Interesting things too

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:21pm

For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 7:51pm

Hey soggy dog. I've been a tradie and still hire them on a regular basis. Happy to pay good ones $80 an hour, but there's so many shit tradies who aren't worth half that and still charge top dollar.
I've been on heaps of sites with drunks who fuck things up, steal, are lazy, and then bitch and moan about immigrants who take their jobs. The biggest fuckwit tradie I've ever come across was a slob plastered who wrote White Power on every sheet he put up on a commercial site. What a flog.
Also reckon good tradies are the best type of people. Honest, hard working, and appreciative that they live in a great country. The type of people you're happy to help out knowing full well they've got your back as well.

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mikehunt207 Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 8:12pm

Not everybody uses or would want to use Facebook Indo.
If you want a forum surfing chat on FB I,m sure you can do / find it, along with all the rest of the self absorbed , narcissistic , show off crapola that FB and other "social media platforms represent / provide for the masses .
I am a paid up member under another user name which I rarely (if ever) have used , I think what Swellnet provide here in their forums are a great model with the limited moderation and free speech allowing topics and opinions to be expressed without bias. If you have ever tried to comment on sites such as surfline .com , CW (same company apparently), magic seaweed etc etc , any negativity, swearing, pretty much any seeming anti social comment or any general criticism will be moderated and disappeared , not only boring as batshit but defeats the purpose of any constructive debate at its roots.
One day there will be a lot of people who will regret having given all their personal information to a company like facebook IMO.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 8:15pm

"The biggest fuckwit tradie I've ever come across was a slob plastered who wrote White Power on every sheet he put up on a commercial site. What a flog."

Bald headed dude?

I remember in the early 90s a tradie (painter or plasterer i think) had an actual business called "White power" had a white bedford van from memory.

He was much older than me looked like a Nazi/skin head solid guy dodgy tatts, totally loose dodgy dude.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 8:34pm

He was a heavily tattooed fat 25ish nazi. Fucking tweeker was always pushing his racist shit to white guys on site and being generally unpleasant to everyone else. I ended up telling him to shut the fuck up and reported him to the foreman. Weak prick crumbled when confronted.
Last thing anyone needs on a site is some fucker like that.

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velocityjohnno Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 9:48pm

"Indo your idea about having to log in from a Facebook profile is a horrible one. Facebook is a scourge on society and should be banished from our lives.
That would instantly end my involvement in swellnet (not that anyone would care) and probably a few others."

2nd Amen to that.

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velocityjohnno Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 10:03pm

Actually, while we are on topic, let's do this Joe Rogan style :

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 10:11am

Indo, You totally misrepresent my position on religion, surprise!

To restate, I have no problem criticizing Islam or any other institutional religion. But I do distinguish between the institution(s) and individual belief as I try to be respectful of an individual’s faith and how they may peacefully follow that faith. So I simultaneously have zero tolerance for the way institutional religions have become corrupted but some sympathy for the true follower of that faith. See the nuance?

Now, I note what you have done here. Deflecting attention away from your own strident and often questionable views endlessly repeated here on religion, refugees, Aboriginality and most recently Jacinta Ardern and of course the common thread in all of those topics is what the perennially angry over at Fox/Murdoch were talking about at the time.

All your work Indo and all stridently stated, not one entry, but countless, comments a reasonable person would find insensitive / offensive and yet when you get a reaction, sometimes expressed in colourful or crude terms, you taunt and double down, never any doubt in your mind, and yet when the shit really hits the fan you cry foul and snivel to Stu to ban people from Swellnet.

I have zero sympathy for what comes your way Indo.

EDIT: Not sure how I forgot to add your comments about climate change, energy and the environment, calls for more authoritarian approach to protests like Extinction Rebellion, support for Hanson and Trump but I did. All asserted without any doubt.

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Rabbits68 Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 10:37am

Well said GS. I find it hard to believe others are so blinded.....

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zenagain Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 10:47am

A third amen to logging in with facebook- bugger that.

A few more and we'd have ourselves a congregation.

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stunet Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 10:52am

Don't worry, there's zero chance of running Facebook comments on Swellnet, nor even Disqus comments, both of which hand the controls and database info over to a third party.

The reasons our comments are a bit clunky in comparison is because we built the forum and comment architecture so they'd be completely housed within our website environment.

That said, some dev work is coming.

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zenagain Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 11:06am

Swellnet would have a goldmine of data if marketers were looking for the discerning middle aged man demographic.

