iodine and fire
On Jezebel's luminescence
I swear you are my heart's desire

Bombproof the embassy
Give infanticide a cemetery
You looked so good on the late night news
With your curtain and your deed

Yeah, I love you like a violin
I'll hunt you like an amputee
But I don't want to lose my skin
I would love to see you again

You wrote me a letter
And this is how it read:
It said, "We're backing up the supply lines
The first division's crossin' the Nile
Through the rushes and up the side
And into the machine gun fire"
Tell me that this is not a dream
I've become a steel spring
Uranium tips, night vision cruise missiles
Gonna cut the belly out of the sky

I rode an Abrams
We stopped in Bethlehem
They made the answers here
But there weren't so many questions then
And there I shot a woman
In a headscarf with my gun
She said, "Does my bomb look big in this?
Am I the only one?"

I was in the Blitz, you know
When my heart was young and true
I had a Caesarean, but it was not any use

Oh, calamity! Oh, the vanity!
You can't ride a thunderbolt
You can't claim an enemy

There ain't nothing here
Except a darkness, Lord
I ain't gonna fail no test
I gave my dowry to a finger on a switch

Turn me to a fine pink mist

But I ain't nothing but
A stranger still
If I'm even anyone at all
But I ain't gonna lose my skin
I would love to see you again

But that ain't gonna happen now
It's no use to pretend

How many people gonna die?
How many people gonna lie?
What's best for the West and the greed?
Kill 'em all? Let 'em breed?
Another bomb for every atom you injure
Meet the Devil with extended ring finger
Saying "thou shalt not kill"
But I'm damned if I don't
So I'm thinking I will

Yeh Dan Pearl
They cut your head off on TV
But I am not a camera
A man is not an effigy
But still all of this horror
Has made a trench out of my soul
I'm gonna have to fall in love with a blind girl
So she will not see the same that I know
Oh new scar
You have raised the bar
Goliath rides an oil drum raft
Through a cyclone in my ear drums
You don't want a tyrant
We're sure, you'd prwefer a civil war
And I am gonna to lose my skin
I ain't gonna see you again

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Johknee Saturday, 25 Apr 2020 at 9:07pm

Two good songs Indo

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Pupkin Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 9:19pm
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Westofthelake Thursday, 30 Apr 2020 at 8:20pm

Man I love this woman.

The NZ PM might not look as good in her camos as she does in this pic, but the lesbo may have a point....


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inzider Friday, 1 May 2020 at 8:09am

Her husband holds the baby

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truebluebasher Wednesday, 6 May 2020 at 9:40am

[ Life During Wartime ] tbb is doing his bit for the war effort...

Rude uncaring Pandemic stalls Scomo's Stoic War Led Recovery.

Australia Needs You for the [ The Great Information Warfare ]
PM: We can kill (More Together) with New ** *Starshots **
Download the Hillsong Laser app for full pentecostal the weekend.

(TV: PM is not exploiting Covert Pandemic for an insensitive egotistical War rort)

* More Together


* Information Warfare (* ** Starshots* *) Pew Pew PEW! pew Pew! Pew.

* Kindy to Uni Warmongers

* Star Wars (Blotting out the Stars in the night sky.)

* Strategic Pillar for Military School

* Chemical Warfare (Covert-30)

* How to wash $Billion Subs thru $Trillion Liberal Party Laundry.

* Help us Blow your money on Scomo's Stoic War Effort

* Funnelling all wages thru Liberal Party's unaccountable blown out War Kitty.

PM: "Is cradle to grave conversion into Brian's Borg Academy complete Soldier !"

* ** ' Yes Sir ! **...Sorry Sir! ***...I mean Yes Siree PM Sir ! ' * ***

PM: "I Love the smell of Brian's farts in the morning!"

