It seems that discussions about racism get tangled up in various threads on this forum, so it would be more practical to have one thread dedicated to this complex, contentious issue.
Wow Indo. Not reading Dark Emu, but reading a critique of the book to provide arguing points is conservative anti-intellectualism writ large.
That's showing absolutely no interest in something that may challenge your thinking.
Indo is probably right, I don't read Murdoch papers but I think I have a pretty good idea what they say. Like today, haven't read any of them but I bet there is plenty about woke, virtue signalling lefties trying to rip down statutes of our esteemed English forebears, how corrupt Dan Andrews and the Labor party are with their branch stacking and how Albo has been wounded politically by it all, a bit of patronizing opinion on the plight of Indigenous Australians with expert comments from Warren Mundine, a bit more on how violent radical left marxist Antifa BLM protesters are attempting to oust that stable genius in America. Nothing about Rio Tinto blowing up the common heritage of mankind for profit or LNP ministers stealing taxpayer dollars or the illegitimate election we recently had, the sports rorts cover-up, Stuart Roberts lies, grifting and incompetence, or who the Cayman Island beneficiaries of the $80 million Angus Taylor water rort are. Probably a positive piece on John Howards new role for Rugby Australia will be there, what a great job Scotty and Josh are doing with 'snap-back', a profile piece on some right- wing warrior, plus a pretentious cross-word and a bit of sport.
Oh, and I forgot about the ABC, yes I'm sure there is something about how the ABC is dominated by leftie extremist opinion and how they never present "both sides", and how they shouldn't be encroaching on platforms that should belong to the Murdochs.
You read it Indo, how did I do?
Someone get the smelling salts ....
Good on you , Indo.
I haven’t read it either. Go in with an open mind and get back to us if you don’t mind. Cheers.
Much better Indo, ie giving the book a crack, once finish reading I'm going to research into the journals and logs myself.
When I lived in Portland in Vic I read Henty's journals. Well, what was available at the library I don't know if it was complete. He talked about at least one stone hut settlement, I remember that (20 or more years ago I read them)
The other thing that stood out was the amount of whales in the harbour. Every day during the season, from one to half a dozen. Teams of whalers, working for different firms, used to rush out to be the first to spear one for their whaling company. Lookouts would sit on the hill and light signal fires. Of course the whaling industry was short lived, they plowed through them pretty quickly.
Indo, in response to your comment on Tues morn:
You may say the point of that article is that there problems are being ignored by the media. I don't think they are being ignored at all, I've read multiple stories on these issues over the years and I don't particularly go out of my way to read stories about indigenous issues.
For The Australian and their bed fellows to claim that the 'left wing' media is ignoring these issues fits neatly and squarely with the narrative they like to push, but it's just not true.
I don't dispute any of the stats or issues presented in the article you posted aside from the pointless partisan sledging.
Patrick, If you've got an issue with my comment, show me what you've got a problem with and I'm more than happy to get stuck into it. Don't go calling me a coward though. Perhaps you could tell me why you think that article needed 5 or 6 partisan sledges in it? Were they pivotal to the issues raised? Are these dire challenges facing indigenous people?
Honestly not that great, you can't pigeon hole all murdoch press into one hole, it's so varied aimed at different audiences.
Yeah Sky news you will get that to the extreme that's all they do, honestly i cant watch it most of the time, only watch something if it really interest me, or i want another angle to find out what the ABC or SBS etc aren't telling me.
Then you get those other ones that are more local but with same stories Daily Telegraph style i think, i don't read them i think they are almost always paywalled, but i think they are possibly like that?...not sure..
The Australian you get it sometimes but i only read odd articles because it only lets you read a few articles free a week, yeah okay its slightly right wing but its still pretty reliable.
Hearld Sun, yeah okay its a bit dumbed down for the everyday person, but it's views are super varied, it's the only paper/news outlet I've found where you find completely different opinions often almost right next to each other.
If an article or topic interest me i will read ABC, SBS and even the Guardian, sometimes i just want to know their take on it, just cant read the comments though, makes me too angry.
Funny thing is they have something saying they are independent free from bias, ha ha yeah right, they are still bias id put them equal to the Australian as bias.
I also sometimes listen to RRR public radio OMG thats like left wing Sky News
That's a great informative post. Really highlights what I think is an issue that transcends racial issues in Australia - and that's the dysfunction of the overly punitive prison system we have. The absolute obsession with punishment and almost total neglect of rehabilitation is just atrocious.
Private prisons have got to be one of the absolute worst aspects of the particular flavour of capitalism we've got.
