New Victoria restrictions

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak started the topic in Sunday, 2 Aug 2020 at 3:15pm

Just watched the press release from Dan Andrews and I really feel for how victorians are going to once again pay for others stupidity. Not sure how they are going to police the 1 hour exercise policy but a trip down the coast for a surf could be costly. I understand these new restrictions are mainly Melbourne suburbs and I’m very grateful for where I live NSW Qld border. When we were in shutdown there was no time limit for our exercise thank god as a 3 hour surf kept me sane after losing my job.

fitzroy-21's picture
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fitzroy-21 commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 4:45pm

Andrews may not have made the final decision, but he is the Premier, so the buck stops with him. It happened under his watch. He didn't mind fronting the cameras and be seen to be making the "tough decisions" after the fact. So he has to take it on the chin and take the good with the bad.
And Flyblown, I guarantee if he was a COALition leader, you would be tearing strips off him.

blowfly's picture
blowfly's picture
blowfly commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 4:53pm

Pakula and Mikakos lying about their knowledge of security guards for example - there is video evidence

Then you might like to post a link.

For the rest, hindsight is a wonderful thing. An unprecedented situation, no existing experience, hundreds of decisions to be made with no opportunity to fully research them, no pre-existing lines of command, no clear lines of communication between the various state and federal authorities. The wonder is not that this happened in Victoria, the wonder is that it did not happen in other states as well. And there was as much good luck as good management in that outcome. Australia was actually better prepared than the vast majority of other countries and its public servants behaved with great integrity and self-sacrifice while in my judgement, politicians, on both sides did what they thought was best. As a nation we seem to have dodged a bullet. That does not lessen the tragedy that occurred in Victoria, but it puts it in perspective. Look at America, Europe, Brazil, India and a dozen other countries. Then see if you have the heart to condemn the front line decision makers in Australia.

fitzroy-21's picture
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fitzroy-21 commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 5:01pm

It's called Leadership Flyblown. You are accountable for your teams successes and it's failures. In this instance, there has been a multitude of both.

I agree we have dodged a bullet here in Aus, and I have been pleasantly surprised at the way all sides of the political spectrum have mostly pulled together and worked as a team rather than playing the usual BS politics.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 5:11pm

"You are accountable for your teams successes and it's failures. "

Yep and Andrews has repeatedly stated he accepts that. Victorians will have the chance to pass judgement at the next election and given his current approval rating, he will probably win.

September 10 2020 Finding No. 8518 Topic: Public Opinion Special Poll Press Release State Poll Country: Australia

The third Roy Morgan Snap SMS survey on Victoria’s Stage 4 restrictions shows 70% approval of Premier Daniel Andrews.

Dx3's picture
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Dx3 commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 5:17pm

Here ya go blowfly: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-25/health-minister-knew-about-privat...

If ya can't be assed clicking on it, I'll summarise with some quotes which you love.

The video shows her at a press conference with Pakula in March talking about use of security guards, amongst other things about HQ mgmt. They were also sent briefing notes on April 8, all Labor MP's received it, especially the health minister who might want to have read a briefing note regarding a health crisis as the health minister.

Mikakos initial written response at the enquiry:
"I believe I first became aware of the use of private security guards contracted by DJPR [Department of Jobs, Precincts and Regions] in the HQP after the Rydges [hotel] outbreak occurred in late May 2020,'' her written response said.

Then when the video surfaced, Mikakos' lawyers raced back to try defend her in the final hours of Friday, with the below response, but alas her ship had sailed and should would be gone by the morning.

"It is reported that at a media conference on 29 March 2020, Minister Pakula mentioned the use of security guards in the HQP (Hotel Quarantine Program), and further, that I may have received a briefing note sent to caucus by the Premier's office on or about 8 April 2020.
Consistent with the evidence that I have given the Board, I do not recall becoming aware of (and had no reason to turn my mind to) the use of security guards in the HQP on these or any other occasions prior to the Rydges outbreak in late May 2020.
As I gave my evidence the Board on 24 September 2020, this was not an issue that I specifically turned my mind to (nor did I have reason to do so) prior to the Rydges outbreak in late May 2020.
In this regard, I note that there may have been other references to the use of security between the time of commencement of the HQP and late May 2020.
However, as I gave evidence to the Board on 24 September 2020, this was not an issue that I specifically turned my mind to (nor did I have reason to do so) prior to the Rydges outbreak in late May 2020."

So as the Health Minister in the midst of the worst health crisis in 100 years, she couldn't recall nor had ANY (!!) reason to turn her mind to any level of infection control protocols or want to know who was managing the hotels at the most dangerous place in the state when it comes to the virus. So she either lied or was woefully incompetent. I think both.