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truebluebasher Monday, 11 May 2020 at 11:00pm

~~~/(Covid Crime Wave Wipeout...
Covid finds it hard to play the villain...
Clean skies, clear blue water, animals roaming free & now solves crime!

It's just plain insane it is!

First up! Interpol cracked down on 121 Covid miracle cures in 90 countries..
Not sure if this includes OZ Covid SAFE app. (tbb is being serious!)

Mexico can't get enough nasty chems from China to poison the World.
Mexico crime rate dropped 81 to 54 a day (It's a start!)
El Salvador murders are down from 600/day to 2/day.
Peru - 84% drop in crime...

South Africa:(Month - Last year Stats)
Rape -700 >101 / Assault -2673 > 456 / Murder -326 > 94

US - 42% Down (Drugs) > (DV up 5%)
US (Regions) - Crime
NYC - 12% Down
L A - 30% Down
Chicago - 42% Down

UK - 28% Down > Burglary 37% / Rape 37% (DV up 3%)

OZ - 20% Down
Qld -20% Down > Drug Raids up 135%
Crew may recall seeing news of dobberz > Backpacker Raids (Real)
Dobberz give Police Power to smash the joint up to count bongs.

WA-30-40% Down > Sorry! All outta Meth? Bloody Border Lockdown

Qld Covid Crime reduction (Down%)
40% Robbery (Armed)
40% Robbery (Unarmed)
Less-Home Burglary
27% Public Nuisance (Protesters have no Traffic to Stop?)
25% Assault
12% Sexual Assault (Public)

20% Traffic Offences
30% Less Cars resulted in( Speeding Rise > 26% Qld > 48% NSW)
50% Fuel Price cut
Less Car Theft.

Stay the Fuck at Home Crimes that soared ...(Up%)
51% Computer Fraud
25% Domestic Violence (1214) Extra victims up on March/April 2019

Victoria DV figures 20-50% up + 30% up > Kidz at risk.

Oz tops Corona Domestic Violence competition there.

No! Don't stop our smug pollies gloating over their heartless victory.
PM's Frontline DV victims are attributed to ill prepared lockdowns.
swellnet crew informed of such & take no joy in saying told you so.
DV Victims exceed Covid cases in my state (Qld) & likely others.
Oz can claim no Covid victory with blood of countless innocents on it's hands.

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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 13 May 2020 at 1:33am

A long but fascinating read about a surfer and cybernaut in a strange and fascinating world.

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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 13 May 2020 at 5:35pm

"With China supposedly undermining our national security and way of life, and causing ructions on university campuses, it’s time to take stock of the threat before us. So serious has the situation become that some have called for the equivalent of a dad’s army capable of protecting our shores from possible Chinese incursions. (Border security, you see, are still flat out trying to turn back the boats).

It’s a worrying situation. Forget John Pilger’s documentary, The Coming War with China: international relations and intelligence experts are suggesting that the war has already started. Yes indeed, it’s time for our brave Captain Mainwarings to step up and defend our beloved homeland. Happily, though, Field Marshal Scott (‘good bloke’) Morrison is addressing the threat – I mean, just look at how he’s responding to the bush fires - by making sure that the Pacific Islanders are on side (if only they’d stop whinging about climate change), and that the army, navy and air force are on full alert. Meanwhile, we have to contend with an enemy within: elements of the Chinese student cohort who have stirred up opposition against pro-Hong Kongers, even spying on them and occasionally beating them up (apparently). The Coalition Government, ASIO, the Australian Federal Police and conscripted university managers are onto this too, ensuring that freedom of speech prevails on our campuses. (Interestingly, such freedoms do not seem to extend to whistle-blowers who expose the bugging of foreign governments, but let’s not go there).

Predictably, mainstream reporting on the growth of ‘Chinese influence’ has been less than illuminating. Journalists – especially hacks at The Australian – have probed every conceivable dark corner to get at the facts. But they’re not the only ones interested in this ghastly scenario. It seems that the moral panic over China has reached hysterical proportions. Chinese infiltration, or so it seems, is everywhere, from excessive housing investments and land buy-ups to dodgy dinner dates with ALP officials; and from Confucian Institutes (as fronts for espionage activities) to the take-over of student unions by Chinese students. Concern has even arisen over the spread of Chinese takeaways and the growing demand for Mandarin courses, both clearly promoting Chinese influence across the nation. And don’t forget the sinister 5G network – or the coronavirus.

Recently, three journalists from the Sydney Morning Herald/The Age (Baker, Hunter & Bonyhady, 2019) took the brave step of striding into the murky world of Chinese students to expose the shadowy goings on in our hallowed halls. Following some general observations on ‘the Chinese issue’, their report morphs into a more general discussion of how our universities deal with international students – no trivial matter, given their contribution to university coffers. Apparently – surprise, surprise - not all of these student visitors are happy campers. After all, our journos inform us, they have to fork out up to three times more for their education than domestic students, often live in dilapidated and over-crowded accommodation, and feel estranged, lonely and depressed. Many of them struggle with the most basic English, which makes reading turgid academic texts and assignment completion tough going. All-in-all, it’s not what they expected from the much-vaunted Aussie ‘student experience’.

But as to the worrying proposition that some overseas students might be gifted passes for their courses – an allegation that’s been floating around for years - the ever-perky Vice-Chancellor of Sydney University, Michael (no-problems-here) Spence, rejects this scandalous assertion outright. Now; call me naive, but if you want to find out what’s really going on at the University of Sydney, or any other university for that matter, why would you rely on the skewed insights of an overpaid CEO (Hil & Lyons, 2018), who has a vested interest in protecting the USyD brand? Worried by such questionable investigative reportage, I decided to write directly to the said journos. This is a slightly amended version of the original:

Dear eminent investigative reporters (I didn’t really say that)

