For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.
I'm sure BoJo will sort it all out.
And our Conservatives?
Fully agree with those sentiments in the short term. Bit rich to suspend mortgage repayments but not rents. Some thought would need to be given to how to support anyone dependant on rental income though; they'd not be able to absorb the hit like a bank could. Means tested gov't support package for them? Or means tested rental assistance instead?
And for those of you who smartly paid your homes off, you get nothing!
And if it's all too expensive and you are homeless, you get nothing!
Covid-19 the kind of 'correction' you've been thinking about, VJ?
Labor made a reasonable noise about their intentions to wind back some of the LNP's uglier nonsense, from tax to industrial relations to education.
But to say they're not committed to neoliberalism?
To say that they're not committed to the privatisation or marketisation of public services?
That they're not absolutely pro-corporations to the extent that they're totally incapable of articulating an acceptable clean energy policy?
I'll give you one thing Facto, I'll retract the term "hardcore", but nothing else.
Bring on the spittle-flecked abuse.
Pupkin, if you asked me in Dec how it would end, I wouldn't have pictured this at all. Probably would have said they'd print into US election so continuing the theme of last few years. What a difference a few months have made. Will housing here even correct (that's the betting man's question)?
Just in, a giant Asteroid has hit the planet. In other news, Australian housing is up 2.3% on the quarter...
Andy, the post federal election result changes and regresses some things no doubt (great!) but, "to say that they're not committed to the privatisation or marketisation of public services?"
"Committed"?? Where and what?
And, "that they're not absolutely pro-corporations to the extent that they're totally incapable of articulating an acceptable clean energy policy?"
Again, "absolutely"? Really??
And before the real spittle flecked abuse begins - come on down Gloria and Joe - let me reiterate AGAIN.
I am not an 'establishment politics' guy. Never have been. Surely, that much is clear. (Though it's never wise to assume on here...the old 'ass' and 'you' & 'me' joke is very much alive!)
Electoral politics is not the only sphere of my political engagement. Again, it never has been the only political tool available to me. That's a given if you're politically engaged, isn't it? It's even more the case in the US and the UK. Especially the US.
"Insurrection in the streets as well as in the ballot box" is a Jello Biafra mantra.
However, unlike the US and UK, we do have compulsory voting. Vote striking was never an option for me. I know the history and what was given in the fight for representation.
So for mine, and speaking in terms of realpolitik in Australia, Federal Labor is the only establishment government we have to have.
They are the ones I will rail against, argue with and against, and attempt to derail and change...for the better, and in aid of and for better electoral party options. Importantly, from the down up, not the top down.
And as I said BEFORE, I haven't voted for them all that much. Especially federally and especially in electorates, or at times, where they do not need my vote to keep the conservatives out.
Because the other lot are unconscionable, and have been all my political life. Since the time of Fraser and the worst treasurer in recent memory (guess who?) onwards. Their ideology - as it is...actually what is it again?? - is literally toxic. Thatcherism; Reaganomics; Neoliberalism with little constraint of any type. And cheered on by the corporate media. Surprise!
And yet 71 years of federal electoral success, more often than not in this country! And that shithouse treasurer the second longest running PM in our history! Hahaha. Surprise again!
Ah well, against the grain, that's where I'll stay...swimming upstream. More Curb Your Enthusiasm than MAFS. Sleaford Mods than Phil Collins. Vine leaf roll than Maccas.
And so be it.
Anyway, Andy, come across discussion renaming Covid-19 as the 'neoliberal virus'?
Actually, have a good read of this. I concur in the main.
"Coronavirus has an important, urgent lesson to teach us. The question is: are we ready yet to listen?"
Neoliberal virus ?
It originated in China and infected more Chinese than the rest of the world put together. The Chinese spread it throughout the world.
And China is as nationalistic and rejecting of neoliberalism as can possibly be. The Chinese insist that no private company can exist without governmental permission, cooperation and involvement.
The big lesson every single country should learn from this is how important borders are and how important it is too control those borders, open borders should never be seriously discussed ever again.
And also to stop eating fucked up shit that shouldn't be eaten, we know everything weird taste like chicken, so just eat chicken instead.
Hey, Heeeeey! Hellooooooooo!
(Echo, echo, echo)
Try reading the fucking article you silly, silly boys. And then get back to us.