That Andrews let this go on under his watch and never acted on it until the media & inquiry found it all out should see him gone too. All the inqury has shown is he's got no fucking idea what's going on in his government.
There's more to being a premier right now than standing at a lecturn for a couple of hours each day spewing a few stats out and pretending to answer questions.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 8:06pm

Yep they stuffed up, we knew that. Did they deliberately lie? It seems unlikely. They were much more likely to have forgotten that they had been informed. If you put yourself in context, for whatever reason it seems no-one in a position to do anything gave any real consideration to the issue until the outbreak.
The larger point is why seek scapegoats for what was pretty obviously a systemic failure? Mikakos, the person who had the greatest responsibility for the issue has resigned. Andrews still has the confidence of the electorate. The lessons have been learnt. What's to gain? As for me being partisan, I think I already said that I think in overall terms of the management of the pandemic, both sides have come out pretty well. The numbers alone tell us that.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 8:53pm

ffs, the cognitive dissonance is astounding...

you honestly believe they are not lying?

you honestly believe they don't know who suggssted private security?

no little chats in the corridors of power as melbourne was turning to shit?

whoever the fuck suggssted it, they were warned about problems in the first week, the first fucking week! here we are months later, still living in the land of denial and obfuscation!!!

no one of significance dropped by to check shit out?

no one asked, why did we use private security when the shit first hit the fan months ago?

...all rhetorical questions, please please dont answer, but FFS!!!

the insulting behaviour and lies you perpetuate is just a plain fucking disgrace, but hey, this is contemporary politics...

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 8:59pm

Yep, as I said I think it is unlikely that they lied. And since the inquiry found that there was no formal decision making around the use of private security guards, and that it appears to have been taken for granted after the police showed no interest in the job, yep I believe that too. And the inquiry also found that no-one of significance took any interest in the issue until the out break, so I believe that too.
Maybe you need to go and look at the findings in a bit more detail and see where they went wrong since you, in your best know all style, seem convinced that they missed something......or maybe that it was all a huge conspiracy of some sort. Me? I'll go with the evidence.

billythekid's picture
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billythekid commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 9:39pm

They definitely lied. if not, then they're just dumb. And they're not dumb. So they lied.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 9:55pm

The State government was given just over 24 hours to set up hotel quarantine by Scumo before he started waving in the planes. The cops didn't want the job, the ADF couldn't do the job, which left poorly trained private security. The state government also had to pick up the pieces of the shambolic aged care sector.
And somehow it's all Dan's fault.
Some people really have been drinking the Murdoch cool-aid.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 10:39pm

"no formal decision"

wtf does that mean? someone agreed to it, someone signed the contract, ...payed the cheques... absolutely ridiculous statement

but tbh, it doesn't really matter who, what matters is that when the system was floundering no one acted. and when questions are raised, they all play dumb. at best it is incompetence of the highest order, at worst, ...well, it is at worst, a major major fuck up, and a bunch of fucking morons with no accountability...

vicmoron, adf could do the job, viclabor just needed to put their union mates on the back burner and allow the competent people in to do it. ...fair enough, maybe give 'inclusive security are us' a run, but if they fuck up, you need to change what you are doing, and fast...

never said its all dan's fault, I've actually said he's a highly cimpetent man. the problem is him dealing with a double whamny corruption crisis whilst being hit by a pandemic. not enough processing power to deal with the multitude disasters unfolding. a bit like you monorail, only enough processing power to deal with one challenge at a time...

the corruption is rife, branch stacking corruption, china cash corruption, the corruptiion of principles, the corruption of a party, the corruption of process, and the corruption of blocking and hiding any accountability in their faux inquiry into a major disaster fuck up

...all while dandrews the dictator's belt and road desperation project is unravelling before his very eyes...

melbourne is fucked! ...and the virus is just a small part of it...

national labor is fucked too, both are in the midst of a death of an ideology nightmare, and they're yet to accept it

the worst thing is, it's all of us that will pay for their corruption and incompetence

the whole thing is a disgrace, a dereliction of duty, and a disgusting cover up from the supposed party of the workers. I honestly cannot believe how badly they have dealt with it

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 11:01pm

Wow sypkan, is there anything Dan can't be blamed for? Throwing in the Belt and Road MOU into a discussion about Hotel Quarantine is just Alan Jones talk.
Look mate, nobody is saying the Victorian government didn't fuck up. The oversight of the hotel quarantine was simply not up to scratch. It wasn't up to scratch in NSW either, but they got lucky. The soldier porking a guest and the security guard getting Covid 19 and working 4 other jobs was the equal of the Vic system, and it could have been devastating but NSW got lucky.
RWNJs like yourself have been trained like monkeys to blame and hate Dan Andrews while completely ignoring the multitude of other people who also fucked up, especially if they are conservative politicians. eg the aged care fiasco, the covid safe app fiasco, the Vic Libs who have called for looser restrictions for 6 months, and the RWNJ mother fuckers in the media who have undermined the medical health message to score political points,
Sure the fire started at the Rydges hotel, but fuck me, the cunts that ensure it spread so quickly need to own their mistakes too.
The ALP at least sacked someone. The LNP still haven't taken any responsibility for the shit app, ramming in hotel quarantine with a ridiculous lead time, and all the deaths in woefully inadequate private aged care. These fuckers never admit any mistakes, and some people wonder why they never fix them.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 11:03pm

Who was sacked?