Congratulations on your recent splendid article in the Sydney Morning Herald about Chinese students in Australian universities.

While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, there are a few points you may wish to consider as you consider your next contribution on this topic. I hope you don’t mind me doing this, but my long experience as an academic at several Australian universities gives me some limited insights into these sometimes-vexed places. At the end of the day, of course, these are only my views, so please feel free to ignore them.

Your article relies too much on higher education ‘experts’ and senior university managers for its information, the latter have a vested interest in asserting that all is well in uni-land, don’t you think? Well, contrary to what they suggest, it isn’t all sweetness and light, I can assure you. For example, V-C Michael Spence’s view that universities place no pressure on academics to pass students is utterly absurd and patently untrue. The institutional pressures to pass students (including those from overseas) are well known, as I point in my book Selling Students Short: Why you won’t get the university education you deserve. (Available at discount price from your local second-hand bookshop). If you talk to most academics, they would tell you (in no uncertain terms) that when it comes to the grading of student assignments, they are pressured – subtly and otherwise – to comply with the sacred bell curve (a nineteenth century European construct of questionable worth). They will also tell you that the bar for passing students has been significantly lowered over the years. When too many students fail their assignments, eyebrows are raised among heads of school, deans, and/or teaching and learning ‘experts’. In some universities, failing students are granted an automatic right to resubmit (sometimes they’re charged for the privilege). Academics will further tell you that one of the main challenges they face when assessing their students is how to lower the bar sufficiently to ensure that most pass, without totally compromising one’s academic integrity. Additionally, to obtain good student evaluations – key to acceptable performance reviews and therefore to increasing one’s chances of promotion – then you don’t want to cheese-off students by failing them or giving them grades they’re not happy with, do you? You see, few if any students complain when they get an HD, but hand them a pass or even credit, or God-forbid, a fail, all hell breaks loose: complaints to heads of school, terrible evaluation ratings, the spreading of malicious rumours, threats of violence etc. The ‘dumbing down’ tendency of which I speak isn’t always as crude as what I’ve suggested; practices vary from one academic/institution to another, but rest assured, such practices are commonplace in today’s universities. (Managers will say otherwise, of course, before prattling on about ‘excellence’ and the like).

At the risk of appearing pompous (which of course, I am), here’s an idea for any future inquiry into Uni-land: Why not talk directly to mainstream academics about their experiences of university life? Forget the lumpen professoriate, just interrogate those poor sods who do the grunt work, many of them underpaid casuals, and you’ll get an entirely different picture of what transpires in our so-called higher education institutions.

By virtue of being in a cut-throat global market, universities are prone to concealing their shortcomings and to peddling illusions of ‘academic rigour’, ‘excellence’ and all that guff. The chasm between claim and reality couldn’t be wider. (Read my book! You’ll love it. I’ve sold at least ten copies).

The overseas student recruitment industry is riddled with corrupt practices, some of which you identify, but many which you don’t. Again, see my book. It has a very nice cover.

The reasons for diminishing standards in our universities are complex and varied but are closely linked to the marketisation of the tertiary sector, and the opening up of universities to global competition. This has been accompanied by entirely new and oppressive – sometimes ruthless - systems of top-down management focussed on revenue raising and brand promotion. In short, the entire enterprise has been well and truly neoliberalised. Please see Raewyn Connell’s excellent book, The Good University. It also has a nice cover.

Overseas students are indeed a cash cow for universities, even though some VCs get tetchy at the suggestion. Their experiences in these places are often dismal and a far cry from the vapid promise of never-ending fun and high-quality learning.

I think I’ll stop there; I do go on a bit. Thanks anyway for taking the time to read this letter. I’m a great admirer of good investigative journalism which, sadly, is rapidly disappearing in the mainstream media. (Sorry to be so contentious and opinionated). That said, I have every confidence that you will take on board my observations, and maybe even check them out. I am available for interviews day and night, but preferable not while the rugby or tennis is on.

Best wishes

Adjunct Professor Richard Hil

I am of course still waiting on a reply from the journalists in question. A friend of mine suggested that I should ‘get a life’ because a reply will not be forthcoming any time soon. I must say, I find it sad and bewildering that rather than attempting to talk with people at the coalface, as it were, journalists continually rely on senior university managers or luminaries from think tanks to try and make sense of university-land. It’s like asking Donald Trump to comment on ethical business practices – you’re going to get a skewed perspective. Right?

We shouldn’t be too shocked or surprised by any of this. Universities have a strong interest in portraying themselves as bastions of propriety and high-quality education. And guess what? It worked, for now at least, and especially when it comes to international students.

