Submitted by Supafreak on Sun, 08/02/2020 - 15:15
Just watched the press release from Dan Andrews and I really feel for how victorians are going to once again pay for others stupidity. Not sure how they are going to police the 1 hour exercise policy but a trip down the coast for a surf could be costly. I understand these new restrictions are mainly Melbourne suburbs and I’m very grateful for where I live NSW Qld border. When we were in shutdown there was no time limit for our exercise thank god as a 3 hour surf kept me sane after losing my job.
The Prince of Wales??
As someone said, St Kilda has some great spots/venues, the foreshore/beach area is not one of them. Genuine shithole due to that types that frequent it
It seems like when surfers hit 40 they become mindless rule followers and fill their spare time making judgements. Welcome to living in fear
You live in lockdown Melbourne Billy?
It seems like when surfers hit 40 they become mindless rule followers and fill their spare time making judgements.
No billy, by the time surfers are 40 most are old enough to respect others and not be complete arseholes.
Oh and fuck yeah I will judge you and your "let the virus rip" attitude.
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
GS I live Barwon heads - don’t see what that’s got to do with anything
Billy, So you have been able to surf all year without interruption or usual crowds, have coffee in Hitchcock Street whenever you want and otherwise live a normal life and you have the fucking gall to comment here about how Covid is being managed in greater Melbourne.
Paul Kelly: "I give you all of Sydney Harbour, all that land and all that water, for that one sweet promenade."
Me: "I'll take the other side of that trade."
GS we had a certain number. The number went up and we went into lockdown. Then the number came down to the number that sent us into lockdown in the first place. But this time that number was deemed to be low enough to come out of lockdown. Then the number went up and we went to lockdown for the second time. Now when the number comes down for the second time (to around the same number as sent us into lockdown the first time) we will come out of lockdown again. It doesn't make sense.
"It doesn't make sense".
If you didn't have shit for brains billythekid, and listened to the medical experts, it would make sense.
Chadstone outbreak has jumped out into regional Vic with two confirmed cases, a request for symptomatic people to get tested, and testing all the way up in Benalla.
"... Cafe confirmed a staff member had tested positive after being exposed to a customer with COVID-19.
Cafe owner ... said she had made the decision to close her business until further notice, with all staff in quarantine after the "devastating" news.
"Please stay safe everyone, we are a small community that this could spread very quickly. If unsure stay home, get tested, I can't stress it enough."
On Monday, ... expressed her frustration that her employees and other customers had been put at risk.
"We've worked so hard to keep our business open and following all the guidelines through the whole pandemic, to say I'm upset this has happened when it shouldn't is an understatement," she said."
Can see this being the justification for regional borders to stay closed for the foreseeable future
The person who traveled to the cafe and beyond had a work permit in this case. Dining in a cafe isn't part of the permit though.
So even after bathing ourselves in hand sanitiser since March this year....having more than half a year of 'social distancing' drilled into us....everyone wearing masks since what seems like months ago (and probably for months to come)......surprise surprise, we still have outbreaks.
I continually am dumbfounded that we're still in heavy lockdown....and that there's now murmurs of possible delays in hitting the next step, extended 'ring of steel' around Melbourne and extensions in the 5km rule.
Like a prisoner who knows they're in for the long haul (I think), I have made some form of peace with this shitty situation. But F***k me....every time I stop and think about it I just see it as an absolute shit show.
We've set ourselves up to target pretty much the impossible to hit these steps out of the road map....but what's even more sickening is that the rest of Aus ticks along mostly unharmed. Even bloody NSW managed to get to zero transmission and state borders are opening! And they had sweet FA of a lockdown in comparison. Talking to my colleagues in Sydney, they're happily having beers on a Friday and escaping the great outdoors on the weekends. Covid to them is still an annoyance which screws up wedding plans and their regular overseas jaunts only....nothing compared to what's going on here.
Why does god/Allah/Buddha/Shiva/whoever hate Melbourne so much!
Well....at least the wave pool may be opening soon....
Given that the survivability rate for Covid-1984 is around 99.7 % and that most deaths are of the elderly in the last years of life,exascerbated by co- morbidities,we need to realise that these totalitarian style lockdowns,unlawful curfews are about political control and training the populace to be compliant to draconian authority .The cost of lockdowns will be much higher than any virus.
Average life expectancy in Australia : 82
Average age of death from Wuflu : 84.8
Deaths registered in Victoria per month (all causes )
July 2019 : 4102
July 2020 : 3561
August 2019 : 3892
August 2020 : 3691
A 'pandemic ' that kills less people.We're being played.