My guess is supply well outstrips demand though.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 3:48pm


What a load of bollocks you are a complete hypocrite

You would never dare critique islam and in your eyes anyone who does is racist or something but you are 100% happy to critique or mock christianity or have no issue with others doing so.

Same deal with anyone of colour they could be Trump like and you would never dare say a thing, unless people are white, straight and atheist or Christian it's all off limits too you.

And now i can't critique or mock a politician?

So why is Jacinta Arden a protected species?

Because she shares your political and social views?

You have a clear dislike for Scomo and clear dislike of Howard and said just as nasty things about both

So what's the difference?

You always want to paint me as some far right racist, with fringe views (your words) its crazy because it is so so far from the truth and a total misrepresentation of my views.

As for indigenous people i respect them just like anyone else, im even a fan of indigenous people like Jacinta price, Anthony dillion, Josephine Cashman people with truly progressive views and answers who look foward instead of always looking backwards.

Also have no issue whatsoever with refugees, only have an issue with those who try to game the system, and feel strongly that the refugee convention written over 60 years ago is outdated

Ive said many times i think Australia should demand its updated and if not part from it, yet increase our refugee intake to show we are not against refugees.

BTW. I dont even like Trump i think he is crazy, but i do enjoy seeing him piss of the left and as for Pauline so much she says i dont agree with, i just respect her for being so resilient she is just so strong, she has taken more crap than any Aussie for so long and done it as a women in a male dominated field, that earns great respect with me.

Dale -Cooper's picture
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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 3:18pm

Never mind the bullocks, here's Info Dreamin's sacred cows!

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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 3:18pm

"If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
When you get knocked down, you gotta get back up
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer
But I know enough to know
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough"

Roger Alan Wade

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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 3:20pm

Allied to the Wade quote directly above,

An old Swellnetonian meeting of the minds:

"Did you just accuse someone who’s lived in the world biggest Muslim nation with his Indonesian wife and actually lived amongst Indonesians in a Muslim majority province a “narrow minded bigot scared of what he doesn’t know?"

"In regard to Indonesia and islam, yes i have lived and worked there and spent much time in Indonesia, most of which has been staying in private homes with Indonesians, and although my wife is catholic Indonesian, she has 10 aunties/uncles a few of which have married and converted to islam, one of her uncles even has a few wives.

I also have about a 50/50 split in Indonesian friends muslim and non muslim in Indonesia and OZ, although almost all of those muslim friends are really not practising (just do the Ramadan thing and not eat pork etc) but they generally come from family's that are much more religious and I've gone and stayed with a few which is interesting.

But in all honestly you don't really learn much about Islam itself from them just the way muslims in Indonesia live, even if you ask them about certain aspects of islam (that i rarely do) they generally don't know much about the details of things, i guess its no different to Christians most just go through the motions even those practising go to church sing a few songs, pray, listen to a sermon and then go about everyday life, if you ask them about aspects of the bible most cant tell you much, just the basic stories, its only the full on ones especially certain denominations or born again ones that can quote bible verses and then actually tell you what they really mean."

"Never let the facts get in the way of a good smear, hey ?"

"To be honest i think I've learnt more about islam itself from watching you tube videos from X muslims that have studied islam and questioned islam deeper and then gone fuck this shit makes no sense and have become atheist plus about how its practised in other counties which is practised quite differently to Indonesia."


Lloyd Christmas & Harry Dunne.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 4:25pm

Ha ha imagine being bothered to actually trawl through countless old threads to find those old post for what?

What was the actual point you were trying to make?

Everything in those previous post is true. (the first post was from someone else though)

Im not an expert in Christianity or Islam, but ive still has enough interaction with them both and the effects on societies they are dominant in, im comfortable with critiquing or even mocking either, the same way as most non Christians are in critiquing/mocking Christianity.

And always the religion and never directly the believer.

That said i dont think you need to have any experience/interaction with a religion to critique or mock it (but some clearly feel they do), ive never met a scientologist or been in their place of worship, but still know from limited knowledge of scientology that it's just some crazy made up stories and a religion more about money than anything else.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 4:55pm
Is it still immigrants' fault for housing affordability problems? or do ya think our tax system which massively favours investment properties might have something to do with it?

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truebluebasher Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 5:39pm

Covid -19 Theme Song ~ "Send Oz to Hell Together!"
Oz World Police State HQ... has China licking Scomo's Docs.