Partly as a result of government cutbacks, the pressure to cross-subsidise research through inflated student fees has been enormous. And given all the rankings baloney that goes with global market competition, the desire to protect the reputation of universities has never been stronger. It’s why they employ armies of marketing and public relations personnel to produce and promote all those puerile slogans, tag-lines and ads. It’s also why they pay ‘consultants’ enormous amounts of money to tell them what they already know and why they recruit senior managers from other parts of the corporate world. It’s all about image – and sales. Again, there’s nothing all that unusual about this – it’s the corporate business model in action. It’s the same reason why fossil fuel companies seek to portray themselves as sustainability crusaders, why banks spend so much time concealing their dodgy deals, why prisons say they’re about rehabilitation, and why many aged care homes claim they care while leaving clients alone in dark corners. It often takes commissions of inquiry, whistle-blowers and shock-horror media reports to lift the lid on what’s going on.

The problem with the university sector is that journalists are still in the realm of don’t-ask-don’t-tell; whistle blowers are hard to come by, and the findings and recommendations from inquiries, if and when they happen, appear to be, if not entirely ignored, then invariably fudged. The 2015 ICAC report into universities and the international student market, Learning the hard way: managing corruption risks associated with international students at universities in NSW, is a case in point (ICAC, 2015). Check it out for yourself.

‘Corruption risks’ notwithstanding, it has become glaringly obvious that Australian universities are massively over-reliant on overseas students for their income and face an epic implosion when this revenue stream dries up, which it will once China and India build up their own sectors. It’s happening right now.

Watch out!"

- Dr Richard Hil


Baker, J., Hunter, F. & Bonyhady, N. (2019). ‘Overseas students have delivered a cash bonanza to universities, but at what cost?’ Sydney Morning Herald, 24 August.

Hil, R. & Lyons, K. (2018) ‘Million-dollar vice-chancellor salaries highlight what’s wrong with our universities’, ABC News, 5th February. Retrieved from

ICAC (Independent Commission Against Corruption). (2015). Learning the hard way: Managing corruption risks associated with international students at universities in NSW. Retrieved from

loungelizard's picture
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loungelizard Wednesday, 13 May 2020 at 9:23pm


Dale -Cooper's picture
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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 13 May 2020 at 11:54pm

Quando, quando, quando.

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Johknee Thursday, 14 May 2020 at 7:33am

Wrong language

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truebluebasher Thursday, 14 May 2020 at 9:32pm

14th May 2020 Oz Starshots Military Rocket Program

Qldurr loses the big pineapple then trips over a Top Secret Starshots Launch site.

(Gilmour Space Technologies are a family company)

GC Rocket Factory : Pimpama + Helensvale Tech.(South of Rail Hub)

No Nukes Old School Top Secret Military Launch Site.
Rocket (Launches)
46 cm (diameter) Rocket x 12 / year ( 1 Launch / day max )
9 cm (diameter) Rocket x 26 / year ( 4 Launches / day max)

Operating Hours: Mon-Fri 9 am -4 pm (Closed on weekends & Public Holidays)

1 weeks notice to 1.5km neighbours + 10 second warning sirens on Launch.
Launch Pad Site has 10 carparks + 1 disabled car park )
Old school Rocket Fuel is stored in Shipping Container.
Rocket Fuel mix: Hydrogen Peroxide, Petrol, Diesel, Turpentine, Acetone
Rocket Noise: 88 dB vs Neighbour's noisy Lawn Mower 90 dB.
Council Rocket Launch site Rates : $ 4,522.54 / yr...
[Rubber Stamp] 54321...** Starshots * **

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Dale -Cooper Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 10:52am

Capitalism gonna capitalism. Scotty gonna Liberal?

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 12:43pm

If Australia wants to move away from coal fired electricity we are going to have to transition to gas fired energy to support renewables at least in the short term. (next 10-30 years) unless we see a huge advance in storage solutions and huge drop in price.

As it is per capita Australia has the highest uptake of roof top solar is the world and per capita in recent years our uptake of renewables has been up to three times faster than any country in the world.

Yet look at how much difference it is making.

Our big issue moving forward with renewables is also we have very little carbon free base load energy to support renewables, unlike many countries that have decent chinks of hydro or nuclear so have very realistic goals of going 100% carbon free, ironically both Nuclear and Hydro has been opposed in Australia by the Green lobby.

The only other option to back up renewables is storage, which is super super expensive (possibly even trillions) and then with things like batteries has the risk of becoming outdated tech, surpassed by cheaper better batteries.

Even the far left Michael Moore and Co have pointed out that renewables alone are not going to save us

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GuySmiley Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 7:16pm

Written and spoken by Indo for the Minerals Council of Australia, Canberra.

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Terminal Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 7:45pm

Trigger point for me is ecologists/biologists and the like that feel the need to take selfies for social media with some wild animal they've just caught. For the animal, this kind of interaction is a predation event and their cortisol levels are most likely through the roof. Don't do it.

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Fliplid Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 7:53pm

There’s a push on at the moment for hydrogen fuel and when that becomes a viable option it will be a game changer in so many ways. Some countries are using renewables in its production but Australia, LNP that is, are pushing for a combination of coal, gas and that old chestnut of carbon capture. Still a long way off for large scale production but never the less it is a positive development.

If hydrogen production does gain scale it would go along way of eliminating the problem of maintaining base loads of electricity because any excess of electricity from renewables can be used to produce the hydrogen which can be stored.

I’d like to see more information about the new nuclear solution because the newer plants are supposed to be safer and cheaper. Bill Gates was funding research into a demonstration plant so maybe the positive things I’ve heard about them is just propaganda and part of his conspiracy for world domination.