Facto you're reiterating nothing.
You're typing lots of words and talking loud, but saying nothing.
Labor's been neolib for 35+ years.
They're still all the way with big business and all the way with unlimited, endless growth.
They're starting to genuinely think about a reshuffle of tax and equity and social issues and that's great, but it's still within a neolib framework.
I appreciate what Stu has said regarding the fact that it's huge machinery with huge momentum and inertia and things can't change on the proverbial dime but that supports the argument that although Labor is starting to look more (again) towards some democratic socialist-style policies, they are very much locked into and supporting neoliberalism.
Turning round the ship of state is a slow, slow task!
Who'd a thunk it?!
FFS, it's not a SUP, Andy.
If you don't think Labor have been tracking left, in the slightest at least, especially from Gillard on, and that you think that there is any kind of real equivalence with the conservatives from Abbott on, well...
What's to be said?
Carry on, I guess.
73 years, give or take, coming right up.
What did you think of that article?
Maybe the ship of state is reef bound? Moorless?
The Mary Celeste? Or the Exxon Valdez?
I’ve already clearly stated that they’ve smelt the change in public sentiment.
And change will be a slow task because both sides support neoliberalism though one more aggressively than the other.
Still, the discussion isn’t about whether it’ll be a slow change, it’s about whether Labor is neolib, which I think they are, but with more qualifications than previously.
At the same time, all bets will be off until they get elected and show their true colours.
Mary Celeste and Exxon Valdez are fair descriptions - one ship with no one at the helm and the other leaking a toxic ooze.
As for the article, I like Jonathan Cook but I’m not convinced by one of his basic premises.
On one hand he says that our community has been taken for granted, abused and hollowed out.
Then he says that viewing ourselves as a community is a false consciousness.
Does he like community or not?
I mean, it’s clear we’re all bound together on a molecular level but for me that doesn’t negate the benefits of community, not to mention that I see them as being totally natural.
Of course his point of services being turned into commodities is spot on if a bit obvious. My thoughts especially over the last week or so have included how the liberal ethos of “we are all individuals “ and the neoliberal desire of breaking us down into individual consumers has manifested itself into what we are seeing in supermarkets i.e. every person for themselves and fuck you.
So yes, as Cook says we can see right now how the arrogance, narcissism and insecurity in our society is showing itself and it’s not pretty.
Is it a “neoliberal virus”?
From the point of view that profits come before people, I think this has already shown to be true in Australia.
And it looks like that’s the driving force behind Boris Johnson’s misguided plan.
I could be wrong.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the most “market based” approaches to dealing with the virus i.e. favouring money over people caused the most long-term disruption and the most economic damage?
Fuck knows - I’m only up typing this because I’m a casual and my shifts this week have been cancelled.
well well well...
I stand by what I said above, we need to avoid blaming individuals at all costs, ...but these cunts deserve a mouthful...
time to drag out the facey software?
^^^ check it out, ....while you still can...
the "no censorship" censorship is running hot
You’d be tempted to kick things off, as the Poms say.
No interesting shtuff happening in the 2GB thread?
This is how it works.
Particularly with a view that our political system is even more susceptible as virtually all politicians for our ( undemocratic) duopoly parties comes through the University system which makes them even easier to indoctrinate. Harder to control the political system if politicians emerge from the entire spectrum of society .
And if you’re an aging globalist without the benefit of time , this traditional route may not seem rapid enough or dominant enough . So what do you do ? You create an entire empire of tertiary education so that you can have absolute control of the narrative being indoctrinated into future leaders.
PS ....anyone else enjoying the irony as Facto tells us we need community and society after he tries to tear down any semblance of communal cohesion within Australia . He has even tried the old “ no such thing as an Australian “ tactic. He hates to see Australians united at ANZAC day or Australia Day.
He routinely denounces any recognition of Australia as a community as Right wing nationalism.
But , yeah....he’s all about society.
Maybe we just don’t understand such a lateral , left field thinker ? Against the grain and all .....with his relentless adherence to the mainstream dictates of political correctness and thought policing.
But ....he likes one of the world’s s most popular comedies , eats dolmades and doesn’t like Phil Collins......that alone puts him in a niche category of outlier thinkers which only consists of two thirds of the world’s population.
How’s the vibrants going full fuck-you to Australia with their unapologetic raping of supplies ?
