Trigger points

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:21pm

Localised tender or painful areas that when stimulated give rise to pain elsewhere and everywhere.

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factotum commented Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:23pm

"A coward's gun is emptied when fear pulls the trigger, and hate is the ammunition of choice."

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-wh...

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Blowin commented Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 3:05pm
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factotum commented Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 10:44pm
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Blowin commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 12:06am

.

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factotum commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 8:38am

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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factotum commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 8:39am
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GuySmiley commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 9:20am

.... just part of the ongoing cultural wars

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factotum commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 9:56am

"Brain research tells us that only twenty percent of human beings have a sense of irony, which means that eighty percent of the world takes everything at face value."

Douglas Coupland

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truebluebasher commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 11:08am

Only problem is that we idiot Aussies know better than the whole world put together.
'Hawkie' {RIP} (The 3 Blokes!) When up against it, we Aussies are real smart arses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMa0j5A3nWw

Pure Gold boat joke: Bertrand ('Frenchie) + Bond (Pommie) + Hawke (Aussie)

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freeride76 commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 12:04pm

From article linked above.

EDUCATE YOURSELVES AND SEEK FEEDBACK

Start to actively question your intuition and subjective opinions. Seek out the truth and ask for objective feedback. You should value this feedback more than your own opinions. When it comes to combatting the Dunning-Kruger effect, education and lifelong learning make up the foundation.

A PHILOSOPHICAL CONCLUSION TO FINISH OFF

Truth and objectivity are some of the most important values when it comes to the development and functioning of society.

Because it can cloud our minds against objectivity, the Dunning-Kruger effect is an enemy. The main risk this phenomenon poses is that it can be contagious. So, don’t let yourself get caught up in it!

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
-- Charles Darwin

Don't think Davethe Rave would dig that.

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davetherave commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 1:41pm

Thanks for thinking for me freeride, that's awesome. Between you and Andy, you got me covered and yep, you know me better than I know myself now, so there's no need for me to do anyhing more except create my own reality. Now where's that bloody supermodel girlfriend of mine gone. Christ i must have been out of mind when i created her, too much bloody ego I'd say. Should have not listened to those Byron Bay hippysters.

davetherave

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velocityjohnno commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 2:30pm

be careful when you find your supermodel, Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_USJCTIgs4

of course this teaching could be subjective

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AndyM commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 4:49pm

Dave it's not so much a case of anyone thinking for you, it's more like putting your ego and your prejudices aside and considering what experts have to say.
Sure, they need to be questioned too but when the evidence is overwhelming, it's time to give it the credence it deserves.

It's ok to be honest and accept that you don't know everything and that making things up is part of the problem and not the solution.

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davetherave commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 5:05pm

VJ is the solution Andy. Two absolute classic shares today. I suggest you read his classic over on the Hawaiian Pro coverage today. That's the stuff I love to be inspired by, but of course I am subjective. Lighten up for God's sake.

davetherave

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AndyM commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 5:35pm

Dave, I'm practically floating ;)

But on a more serious note, conversations with post-truthers invariably end in one of two ways - number one is "I don't care, you can't tell me what to do" and number two is "lighten up and don't take things so seriously".

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davetherave commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 6:12pm

Now you are seeing clearly Andy. I am pleased you did the chakra alignment that Guy Smiley so kindly supplied. John Wheeler, Max Planck, Bruce Lipton, Rupert Sheldrake, Gautama, Yeshua, Nielsen Border etc etc are all experts that quite clearly explain things. Even old mate's Eckhart and Wim, especially with many comparative studies done on him now, show that reality and constructs are a lot different to what many have been led to believe. But being a post truth, I won't take things too seriously and make it up as I go along, ha ha.
Life, no one's getting out alive.

davetherave

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AndyM commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 6:30pm

Haha, narcissism and self-absorption full steam ahead!

Everyone else can get rooted.

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factotum commented Friday, 22 Nov 2019 at 10:53pm

"We’re only human. We hang on to lies that comfort us. A big consoling lie that still hangs around this history of slaughter and dispossession is that we can’t apply the outlook of the 21st century to killings on the frontier...

The frontier massacres would be so much easier to face if we hadn’t realised back then what they meant. But we did. There were voices back then speaking in newspapers, in pulpits and in parliaments with great clarity, responding to the killings exactly as we would expect good people to respond today.

But those voices didn’t carry the day. The killings went on."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/18/blood-brains-and-...

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factotum commented Saturday, 23 Nov 2019 at 11:11am
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truebluebasher commented Saturday, 23 Nov 2019 at 12:21pm

Praise be to brother Dave...
tbb did maketh da' pilgrimage to thou green walls of Shambala.