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Vic Local Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 9:48pm

Who is actually still falling for the Carbon Capture and Storage drivel? The fossil fuel industry and their mates in government have chucked billions of dollars over decades at that technology and come up with fuck all.
I for one am mightily pissed off our tax dollars keep getting pissed away by Smoko and Angus "Well Done" Taylor on that farce.

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Fliplid Friday, 22 May 2020 at 6:19am

Always thought the same, CC has basically been a con up to this point. From what I read there are supposed to be merits for it in the case of hydrogen production using fossil fuels, still not proven though

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indo-dreaming Friday, 22 May 2020 at 8:36am

"Written and spoken by Indo for the Minerals Council of Australia, Canberra."

What Bullshit.

We have two choices.

1. Continue down the same track thinking solar and wind are going to save us, which will mean the reliance on coal until storage tech advances and becomes affordable, who knows how long this could take?...

2. Do what other countries have done and are doing, continue transitioning to renewables, but also transition from coal to gas to reduce emissions.

It's kind of a no brainer.

Personally id love to see nuclear thrown in the mix, but its never going to happen in Australia, so not even worth talking about.

Things like carbon capture you would expect are worth looking at, just for the simple fact we should be looking to decrease emissions in as many ways as possible.

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GuySmiley Friday, 22 May 2020 at 1:56pm

Mmmm Indo’s feisty this morning, it is bullshit gas is just another fossil fuel marginally cleaner than the newer coal powered plants. Not like the stinkers down the valley but still heavy polluters.

Now Morrison’s move serves two purposes, firstly it gives taxpayers money to the already heavily subsidised highly profitable non tax paying fossil fuel industry and by doing so (second reason) diverts money that would otherwise go to funding renewables. Very sneaky Coalmo. Further kicking the can down the road.

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Johknee Friday, 22 May 2020 at 9:44am

"Bill Gates was funding research into a demonstration plant so maybe the positive things I’ve heard about them is just propaganda and part of his conspiracy for world domination."
Last part of this made me chuckle, Fliplid! I've heard a little about TerraPower, but not sure where it's up to.

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GuySmiley Friday, 22 May 2020 at 4:04pm


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Blowin Friday, 22 May 2020 at 4:21pm

Guy ....are you familiar with the circus leading up to the situation which has simultaneously given Australia the highest domestic gas prices in the world and the largest gas exporting business ?

And now the gas industry members have been granted the decision making process to revive our economy. You’ll never guess which industry they’ve chosen to save us ?

Hint : Gas

Our government is about as opposed to corruption as a Balinese policeman.

Dale -Cooper's picture
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Dale -Cooper Friday, 22 May 2020 at 4:29pm

Or a Queensland copper?

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Dale -Cooper Friday, 22 May 2020 at 4:59pm

"Can't help myself...bad habits..."

Speaking of which, why wouldn't we trust Angus to do the very best in Australia's* interest?

*depends on which Australia we're talking about, obviously.

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GuySmiley Friday, 22 May 2020 at 5:49pm

Blowin .... yes very familiar with all that, both sides of politics are guilty in selling off all our gas (WA excepted coz they are connected to the National grid) and forcing international spot pricing on the Australian consumer. Australia is flogging it all off via foreign owned gas companies that are predicted not to pay tax for many decades ... so we’re giving it away!!!!

Solution? Fuck up the water table via fracking to flog off even more gas at no financial benefit to the country....... you couldn’t make this shit up.

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indo-dreaming Friday, 22 May 2020 at 5:54pm


Natural gas is about 50% cleaner than coal (might even be more compared to brown coal)

Swapping coal for gas would greatly reduce emissions from the energy sector and over time would reduce emissions greatly.

Nobody is saying it's the answer, but isn't it much better if we could transition from coal to gas in the short term while we continue to also transition to renewables?

If we don't the reality is we will just keep burning coal until we have enough renewables to cover our energy needs.

Which nobody knows when it will happen or even if its going to happen, the big issue storage.

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troppo dichotomy Friday, 22 May 2020 at 6:22pm

The mining/oil/coal/gas industry is going to trash the joint.Doesn't take a rock scientist to figure out that sucking all the gas/oil out of the earths crust is heating us up from the core!

When Rudd got sacked for introducing a moaning mining tax,i realized whom was is charge.

The mining industry is nowhere near as generous as the famous video of the corrupt Balinese policeman saying, "100k for beer and 100k for my government!"Legend!

Hydrogen is the future for cars,guess which country is leading in tech development??

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Friday, 22 May 2020 at 7:28pm

Im so skeptical on Hydrogen cars, every Youtube video from tech type channels leaves you going okay well that's a dumb idea, that sure isn't going to happen, but then wasn't it the Japanesse going all in on it and they aren't silly.

I guess will wait and see.

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Fliplid Friday, 22 May 2020 at 8:47pm

There is a fair amount of research going into hydrogen Indo so it is only a matter of time for it to be a viable option. Even this government has a working group looking into it.

Dale -Cooper's picture
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Dale -Cooper Friday, 22 May 2020 at 9:40pm

Well, Frodo...

...what about the hospitality & arts sector? University staff? Casuals of all stripes?

Frodo: Yeah, nah...too hard!