Multiculturalism is our strength !
Even better when you consider that they’ll be prioritised over elderly at hospitals Australians if they get sick.
And don’t ever forget the ALP promise to allow UNLIMITED elderly parent visas for vibrants going into the elections. Imagine the situation now if the ALP had been elected with an extra million octogenarian vibrants competing for the hospital beds and rape- hoarding all the hand sanitizers and TP to onsell online ....yewwww !
I'm trying to ignore the dumbcunt, whilst most enjoying the irony that all of a sudden he wants to talk to everyone...
(as opposed to talking down to everyone, ...which is still all he achieves....)
always irony to be enjoyed with factobum
Gloria and Joe! Now there's a Sky (Swellnet) After Dark super team!
Ra(n)tings through the roof!
Stay vibrant, y'all.
ps what with all your 'vibrant' shtuff, and the Wu-flu guff, you're really, really flashing your frilly bigot knickers, Alan.
It's an unedifying and truly disturbing sight that nobody wants or needs to see. Or even picture, really.
Well, apart from Joe...
In related news...
its the WHO Wu flu!
...do keep up...
I think our government is looking into this.
“What I’m living in fear of is what’s happening in this country. No one reached out to me and said, as a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren? And if that’s the exchange, I’m all in.”
Selfless & patriotic?
What’s your point ?
FFS mate , for once in your life ....Just. Fucking.Say. It.
You’re embarrassed by your opinion aren’t you ?
Here’s a hint....grow half a ball and tell us what’s on your mind instead of alluding to it like a Scout Master approaching his troop when he wants sex.
And not a good look alluding to weird grooming shit, Gloria.
What is going on in Trumpy and ol' mate's heads? Any mirrors elsewhere?
"...There is, alas, no shortage of people looking at this in the manner prescribed by the CPC. The infantile culture wars that have crippled the West—where preening troupes of virtue brandishers who cannot distinguish between the Chinese people and their tormenters parade themselves as enlightened tribunes of the oppressed—have also created a receptive audience for Beijing’s insidious spin. Xinhua, the Communist Party’s news agency that has a history of publishing hideously racist content, now feels comfortable trolling Washington in the language of a woke millennial—“Racism is not the right tool to cover your own incompetence”—because it knows that, rather than being laughed at, its laughable message will be amplified earnestly in the West. We are living through the phenomenon described by Susan Sontag as growing “stupid together”.
The very Western idea that the world should defer to Beijing’s sensibilities and delink this pandemic from its source and its causes is not anti-racist. If anything, subordinating discomfiting facts to the noble feelings of woke Westerners is itself a form of ethnocentricism because it effaces the experience of those who aren’t Western. To describe this malady as “Wuhan virus”, which the Chinese themselves do, is not to insult or to implicate ordinary Chinese people. It is to refuse to kneel before a regime that seeks to harry us into exculpating it."
"...is disaster is a great clarifier. From London to Washington, it has exposed the malign incompetence of major Western governments. It has also shattered every supposition on which the ascent of China was premised. The liberal assumption that the West was more likely to influence China by making concessions to its rulers has proved to be a self-wounding fantasy. The West, it was claimed, was more likely to influence China by partnering with it—by creating a prominent position for it inside, rather than keeping it outside, global institutions. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the US locked itself into a self-wounding trade relationship with China. Advanced economies, underwriting Beijing’s rise by incinerating the jobs that supported their own working classes, scattered the seeds of explosive discontent at home to export material prosperity to a regime that converted it into crude power to wield against its own benefactors.
In the decades thereafter, far from shaping the Chinese state’s behaviour, it is the West that incrementally relinquished its own avowed values to appease Beijing. The CPC under President Xi is more repressive today than it was just a decade ago. It is Western authors who self-edit for the tawdry privilege of being published in China. It is Hollywood that modifies its films to placate the Chinese censors. Governments that never tire of puffing their chests at the Middle East’s tin pot tyrannies in the name of human rights now spurn the Dalai Lama for fear of offending China. And international agencies that happily hector others lose their voice when dealing with Beijing (notice the long weeks it took for WHO to declare a pandemic)."