Disciple Crg dared question these mysterious waves...(Cue: rumble of God effect)
Prophet Velocityjohnno did part the seas so each devout surfer got a sick barrel.
Disciple Crg reminded the prophet that parting the seas was a job for #1 Huey!

No matter the wave pool God...The 3 wise men gifted stickers for their sick barrels.

Flock are healing crippled tbb...like a wave pool boss!..'good for a surf next month.'
6 years & a lifetime later.....tbb again walks on water...wine'n'wafers for whole crew.

All now feel the power of a hillsong coming on...request DJ davetherave for a Hymn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnyh6i9NvmE

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P'tai commented Saturday, 23 Nov 2019 at 2:12pm

Ha Ha Ha that was a classic video link tbb.......... Oh My Deity, I remember wearing the high waisted flares and platform shoes! Waiting to be struck by lightening from the pyrocumulus (flammagenitus) clouds that are around due to all the fires!!!!!

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davetherave commented Saturday, 23 Nov 2019 at 3:31pm

Praise the Holy hand plane brother TBB, I feel a hymn acoming,
Re al I tee
It's all about me
Re al I tee
Y'all come along and see
Re al I tee
Come bow before me
Re al I tee
Now pay me my fee
Re al I tee
It's all about me
Re al I tee
Humour is the key
Re al I tee
I'm free to be me.

All views expressed here are not necessarily those of any deity living or deceased, fabricated or not but if you are seeking spiritual guidance there is a bloke called Brian who you should consult. Brian can be contacted through his agent, m, python, quite possibly a sinner posing as an apple seller.

davetherave

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P'tai commented Saturday, 23 Nov 2019 at 4:38pm

Bwian is just a naughty boy......

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P'tai commented Saturday, 23 Nov 2019 at 4:41pm

Mum: Your father was a Roman Brian, his name was Naughtius Maxiumus, Promised me all the gold I could eat...........
Brian: What you were raped?
Mum: Errr at first, yes...

Classic stuff

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factotum commented Sunday, 24 Nov 2019 at 3:15am

Comedy.

"Voltaire was right: “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/22/sacha-baron-cohen-fac...

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zenagain commented Sunday, 24 Nov 2019 at 3:45am

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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zenagain commented Sunday, 24 Nov 2019 at 3:47am

Who wouldn't commit attrocities if they knew they could get away scot-free?

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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velocityjohnno commented Sunday, 24 Nov 2019 at 11:26am

That's exactly my philosophy with chocolate biscuits in the house, but I think they may have cottoned on to me.

&tbb: does that mean you can surf on a board again? Well done, if so.

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factotum commented Sunday, 24 Nov 2019 at 12:09pm
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AndyM commented Sunday, 24 Nov 2019 at 12:29pm

Interesting article Facto.

Libertarianism is a "teenage fantasy that we need to outgrow" - couldn't agree more and that applies across the whole political spectrum.

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factotum commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 12:35am
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factotum commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 12:55pm
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factotum commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 12:56pm

From the 1976 interview above:

QUESTION: How far does the success of libertarian socialism or anarchism really depend on a fundamental change in the nature of man, both in his motivation, his altruism, and also in his knowledge and sophistication?

CHOMSKY: I think it not only depends on it but in fact the whole purpose of libertarian socialism is that it will contribute to it. It will contribute to a spiritual transformation — precisely that kind of great transformation in the way humans conceive of themselves and their ability to act, to decide, to create, to produce, to enquire — precisely that spiritual transformation that social thinkers from the left-Marxist traditions, from Luxembourg, say, through anarcho-syndicalists, have always emphasized. So, on the one hand, it requires that spiritual transformation. On the other hand, its purpose is to create institutions which will contribute to that transformation in the nature of work, the nature of creative activity, simply in social bonds among people, and through this interaction of creating institutions which permit new aspects of human nature to flourish. And then the building of still more libertarian institutions to which these liberated human beings can contribute. This is the evolution of socialism as I understand it.

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factotum commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 12:56pm

QUESTION: And finally, Professor Chomsky, what do you think of the chances of societies along these lines coming into being in the major industrial countries in the West in the next quarter of a century or so?

CHOMSKY: I don’t think I’m wise enough, or informed enough, to make predictions and I think predictions about such poorly understood matters probably generally reflect personality more than judgment. But I think this much at least we can say: there are obvious tendencies in industrial capitalism towards concentration of power in narrow economic empires and in what is increasingly becoming a totalitarian state. These are tendencies that have been going on for a long time, and I don’t see anything stopping them really. I think those tendencies will continue. They’re part of the stagnation and decline of capitalist institutions.