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GuySmiley Friday, 22 May 2020 at 9:49pm

Indo, I no longer attempt to argue the toss about such matters. Gas would have been an excellent transition fuel 15 years ago, as a means of removing those filthy brown coal power stations early and long before the country flogged off all its gas without resorting to CSG and all of its associated severe environmental problems. A clever country, never Australia, would have done that. I also no longer care to revisit what I remember as the direct comparisons in emissions between gas and coal but what I remember was gas isn't the rosey alternative you paint. Besides you miss the whole point of the current debate and that is to delay the full introduction of renewables and the fact that renewables are a fraction of the cost of any and all alternatives. Delay means further profits to the large multinational non AU tax paying power generating and distribution companies. The fact that you have conservative governments running such high risk public policy and with taxpayers money (all socialist like) also highlights how politically bankrupt and stupid these jokers are.

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Westofthelake Friday, 22 May 2020 at 11:08pm

Timely. Angus style.


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Fliplid Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 7:38am

Good points Guy although the big beneficiaries of the gas revenue will be connected Australian business groups like Ken Stokes and then there is the grand Dame of Australia who has a property portfolio that is in the regions that will be developed hence the push to lift moratoriums in NT.

The fact that these people are already pulling the strings is bad enough, imagine how untouchable they are going to be once the billions of untaxed revenue starts rolling in.

“.…how politically bankrupt and stupid these jokers are.”

I’d say they are playing the game in a different way, they realise that people can moan and rage against what they are doing as much as they like but in the end there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. No more accountability it’s my way or no way and we’ve got the backing to do it, both financially and politically, they were voted in after all.

That cartoon is on point wetsof, there must have been a frenzy of self flagellation and hallelujahs to purge the cabinet of all the unholy science lately.

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 9:02am

The thing that really sucks is you people are going to be the same people whinging and wining in years to come that emissions aren't dropping as they should.

You people are always the problem, you are the same people that opposed nuclear and even hydro and made us so reliant on coal, and now put us in a position where we dont have a reliable carbon free energy source to support renewables.

While many countries with decent amounts of nuclear and hydro have very realistic, goals of going carbon 100% carbon free energy, we are pretty much fucked, having to consider extremely expensive and inefficient storage options that still have environmental issues.

You guys are locked into this renewables vs fossil fuels idea, when in reality these companies win either way, they are invested in fossil fuels and renewables, they just follow the money and the subsidies.

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Dale -Cooper Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 10:09am

Great cartoon from Pope there, Westo.

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Fliplid Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 10:11am

I’m not 100% against nuclear which is why I’m interested in the new generation of reactors. As for the fossil fuel debate, I actually agree with most of what you have said in the past about using the resources we have and the benefits it generates. One of my sons worked for years on the Curtis Island projects and also in WA and Darwin so I have seen first hand the benefits it brings to the economy and individuals.

However the way gas is extracted has a lot irreversible environmental impacts that doesn’t get any consideration by the proponents of these projects. Also the way the revenue is distributed should be to the benefit of the whole nation not a few individual companies. These companies need to make a profit otherwise the economy would stagnate but the community should get a fairer slice of the pie. There is a lot of commentary about how great Australia is, imagine how much better and fairer it would be if the revenue from those projects went to tax revenue in a more equitable way.

Renewables should be given an even weighting in the debate which doesn’t seem to be happening. They do need to be supported like you said by what exists now, gas and coal, but the Covid response report is suggesting tax payer support to develop long term projects and infrastructure and there is almost no mention of renewables in the mix. Gas is a better option compared to coal but it isn’t carbon free. The main gripe I have about gas is the environmental damage the extraction process causes. Even if carbon capture can be developed gas would still be harmful to the environment for these reasons. We can keep trashing the environment today but what is going to happen 50- 100 + years from now?

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H2O Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 1:23pm
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GuySmiley Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 1:56pm

.... and the discussion of gas as a "transitional" fuel belies the fact that there is no time left to transition, that time has passed, been squandered away in the climate wars of the last decades. The world must now transition away from carbon and all its fossil fuels. Time is something we no longer have.

I also suspect the current Australian debate about gas and "reliable baseload power" is not about the country's immediate energy needs at all, its all about future proofing the unsustainable great population growth Ponzi scheme that country has gambled on since mid way through the Howard years so its more neo-liberal clap trap. Big Australia for everyone.

In Victoria, we have seen this bullshit before when the state built the biggest desalination plant in the southern hemisphere to "drought proof the state" yet since it was built the state has needed to draw water from it twice. A massive con on the people paid for by huge increases in water rates, again Victoria could have built a much smaller plant but that wouldn't have future proofed the state for the massive population growth of the last decade.