1173

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 28 Sep 2020 at 11:36pm

what part of "never said its all dans fault" did you not understand?

you're an idiot, the adf guy was on quarantine, not working the joint, your smarter comrades like to call that shit 'false equivelance'

nsw didn't 'get lucky'. they had an effective contact tracing system, why was victoria still trying to work their contact tracing system out just weeks ago? seriously? ...just weeks ago... they've had six months...

and I've told you before, if you call me a RWNJ enough times, I might just start believing it, and voting as such. your fucked up loser team really cannot afford to lose any more voters

think about it brains

you are just one big (empty) can of whataboutery and delusion

the belt and road is done, like it or not...,

the melbourne recovery is going to be particularly difficult because dan sold you out to the xi, don't blame me for your mates patheticness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 7:36am

Don’t you find it strange that the same people who relentlessly attack Trump for the COVID deaths in the USA now think we should all just blithely accept the fact that Dan Andrew’s government’s ineptitude and corruption was directly responsible for 768 needless deaths ?

That’s over 90 percent of all COVID deaths in Australia.

Apparently we should just shrug our shoulders and acknowledge it was a fluid and unprecedented situation when Andrews is concerned but Trump should be thrown in gaol even though he was in a position of lesser direct responsibility. They think we should forgive Andrews for having learnt from his mistakes even though it’s his personal incompetence which was then translated into him personally enforcing the world’s second harshest lockdowns -only the Chinese welding of people into their apartments was worse - without a shred of evidence or advice from a medical or police perspective.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/victoria/devastation-and-despair-quarant...

Andrews has taken no responsibility. He should be sacked immediately.

billythekid's picture
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billythekid commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 7:15am

"Andrews has taken no responsibility. He should be sacked immediately."

Exactly. And what makes it even worse is he spent months telling Victorians the buck stops with him – even repeated this phrase in his sworn statement to the recent inquiry - but then throws Mikakos under the bus, saying she was ultimately in charge of the program from April 8, and before that shared the responsibility with Jobs Minister Martin Pakula.

So he took responsibility when it looked good, but denied responsibility when it looked bad.

Anyway, whatever way you want to slice it, the vic hotel quarantine saga is responsible for over 700 deaths. His govt right? He has to resign.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 7:47am

Wow billy the kid. What a start to the day. You’ve spent months on this website arguing people should be free to do what they want re covid 19. Your argument is very black and white and it’s all about individual responsibility. Today that’s out the window and your blaming dan Andrews for security guards going to big family gatherings despite being told not to do it. You live in a very confused world mate.
And you do know in a democracy, it’s the voters get to sack governments. Who exactly do you think should sack Andrews immediately. Big old billy the kid. Freedom fighter one day demanding the premier be sacked the next despite there being no legal mechanism to do this. Libertarian one day, overthrowing leaders the next.
Basically billy, your political opinion re covid 19 can be summed up as follows. No limits to your freedom, no responsibility for individual behaviours, blame a politician you don’t like for everything.
Fucking hell billy. Given your individual freedom rants, you’d be fine with those ten parties held over the weekend. How’s that herd immunity shit going?

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

UserMick's picture
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UserMick commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 8:14am

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT - SECT 51
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:
... (ix) quarantine; ...

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 8:28am

That’s it in a nutshell usermick everything to do with COVID-19 that Australia has suffered stems from the fundamental failures by Morrison. Morrison failed to close our borders early and he failed to accept it was his government that had the constitutional responsibility for quarantine. Sure there have been big mistakes made by state governments most notably here in Victoria but most if not all could have been avoided had Morrison had acted earlier. All of the old quarantine stations around the country sit on commonwealth land and have history boards and museums showing the commonwealth government of Australia’s role in quarantine. Nothing has changed legally, the constitution is the same.

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billythekid commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 8:36am

VL, to clarify, I think Dan should resign. That was my final statement above.

Herd immunity? Don't know how that's going. All I know is a lot of people are going broke. See 4 corners last night? Govt estimate is 10% of businesses on job keeper will close. Insolvency expert says its more like 20%. Syd CBD rents to fall by 40%. Melbourne "much more". Over 800 000 borrowers on mortgage repayment holidays. They're not all gonna magically start paying once that finishes (which is very soon) And this is 100% due to govt policy. So there's thousands who will lose their homes and livelihoods. "Oh but you can get a house, car, super, savings etc etc back, but you can't get a life back" - Maybe for some. But for most people theyre not getting it back. They're just gonna hang on by their fingernails for the next thirty years

Yeah, I think people should have been able to choose whether or not they wanted this to save (mostly) over 60 age group lives.