"...From Taiwan to Hong Kong and Tibet to the South China Sea, China expects the world to accept its paramountcy—but refuses to accord any deference to the interests of other nations. It sends thugs to beat up protesters in London, punishes Norway for awarding a Nobel Prize to a Chinese dissident, wages a relentless cyber war against the US, blocks water to downstream neighbours by aggressively damming rivers that flow from territories it has colonised, and endlessly bullies its neighbours. For those exposed to its rough edges, China is not a “peaceful” power. It is an expansionist imperium.
"...the pressing priority should be, as it is, the deployment of every resource in service of bringing this nightmare to a swift end. Before we arrive there, we will have to dig mass graves, and those mass graves will multiply. Many of us will personally be ravaged by this virus; some of us will lose someone we cherish. But it will eventually be defeated. And when it is, we can either continue with the self-wounding delusions that rendered us so helpless in this moment—or we can commit ourselves to self-renewal. Self-renewal will require us to cultivate self-dependence—and, given the indisputable reconfiguration of power that is occurring before us, affirming independence from China will be the condition of achieving self-dependence.
In Britain, this will mean banning, as an initial measure, Huawei from the 5G infrastructure. Rebellion is brewing in the Tory party. A small band of MPs is coordinating to push the prime minister to abandon the self-wounding deal. Their ranks should swell. Elsewhere, this will have to take the form of doing exactly the things China forbade us to do. Individuals can conscientiously boycott to the extent possible goods made in China. They can lean on their governments to end their dependency on Beijing—and demand reparations from the CPC. In democracies, citizenly acts can make an enormous difference. Nothing irks China more than spotlighting its occupation of Tibet, the world’s largest colony, and there is no more effective way of demonstrating freedom from fear of Beijing than standing in solidarity with the Tibetans. It has been customary since the early 1990s for American presidents to invite the Dalai Lama to Washington. In 2009, Barack Obama did away with this token gesture of support for the Tibetans for fear of offending Beijing. Even the brief private audience Obama reluctantly granted the beleaguered Tibetan leader was accompanied by humiliation: the Dalai Lama was made to exit the White House through the back doors, surrounded by bags of garbage. Here’s one idea: when the last vaccine for the Wuhan virus has been administered, the president of the United States—whoever he might be—should host a state dinner for the Dalai Lama."
obama's a gimp...
the world was healthier when the lama was priotised over the xi...
China was where Italy is now when it was calling border closures “ racist “. China was experiencing the exact same death rate and overwhelmingly understaffed medical system as Italy when it Ordered the WHO to say that the cessation to human cross border flows was RACIST and an overreaction......even while China was itself welding citizens into their apartments.
Whilst China was closing its schools it was using diplomatic channels in Australia to badger us to accept their students.
Rather than give the world fair warning it hid the threat and tried to export it.
Imagine if Italy was snowed under with death and viral infection and still had the malicious drive to send as many infected Italians to Australia as possible ? To the point of getting the official Italian diplomatic channels to threaten Australia with trade consequences of we didn’t accept unhindered flow of potentially infected people from Italy .
That is literally what Australia was threatened by China 4 weeks ago.
Never trust China......or their diaspora within Australia.
Anyway, what is going on in Trumpy and ol' mate's heads*? Any mirrors elsewhere?
Facto ( Pupkin ) is a China Shill.
First against the wall cunt.
Facto ( Pupkin ) trying to undermine the FACTS . Ask yourself....why would anyone who has Australia’s interests at heart do this ?
Take a look at Pupkin’s avatar. A half-smart , self satisfied nothing who thinks a stage or a suit ....or a website ....is enough to protect them from the constant subtle white anting of our society.
*Or even what's rattling round in Diamante Joe & Creepy Gloria's vapid bonces??
Same old same old.
Now how's Scotty from Marketing going?
Sacrificing the vulnerable for the corporates or the employees for the corporates? Both? At the same time?? Health & economy! Miraculous!
You know what’s fucked ?
I keep mistaking the vapid , attention seeking nonsense of a suburban Pommy non- entity for a legitimate......anything.
Run out of booze yet? Shit paper? Both?
Never internet time, but.
Caroma-panic has won!
Poor old bugger.
Fuck you Facto and everything you stand for.
Australians were strong until they were corralled into the high density , urban nightmare you present as multicultural futurism you sell out fuckstivk.
Hang on, Fredo. Godfather II is about to start.
"It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says, like dumb! I'm smart, and I want respect!"
Poor old Fredo. Sleeping with the fishes.