This is the way I feel about this Bs going on its not all its cracked up to be , stop watching the media and start doing your own research people its not anywhere near as bad as its portrayed, the only way to get it going away is to build tolerance not fear and with 1% chance of dying if you catch it thats even if you catch it its safe to say there is way more dangers out there. I abide by all the rules and restrictions and have not been heavily impacted financially or mentally i just feel for those who have, and don't believe its right the Bs we are getting fed.
If you going tp take that type of view, id say it's more about politics and keeping power.
Imagine if any state leader or the PM of any country, said sorry we have reevaluated everything and are going to take a different approach, like protect the old and vulnerable but go back to normal life for everyone else.
It would now be political suicide, the other party and even media would focus heavily on the deaths and any negatives and any positives would be ignored.
But if a vaccine doesn't come through in the next year, realistically how long can we go on living like this?
If we never get a proper vaccine can we continue like this forever?
Horas - on the deaths numbers, agree it's an incredible effort for death numbers (all causes) to be lower than they were last year, in the middle of the worst health pandemic in 100 years.... seems a bit odd doesn't it. I get that some lives have been protected from dying due to all the lockdown/distancing rules, so deaths that 'may' have occured otherwise haven't eg regular flu deaths. But people die, it's part of life. We've now protected as much as we can, I'm not saying we shouldn't have locked down. But we gotta start living again on October 19. No more 'just a few more weeks' crap.
Right now though, all the fear is on the daily case numbers. We had 15 yesterday and it was like we had 1000 the way it was reported. That is peak fear in society now and those in charge of this thing, and the media, are playing to it.
How about the fact there is barely any positive reporting that we now have 21 people in hospital only. 21. In a state of 6 million. Are we trying to prevent death or are we trying to prevent people feeling a bit sick for a while? There is no risk of hospitals being overloaded now, but I guess we gotta keep that fear going with case numbers only don't we.
So I went to Coles the other day to pick up some aluminium foil for my garlic bread but they were all out. Looks like a few of the new Swellnut commentators re Covid 19 live in Torquay, and they have stripped the shelves for their hats.
6 cases today, Listen to the experts people. Their strategy is working. Don't fuck it up now because you "did your own research".
VL - regarding the strategy working, yes lockdown has worked so far in terms of crushing cases down. Easy part done, just shut everything. Their strategy now needs to look at opening up.
VL, how far do we take it in your view? Do we go for eradication as Sutton & Andrews are going for, but just not outwardly saying? We can all see the roadmap and 14 cases of zero before the final step is reached. That's eradication. Add to the fact their covid normal step is 28 days of zero. That's eradication. And how long would we tolerate staying in level 2 or 3 whatever it's called before we give up on eradication?
Dx3. Not sure that I agree with you re Andrews and Sutton going for eradication. There's no such thing unless Australia has zero international migration and nobody is suggesting that.
Eradication or the track and trace option still relies on Victorians / Australians to act with commonsense and a sense of social responsibility. Either strategy won't work if the Qanon / Pete Evens muppets get their way.
Reopening too early, and punters fucking things up, has such severe consequences. Nobody, (except for that nutter billythekid) wants that.
The only thing Andrews is trying to eradicate is dissent.
The experts say that the virus is a big nothing burger. Only those who repeat the tabloid headlines as their “ expert medical advice “ are still parroting the FEAR propaganda.
The CDC states that only a tiny , tiny , tiny handful of unfortunate elderly people who are already in precarious states of unhealthiness will succumb .
People whose mindset has not moved beyond the March 2020 stage should be persecuted for perpetuating the falsehoods from that era. The modelling which predicted a repeat of the Spanish Flu have been completely debunked. Predictions of millions of deaths have been debunked. The thinking that society is best served by shutting down has been shown to be utterly false and does nothing beyond postpone the inevitable.
Had to chuckle at this article this morning:
"People are scared we will be locked down again."
"Coronavirus spread highlights fragility of being COVID-free, Mayor says"
"I don't understand how someone from Melbourne can think it's OK to dine in a cafe."
'There's a case to close Melbourne off entirely from regional Victoria'
The lockdowns are the worry.
This just shows how f**ked we are, how our plans are so messed between eradication and suppression. Dx3 you hit the nail on the head - there's no understanding of scale - one case is being treated like 1000 deaths. People are over simplifying the initial estimations of exponential growth and painting their own doomsday scenarios.
"People are over simplifying the initial estimations of exponential growth and painting their own doomsday scenarios."