It was your dismissal of the article without addressing any of the points, it seemed like a flippant comment because you were too scared to look at tough issues and instead gloss over them as though 'if that paper reports it it mustn't be true'.
These things are happening now they are more important than changing dates and making hashtags go viral.
I saw your post as someone who was actively deciding not to listen to people who are from these communities, because they didn't fit into your perceived view of what political persuasion a person should fall into based on their culture or skin colour.
Yes, the paper had partisan sledges. The issues of violence within communities, is more important than whether someone from the right or left reports it.
Racism is obviously a very serious issue. Pretty sure we all acknowledge that. I also think it’s very important in these various threads on SN to acknowledge the lighter side of life, to have a laugh when it’s appropriate, if possible. Taking life too seriously all of the time is not healthy IMO. So apologies to Patrick & Courtney in advance, who appear to believe that things should be strictly business 24/7.. Thanks GS & Adam12 for the laugh & keep it up DC. Laughing is good medicine. Give it a try....
In a nutshell I thought you were trivialising the issues raised and I got pissed off but I see you've posted a different response above to Indo.
Great Aussie viewing.
"So apologies to Patrick & Courtney in advance, who appear to believe that things should be strictly business 24/7.. Thanks GS & Adam12 for the laugh & keep it up DC. Laughing is good medicine. Give it a try...."
We've had plenty of laughter on these forums Rabbits. Sometimes we like to have productive discussions without threads being derailed by trolling though.
"Taking life too seriously all of the time is not healthy IMO."
Too right cobber.
Fair enough Patrick. I know comedy is personal, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure & all. Take care mate...
The level of abuse and moral high ground taking on swellnet has now reached epidemic proportions. Stu, as editor, surely you can see this shit has to stop. These forums are now an embarrassment to swellnet as a surfing website. FFS exercise a little editorial discretion.
Soooooo ... international flights will not be resuming until 2021 at the very earliest. Now that’s a huge commitment from the seasoned defender, what a preseason he’s committed himself to.
What’s this Guy ?
Robust discussions, no need to call in 'the man' now!
Oi Swellnetonians, should I post my meme about 'bad faith' actors again??
YOU ARE THE WILFULLY IGNORANT POSTER KAREN...FOR YEARS!
Give it up. Try reconciling the Melvins, say, and your dumb-arse Right politix, numbnuts.
I'm sure you'll give it a go just like John Howard with Bob Dylan.
Well, sometimes they're not so robust.
Is that true Guy?
I'm booked (for the third time) late August. I'm desperate to see my family.
This Corona thing is fucked! Yesterday my wife and I were made to wear face masks and plastic gloves to go to the salad bar. I thought it's getting beyond the ridiculous. Got a pic to prove it.
I like your memes Dale.
You should give the cat and the hysterical lady another run. Love those.
Zen it’s what Morrison and his ministers are saying atm
As you can appreciate Guy I'm a bit mixed up.
This whole Corona business is doing my head in.
Where's the 2020 reset button.
Your swellnet identity picture is the P.D.I. Moncong Putih symbol.
Do you even understand that it translate to 'Buffalo with white snout'.
Zen, I’m afraid there’s no good news about international air travel. Apart from the likely 12 plus months before restricted flights resume between selected countries there will be higher ticket prices and fewer airlines in business by then. It’s possible pre Covid19 ease of movement will take years to resume. We need a vaccine before any of that truly possible when you think about it ..... only my uneducated guess here, hoping I’m totally overstating it
Thanks man, I hope so too.
But, I'm not confident. You don't tend to overstate things.
Good luck Zen hoping you can get your family soon. We were meant to hiking in Northern Italy next month with some UK based Australian family. Now thinking it best if they try to get back sometime next year, sad
Thanx JQ...(Hillsong 'Psyches' was the key, but then it just got more sad to reveal).
Oz Pres. Brian says Psyches are losers > (Hillsong need 2 Psyches for Prison rort!)
2 Hillsong Psyches buys endless Gay Conversion (Ouch!) & Miracle Kidz (Blessing!)
You're right! On paper none can argue that Oz is now #1 most oppressive regime.
[WR] Welfare Deceit + Biggest Lockdown Hammer + Covert Detention/Correction.
Hillsong's Stolen Generation brands Oz as a Pentecostal South Seas Mission! [SOS]
Ludicrous comments about no international flights in/out of Oz till next year from pollies.
Brits reckon common steroid may reduce death rate dramatically so whats the problem?
Feel for those affected.
Flights cancelled til next year?