Ive said this before and I stand by it.

And before I get flogged for being a selfish millennial - I'm over 50, a homeowner and financially comfortable, the shutdown hasn't affected me at all. Further, I live on the coast and from a personal perspective, haven't minded the lockdown. So its not about what I think is best for me. I don't benefit from a diff policy. If anything, I benefit from the policy we have as it safeguards my health.

And I actually voted for Dan, so you can take all those assumptions and shove them up your &^$&!

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blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 8:46am

"Yeah, I think people should have been able to choose whether or not they wanted this to save (mostly) over 60 age group lives."

So we should have had a referendum on who should live and who should die? That's an idea that hits the Swellnet daily double in the first event of the day....moronic and offensive.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 8:48am

"Andrews has taken no responsibility. He should be sacked immediately."
Exactly
Your words billythekid.
This personal responsibility / few rules approach during a pandemic is just pure nonsense. It's failed all over the world. The virus doesn't care about your political ideology.
Do you seriously think there's no economic consequences to rapidly increasing virus numbers (that would definitely occur under your mad scheme)?
I will explain this very slowly and simply for you. There's two ends of the spectrum here. 1. Protecting human health and minimising the damage to the economy (the NZ / Aus / pacific Island /South Korean approach. or 2. Not aggressively protecting human health and getting both a health crisis and an economic crisis. The USA /UK /France /Brazil option.
You've always argued Australia should take the second option. Pure madness billythekid. Your ideology is a danger to everyone's human and financial health.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 9:02am

If people are actually interested in where the greatest responsibility for the outbreak rests I would suggest that they have a good look at Wilson Security. They had the primary responsibility to train, provision and supervise their workers...and they clearly failed in all three areas. The police and defence force had little interest in taking on this work because it was beneath their level of skill. This was about as simple as one, two, three. One, keep people in their rooms. Two, do not socialise with them. Three wear PPE when you have contact with them. Yes there should have been more oversight by the Ministers but FFS, if you hire an apparently reputable company to do a very simple task and pay them a bomb to do it, they carry a huge part of the responsibility for the damage done when they fail to meet the requirements of the contract. No doubt we will be seeing them in court.

"Under the agreement between Wilson Security and the Victorian Government's Department of Jobs, it was up to the security company to provide training — at its own cost — in workplace health and safety and risk management, as well as COVID-19 safety inductions and infection control training, before guards started work."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-29/coronavirus-victoria-hotel-quaran...

Dx3's picture
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Dx3 commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 9:04am

GuySmiley, on your point about Australia's suffering due to fed government not acting sooner - how do you reconcile that comment with the fact that Australia were nearly through this when 3 months after border closures and HQ set-up, Victoria blew up. You can't blame the slow border closure or quick requirement for hotel set-up on a fundamentally flawed program that failed 3 months after its implementation. That is also 3 months after serious health & infection control concerns were raised but not acted on by those responsible for the program, which was the state government. I'm not surprised it failed or they neglected these concerns, as it has been made very clear during the inquiry, nobody in the Vic government could recall key items about the program, nor did they have any reason to turn their mind to it...

Fed government gave responsibility for hotel mgmt to the states, that was clear. Should they have? I think so, as we've seen with contract tracing in Vic vs NSW, having it managed in a centralised manner (VIC) vs dencentralised (NSW), we see which one works better. So on hotel mgmt, fed's managing it via centralised model vs states managing it in a decentralized model wouldn't make much sense.

And finally, I want to be clear for me this isn't a partisan issue. The feds have a lot to answer for, none more important than how the fuck Richard Colbeck still has a job. His level of incompetence & disregard for his area of responsibility is sickening and he needs to go soon.

What this whole thing has shown now more than ever, there are far too many politicians collecting big pay-checks and pensions, all paid by the tax-payer, whilst doing very little actual work that benefits the people they are elected to serve.

billythekid's picture
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billythekid commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 10:07am

In Holland people choose to wear masks or not. They choose to put themselves and others at risk. That is freedom. It seems to be working well for them. Our govt is a totalitarian regime in comparison.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 10:29am

"In Holland people choose to wear masks or not. They choose to put themselves and others at risk. That is freedom."

No mate that is not freedom it is crazy. Using the same logic we should be able to choose to ignore speed limits.

As for Holland doing OK, with a population of only about 18 million they have had 6400 deaths. Australia has a population of 25 million and has had 875. Crunch the numbers and that is a death rate exactly 10 times Australia's. So, if we had followed Holland's example that would be about another 7,800 deaths. Not exactly a great idea eh Billy?

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billythekid commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 10:45am

Maybe its better than a 200 000 bankruptcies. I don't know. Just my view

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Vic Local commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 10:59am

Maybe it (7800 deaths) is better than a 200 000 bankruptcies.
FFS billythekid, you get both with your let the virus rip attitude.
How hard is to see that the countries with worse covid numbers have worse economic problems? You've got to have shit for brains not to be able to see that causal link.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 11:08am

People don’t go bankrupt when you let the virus rip. That’s a straight out lie. For the vast , vast , vast majority of people the virus is not much at all = a functioning economy.

