It seems that discussions about racism get tangled up in various threads on this forum, so it would be more practical to have one thread dedicated to this complex, contentious issue.
Protesting against the name of Colonial Brewing?
Seems pretty silly.
There's going to be a long list to work through, from every Elizabeth, Margaret and George street to anything to do with Maquarie or Darling etc etc.
Considering all this talk of systemic issues (and for good reason) all of the above, especially the targeting of small businesses seems like very low hanging fruit.
Where's the serious discussion about the Union Jack on the Australian flag?
Fuck, if you want symbolism, there's your target.
And even more importantly, why wouldn't you use this point in time to really push for the alteration or abolition of Section 25 and Section 51 (xxvi).
Seems a bit shallow otherwise.
In case it helps.
When I was a little Adam, back in the 60's, our next door neighbour, old guy, ex-swimming administrator, bit of an Arthur Tunstall type, had a black lab he called (N-word). He would walk out on the back verandah and call out for it. Drove my mother insane. Only heard her use the word 'fuck' a couple of times in all her 72 years, one of them was to him.
A few years later, I'm about 11 or 12, at a church youth group family bbq day, my brother is playing with the Vicars black lab and I, the idiot son, call out to him "He looks just like (N-word)." All the adults heads snap around giving me filthy looks, I try to explain (N-word) is a dog, that I didn't say "a (N-word)." and end up saying it half a dozen times. Needless to say I wasn't too popular.
Outrageous! File the beer 'story' in the "it's political correctness gone mad!" clickbait file.
If there's any room.
Aussie Karen and the toddler*.
*re: Courtney Jones, previous page. Yew!
my point of the little beer story was, some of us have enough freedom of thought to decide for ourselves what they find offensive or tacky, I'm certainly no offended, but I do find naming a beer 'colonial' post 1980 rather tacky...
a little hypersensitive maybe? yeh probably...
I also felt a little conflicted walking into the 'settlers' tavern ....but I aim't gonna burn the place down...
because Im not a facist, Im anti-facist
which is why I cannot get on board with your ever rollimg, eye rolling, flavour of the month, burning and deplatforming, fashion purge
horses for causes, you facistcunt
“File the beer 'story' in the "it's political correctness gone mad!" file.”
Ok will do.
And, umm, nice meme, makes total sense.
(Edit ~ deleted personal info)
“They are not indigenous leaders.
Real indigenous leaders…”
Vic just decided for hundreds of thousands of different people, from hundreds of different nations, who their leaders are.
Talk about stereotyping and whitesplaining.
Yep Facto you miss the whole point of the article.
Why does non murdoch mainstream media not talk about the real issues that affect indigenous people?
Or movements like black lives matter etc
Like the extremely high rates of domestic violence especially towards women and children that is one of the major reasons in many areas of Australia why incarnation rates are so high.
But off course to you it's racist to point these things out.
I don't pretended to be some indigenous crusader or lose sleep over it but it's the bullshit im calling out, a big focus of late has been indigenous deaths in custody that are actually lower per 100 people in custody than non indigenous and been that way for almost 20 years.
Im not sure if its due to lack of education that the focus is on the wrong issues or if it's a fear of pointing out where the real problems are because they are not a result of white people or if its a left, right thing or what.
But the wider media at least should have some responsibility to say, hey wait a minute these are the facts, this issue is clearly not an issue about race if deaths in custody is an issue (murder or suspicious) its one that isn't about race, but hey you want to talk about real indigenous issues (not tokenism) these are the facts.
People like you really don't care either, it's more about appearance and politics, but the negative result is distraction from real issues, and a bigger creation of division and fuelling of race related issues.
To actually ignore the real issues that really affect the lives of Indigenous people (violence, suicide, reason behind high incarceration rates etc) in itself is closer to racism, because if the issues and rates were in non indigenous communities it would be a huge issue and be front page news.
Great comment Courtney. It does look like that.
Good post Patrick
Poverty, alcoholism, domestic violence, children committing suicide, welfare families, lack of opportunity. These things exist across the spectrum of Australian society, not just Aboriginal communities. Are any of you guys posting about these problems in non-aboriginal Australia or is it only blackfellas problems you white armchair experts care to provide wisdom about.
Indo.."Personally i cant understand that whole colonialist v's indigenous type thing, i kind of cringed when Brutus said something along those lines on the other page, i don't want to argue on behalf of colonist or have a colonist vs indigenous type debate, who see's themselves as colonist here?
I see myself as Australian, just as other Aussie do born here that might have an ethnic background from China, India, Vietnam, Japan, Phillipines, NZ, Canada, USA, UK or wherever.