That'd explain why my hawaii flights got cancelled on me then. Not that I wasn't expecting it.
Indo..."I will give a reply to other post when i get a chance Brutus, but im really not interested in getting into the Dark Emu stuff too much, we kind of did that all some time ago.
No one denies Indigenous people did all kinds of things that you can loosely class as agriculture etc its really not important........................"
There is so much more proof than Dark Emu......I think that in any debate or where opinions differ, the first thing to do is find a foundation of facts from both sides that we agree on so we can address and debate the issues at hand.......so history is very important when we discuss racism , and that we understand the history of how and why we now have a very racist society ....so how did we get to this point.
that's why I suggested we look at Australian Indigenous history vs Colonialism...
1) what was Blackfella culture before whiteman invaded?
2) What was the culture that the white Colonialists had?
3) what were the immediate consequences of the Invasion?
4) Were there any issues that were created in the last 200 years that have a bearing on how Blackfellas are treated today?
5) WTF does reconciliation mean?
6) Has Whitemans cultural colonialism been a positive or a negative..
Now there's a start ....Dark Emu is a very important educational tool , stoked you will try and read it...and if you need I have a shit load of links to whitemans journals that show , permanent dwellings, communities living in towns, agriculture , yes hunting and gathering.....civilized societies , that seem superior to what we have become...
One of the reasons I am doing this is to educate people and to also bare my racist leanings , and try and verbalize the pain of racism.....and unless you have suffered systemic racism , it's pretty hard to understand the sadness and anger that manifests itself , reacting to the current climate of unrest and hopefully by addressing History in a civil manner , we could or should be able to get more clarity on the how's and why's of racism!
Brutus, dunno about anyone else, but I'd be interested in having a flick through some of those articles. Care to share a couple of the more accessible ones?
Second that Pops, if you're willing to somehow share Brutus?
Not sure you read this one....http://www.australasianscience.com.au/article/issue-july-august-2010/evi...
would be interested to read comments.
Do you want me to start telling and linking the atrocities committed by the colonialists against the blackfellas...it's really fucken gruesome...so be careful what you ask for?
I wouldn't ask you to recount any stories - aware that may be difficult or traumatic - but I am genuinely interested in reading about that part of our history... as an old teacher once said "those who don't study their history are doomed to repeat it". Plus I'm well aware of how ill-informed I am about current debates so I want to rectify that. So any links you've got, and any books you'd recommend me finding, I'd appreciate.
I've read about the myall creek massacre and some overviews on similar attrocities committed at that time, but not much else in detail.
^^That first one is a really interesting read. I'd heard about the pretty sophisticated aquaculture/fish trapping setups before, but not the yam farming etc or permanent/semi permanent dwellings.
@Pops, that's why Dark Emu is great, goes into those details about dwellings, farming and storing.
Hi Pops , I read a book about 20 years ago , that burying babies up to their heads , and then the white settlers used to play polo , by decapitating the babies...here's a link, FFS going down this rabbit hole...
That's f*kd up. Blows my mind that anyone could do that to another human... guess that paints a bloody picture of the dangers of dehumanising any group.
And chances are some of my ancestors were involved...
Mate, don't keep going down that hole if it's distressing.
Craig, I'll have to get a copy. Been meaning to for a while but haven't gotten around to it.
FWIW A mate of mine said he's sat in on some lectures Bruce Pascoe gave at UTS and said he's seriously impressive.
You've brought back sad memories. I remember my late father telling me those stories as a small boy. Incomprehensible now, so imagine how an 8 year old boy felt being told that.
We have grown up with many first Aussies as close family friends. My 'Auntie' Phyllis babysat me and my bro's for years while mum and dad worked. She made me a golliwog ironically. Still got it somewhere. She was ace.
Brutus, hoping this is a valid link
^ if you click the "more" link in the legend, you get a more detailed breakdown:
Just on lunch so very quickly.
The major problems for indigenous people are much greater in remote communities, family violence, sexual abuse, rape, child abuse, homicide, high suicide rates.
If the past had been different without all the wrong doings of non indigenous people would indigenous people in remote communities still face all the all the issues they face today?
Naturally assuming that the modern world had been adopted by other communities and populations built up as they have with economy's and employment etc
Just woke up, and about to go for a cleansing dip, so very quickly...
No, Info Dreamin', you fucking idiotic waste of space.
60000 years plus tells us so.
Stop pretending you give a shit.
Obviously also assuming that these community's also want to live as the modern world do as 99% of people around the world do, so would still need to be supported by government benefits etc as would not be any jobs, so same situation as today but without the negative past aspects