Working age people and their children are virtually not affected.

“The US Center for Disease Control (CDC) has released an update to their research on the fatality rate associated with COVID-19. The CDC first posted this data on May 20, 2020, with the understanding that the parameter values would be updated and augmented over time. This update, dated September 10th, is based on data received by CDC through August 8, 2020.

A quick summary of COVID-19 survival rates is shown below. The summary is based on the CDC table provided at the end of this report.

CDC COVID-19 Survival Rates

Age 0-19 — 99.997%
Age 20-49 — 99.98%
Age 50-69 — 99.5%
Age 70+ — 94.6%”

The USA and Britain both destroyed their economies by locking down. It had nothing to do with death rates.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 11:22am

By Mungo MacCallum:

What is unforgivable about the Victorian shut down policies is that they are working.

"The indefatigable freedom fighters crusading to liberate the shut down in Victoria are quite right. The restrictions are stultifying, draconian, totalitarian. They are intolerable in a democracy, an affront to Australia as we know it.
And what is absolutely unforgivable is that they are working. The second wave of COVID has been dramatically flattened, infections are regularly down to less than 20 and the running fortnightly average is below 30. It is too soon to declare victory, but we can certainly report very good progress.
But wait, there’s worse. The really bad news, as faithfully recorded in The Australian, is that the national daily’s pride and joy, Newspoll, tells us that the deeply loathed premier, Daniel Andrews, is not only successful but popular. And indeed he is becoming more so; between July and August the percentage that said he was doing a good job of managing the virus rose from 56 to 62.
But how can that be? Surely he is Dictator Dan, Chairman Dan, the totalitarian president of the communist state of Danistan. The readers of the Oz have been bombarded with this news for weeks. Andrews is surely the most hated man in Australia, if not the planet.
Except that obviously he isn’t; he is liked and respected by almost two thirds of the populace, The paper’s ”informed Australians” as they like to describe themselves in the masthead, are in a humiliating minority.
And the same applies in Queensland, where Annastacia Palaszczuk is moving determinedly towards the AFL grand final and the subsequent state election. The Murdoch media and Scott Morrison’s government have been piling on to her to demand earlier and more comprehensive open borders, but she has held firm and the voters agree with her.
Despite the faith of its devisers and publishers, Newspoll is not infallible. But its errors are generally marginal. It is highly unlikely to be wrong by more than ten per cent. And for various reasons it pays particular attention to the sunshine state. So Labor must be encouraged by the result.
But not entirely confident.. The premier is not unpopular, but she is not embraced either. And there are many contested issues beyond the pandemic; many, if not most punters are far from locked in.
But if Palaszczuk has problems, look at her opposition. The unhappy union between the Nats and the Libs has seldom been more fraught.
Even if the ongoing leadership tussles can be resolved, or at least papered over, the ongoing feud has been stoked by the retirement of the long-standing federal member for Groom, Tom McVeigh.
McVeigh has been around forever; he has been a minister, and although his career has been less than stellar, it has not been gaffe or scandal prone in the manner of so many of his colleagues. And his seat is safe; the by-election will be a formality.
But the pre-selection that precedes it will not. McVeigh identifies as a Nat, but the two partners in the Queensland are already at war over the impending spoils. More divisions, more acrimony. And so, perhaps, more Labor in power.
As Morrison likes to say, it is all about outcomes. Governments that deliver usually get rewarded. And thankfully, idiot propagandists sometimes don’t."

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 11:33am

"The USA and Britain both destroyed their economies by locking down. It had nothing to do with death rates."

More toxic nonsense from the master of misinformation. Let's look at the reality.

US death rate 0.00063
UK death rate 0.00063
(yep they're the same)
Australian death rate 0.000035

So their death rate is 18 times ours. If we had pursued their policies we would have had approximately an extra 15,000 deaths.

To suggest that we should have followed their policies for a probably non-existent economic benefit is (the daily double again!) moronic and offensive.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 11:44am

It was the lockdowns which destroyed the US and British economies , not the deaths of some octogenarians.

Show evidence otherwise or take your toxic ideology elsewhere. Repeatedly asserting your lies does not make them true.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:19pm

Such a sensitive soul young Blowie, full of the milk of human kindness and the sort of generosity of spirit usually associated with sainthood......ha ha ha. What a miserable attitude, trade the lives of older Australians to help Blowie's investments. How's the day trading going mate? Still turning a dollar from the hard work of others are you? Watch out for that tech sector mate, keep the risk low there!

But back to the issue, care to provide some actual data to back this up...beyond the usual "I said it so it must be right.... or read pages 977-988 in the Blowipedia, it's all there."

"It was the lockdowns which destroyed the US and British economies...."