Did you just miss the last three months in Victoria stok? Nearly 1000 deaths despite a hard lockdown. Do tell us what would happen if we took the light touch approach.
Here's the problem folks. The anti-lockdown fuckwits like to pretend their option has no consequences. Has the shit show in Europe and the USA taught you people nothing?
The extent to which this virus has been overblown is hard to overestimate.
COVID deaths are akin to drowning deaths in that millions of people may enter the oceans but only a tiny percentage of people drown. No one suggests preventing people from entering the water and broader society should not shut down to protect a tiny , tiny , tiny percentage of people who might be vulnerable to the virus.
If you can’t swim , don’t enter the water. If you feel vulnerable to COVID then you should take steps to prevent exposure . There is zero justification for shutting down society.
The actions of Dictator Dan are a particular brand of obnoxious overreach based on no science at all. Time will reveal the criminality of his arbitrary behaviour.
"The actions of Dictator Dan are a particular brand of obnoxious overreach based on no science at all. Time will reveal the criminality of his arbitrary behaviour."
Loosen the tin foil hat dude.
Criminalise fear mongering !
Screen shot from April .
I think Australia due to it's severe restrictions (VIC) and now near zero case numbers a day, is in a really good spot in being able to now sit & see how Europe manages the winter and big rise again in cases. Europe will have huge case numbers for the next 6 months, I can't see how they won't. They are already getting more cases than wave 1 in places like UK/Spain/France, but not more deaths. Sure they are putting some restrictions in but unless they go hard it won't do much.
So, if Europe can get through the next 6 months without the higher number of deaths we saw in March/April, then that's what we need to look at. Deaths. Not cases numbers. After all, this is about protecting life isn't it? Right now if you look at the deaths numbers, they are managing well, but too early to make any key takeaways from it. Sure not everyone who gets it will survive, but that's been the case with any type of illness ever, not everyone survives if they get sick. That doesn't mean we shut down the world. As for a vaccine, sure it might help a bit, but it won't get rid of it.
Tin foil ?
You’re the one parroting conspiracy theories.
You keep harping on about the dire situation in the USA. Despite the CDC openly stating that COVID alone is responsible for only 6 percent of all published COVID deaths , even the doctored statistics claim that chance of death is 654 per 1.000.000 . Average age of COVID death is older than average life expectancy ! Chance of death for anyone healthy is infinitesimal.
Science has proven beyond doubt the virus is overblown. You are wedded to an antiquated and disproven ideology that the virus will destroy humanity and kill healthy people indiscriminately .
You are living in a media driven bubble which perpetuates the politically driven FEAR campaign. Your opinion is worthless .
VL I'm not anti lockdown, I know there's a fine balance between too much and too little - and either way we're screwed.
I've always just hated the mixed messaging mixed with public misunderstanding and media fear mongering. First it was flattening of the curve to stop health system overload and people dying in hospital corridors. Now it's the supress or we're all going to have lifelong heart, lung and neural problems.
Don't get me wrong, I feel lucky to be in Australia right now....just less so in Melbourne.
My analogy for this Covid is here to stay and vaccines won't stop it instantly. We're talking years before we can comfortably say we've beaten it. If we keep this level of fear, we're going to destroy so much of what made life worth living.
It doesn't help how polarised the discussion get about this stuff.....it's not all about far right/far left politics. Just because Trump said don't let Covid own you doesn't mean you're a trump supporter for being open to reaching a level of acceptance for where we're at as a world. Equally, just because you support mask wearing doesn't mean you're a Antifa leftie who wants to see capitalism burn.
Lifelong heart , lung and neurological problems.....lol. Where is the evidence for this ? Nothing but more fear mongering.
The shifting goalposts of the media / political narrative tell you all you need to know. Flatten the curve becomes suppression becomes eradication . Imminent death to all becomes lifelong symptoms. Death rates become rates of infection . The goalposts get moved as the population realised that the previous narrative was pure bullshit.
Fact : The vast majority of humans will experience either no symptoms or only minor illness.
Fact : Many , many people , probably most people , will never be infected even if life returns to complete open normality.
Fact : This virus has been opportunistically transformed into a politicised vehicle for exploitation by anyone smart enough to take advantage. They will not relinquish this opportunity willingly or easily.
This all may be true Blowin and it's important to hear the view.
But I'm surprised you are clambering for re-opening the Population Ponzi and the mad economic system you criticised in the past. We are in the great position that with closed borders we can keep kicking the developers etc in the nuts.
Blowin, care to share your experience and qualifications in medicine, public health or epidemiology or are you just an internet trained loudmouth fuckgibbon?