Even if there is people here that share blood with the original settlers or whatever that makes no difference either, people are not a product of their ancestors or ethnicity."
Indo , don't cringe , what I am trying to establish , what was the colonial mentality/culture Vs Australian Indigenous culture..from the time the white man arrived in Australia to now.
What have been the negatives and the positives for each race/culture ......?
Has the past treatment of Australian Aboriginals led them to where they are today , with all the violent abuse in Aboriginal communities , grog , sugar etc...
If you don;t learn from the past , you are doomed to repeat mistakes of the past , over and over again , so it is important to know the history of both sides ...we have 200 years to study ......what went wrong, unless you consider it's all good?
I am really troubled by your last paragraph "Even if there is people here that share blood with the original settlers or whatever that makes no difference either, people are not a product of their ancestors or ethnicity."
Therein lies one misconception , people ARE a product of their ancestors ethnicity and culture...so 200 years vs 50-60,000 years......the problem is that Australian White/ now cosmopolitan culture is so young compared to our Indigenous Australians....
Totally agree and a good start would be teaching Australian history in school, without bias, without an agenda from the very time they first walk through the classroom door.
About 60,000 years pre-Cook would be a good place to start.
agree with Brutus.
most white people in Aus, are fucking tourists.
just an eg.
this place is a fishing village....and has been for thousands and thousands of years, at least since the last ice age retreated and formed the current coastline, and probably before that.
sophisticated fish trap built by knowledgeable hands and minds where the basalt boulders form the intertidal reef.
other day I walked back along the path with 3 fat tailor, would've been bread and butter for bundjalung crew.
I passed half a dozen people. Not one person knew what they were.
I like what you're saying free, but that doesn't make them ignorant, just makes them not knowledgeable about fish.
We need to stop pulling people down and start bringing them up. Everybody.
What's the native word for Tailor?
Well said Brutus. Also further to what Zen suggested regarding the teaching in our schools of this country's complete and comprehensive history, it continues to astound me that in the year 2020 this is still not being significantly implemented. I think this is a huge piece of this complex puzzle that needs to be in place, alongside many others, in order for positive change to progress at a faster rate.
Thats just an eg Zen.
The lack of knowledge about our surroundings/environment/animals/marine life etc etc .....is increasing, not decreasing if you ask me.
I don't say that to "pull people down", just as an observation.
Australia is changing fast and part of that is a very fast growing population that has a very limited knowledge/connection to country.
tailor= bumbah or Bumbay
That I can totally agree with.
And cool, I never knew that.
hahahah I'm a bit grumpy about it.
last winter, had a sweet little day surfing with the missus in clean babyfood then went to the river with the kids and caught a few keeper flathead.
Drove through the bottle-o to get a beer for the fire and there was feeding frenzy right in front of me.
had the light gear in the car still and had a ball catching big greenback tailor in 2ft of water hammering a bait ball,
some fcukwit that was talking to me took a heap of photos and put them all over social media.
that mentality I call a tourist mentality.
@FR, or maybe he was just from Newcastle....
is that what they do?
"a good start would be teaching Australian history in school, without bias, without an agenda from the very time they first walk through the classroom door.
About 60,000 years pre-Cook would be a good place to start."
Generally agree Zen but would be good to go back a lot further - I think a crucial part of beginning to understand your environment is to get a bit of a handle on vegetation, geology and zoology and what that means in different parts of the country in terms of human relationships to the land.
Freeride....what was the social media thing about ?
What was the angle ?
Wondering the same thing.
just a "look at me" thing.
but look at him, instead.
I didn't appreciate being the him.
Sounds more like a QLD thing than a Newcastle thing....just sayin :)
Too many flogs nation wide wearing camo pants, advertising billboard XXXL fishing shirt and go pro's walking the flats or breakwalls, telling the whole world how precious the whiting/flathead/jew they just caught is, but inviting the rest of the world to go rape and pillage that spot, fill up the carparks with rubbish, burn all the local wood and human shit paper everywhere. The true local hero's they are.....
Haha @uncle_leroy - maybe I need to get out more, but then again by the sounds of it....
try this....man I pray that those who committed the murder , are not white!
Why Brutus ?
Murder is murder.
this ones for Indo.....well actually for everyone to read and try and understand the Australian Indigenous culture...read Dark Emu.........it will change your perception and opinion .......
Indo...I know you say Dark Emu is bullshit...ty reading this.....https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/how-dark-em...
Another interesting read.