Virus Guilt : Oz invite & pay China to unlock Hendra/Lyssavirus to start Pandemic
Oz now accuses China for what we & 60 other nations ordered : 'Covid-19'
Oz WR scorecard cowers wimpy Police States by 10 -20 x power factor.

#1 Racist Leader : Oz PM Scomo declares 10 year war on China.
#1 Biggest Bully: Oz PM Scomo...No Beer & No Sex
#1 Racists: Oz threatens to kill 12 Chinese/day (Only 5% of threats are reported)
#1 Rulers: Oz target homeless (1 Aborigine arrested 37x in 1 month > 3x 15 min)
#1 Sports Rort: Aboriginal players are fined 5x more than white players.
#1 SD Policing: Police raided remote communities to head count & fine occupants.
#1 White Trash: East Sydney (Highest Cases) Least arrested % of all Oz.
#1 Highest DV: OZ ( Vic / Qld ) 30% rise (Fed / NSW abandon all DV inquiries)
#1 DV Tracker: Govt redesigned app to track users & refused safety concerns.
#1 Violent attacks: OZ & mostly on migrant women + Deafening silence (slaves)
#1 Police spend: OZ Riot Gear & Surveillance + GPS +Tracking + Drones
#1 Dobbers: Victorians dobbed in 173,000 fellow citizens.
#1 Most Arrests: Victoria 5,604 vs (NYC - 374)
#1 Highest Fines: Oz $50,000 for Coughing,sneezing.spitting over a person.
#1 Highest Surfing Fee: Qld = $13,345 vs (UK - Standard beach breach = $112)
#1 Beach Perverts: Mornington Peninsular 1,652 dobberz in one day.
#1 Highest Virus Fine Tally: $8m Victoria
#1 Alcoholics: Oz 70% increase in Grog consumption
#1 Kid Haters: Oz No Jab- No Play (No Kindy,School,Family support)
#1 Runaway Kid haters: Police fine > abused Kids & Stole their laptops.
#1 Elder Abuse: Govt ban Aged visits,therapy,work >(Cash) Transit/Banking/Bills.
#1 Laziest app: Govt: "COVID Safe doesn't work how it should!" IT fail # 20/20

Not US or China but we Aussies are the most feared Police State.(On every level)
Please: Next time someone, anyone raises Oz Police State. That is because it is!
Deny it all you like but Coronavirus summoned Oz Demons out of the closet.
tbb reckons he only trapped half of them here...not enough to raise an eyebrow.

Back to the Skyrocketing polls...Wow! These * * Starshots** look really pretty!

Dale -Cooper's picture
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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 6:30pm

Nah, it's the Chinese, Vic.

MacroBollocks told me.

Speaking of bollocks...

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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 5:44pm

Never mind the bullocks*, here's INFOOOOOOOO...

"To be honest i think I've learnt more about islam itself from watching you tube videos from X muslims that have studied islam and questioned islam deeper and then gone fuck this shit makes no sense and have become atheist plus about how its practised in other counties..."

* Why'd you edit your 'bullocks' to 'bollocks', Info Dreamin'? One of the funniest things you've ever produced. Yew!

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 8:05pm

100% agree Youtube can be a bad source of information, all the conspiracy theory crap the obvious example, but it can also be a great source of information, it really depends on the source of the videos.

For instance where else would you get access to the views of people who have been brought up in a religion or cult and then turned their back on it?

Maybe on a TV docco or if they write a book or at some special talk, but thats about it and bar the TV docco if you catch one, you would have to put in a bit of interest or effort to read the whole book or go to a talk etc and it would be very rare too met these people in day to day life.

Personally I'm a big believer in lived experience, but just as importantly a big believer in listening to other peoples lived experiences.

IMHO we can learn something from everyone, what i can learn from you though im still a little confused about?

Maybe how to be an obnoxious troll? (or i should say how not to be?)

I do recall in relation to Islam this was one of the videos, a two part series, very interesting just rewatched.

First video is his only experience and story growing up the guilt of religion etc but pretty full on story, the second video is probably a bit more raw and in your face, how views on Islam, expect would be quite controversial for some.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 6:23pm

This is another great example, not sure if anyone has followed Louis Theroux at Westboro Baptist Church doccos.

If you have this is super interesting one of the best Joe Rogan interviews, an amazing and inspirational women.