I mean if you're right they got the worst of both worlds, lots of deaths and a worse economic performance. I thought the little Aussie battler would be proud of our nation's achievement in keeping the death rate low and the economic damage less than most, but sadly not it seems.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:32pm

I don’t want anyone to die before their time but a better strategy is obviously to protect the vulnerable and allow the other 99 percent of society resume their lives . This goes beyond investments and the economy. You’ve only got one chance in this world and being under house arrest and separated from the people , places and passions you love is not how it’s to be lived.

As I’ve said repeatedly and you have yet to offer proof otherwise- the lockdowns destroyed the economy. Nothing more. If the virus is still out there it will resume its path until people realise that protecting the vulnerable is our only option.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/south-america/everything-is-uncertain-coron...

“Buenos Aires: Argentina's coronavirus infections has topped 700,000 with new daily infections and deaths among the top five globally, new data showed, despite seven months of quarantine that have ravaged the frail economy.”

Yes , the US and Britain got the worst of both worlds. That’s my point.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:36pm

"As I’ve said repeatedly and you have yet to offer proof otherwise-'

So now I have to disprove your assertions? No mate, you said it, you back it up. Let's see the economic stats from all three countries.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:42pm

Wow, blowin, you're making even less sense today than normal.
You do realise that employers have a legal obligation to provide safe workplaces? And you do realise that workers are going to refuse to return to workplaces where Covid 19 is spreading? And you do realise that confidence in the economy plummets as infection rates go up?
Your ability to ignore the freakin obvious, and your unwavering belief that everything will be just so super if governments just reopen the economy, is truly mind-blowing.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:43pm

Nope.

It was yourself and Vic Local who initially claimed that letting the virus rip would destroy the economy. I stated , truthfully enough, that this is rubbish as the vast majority of people are unaffected by the virus and the economy would continue to function.

Therefore it’s up to you to prove otherwise.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:53pm

More rubbish , Vic Stupid.

People die from influenza which is contracted in the workplace and this never contravenes health and safety regulations.

The economy would function and people will be unafraid to attend work if they paid heed to the science instead of the vested interests who promote fear to further their own ends.

This is the science :

CDC COVID-19 Survival Rates

Age 0-19 — 99.997%
Age 20-49 — 99.98%
Age 50-69 — 99.5%
Age 70+ — 94.6%”

It pays to think your replies through beforehand to see if they bear scrutiny, particularly if you’re going to act like a patronising twit when delivering them.

blowfly's picture
blowfly's picture
blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:49pm

"It was yourself and Vic Local who initially claimed that letting the virus rip would destroy the economy. "

No mate I didn't say that and I can't see it in any of Vic Local's posts either

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 12:57pm

So you agree that blanket lock downs of vast swathes of the population is a poor strategy and that it destroys the economy for no obvious advantage ?

And that protecting the vulnerable under voluntary circumstance whilst allowing the rest of society to go about their business is the best option whilst the virus is existent ?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 1:00pm

To be fair on blowin, I did insinuate that his let the virus rip attitude does have massive economic consequences.
The problem is he's too stupid to see them. Tell us blowin, what do you think happens to the economy when a health system melts down like in London and NYC? Do ya think that might have wider economic ramifications or are you happy to live in some RWNJ fantasy land where people don't give a shit about their health and will happily go back to work and get coughed on? It's pretty hard to fly planes when air hosties on $7 an hour refuse to show up to work.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

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Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 1:01pm

"So you agree that blanket lock downs of vast swathes of the population is a poor strategy and that it destroys the economy for no obvious advantage ?

And that protecting the vulnerable under voluntary circumstance whilst allowing the rest of society to go about their business is the best option whilst the virus is existent ?"
Binary idiocy at it's finest. Fuck it must be weird living in your consequence free world blowin.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 1:08pm

RWNJ ?

Okay...that’s your free pass rescinded. Your attempts to paint me as right wing were inappropriate, incorrect and boring last time around. Whether your inability to accept this stems from stupidity or obstinacy is of no interest.

You’re back on ignore.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 1:22pm

Usermick is 100% correct.
18 March Feds evoked Emergency Powers over all o/s interstate quarantine + now.
PM's secret War Cabinet & Star Chamber now have overarching say on Quarantine.
They're exempt from fronting girly Vic Quarantine Inquiry, don't you dare ask them!

Fed' S star Chamber Close / cap Airport numbers that dictate Hotel Quarantine.
PM's ABF board Planes for Health Checks & ADF secure Transit to & at Quarantine.
Total fed run Quarantine...No states needed only to tick PM's Rydges Hotel Chain.

Scomo set up interstate Rydges Hot Hotel Chain & promised ABF & ADF security.
(That is all inquiry had to inform...this has nothing to do with any state / territory).
tbb welcomes any state act that overrides Fed / US powers...(States are powerless).

Airline Industry & Media understood ADF security & Vic Govt supported this Plan.