"The assumption that indigenous Australians did not develop agriculture is highly contestable, with a body of evidence revealing that they developed food production systems and in some cases lived in large villages."
great stuff AndyM........waiting for Indo to fire up , but I think a quote from your article says it all...."This debate cannot progress unless we overcome our own paradigm blindness and acknowledge that some indigenous groups in Australia were indeed engaged in agricultural forms of food production."
The proof is there for all of us to see ....unless ya have the ol Blinkers on!
And from that IA link brutus, a logical conclusion:
"However, I think ‘Dark Emu’ is an important book because it forces us to look at Australian history with fresh eyes that are not half-closed by the inherent bias that white history brings to our past. It also confronts us with ideas about Australia’s future transformation in the wake of climate change. That scares the denialists even more."
Correct me if I'm wrong but part of the discussion seems to revolve around people needing to accept that although indigenous Australians didn't have neatly terraced rice paddies or ploughed fields they were still engaged in organised agriculture.
Different methods in different environments.
I don’t understand the contentiousness regarding indigenous agriculture or housing. Humans maximise their ability to thrive from the environment around them . Why would indigenous Australians be any different ? They figured shit out and made things happen like every other tribe on Earth.
Sure, they didn’t build the Coliseum But they didn’t poison themselves with lead pipes either.
It’s the human experiment.....no one knew what was going to work so everyone just did the best they could with what they had.
I will give a reply to other post when i get a chance Brutus, but im really not interested in getting into the Dark Emu stuff too much, we kind of did that all some time ago.
No one denies Indigenous people did all kinds of things that you can loosely class as agriculture etc its really not important, we know how the majority of indigenous people lived which is based on a hunter gather type model, things like fish traps etc are old news i learnt that stuff in high school or maybe it was those old Harry buttler or Alby mangles era type doccos.
Again i kind of find this whole need to make indigenous culture more inline with european culture kinda cringey.
If i was indigenous id kind of find that whole narrative insulting (as some do) because you are basically saying i need too make it more like what you guys have so it's viewed of more value or something.
When really why not just value the hunter gather thing for what it is?
I havent read his book and Stu kind of put me off doing so, as sounds like a hard read, but the main problem i see from the analyst of sections I've read is how he joins dots.
It's pretty clear at least at times he is just making huge assumptions when looking at historical text/journals etc just to fit the narrative.
For example walking through a flat grassland suddenly turns into, endless miles of cultivated grains (or something along those lines)
I remember watching lots of his videos and reading his stuff and others views etc, and he basically decided one day (after being rejected about something?) that he was going to prove this or that, it just feels to me like he has this picture he wants or believes in and he needs to force all these pieces together to make the picture, instead of just collocating all the paces and letting it become whatever picture it is.
Hillsong's Stolen Generation [ Version : 2020 ] Not a joyful Exclusive!
Pentecostal Southern Mission cont...
Lib's Class Warfare Card denies 80% of Indigenous trade, culture & livelyhood.
80% of Aboriginal existence is now shaped by cbd / global import faceless culture.
Privatisation of Prisons hastens dispossession & saves by centralising community.
Cuts down the cost of Aboriginal Welfare if they resettle in razor wire camps.
Like the [CARD] > only the Government are entitled to receipt. ( Non accountable!)
Cattle class gated Aboriginal compounds stripped of income, health & family.
Aboriginal Welfare & punishment is secret men's business as with Refugee Camps.
Overseas Adoption has closed it's books! Reviving the Oz Stolen Generation trade.
For this to happen, Govt needed to institutionalize Slavery at highest level.
Shock Jock to request Mandatory sentencing for Black' kidz petrol sniffers etc:
The Hillsong Govt stacked the desired department heads with their own.
PM + Ministers > Fed Police / Corrective / Special ''/ Human" / Disabled services.
State Police Commissioner / Drug & Rehab MP...etc.. > (Private Prison services)
Hillsong are now registered Prison health providers - (Govt sanctioned Conversion!)
Prison Contracts rort $billions & now with no pesky paper trail for denied services.
No paper trail on Gay Conversion therapy, Baptisms, beatings or Stolen Children.
Note: Hillsong employ Psyches to (legally) address Mental Health on their terms.
Handy as 37% of Oz female prisoners are lesbians...(4% in community)
(Factcheck) Gay conversion therapy (Hillsong Hobby) is still legal in Australia.
Oz copied US private prison model to cut & deny services & hide Black beatings
Govt instead hire Religious > Wacko volunteers to cut costs to convert savages.
Basically, the more conversions the more money for the God Squad...(PM's mates)
Oz now has highest % of Prisoners in Private Prisons...(18%) Yep! Higher than US.
Since 2013 Aboriginal women are deemed perfect for prison with 50% increase.