Adam 12, I think blowin did his own resurch on You tube. It's where all the clued up academics go to release their findings. Old mate certainly isn't a sheeple.
Haha. Fuckgibbon! I like it, Adam. Must remember it next time the member for Hunter blurts out some Right old rubbish.
What would the Mayo Clinic know anyway VJ? Nothing more than a pack of egg head, ivory tower squatting, nobodies who no nothink. Do your own resurch and don't be a sheeple. blowin is on to sumpthink.
Good article VJ, but I guess just plays into the fear of case numbers that will keep the world from functioning anywhere near where it used to. For how long nobody knows.
There's gotta be some personal responsibility in all this too, I've said a few times I ain't pining to get back to busy pubs and bars restaurants, I'll go if I can keep my distance otherwise for now, no thanks. I just want to be able to create some life experiences with my kids that doesn't involve going to a park in my 5km radius. I'm lucky enough they are young enough to still get a kick out of that, I feel very sorry for those older kids with nothing to do - hell even the skate parks near me are still filled with dirt and huge concrete boulders blocking their use.
Whatever comes on Oct 19, there needs to be a significant lifting of restrictions for outdoor activities. For all our sanity, that is if mental health is still of any concern to anyone...
You are aware that there’s no scientific consensus in support for the actions taken by government to combat the virus ? Or that there is no medical consensus as to the true overall severity of the virus on humanity ?
You do realise that many medical experts contradict the MSM campaign of unrelenting FEAR ?
Your stance is an opinion. That is all. Which would be fine if you weren’t determined to obligate the entirety of society to cater to your arbitrary opinion.
VJ.....of course I’m stoked on the mass immigration hiatus . But we should be capable of enforcing such a net beneficial hiatus form the Ponzi without the duress of these farcical COVID restrictions.
Look folks - it could be worse. You could be a cunt of the highest order connected to the Amalfi Beach Club and suggest this idea:
Those poor souls who current take their annual trips to enjoy the European summer. Pray for them.
VJ...Re your link. I’m not proposing that no one would potentially experience long term symptoms. I’m proposing that virtually any disease is capable of long term damage to humans . Even the bog standard Influenza can kill and potentially cause long term heat effects .....this does not create mass societal unrest .
Even Bali Belly can cause severe long term effects . Does this condone public fear mongering ?
The key is to put into perspective the scale of the threat. That’s what seems to be missing from the tin foil hat FEAR mongering out there. The likelihood of severe and extended side effects are infinitesimal.
The virus exists and can be bad news ....but in the vast , vast , vast majority of instances it is FUCK ALL.
The tin foil hat brigade want to reduce COVID to a stupid binary of :
1/ There is a virus which will either kill us all or disable us all for life unless we hide till it’s eradicated through natural exclusion or a MIRACLE vaccine eradicates it synthetically.
2/ The virus doesn’t exist.
The truth is in the middle. The virus exists , it can be bad but in most cases , the far majority of cases , the virus is just another transient illness at worst. Certainly nothing worth shuttering the nation over. We can live with it. All of us need to accept it and get on with our lives . If you think you are vulnerable take responsibility for yourself as you see fit.
It seems a simple enough equation.
Victoria + Covid 19 + MBB* + SUS** = BBB***
*Macro Business Bollocks
**Severe Ultracrepidarian Syndrome
***Blowie Beer Bingo
Yeah , if if could forget about the irrelevant personal attacks it’d be good.
If you want to sort stuff out like a man then forward your address to Stu and I can catch up with you in person when the opportunity arises. Till then it’s probably best if you just keep that stuff to yourself.
I don’t want to interact with you on Swellnet. Get it ? People like you - those who attack anything I say irrespective of content- destroy the possibility of my enjoying my time here.
Ben .....zero chance of me resubscribing whilst I can’t comment without the unrelenting stalking going on .
Whatever you think of his previous posts or views on other matters, it's hard to argue with anything Blowin just said at 1:20pm.
Dx3. There's two obvious things blowin has completely ignored.
Even if the virus only impacts a small percentage of people who get it, the fact millions of people are getting it, means there's still a shit load of people getting seriously sick and / or dying.
And it's this comment that really grates with me: "If you think you are vulnerable take responsibility for yourself as you see fit."
It's selfish in the extreme. It's clear blowin doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone else but himself. Young and fit people can be infected and not even know it. They can also pass it on to vulnerable people unknowingly. In blowin's world the young fit people have absolutely no responsibility for the health of others, and that includes emergency services professionals, family members, etc. What a cunt.