PS. he he... Yes I edited Bollocks because i obviously farked up, was on my phone at lunch and in a rush.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 6:23pm

Just got the call up by the Neighbourhood Grand Poohbahs

Anyone! What's this about?
Coming to a town near you & you & you!
Do we need to be frightened?

Does tbb need deep cover for the uprising!

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LOCALIST Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 6:37pm

i thought rogan used to be good. until he had this commy old fuckwit on and said he would vote for him. lost it

another yank dickhead

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LOCALIST Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 6:38pm

fuck that muslem shit. who cares. we know what there like. indo

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 6:41pm

In all honestly i dont know how i feel about Joe he is a bit of chameleon in his own views political and social, but the people he has on are sometimes interesting.

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goofyfoot Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 7:19pm

Indo I listened to the Daryl Davis interview with Rogan today that someone posted the link to recently.
He is an incredible man, well worth a listen

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 8:07pm

Cool will check it out.

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Patrick Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 8:35pm

Yeah, I posted the Darryl Davis interview. Not so much for the content, which of course is great, but as an example of how to converse without getting riled up and creating a shit fight. 

Rogan provides a platform for ideas to be fleshed out over a two or three hour period, (which seems to unsettle those who communicate in one track soundbites while collecting internet points).

Indo, you might like his interview with Melissa Chen, do you know her?  She started a group that translates secular and atheist writings into Arabic for digital distribution in the arab world.  Millions have been downloaded (Christopher Hitchens, etc).

Also, I know you've talked up Singapore's system of governance and she is from there and is very critical of the government. She now lives in the US and helped someone who was critical of the Singaporean govt to flee and seek political asylum in the US.  (Though he later turned out to produce pro-peado material and so she tried to get him deported back, ha).

Armin Navabi, who you posted a clip of earlier, has  personally helped atheists and apostates with the practicalities of escaping Islamic totalitarian countries.

To bring it full circle, speaking of cults and hardcore punk (which often gets a mention here), there's a Rogan show with Ray Cappo from Youth of Today/Shelter.  Talks about NY scene, living in a monastary n more shit.

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Dale -Cooper Wednesday, 27 May 2020 at 11:22pm

Well, well, quite the Joe Rogan fanclub!

An interesting and revealing thing I found about the Bernie Sanders interview post from our new #1 redneck (ex) fan wasn't the content - it was pretty much standard Sanders in as far as the bedrock beliefs underpinning his policy positions haven't really changed in years. His integrity is a big part of his appeal - no, it was that all this was such a seeming revelation to ol' Joe.

And don't get me started on his fans! Check the comments on there.

Funny to read dudes who know nada about 'communism' reel in shock that Sanders isn't a 'commie'*! And that he makes sense! To them and their lives!

Illuminating stuff.

About his audience.

And the state of the States.

Yes, illuminating indeed.

*apart from the new redneck kid on the block, the localist! FFS.

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indo-dreaming Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 8:25am


I will have to give it a rewatch to see, i can't remember if i watched the whole episode of Melissa Chen or if i just watched the shorter clips, i think i recall liking her even if she wasn't always so nice to my fav city :P

Actually i think i like KL more these days as a city, but still a big fan of Singapores governance, but off course you always have mixed views and opinions on things like that.

Next one up though sounds like it will be Darryl Davis sounds interesting.

Dont know if you have watched that Megan Phelps one above it's a bit along those same lines, dont know if you know her history but she was born into this church/mild cult that use to protest publicly against homosexuals etc but real strong hate type stuff, then some guy on twitter basically a troll started getting her rethinking and questioning her churches beliefs, and she eventually left the church.

Real smart well spoken and thought out women and just interesting to see how people can do a 360 change on mindsets, it was a while back that i watched it but at the time i remember thinking it was one of the better Joe rogan interviews, but that said im a fan of Louis Theroux and his doccos and had watched all the Westboro Baptist Church doccos so i was watching it from a point where i already had an insight to who she was before and the crazy family she came from.

It's always hard to know with those Joe Rogan interview's what they are going to be like some you expect to be real good are not so great and then others from people you think you have no interest in or have never heard of are quite interesting.

Watched the Tony Hawk one the other day, as an X skater from late 80s early 90s, it was okay, he seems a real good guy as always painted out to be, but otherwise IMHO wasn't anything special, so sometimes you just dont know until you watch them.

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Patrick Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 8:48am

Thanks, I don't know Megan. I've listened to other Armin interviews with people leaving their oppressive religions and families. Some crazy shit goes on.

Yep, Rogan shows can be great or bland. If you're already familiar with Chen I wouldn't bother listening to the whole show.