Their crimes are non payment of petty / Traffic fines or self defence of DV or drugs.
Aboriginal women are 21x more likely to face prison than their white sisters.
32.7% / yr increase on Remand...63% are mothers (33% linger here for a year)
No childcare services are offered to Women on Remand.(The child vanishes!)
Once Prisoners were able to keep children up until School Age Year (Qld) .
New Private Prisons have cut that time down to 4 days > (More Foster Babies)
Children are taken & no accounts are kept or given.
Mums get 2x visits year ...But Family & Child Services forbid kidz visiting a jail.
We're talking minimum rights...Xmas / Birthday (Only) For the very lucky few.
Mothers are reminded that they will be strip searched if they see their own child.
Women's Prisons are kept remote from Aboriginal community & CBD transit.
"LOCAL" phone contact is then denied to remand Mothers...(No child contact!)
Courts / Prison provide Video links (Extremely rare - 150/yr total m/f prisons nsw)
Foster-Respite Care rules out Aboriginal Assist > criminal association + Civic needs
Rare that remand mothers will be reunited until children turn 18 years of age.
NSW Govt: Aboriginal Prison Mothers have lowest co parent support.
Figures replicate with Aboriginal Women prisoners lack of housing on release.
Each year 500 Aboriginal ex 'NSW' Prison 'Mothers' have no housing = No Kids.
Ain't no rush to house them without children...back inside the Big house they go...
Private Prisons leave no paper trail & Hillsong bank off Angli-Care also.
Aboriginal children are inspirational by virtue (Hillsong scored a license to bottle it!)
Childless couples prayers are answered by Brian'n'Bobbie...It's a miracle alright!
No o/s adoption no Covid child Slaves yet here stands our very own child.
PM's Hillsong's Stolen Generation coming to a town parish near you.
Hillsong Childcare > Youth group Promo Aboriginal converts outcasting Satan.
I’m at a loss to find a single good reason to willingly invite Swellnet’s resident amateur anthropologist out from his dank basement. He’s already spent hours debunking Dark Emu and it’s author in the grandest of Murdoch/Fox traditions ... I’m getting a large bucket of pop corn this is going to be epic.
BTW. this whole notion that kids dont get taught heaps of indigenous stuff at school i think is false, in the 80s at school i remember getting taught heaps of stuff on all kinds of aspects and it wasn't all from a white perspective, i remember even going out with the class in the bush at some school camp and we had to try and make shelters and using oacha paint it was all related to stuff we were doing in class.
I heard them talking on ABC the other day and lots of people rang up and said similar things.
When i was young i was actually really interested in heaps of indigenous stuff, i think maybe just because i loved all that outback Alby mangles, leyland brothers, Harry buttler type stuff plus my favourite Auntie was a school teacher up at upammagari north territory for year and use to come back with all these stories and stuff, i remember one cool book she had on the dreamtime stories that she always use to read to us, loved it as a kid, i still vaguely remember some of the stories and all the cool pictures.
You haven't read it Indo? Well you can't comment on it.
I'm half way through and am amazed how much of the indigenous history that's discussed by early explorers isn't mentioned at all in the history I learnt.
He's not just joining dots, it's all there, recorded in writing.
Do yourself a favour and read it.
I read the analyst of sections on that website debunking it and the sections it broke down were clearly extremely misleading.
I guess of you were reading it, you wouldn't pick up on these things, but for me it looses credibly when truth is being stretched to such lengths.
indo... you're arguing that by not reading the book you're in a better position to judge it than if you were reading the book?
That would seem rather incoherent.
Either that or all those kids back at school english classes who were reading the spark notes instead of the book were actually doing it right...
I've read both Indo, the book and the 'debunking'.
If you haven't read the book, there's no point commenting on it. The same goes for any book. Bolt hasn't read it.
I'm surprised you think you can know about a book if you haven't read it. That's how ignorance is developed.
It's the same as people dismissing Jacinta and other commentators work that you've posted without reading it... forming opinions without the actual knowledge.
So the first quarter has been a whitewash with Indo failing to get on the board, his game day thinking has been found completely missing. His out cold in the middle of the ground, hasn’t moved, like a stunned mullet having been lined up from the back row of the grandstand from the opening bounce ..... slurp, slurp, hot pies, hot pies get your hot pies.
@ Craig & Patrick
Okay I will have a go at reading the book, I will borrow it from the library read the first few chapters, if i can get into it, i will buy it and read it next Indo trip, it's really the only time i read, but i love a good book in Indo especially for waiting for flights and i only read non fiction, autobiographies, history etc.
And until then i wont comment on it further.
More great research TTB