It seems that discussions about racism get tangled up in various threads on this forum, so it would be more practical to have one thread dedicated to this complex, contentious issue.
"Stu was there ....but so was I . Fuckers got told to pull their heads in and it worked out best for everyone."
Hey? Can you clarify, Blowie? There or not there?
Did I just get a ‘good post’ from Blowin AND VicLocal?
Rack that up as another positive outcome. I’ll take it as a win I guess. Or evidence that nothing I have written actually makes any sense...
"How is this for a piss poor response In the face of increasing violence?"
The local coppers warned about increasing tension and they were badly let down by the higher ups and the state government.
After Jones / Hadley poured fuel on the fire, the local coppers where hopelessly outnumbered. I feel sorry for the poor copper who had to go onto the train with the baton to protect a member of the public from the mob. Poor bloke got PTSD.
The bra-boys response was seriously opportunistic. They'd had some terrible press and needed some good PR.
If you knew fuck all about the Bra Boys their intervention would have come across as a calming effect.
"Hey? Can you clarify, Blowie? There or not there?"
Maybe blowin was not in Cronulla physically, but with da boys in spirit?
Yeah, that bloke was pretty gutsy.
TBH, Ref the local cops. They made some poor decisions. Not closing the bottlos once there was a crowd of 5000+ was probably the biggest one. Especially considering the organised brawls the weekEnd before and the inflammatory media in the intervening week.
Alcohol. The Aussie vice.
Did someone ask what blow in's thoughts on the event in Charlottesville were?
Hmmm, there seems to be a pattern...
Yeh , Facto.
It’s called perspective and reasoned thinking.
You should try it.
I notice you’re still a facile cunt after all these years . Well done.
Vic local you have a lot to say and your input from the news reports
you believe are plainly ignorant and stupid when people who were actually
present tell you what really went down I find you offensive and yes I was
there all day and also witnessed 1st hand what went down when the Lebo mobs turned up at night now that was a reckless out of hand dangerous groups of pure scum and a rampaging RIOT. (the cover up)
I guess you would never say The China Virus thats brought the world to its knees because it sounds racist even thou its true. Or are you in denial there as well.
I dont know who Blowin is and I dont care but he certainly has a better knowledge
and perspective than you on this subject and youre just a ignorant weapon head.
"I dont know who Blowin is and I dont care but he certainly has a better knowledge and perspective than you."
Well, he was there I guess...or wasn't there?? Erm, physically? Psychically?
Still waiting on clarification.
And by the way mate, surely it's 'Kung Flu'?
Speaking of such...
What a strange admixture you are, Blowie.
A Swellnetonian cross between Alan Jones re: Cronulla riots, and Trumpy re: Charlottesville.
A balding, overstuffed orange parrot!
Chi...na, SQUAWK, Chi...na.
Brothers of swellnet ,lets all come together in this moment of aggression and form a circle and hold hands and sing kumbaya......all together now....show the love people.......
said no one
How is the situation and vibe in Cronulla these days?
Is there still issues to tension, like there was?
As someone that does't have much of a connection to cronulla (other than mum living there in late 60s and visiting a mate that lived in some dodgy building that was more like squat) the race riots were still not much of a surprise, seemed a very long going thing even through the 90s i remember letters in tracks mag going on about fights and tension between ethic groups & hommies with surfers & beach goers.
Well, reading back there was a good moment on the thread, and then it had acid thrown on it all over again.
Totally uncalled for.
Hi Indo ..I think you missed my reply to you a couple of days ago....
Hi Indo been thinking a lot about what you wrote ,"Nobody disputes past atrocities they were obviously very wrong, but they don't have a bearing on the future of people no matter the acts or the people."
****** History is who we are. Warts an all! History is the story of who we were and now who we are. I believe that by embracing history we should be able not repeat mistakes of the past and use lessons of History to evolve to become better humans.
You referenced Nazi Germany and who bore the guilt for the Nazi war crimes. I was in Bochom Germany in the 80's at a trade show...... Bochum in a University hub so I was out a dinner one night with about 30 Germans all pretty pissed...when I dropped Adolphs name and asked please discuss in English...pretty amazing result, it was sorta 50/50 , those who said it had nothing to do with them, That was their parents etc........the other 50% took ownership that it was a cultural mutation , going back to the Teutonic knights , where Germany was all powerful, pride and the belief that Germany was "THE" superior race.....after about 1/2 an hr it was clear to see the anger from those who said it had nothing to do with them( It was another generation) , whereas there was a very calm sadness from those who had studied history and took ownership of the fact that the German Nazi era was a culmination of repressing German Culture with the treaty of Versailles........which turned Germany into a repressed nation , and fertile for the Nazi narrative ....lessons were learned Germany admitted to genocide of the Jews, built memorial/museums ...and they do not forget this era....as no-one wants a repeat!