Darryl Davis one is awesome.

The Edward Snowden one was good for all the info he reveals & the tips on how to protect your phone & internet privacy and the funny bit where he decides 'I've got high level access, I'm gonna look up the far out shit' and didn't find anything on aliens or chemtrails, haha.

If you're into mycology/fungi the Paul Stamets ones are great. Leading expert. Very funny story about his first psilocybin trip too, though he doesn't focus on that, it's all about the beauty and uniquness of the fungi and some historical and cultural uses (fire carrying, textiles).

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Dale -Cooper Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 11:35am

ID, re: Hawk, forget Rogan, go to the source.

The weekly Nine Club features a lot of great chatter with lots of old timers. Cab, Mountain, Mike Vallely, Hosoi etc etc etc

Jeff Grosso is a good one (RIP). Steve Olsen is one of my faves. Hilarious. There's also a Father's Day special with him and his son (who's also a pro) that's a hoot.

More interesting characters from all eras than you can poke a stick at.

Dustin Dollin the Aussie (some Irons brothers tales too...sniff sniff); Jason Dill; Andy Roy.

And unsanitised.

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truebluebasher Monday, 1 Jun 2020 at 8:34am
Dale -Cooper's picture
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Dale -Cooper Monday, 1 Jun 2020 at 5:02pm

"While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime," he said. "And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures ... (who wouldn't) accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to freedom."

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saltyone Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 7:49am

I don’t condone oppression against people based on skin colour one bit but I feel the whole thing has been a set up.The timing is just too convenient . The footage from the paid professional protester who started the fury going in what was a peaceful demonstration by smashing windows at autozone ( a cop whose identity by the way was also confirmed by ex wife but of course the cops don’t want you to know that )

They knew it would likely blow up with some agitation. Many locals black included were horrified by local businesses being completely destroyed around them- the town they live .
There are a lot of actors in the U.S out of work at the moment too remember as well as a lot of non actors . Not to mention all the prisoners released .Who wouldn’t like a nice fat pay check .
Isn’t Obamagate starting today ?

Here in Australia some are trying to rile up people to protest Floyd and treatment of indigenous people with an event happening today under the “black lives matter” slogan . Interestingly it has been organised by the members Australian Communist Party . Some of them from the U.S, and they look dumb and suss as fuck . Will be interesting to see how peaceful it will be. Also important to note that many indigenous elders have not agreed to this protest .
The u.s is on verge of civil war we don’t need that shit here when we are coming out of lockdown and trying to get back to normal . The last thing businesses and shops need is to be vandalised and set on fire with subsequent further police and military intervention.

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Ape Anonymous Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 9:45am

Saltyone has been drinking from the fountain of knowledge.
To add:
Mainstream media is a racist homo-eroticism. They love to divide people and fuck each other in the ass. Media telling us that protests are about skin colour, promoting racism, give me a break. Protesters attacked CNN building... good!

Sounds like Americans are sick of all the authoritarian lies and corruption, disintegration of free speech, constriction on general liberty, endless war, dead capitalism, rising feudalism..

"PLANDEMIC" - great term.

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Dale -Cooper Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 11:27am


here you go fellas.

Go to the source. Stock up.

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Dale -Cooper Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 2:45pm

Meanwhile in Australia...

Since the royal commission into Aboriginal deaths in custody released its recommendations in 1991, there have been more than 400 Indigenous deaths in custody.


The US has the highest rate of imprisonment (in number and by percentage of population).

In the US, the African-American people are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,207 per 100,000).

Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated by percentage of their population (2,346 per 100,000).

And it's getting worse here!

Ah well...

#nuthin2seehere #divisive! #getoverit? #ebony&ivory

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Blowin Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 4:11pm

Yep , it’s shithouse regarding the indigenous incarceration rate in Australia, but considering that 28 percent of incarcerated people are indigenous but they account for 20 percent of deaths in custody, I wouldn’t say that there’s any systemic racially driven motives behind the statistics.

It’s unfortunate, but not representative of a culture of murderous or disrespectful policing.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 4:12pm

Both rates of deaths for non indigenous and indigenous in custody/prison have been falling, the indigenous rates falling slightly more than non indigenous rates. (id assume the reason for fall in death being more prevention of suicide which is one of the main causes of death in custody/prison)

Statically speaking indigenous people are actually slightly less likely to die in prison than a non indigenous people.