Everything is connected - It is by the deep and hidden currents that all oceans are one

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Dale -Cooper Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 4:16pm

A sterling piece by Katherine Murphy (her lingering Malcolm love, notwithstanding).

And a great stripping of grifters like Christensen (now there's a pretty mind picture!).

China, Australia AND nuance?! In the media??

Strap yourselves in...

Aaaaand go...

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 4:34pm

Funny you mention the desal plant.

There is a running theme here with the far left especially the Greens

Opposed nuclear way back when- now no reliable carbon free energy source to support renewables
(same deal with Hyro they have opposed it in the past)

Opposed dam after dam- so we had to build a deal plant to give us water security.

Opposed carbon tax in 2009 because it wasn't exactly what they wanted- so now have no carbon tax over ten years on.

Wouldn't be surprised if they have opposed gas in the past to try to oppose it now.

I mean last year Bob brown was even opposing a large wind farm in Tasmania.

It just comes down to a lack of compromise, like a bunch of spoilt kids, but the irony is they end up being the bigger losers.

Along the same lines

Last two thirds of the article (where it got interesting and relevant to my post)

"Take the Greens’ promise to achieve 90% renewable electricity by 2030. There are several major economies – Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, France – that already have near-zero-emission electricity. But all of them use large amounts of hydroelectricity, nuclear power, or both.

Rather than follow the only proven path to clean electricity, the Greens propose that Australia should emulate Germany’s Energiewende policy.

While Energiewende has expanded renewable energy, it has failed to cut emissions. True, the emissions intensity of German electricity is about 40% lower than Australia’s. But both Germany’s total greenhouse emissions and the carbon intensity of its electricity have plateaued, despite record investments in renewable energy. German emissions intensity remains an order of magnitude higher than those of the nuclear/hydro countries such as Switzerland and France.

Germany’s problem is that it has had to back up its intermittent wind and solar generation with fossil fuels. The Greens promise that canny Australian engineers will succeed where Germans have failed, by using “pumped hydro” power storage power storage and concentrated solar thermal energy.

However, the jury is still out on these technologies – and even ClimateWorks, whose modelling the Greens uses, acknowledges that “large investments in Research and Design are needed to improve the performance of existing low-carbon technologies to required levels”.

Spain’s 20-megawatt Gemasolar power plant shows that solar thermal and storage can supply baseload power. But it would take around 100 Gemasolars to replace a typical major coal-fired power station, and bigger solar thermal plants, such as Ivanpah, the world’s largest, have not produced the expected output. While it would be foolhardy to write off solar thermal, it’s also mightily brave to bet the climate on it.

Making up the shortfall

Is an all-renewables future possible in Australia? Of course. But it won’t come fast, cheaply or without significant environmental impacts. The most authoritative “100% renewables study” so far was released in 2013 by the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO). Although the Greens requested this report, they didn’t like its conclusions: that an all-renewable grid would need baseload power from geothermal (not yet a scalable technology) and bioenergy (which has a range of knock-on environmental impacts).

Part of the problem with the Greens’ approach is that it made many of its energy choices long before climate change was a major issue. The party emerged as a political force through campaigns against nuclear technologies and the Franklin River dam. It has always backed wind and solar (which now provide around 2% of global energy), but has opposed the world’s two largest sources of low-carbon energy: hydroelectrcity (6.8%) and nuclear (now 4.4%).

Am I suggesting that the Greens embrace nuclear power? While that is unlikely given their deeply held political commitments, it is not unreasonable to ask for an end to the anti-nuclear fearmongering. The Greens’ national policy platform demands the closure of the OPAL reactor south of Sydney, which produces radioisotopes for cancer detection and treatment. Without such reactors, life-saving nuclear medicine would become impossible.

The Greens are right that nuclear cannot compete on cost with coal, and if we only wanted to halve our emissions then gas and renewables would be the logical choice. But if our goal is zero-carbon electricity, and given the uncertainty about the pace of innovation in other low-carbon technologies, it is worth heeding the advice of South Australia’s nuclear Royal Commission that “action is taken now to plan for [nuclear’s] potential implementation”.

Of course the Greens are right that wind and solar must make a much larger contribution to our future energy mix. But to hope that we can avoid dangerous warming without drawing on every available tool is to put ideology before arithmetic.

Truly radical climate action means we shouldn’t unconditionally rule out any promising technology – from carbon capture and storage to low-methane genetically modified crops.

Rather than accept the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) findings about carbon budget overshoot and the consequent need for “negative emissions” technologies such as carbon capture and storage, Green politicians promote alternative research outlining all-renewable paths to global decarbonisation. Such studies assume both unprecedented technological progress, and extreme global inequality in energy use (for example by assuming that Indians will be content to use 84% less energy than Australians).

Embracing science

Of course, this is not to say that the two major Australian parties, with their underwhelming climate ambitions, are any better. Yet so successfully have the Greens cast themselves as the party of climate science that it’s easy to forget how radically they dissent from a scientific worldview in their responses to climate change.