IMHO that mindset is extremely dangerous, if you believe you are a product of your ancestors past and that past isn't pretty and you focus on that you will surely bring negativity to your future.
**** It goes both ways , would you deny truths , just because it might have a negative message/affect? We are still learning about how to live together warts and all....you cannot understand a problem without taking into account the facts of the problem so you can understand .....which is why Dark Emu is an important , as it brings another element of the Blackfella's side of the story...
It goes both ways, if my grandfather was a Nazi and responsible for the hundreds of deaths of innocent Jews, i would in no way be responsible in anyway for those deaths and should not harbour any guilt for those deaths to do so would be self destructive.
****** read above Germany admitted Genocide of the Jews , lest we not forget!
What is important would be my actions today and moving forward and how i am as a person.
******** yes but does that person understand 50-60000 years of stewardship/custodianship the culture that was here before whiteman , and the 200 years of mistreatment has led to where we are today......still don't understand Australia's Indigenous history...the abuse and treatment they received has had an enormous negative affect ........
Blowin ,really..."Far more recently than any blackfella massacre in Australia, the friendly Japanese were keen on enslaving and murdering as much of the globe as their supply chains would allow.
But yeah , White guilt never erases but the Japanese morph into immaculate culture.
That’s what’s known as gaslighting."
So Blackfellas were massacred before WW11.............enslaving and murdering was done by the Japanese in WW11.....sorry World War , it was war .....what excuse do you give to Colonialists ?
Japans and Germany's culture dealt with their atrocities , as we are trying now , to ignore or belittle the current anti-racism movement or not be part of it only leads to more of the same ol ......White Australia policy , divisions, lack of respect and understanding of the issues.....which makes Australia a much lesser nation to what we could/should be!
Blowin, for someone trying to encourage national harmony you sure do like to fight. You react strongly against terms like "white" "black", and in the next sentence use them yourself without a hint of self-awareness.
Oh Lord! Kumbaya...crew wished for nice brotherly miracles in the Shire.
( 1st Miracle in The Shire )
2007 Scomo lost Lib preselection so disendorsed the Leb winner for being Muslim.
The Good Lord said: 'Oz is blessed to have the chosen one as their PM'.
( 2nd Miracle in The Shire )
crew evoke Scomo's teary eyed baptism of unholy Lebs to consecrate The Shire.
Scomo heals Chikos vs Lebos rift on set of the "Kokoda Mateship Mini Series"
PM..and i was just preaching the flock on how we play the racism card in The Shire.
Brutus....English culture at the time wasn’t defined and encapsulated by the attempted genocide committed by the Monarchy and greedy capitalists .
It’s no different from the thousands upon thousands of people in the Middle East who have been killed by our current generation of greedy capitalists just so you have oil to put in your car and to make the things you consume everyday.
I often wonder if people consider this whilst they’re falling over themselves either finger pointing or expressing proxy guilt for ancestral wrongs as they are , to this very day , complicit in exactly the same behaviour as those they are lamenting.
That’s how it was for English culture back then and that’s how it is for your and mine culture now. Doesn’t mean our shared culture doesn’t contain a deep thread of empathy, compassion and sharing. So it’s a bit facile to suggest that indigenous culture was superior due to some perceived higher commitment to sharing. Whilst we currently look away whilst lives are ruined to perpetuate our consumer lifestyles, we also devote a large proportion of our labour and efforts towards a health and welfare system which is intended to leave no one uncared for.
Contradictions in all cultures.
Oceans 11.....As generations passed for the last 200 plus years and this mixing continues, I am curious to know how indigenous people with mixed blood see their own identity, considering their partners were probably part white.
Brutus, do people with mixed heritage have conflicting ideas on how to reconcile a stance or a position in society?