You can read more about it here from Anthony Dillion

And another article linked in his article

Obviously they are over represented in committing crimes though and being incarcerated, but thats a complex discussion in itself.

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Dale -Cooper Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 4:23pm

"Systemic [or institutional] different from individual racism because it
describes the outcomes of activities and processes rather than intentions and attitudes, and reflects organisational, rather than individual, failure to understand the impact of policies and procedures on Aboriginal people.

Because it is concerned with outcomes and processes, the systemic racism construct does provide a valuable tool for evaluating performance in key areas.

Systemic discrimination can occur “irrespective of the intent of the individuals who carry out the activities of the institution” (Bowling, in Macpherson, 1999).

It focuses attention, therefore, on the negative unintended consequences of policies that are imagined, designed and implemented without full realisation of their potential impact on Aboriginal people: or made on the basis of stereotyped images of Indigenous people, circulating within the cultures of organisations as well as within society at large.

The systemic racism construct focuses attention on institutional processes and
outcomes: where racism is the product but not necessarily the intention of behaviours, policies and practices.

However, racist attitudes may be underpinned by systemic factors, individual racist
attitudes do not exist in a vacuum: they may draw upon collective or culturally
embedded images, stereotypes and representations of Aboriginal people.
Individuals may feel empowered in their racism because that may feel that their behaviour is implicitly, if not officially, sanctioned within their organisation.

Tackling systemic racism requires a cultural shift in the approach agencies take to Indigenous clients, one where Aboriginality identity is not denied, ignored as irrelevant, or – worse still - viewed as the problem when agencies deal with Aboriginal clients."

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AndyM Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 5:19pm

In Stan Grant's latest piece:

"Political scientist Mark Lilla has described America as being in a "moral panic", gripped by the politics of identity that is a "disastrous foundation for democratic politics".

Law professor Amy Chua says political tribalism has already triggered a revolution in America.

The US, she says, is "in a perilous new situation: with nearly no one standing up for an America without identity politics: for an American identity that transcends and unites the identities of all the country's subgroups".

Is it going too far to say that Australia can be described in a similar way?

And can we consider addressing racism, systemic and individual, in Australia whilst embracing an identity that "transcends and unites"?

Is it even possible, are we in any way far enough into the conversation?

And who would lead the way anyway.

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bluediamond Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 5:55pm
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JQ Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 5:58pm

An interesting article Andy.

What I don't understand is how is there supposed to be politics without identity, everyone has to identify as belonging to some group. We're all different, we are not one amorphous blob. We're individuals.

My hope is that what we see in the US right now can't happen here, we don't have anywhere the rampant inequality that they do. Yet.

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Blowin Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 6:05pm

Plenty of crew with pale skin have been mistreated by the cops. Blackfellas certainly don’t have a monopoly on that experience.

I’ve been privy to a bit of the Ol’ Big Blue Gang slap ‘n’ tickle routine myself.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 6:06pm

Yep . Good article , Andy.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 6:13pm

JQ, I think the question isn't how there can be politics without identity, it's how we can find a common thread to unite us in some way rather than always looking for that which differentiates.
It's really, really not doing us any favours.
At the same time, I think that the race conversation has barely begun in any genuine and honest form.

Dale -Cooper's picture
Dale -Cooper's picture
Dale -Cooper Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 6:18pm

"Black Americans cannot hold onto the promise of Martin Luther King's dream when they see black people killed or abused at the hands of police."

Stan, Stan, Stan. Martin Luther King was assassinated. Malcolm X assassinated. By 'fellow' US civilians.

Black Panthers were also assassinated...but those were state-sanctioned by cops.

And what about the United States' own First Nations People? Murdered way back then, and murdered way later. Wounded Knee, 1890 and 1973.

Organised labour end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th century? Immigrants and US born alike. Brutalised.

When and where is this American "transcending and unifying" identity? And on whose terms again??

Maybe extrapolate away that regarding Australia, your peril.

Or rather someone else's. Theirs.

Jesus, Stan, the Uluru Statement didn't even get a sideways glance, let alone a 'look-in'!

Right and proper acknowledgement of Australia's real history is a start. Jeez, the Howard lost years have a lot to answer for. Black armband, pffffffft.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Tuesday, 2 Jun 2020 at 6:18pm

Yeah Blowin, I've had few positive interactions with police.
Some punter pulled a gun on me once and because the small town cop knew me and didn't like me personally, I was told that the police couldn't help me.
Now that's some professionalism.