Former NASA climatologist James Hansen, often dubbed the father of climate awareness, has branded green opposition to nuclear power as a major obstacle to solving the climate problem. In response, he was pilloried and branded a “denier”.

The idea that greedy polluters are the only barrier to an all-renewable future presents climate action as a simple moral choice. Unfortunately, caring for the planet is not so easy. Effective mitigation requires tough choices among imperfect options.

To be effective, we environmentalists must examine our own biases as carefully as we do those of our opponents. And we must do more than accept climate science; we must also use science in our search for solutions."

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AndyM Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 4:32pm

"Far left"


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sypkan Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 5:25pm

so murphy's take is oz should just keep sucking it up...

china's abhorent shit, in all it's forms...

work harder oz, you're not sucking hard enough, suck those one inch nuggets through that quarter inch straw, china is in the right... again... as always...

her whole argument is fuelled by economic fear, she's a neo liberal stooge

yeh the lnp shoulld have showed more tact, yeh christensen is a big fat nugget himself, but what about china?

she's lame

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Blowin Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 5:52pm

Murphy is bringing attention to the chance that the LNP is running another bait and switch on the China situation, which isn’t impossible to believe when you consider how captured they have shown themselves to be. This is on top of their natural neoliberal tendency to ignore morality / principle in the pursuit of greed.

Dutton was running to private meetings in Chinese restaurants at the behest of Chinese billionaires only a couple of years ago and Morrison was calling the nation racist for showing no confidence in Gladys Liu’s 5th column routine more recently than that , so the proclivity of the LNP to sell out Australia to the CCP is well documented.

They have learnt their lesson when they went hard on the boat arrivals whilst fire hosing immigration through the front door back in the Stop the Boats days .They know that it’s better to be seen giving 5 percent than to be liable for the 95 percent they’re taking for themselves.

That may well be their deal with China. Look tough whilst you’re selling the nation down the river. The joke which is the FIRB and their acceding to the CCP colonisation of Australia with their diaspora lend more than enough weight to this theory .

But maybe the warning bells from National security are getting too loud to ignore ? Maybe the Five Eyes are making noises to the point that the government has to been seen to act ? Maybe it’s the LNP poaching the ever growing dissent from the community as Murphy says ? Maybe the Hawks are an appeasement to Trump ?

Who cares ?

The LNP are never expected to act in Australia’s interest if it’s incompatible with the desire of their corporate masters. So maybe this recent acknowledgment that the road to the future isn’t pathed with gold , but with subjugation and loss of freedom is the best Australia can hope for from the false democracy we are currently living through in Australia , where neither party has any real intention of derailing the Chinese takeover bid ?

We all know where the ALP stands. They are so entirely corrupted that siding with China in areas of contention between our countries is to be expected.

Maybe the state of Australian politics is so poor that a handful of LNP hawks squawking as a distraction is the best we can hope for ?

I’d say that’s closer to the truth.

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sypkan Saturday, 23 May 2020 at 6:09pm

"..That may well be their deal with China. Look tough whilst you’re selling the nation down the river. The joke which is the FIRB and their acceding to the CCP colonisation of Australia with their diaspora lend more than enough weight to this theory .

But maybe the warning bells from National security are getting too loud to ignore ? Maybe the Five Eyes are making noises to the point that the government has to been seen to act ? Maybe it’s the LNP poaching the ever growing dissent from the community as Murphy says ? Maybe the Hawks are an appeasement to Trump ?"

all of the above

christensen and co. just give scumo and co. a chance to continue to walk both sides of the fence ...for a little longer...

I reckon word from above is getting more hawkish, be it from trump or not, china has shown their true intentions, it seems not many people like it

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher Sunday, 24 May 2020 at 8:58am

Oz has a massive Nuke industry & its a disaster area

90 yrs of Nuke Waste leaks out of 10,000's of 44 Gallon drums over 100 sites.
Most of these rusting drums are now 40-50 years old...WH Toxic disaster.

Oz has begged 41 countries to take our Nuke Waste & all said Fuck Off dirty pigs.
That news is 15 years many more small nations have since said fuck off?

Opal is Argentinian owned & goes into lockdown each car crash of bushfire!
It has endless accidents (3 a week sometimes) ABC: Oz doesn't even notice or care!
Govt cart the Fuel rods on Bunning's Trailers at night thru a No Nuke town & port .
Each & every time the Mayor & Port gets more pissed off.( Fuck off with that shit! )
Govt hires [visas] to do the dirty & drop it ! Oops! Careful...onto the Ship of Shame!

At the other end...French run & hide & pretend they don't see the stinking Hulk!
Whole world laughs & points at Oz dirty Laundry touring the Globe.
Please all tell me you've cringed at these Oz Ships of Shame? You all hate this right!
Playing roulette with every Nation's shore along the way...Go team Oz!

Oz nuke industry is our Nation's shame is what it is... just plain sick to talk it up!
Please pray the world bans us from Nuclear anything as they rightly should.

That motherlode at Fukushima has a Made in Oz sticker on the base of each drum.
When Japan do their evil deed, we can't hide the yellow cake on our faces! Right!

2011 Tsunami poisoned the entire Pacific shoreline with Oz radioactive waste.

Oz contaminated all East Coast surf breaks, NZ & Antarctic Shore in Toxic Filth.

We gotta clean up our inland sea of Nuke Waste before Oz wipes out more Planets.