I think that there are different levels of engagement to Indigenous culture , as there are the remote communities who still live traditional mixed with Western Culture...I think the Western influence has not been good ,Grog/Sugar /systemic abuse etc.....there is a move to try and rid the Grog/sugar and address past injustices....so indentifying with their 60000 culture is actually empowering as there is a big divide.....between the 2 cultures.....materialism vs Spiritualism....
The Urban blackfellas struggle more because they have mostly lived in Cities as part of the western culture fighting for their Indigenous Culture.
I think at present we are watching Western Culture being seriously challenged ( as you can see by the way some of the postees carry on here LOL) on all levels, Economic/health/Climate/spirituality........hmmm 60000 years vs 200...we always seem to end up discussing what's bad....but when you look how your life would have been if you were indigenous.....Gimme Black fella cuture any and every day after!
You’re shitting me , right ?
Last night was absolutely freezing and I was tucked up in a safe , warm , cozy house instead of coated in possum fat and lying under a gum tree.
The legendary old bloke upstairs was also warm and cozy , whereas he would have been dead a couple of decades ago if it wasn’t for modern lifestyle.
The only problem with the modern world is that it’s allowed humanity to reach such staggering amounts of population and that’s only a bad thing if you don’t count yourself as one of the lucky masses .
No shaping surfboards back in the day.....no surfing !
Ps.....not sure why you keep referring to Western culture as 200 years old ?
Despite the “ oldest living culture “ hype , every person alive today all descended from the same slimy thing which crawled out of the oceans and started the journey towards humanity. We’ve all been walking the Earth in the same capacity for 99.99999 percent of our shared existence.
BTW....the term Western culture is also a misnomer as virtually every culture on Earth is now converging on the same shared cultural future to a degree.
It’s iPhones , fiat currency and working life on every nation on Earth just about irrespective of skin colour or ancestral history.
Hi Bowin........"Brutus....English culture at the time wasn’t defined and encapsulated by the attempted genocide committed by the Monarchy and greedy capitalists ."
What we are talking about is colonialism , "Colonialism is the policy of a country seeking to extend or retain its authority over other people or territories, [ need quotation to verify ] generally with the aim of economic dominance. In the process of colonisation, colonisers may impose their religion, economics, and other cultural practices on indigenous peoples."
You don’t think US forces being in the Middle East for twenty odd years is a form of colonialism ? What about when the leader of the people in these countries is selected by Western forces so they comply with our demands ? Or the fact they we blow up their infrastructure then lend them money to rebuild it using Western companies?
You really don’t think that you are peripherally involved in colonialism ?
I also think of that when I see BLM protesters decrying their ancestors being subject to slavery and protesting white privilege whilst they are the direct beneficiaries of subjugated and destroyed people for oil and slave labour practices for their consumer products.
We are all complicit in modern colonialism and subjugation of others to a degree .....why would we focus on historical guilt to the point of excusing ourselves for injustices we are involved with to this day ?
Blowin ....Last night was absolutely freezing and I was tucked up in a safe , warm , cozy house instead of coated in possum fat and lying under a gum tree.
Firstly surfing is like having a wank , it's a personal pleasure....
Not sure if you are serious when you say you have a superior culture because you were warm in bed last night.....and for your information trying to denigrate indigenous Culture by stereo typing them as savages sleeping under gum trees covered in possum fat......well there's the problem, either you are not educated enough on Indigenous culture and have no real interest of educating yourself further...or you are just happy in your world which is a material one....and Ignorance is bliss?
On the contrary, I’m not denigrating indigenous culture at all , I don’t for a second think that modern culture is superior . Though neither am I ceding to a storyline that claims indigenous culture was superior .
Different lifestyles is all. Good and bad points with both cultures and ways of life, I reckon.
PS....I didn’t claim that sleeping under trees was for “ savages “. That’s your distinction, not mine.
Like you said , it’s all subjective. I find that I’m happiest when proximal to nature .....but I hate being cold .
Anyway....I’ll leave you to get back to your discussion about reconciling identity. That was interesting.
Massive piece of manipulation to get yourself into that place, Blowin.
You 'may' say that the US in the ME is colonialism but you'd be far harder pressed to equate it with traditional colonialism which only served to enrich the motherland at any cost.
The world pays market rates for oil, and in fact since the 70s oil shocks and formation of OECD, those countries set the rates and in the process they've become among the richest in the world. Not as was the case with, say, England, who pillaged resources from the East under the threat of war.