27 March PM + ABC / SBS & all reported that (ABF / ADF will run Quarantine).
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-27/coronavirus-quarantine-laws-force...

27 March Dan agreed to PM's ADF Plan...
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/enforced-quarantine-returned-travellers-c...
Read his full release...All states agreed to PM's plan of ADF engagement...

Aviation also reported ADF will oversee Airport < > Hot Hotel Quarantine.
https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/03/passengers-must-now-isolate-in...

Accom News : ADF will be there...
https://www.accomnews.com.au/2020/03/hotel-quarantine-for-returning-auss...

Pause!
PM repeatedly claimed ADF are instrumental in Oz Hotel Quarantine...(All say Aye!)
Anyone here thinks Jenny outranks ABF/ADF > cbd Quarantine needs a brainwash!

Cont...
Day 1 - PM's promised ADF failed to defend Oz...yet another massive lie & fail.
Linda's ever-ready crack troops where nowhere to be found at any Oz Airport
The Airport Quarantine failure began on day one at all Oz Airports ...(Blame PM)
tbb earlier reported that PM's fail led to 33 breaches on day one spreading virus.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/they-haven-t-listened-medical-profes...

ADF arrived days late to Syd >Bne Airports-Hotels but never fronted Mbne Airport.
Media / Inquiry never asked why PM lied & failed to secure OZ-Vic Quarantine link.
As promised by PM in Media Release & Parliament Address & Govt/Industry.

29 March (Age) Jenny: "Vic Police will enforce the quarantine, supported by ADF."
All now know ADF never found Melbourne Airport & only skirted the Vic Hotels.
The Age reported ADF at The Crown + SBS state ADF secure Mbne hotels.

Rydges were the Hot Hotel chain responsible for several breaches in each city.
tbb claims only PM could set up a Hot Hotel Chain ready to deploy #1 on Day One.
Hard to believe QLD (vs) NSW (vs) Vic (All said hey let's book Rydges...Cool!) WTF.
Wake up Australia...It's another Lib Rort > States were fed the PM's Hotel Menu!
That's why The Star chamber don't keep records, likely a donor as with Covid apps.

Scomo's personal contribution to Vic Covid -19 Crisis

* Fails to check, test or secure o/s arrivals but insist they must infect the Vic Capital.
* Fails to secure arrival or departure of viral o/s guests to his mate's cbd Hot Hotels.
* On day 2 the PM redeployed ADF from Mbne Hot Hotels to the smash Housos.
* Scomo's Hot Hotel patients that still had corona on day 15 were released in cbd's.
Note: Their is no onus on securing or contact tracing Scomo's Day 15 known virals.
* PM's Rydges Manager not improperly fucks Guest spreading 90% of covid > Vic.
Note: Inquiry refers to Boss as Staff...implying Vic Govt hired cause of outbreak.
* PM's ADF also fuck Sydney Hot Hotel Guest to spread the cheer.
* Scomo's - ABF outbreak spread Covid-19 thru Melbourne Airport...(Still No ADF)
* Scomo diverts Melbourne o/s flights but fails to send ADF to secure arrangements
* Scomo Pleaded with Dan to request ADF to mop up his WR Agedcaredemic
* Scomo's NSW girlfriend wants ADF to secure Vic Border, sure thing honey bunch!
* Qld Anna's Police requests similar ADF border security. (PM..."Get Fucked Bitch!")

PM promised all to secure Victoria's o/s entry point into Melbourne... He never did!
All premiers agreed to the ADF deal but only Qld & NSW got ADF albeit late.
Sure argue about Scomo's Hot Hotel Chain all yer like but he failed the entry exam.

Apparently Jenny now decides which o/s Pandemic runs amuck on our shore!
tbb apologizes to Sisters for our pathetic weak cowardly He Man Bully PM.

PM failed to deliver at his own Emergency test of responsibility.
Secure the virus at Vic entry point & keep it from City Centre (Duh! Oops!)
PM : " I thought you said no ADF at airport & send unsecured virus into the City !"
He also owes Victoria an apology for deserting them in a crisis (Again!)

Inquiry repeatedly omits reported examples of higher authority breaches?
You need a puke bucket to read inquiry's myopic timeline...it's a sick joke!

Automatically excuses promised Fed security that weakened Quarantine?
Airport ADF > Pick up > Drop off is an obvious place to begin! (Wot!)...durr!
Like, so how did that go again people, wasn't that the backpacker bus or some shit!

tbb is not excusing Vic Government's secondary role but they were short changed.
This is the PM's hot mess from start to finish...he alone set it up & walked out on it.

blowfly's picture
blowfly's picture
blowfly commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 1:29pm

"So you agree that blanket lock downs of vast swathes of the population is a poor strategy and that it destroys the economy for no obvious advantage ?"