Now, it seems to me that the development towards state totalitarianism and towards economic concentration — and, of course, they are linked — will continually lead to revulsion, to efforts of personal liberation and to organizational efforts at social liberation. And that’ll take all sorts of forms. Throughout all Europe, in one form or another, there is a call for what is sometimes called worker participation or co-determination, or even sometimes worker control. Now, most of these efforts are minimal. I think that they’re misleading — in fact, may even undermine efforts for the working class to liberate itself. But, in part, they’re responsive to a strong intuition and understanding that coercion and repression, whether by private economic power or by the state bureaucracy, is by no means a necessary feature of human life. And the more those concentrations of power and authority continue, the more we will see revulsion against them and efforts to organize and overthrow them. Sooner or later, they’ll succeed, I hope.

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blindboy commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 1:50pm

Ha ha .......because it worked so well in the Soviet Union?

"I think it not only depends on it but in fact the whole purpose of libertarian socialism is that it will contribute to it. It will contribute to a spiritual transformation — precisely that kind of great transformation in the way humans conceive of themselves and their ability to act, to decide, to create, to produce, to enquire — precisely that spiritual transformation that social thinkers from the left-Marxist traditions, from Luxembourg, say, through anarcho-syndicalists, have always emphasized."

Sounds like a quote from Trotsky.

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sypkan commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 1:54pm

So is libertarianism good or bad?

I see it as very close to the positive view of anarchism

a view Im quite partial to...

but chomsky is right, humans aren't bright enough for that yet

Yet its being thrust upon them through technology with the internet. developing somewhat organically. a phenomenom chomsky didn't see coming

but its facilitating chomsky's vision, but I dare say, just not how he'd like it to

the leftys the rightys, the business interests, the governments, the woke folk, the wankers, they all have totalitarian tendencies

and the people are rejecting them all.... thankfully....

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freeride76 commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 1:58pm

libertarianism is being thrust upon us by the internet?

I'll have what you're smoking.

the internet is facilitating the exact opposite: the techno-surveillance state.

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sypkan commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:10pm

Its a battle between the two freeride, the powers have lost control of the narrative

they're now desperately trying to reign that loss in, unsucessfully, embarrassingly unsucessdully. the cats out of the bag. its only gonna become more about the clean 'accepted' vesion of events versus the version of the subversive pirate types

its just gonna be more like the china model sadly

cyberwarfare within countries

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sypkan commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:07pm

and just for the record

I find your average garden variety internet libertarian quite annoying

really really annoying actually

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stunet commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:37pm

Not really flowing on from the comments above, but whatever, this is MY SPACE and I can say whatever I WANT!

I always figured Libertarianism to be the opposite of Guevara's quote about trembling with indignation at every injustice, as it considers each person a separate unit cut off from society, and therefore without empathy for others. The extremes being Ayn Rand and those who believe poor and oppressed people deserve their fate.

That's the other thing, how many poor or dispossessed Libertarians are there? It's a luxury of the well off. A way to assuage good fortune and put it all down to hard work.

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Blowin commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:39pm

Ummm, Stu, I’ll do the intermittent caps lock shouting around here if you don’t mind.

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stunet commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:41pm

Actually that reads more like petulance than Libertarian, doesn't it?

Sorry to step on your toes.

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Blowin commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:42pm

Can I get an example of a libertarian opinion. Still not sure if I’m grasping the concept ? Who, if anyone, would be defined as libertarian on here ?

A stereotypical recreation of a standard post will be just the ticket if anyone’s game.

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Blowin commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:44pm

It’s very hard to avoid stepping on the toes of the petulant. Their toes are extremely large and eminently sensitive.

I myself am forced to wear size 24 shoes.

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factotum commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:55pm

Reading.

QUESTION: Professor Chomsky, perhaps we should start by trying to define what is not meant by anarchism — the word anarchy is derived, after all, from the Greek, literally meaning “no government.” Now, presumably people who talk about anarchy or anarchism as a system of political philosophy don’t just mean that, as it were, as of January 1st next year, government as we now understand it will suddenly cease; there would be no police, no rules of the road, no laws, no tax collectors, no post office, and so forth. Presumably, it means something more complicated than that.

CHOMSKY: Well, yes to some of those questions, no to others. They may very well mean no policemen, but I don’t think they would mean no rules of the road. In fact, I should say to begin with that the term anarchism is used to cover quite a range of political ideas, but I would prefer to think of it as the libertarian left, and from that point of view anarchism can be conceived as a kind of voluntary socialism, that is, as libertarian socialist or anarcho-syndicalist or communist anarchist, in the tradition of, say, Bakunin and Kropotkin and others. They had in mind a highly organized form of society, but a society that was organized on the basis of organic units, organic communities. And generally, they meant by that the workplace and the neighborhood, and from those two basic units there could derive through federal arrangements a highly integrated kind of social organization which might be national or even international in scope. And these decisions could be made over a substantial range, but by delegates who are always part of the organic community from which they come, to which they return, and in which, in fact, they live.