I’m a carer for a vulnerable elderly person. My relatives are vulnerable and elderly. My brother has Parkinson’s and is vulnerable. It’s my responsibility to protect them by taking precautions not to get infected . This is possible without shuttering the whole nation.
It’s unbelievably selfish to expect the 99.98 percent of people to which the virus is not an issue to forfeit their lives to protect the tiny few who can just isolate themselves. As with the swimming analogy - you don’t force everyone to stop swimming to protect those who can’t swim. It’s up to those who can’t swim to stay out of the water or do so under proper conditions.
You can keep your insults to yourself too, Vic Local. As with Facto you can send your address to Stu and I may co e down and you can then insult me in person. If you wouldn’t say it to my face don’t say it on here.
That's the plan Blowin. The responsibility and balance can be done, but risk cannot be completely eliminated. In a situation of widespread infection, medical staff will inevitably be exposed outside of work, and as such places like cancer wards will also become exposure points. Many patients have compromised immune systems. I would LOVE to pack it in and head to a temperate island and live in a hut for the next 2 years. (Part of the reason is just to listen to the wind). But I can't do this.
Fear is a good one to discuss. We've probably all seen the acronym False Evidence Appearing Real. One component of fear is that it exists in the mind, and concerns a future event that may or may not occur. Sharks are a classic example. Fears can be stoked through imagery, happenstance, or media. We approach actual likelihoods by estimating the probability of a good/bad result - eg crossing a busy road. In our spare time, imagery or experience can create fear of this event, which will occur again in the future. Fear can be intellectual, like knowing your business was over-leveraged just prior to corona. Fears and anxieties build up in people and can lead to other health complications. Mass fear through indoctrination could injure societies into permissive behaviour - was this Edward Bernays?
Mass media reports of fear sell. Sharks. Physically beautiful women running road blocks. We've seen it all in Vic. We've seen really shitty imagery too, like pregnant women not wearing masks and being confronted by police. And Karen.
When I talk to other regional people, the overwhelming response is to get this over with, get it done, and move on. Getting it done means the transmission being very low. Behaviour against guidelines/rules is regarded poorly as it means longer times before things are done. If you look at how Kilmore has responded to the infections, they are on top of it within a few days, all traced, many tests, business owner was very responsible too.
Credit to crew here, they have different views and have had a discourse. Well done to Stok and Dx3 for the ongoing discussion given what Melbourne is going through. I can relate to the bit about being weary of pubs, I think I will be similar for a while after this. Logically, there is no reason to be so, with a very small likelihood of any infection, of a virus that may or may not do much to me. It could be fear or it could be sensitised calculation of risk. In the years prior my condition led me to isolate more, as flus would really knock me around - so this is an extension of that in some respects.
I was a bit wary of linking Mayo clinic tbh - truth is where you get the link to post it from...
Next, let's do the other internet corona conspiracy. If the virus really was modified in a level 4 bioweapons lab, then would you want it anywhere near you? I have no idea if it was or if it wasn't, but I'm pretty sure eating a bat didn't do this.
Lastly, Australia is in a pretty good position. Case numbers are very low (and media fascination over a score of cases is much larger). We are very close to the points the epidemiologists designed on the Vic roadmap out. NSW seems to be able to contact trace cases really well, and people there can live their lives somewhat normally. The rest of the country doesn't have it - or it's stigma. If it's real, Vic gets a way out. If it's not real, Vic gets a way out.
VJ....with regards to the example you gave . Why can’t we just isolate health care workers ? Why can’t we be specific with the restrictions ? Why is it considered acceptable to expect the entire population to endure restrictions but not just the tiny minority who truly need to be restricted ?
The shuttering of the nation solves nothing. There is no official plan forward . No strategy beyond lifting the existing restrictions. Then what ?
The medical experts have put nothing forward because they don’t know. All we know is that lockdowns are neither effective nor feasible beyond immediate control of the virus . There is a reckoning ahead and the sooner its faced the better it will be for the world.
The current strategy is procrastination. It’s pointless and destructive. The only people benefitting are those who perpetrate it within the media / politics and those on government largess.
Many health care workers have kids, and spouses. What happens to them? The web of community interaction is wide and interlinked.
I think they do have a plan, 'suppression' they call it. Increased opening up in Vic, are you guys still locked down in NSW? Regional NSW? When outbreaks occur, contact tracing goes in and they try to catch up with it and suppress it.
Being in Vic it's hard to see what life is like in say, NT or QLD - I know WA is "business as usual" locally. Regionally, we have already opened up more, businesses are go, school holidays restaurants were very busy, caravan park was busy, the cashflows were flowing.