I don't have any strong views on the economic consequences at all, but I wouldn't agree with that statement as reducing the death rate is an obvious advantage. I would also make the observation that the countries who managed to get effective lockdowns in place early seem to have come out ahead economically too.

billythekid's picture
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billythekid commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 2:54pm

If you take the emotion out of it, there's no way hundreds of thousands of young people's current and future prosperity is worth giving some over 70s or even over 60s a few more years to live

If it was then people would be willing to make this exchange right now. They would say, "hey homeless old codger, im gonna sell my family house and move to a shitter
one so I can buy you a flat and prolong your life beyond the expected lifespan you'll get if you continued living on the street."

GET REAL NO ONE WOULD DO THAT!!!

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 2:58pm

Day 1
Scomo deployed 30 ADF to secure Sydney Airport > Quarantine.
Scomo deployed 60 ADF techies to digitize NSW Contract Tracing.
If Dan put out like NSW Premier...he might just score some ADF.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10933588-3x2-940x627.jpg

PM also ensured only NSW can bill other states for Quarantine.
That's right! NSW *****VIP service was bankrupting Vic's security.

#2 Vic were hosting All + NSW Quarantine cases (Free of Charge)
PM promised ADF would secure Vic Airport < > Quarantine.(He lied!)
Instead his ABF contaminated it with virus.

PM: "Coz it's different for each state"...Sucked in Vic losers!
None expected vacuous Inquiry to brush the surface or break dirt.

Vic could have charged money for Quarantine but kept it legal.

Qldurrz salute Vic for not illegally profiteering from Pandemic.(Rare!)
We also thank them for freely caring for Qldurrz...at their expense.
They could use that money on Quarantine more than the rest of us.
Instead chose to care for Oz brothers while fighting for their lives.

Exactly! The inquiry could have led with a Humanitarian Award.
In fact Qld have just nominated Vic for universal level Quarantine.
tbb is just exampling how introspective & biased this inquiry is.

Qld may have a hard border but we're not blind to Pandemic.
We view Vic Govt as more honest than most during Pandemic.
Nothing changes that! Qld has yer back Vic! Cheers!

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 7:05pm

Dan the reluctant new Poster Boy for COVIDSafe app. (Really!)
Premier says the app is as good as sewage testing! (Finally a compliment?)
Says it didn't help during lockdown but is fine for Trains. (He downloaded it!)
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6195122493001

PM's Gold Standard NSW team to copy Vic Contract Tracing?
https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/nsw-denies-it-is-copying...

So, tbb ...wotz all this about...is there a 2nd wave of COVIDSafe app interest?
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/491794?page=12

Recall the PM spruiking NSW Contact Tracing...set up by his 60 ADF tech heads.
US Salesforce is the new (interstate) Contact Tracing app linking AWS COVIDSafe
Vic has an upgrade Pack with add on kit & NSW are likely to plug those in too.
https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/covid-safe-check-customers-faqs

US Salesforce run Contact tracing for ....Vic/NSW/WA/SA/NZ/UK/US
ACT use CBR google/Apple
Qld have committed to link to Covid Safe App & Nationally but via Bne firm (Bdna)
https://bdna.com.au/
https://www.hpw.qld.gov.au/about/strategy/buy-qld/engage/buy-queensland-...

Occasional push of COVIDSafe app in event settings.
National Cabinet agenda is to link more Aussies to mygov app.
Both AWS COVIDSafe + ServiceNSW apps link with mygov app

Mr Nobody's picture
Mr Nobody's picture
Mr Nobody commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 7:45pm

Hey Billy,

You raise an interesting philosophical and moral point and you’re not the first. I am no longer a young person and so I am not sure if I would feel the same way. Perhaps I would.

Anyway, some things to consider.

1. “Old” people just don’t wander off to die like they may have done in older civilizations. They have to go somewhere. That place is usually a hospital where there are finite number of beds available for sick people.
2. “Old” people have actually been around a while and paid a lifetime of taxes which has contributed to the society you live in. Young people, while a fantastic part of our future, have generally contributed considerably less. Perhaps that means the younger people have something to thank the older people for.
3. Perhaps more important than who gets sick and dies, is one of the main messages through this whole mess. Protecting the health system. Health workers dealing with increased numbers of sick people means they are getting a much higher viral load than your average young surfer lucky enough to live down the coast. This means they are more likely to suffer greater effects of the virus. What happens if the health workers start being unable to work? Perhaps you will need one of them to look after you one day?

I get it. It’s a shit show. I don’t have the answers. I wish it would go away too. But, people around the world throughout the ages have been given a much worse hand than this. It’s a pain, but you have to tough it out. Like a tough person.

Having said that, I hope you’re doing OK.

All the best.

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 29 Sep 2020 at 7:46pm

Viclocal - “ And you do realise that workers are going to refuse to return to workplaces where Covid 19 is spreading? ”

Nonsense, every single person I know that hasn’t been allowed to work is absolutely fucking HANGING to get back to work asap.
You think people are loving living on $750 a week? Even less now I think.

Come on mate that’s bullshit