QUESTION: So it doesn’t mean a society in which there is, literally speaking, no government, so much as a society in which the primary source of authority comes, as it were, from the bottom up, and not the top down. Whereas representative democracy, as we have it in the United States and in Britain, would be regarded as a from-the-top-down authority, even though ultimately the voters decide.

CHOMSKY: Representative democracy, as in, say, the United States or Great Britain, would be criticized by an anarchist of this school on two grounds. First of all because there is a monopoly of power centralized in the state, and secondly — and critically — because the representative democracy is limited to the political sphere and in no serious way encroaches on the economic sphere. Anarchists of this tradition have always held that democratic control of one’s productive life is at the core of any serious human liberation, or, for that matter, of any significant democratic practice. That is, as long as individuals are compelled to rent themselves on the market to those who are willing to hire them, as long as their role in production is simply that of ancillary tools, then there are striking elements of coercion and oppression that make talk of democracy very limited, if even meaningful.

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factotum commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:56pm

QUESTION: Historically speaking, have there been any sustained examples on any substantial scale of societies which approximated to the anarchist ideal?

CHOMSKY: There are small societies, small in number, that I think have done so quite well, and there are a few examples of large scale libertarian revolutions which were largely anarchist in their structure. As to the first, small societies extending over a long period, I myself think the most dramatic example is perhaps the Israeli kibbutzim, which for a long period really were constructed on anarchist principles, that is: self-management, direct worker control, integration of agriculture, industry, service, personal participation in self-management. And they were, I should think, extraordinarily successful by almost any measure that one can impose.

QUESTION: But they were presumably, and still are, in the framework of a conventional state which guarantees certain basic stabilities.

CHOMSKY: Well, they weren’t always. Actually, their history is rather interesting. Since 1948 they’ve been in the framework of a conventional state. Prior to that they were within the framework of the colonial enclave and, in fact, there was a subterranean, largely cooperative society, which was not really part of the system of the British mandate, but was functioning outside of it. And to some extent, that’s survived the establishment of the state, though of course, it became integrated itself into the state and in my view lost a fair amount of its libertarian socialist character through this process, and through other processes which are unique to the history of that region which we need not go into.

However, as functioning libertarian socialist institutions, I think they are an interesting model that is highly relevant to advanced industrial societies in a way in which some of the other examples that have existed in the past are not. A good example of a really large-scale anarchist revolution — in fact the best example to my knowledge — is the Spanish revolution of 1936, in which, over most of Republican Spain, there was a quite inspiring anarchist revolution that involved both industry and agriculture over substantial areas, developed in a way which to the outside, looks spontaneous. Though, in fact, if you look at the roots of it, you discover that it was based on some three generations of experiment, thought and work which extended anarchist ideas to very large parts of the population in this largely pre-industrial — though not totally pre-industrial — society.

And that, again, was, by both human measures and indeed anyone’s economic measures, quite successful. That is, production continued effectively; workers in farms and factories proved quite capable of managing their affairs without coercion from above, contrary to what lots of socialists, communists, liberals and others wanted to believe. And in fact, you can’t tell what would have happened. That anarchist revolution was simply destroyed by force, but during the brief period in which it was alive I think it was a highly successful and, as I say, in many ways a very inspiring testimony to the ability of poor working people to organize and manage their own affairs, extremely successfully, without coercion and control. How relevant the Spanish experience is to an advanced industrial society one might question in detail.

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stunet commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 2:59pm

Mate, I don't care if it is Gnome Chomsky.

TL;DR.

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sypkan commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 3:06pm

a very valid example stunet

but I reckon there's many kinds of libertarianism, and its more a trend rather than a thing

"Can I get an example of a libertarian opinion. Still not sure if I’m grasping the concept ? Who, if anyone, would be defined as libertarian on here ?"

discostu, david koch

long gone, mysteriously, surprisingly, with trump doing all that winning

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velocityjohnno commented Monday, 25 Nov 2019 at 3:18pm

Blowin, I'd be Libertarian on here, money wise at least.
Let the people decide what holds value and what is a form of exchange. Let the people decide the time-value of money (aka the interest rate, or conditions of lending for enterprise). Let the people place value on things through their human action between each other - ie establish pricing; on everything from chocolate bars to real estate to financial assets.

It's definitely a different philosophy to what we have now; where governments decide by fiat the medium of exchange; where central banks (chapter 5 in "the Communist manifesto" is the need for a central bank) set the rate of interest; where currency (in the form of a loan) is established at the click of a computer button when you sign up; and where QE funny munny is juiced out of thin air and inflates bubble after bubble in RE, stockmarkets, commodities, classic cars, art etc etc etc

How about something more honest? Nothing teenager about it, it's been done again and again over the last 5000 years.