The paragraph beginning 'I also think of that when I see BLM protesters...' is incorrect and a clumsy attempt at whataboutism. Belittling one movement in the belief - your belief - they're complicit in another.
BLM protesters are as complicit in the exploitation of people in foreign lands in pursuit of US fortunes as the English person in the street were when the Monarchy declared Terra Nullis.
Yet there’s statues being pulled down because they symbolised oppression of other races and white privilege.....whilst the protesters are wearing slave made Air Jordan’s and driving cars powered by the subjugation of people in the Middle East.
“The world pays market rates for oil, and in fact since the 70s oil shocks and formation of OECD, those countries set the rates and in the process they've become among the richest in the world“ .....yeah , lucky Iraq and Afghanistan ! I bet the people on the street think the oil wars are the best thing that ever happened to them .
blowin....well what did you mean by "instead of coated in possum fat and lying under a gum tree."......I mean really , is there any truth at all in what you said ?
You don’t think blackfellas coated themselves in possum fat to keep warm ?
Maybe I’m wrong , but I thought it was standard practice when it was available. Kept the mozzies at bay too.
Zen, your post yesterday about your uncle and cousins, do you think your cousins would be open to talking about it at some stage?, whether they are or not may in itself be a sensitive topic either way.
I have some other information I can share with you that your questions reminded me of but at least one of the links I want to post here is temporary down, I'll try again later today.
Ain't no oil in Afghanistan, Blowin.
Iraq, of course.
But your blanket excuse that 'we're all complicit in something' is a blunt tool to end all debate. Why not just deplatform someone?
Fight for the Bight protestors are complict in oil use, are they not?
But the nuanced view shines a different light on their motives. Think even you may have recognised that.
Most of your comments on Swellnet are grivances of one form or another, and I'd wager every single one of them could be nullified with a big blunt, "But then, you do this".
You may not agree with it, you may not even be aware of it, but many others would be.
Howsabout using nuance not just when it suits you but in all debates?
Well all I can say is that the WORLD should come together and ignore protest
and ban China they have destroyed the worlds economics and way
of life with this hideous virus people are losing there homes jobs businesses
marriages and committing suicide at a alarming rate.
I seriously cannot understand why there is not a major uprising from the
world leaders and massive protest rallies around the world against China.
Wake up world China is making a major move on every nation.
And if thats being racist against a rat country too fucken bad.
"Only 23 per cent of Australians surveyed trusted China ‘a great deal’ or ‘somewhat’ to act responsibly in the world, down from 52 per cent in 2018."
agree evo, pretty clear to see who the real living breathing 'evil empire' is right now...
literally getting away with murder, ...and slavery, whilst the world argues over the nuances of events from 100s of years ago
not saying we shouldn't ...but get some context people!
"I seriously cannot understand why there is not a major uprising from the
world leaders and massive protest rallies ..."
I can't, ...but I can...
What a wild thread.
I don’t know much about much, but I have had some thoughts on indigenous culture over the years.
I reckon as a nation, we have missed an opportunity to create a really great combined culture. There is an “Aussie” identity that we mostly share, but it does have a quite a few variations. Perhaps the most common version of it might be some variant on being “true blue” or perhaps a bit of “Crocodile Dundee” (or not…), or maybe some general association with the “wide brown land”, or (more topical for this website) the beach or “surfer” culture. People pick which they feel they like or identify the most with.
Imagine though if years ago, indigenous culture was integrated more tightly with the other current Aussie culture that evolved from European settlement. We would have something truly unique that we could all share in. Non-indigenous Australians would feel more connected to indigenous Australians if we all had some common understanding of a rich part of the land’s history from before European settlement. I think there would be less resentment all round.
I recall many years ago Ernie Dingo was a guest on the Steve Vizard tonight show. Ernie asked Steve to say hello in French…”Bonjour” replied Steve. Ernie then asked Steve for Italian….”Ciao”…..Spanish….”Hola”. Ernie then asked for “Aboriginal”. Not surprisingly, Steve was unable to say hello using an indigenous language. Ernie stated that there was around 300 indigenous languages spoken in Australian, and Steve didn’t know one of them.
Ernie wasn’t having a go at Steve, I think he was making a great point. I was born in the sixties my recollection of learning about indigenous culture in school is pretty sparse. Hopefully it is better now. Why don’t people know some level of basic indigenous language?
I don’t know if the above ramblings make sense, but I reckon if we had more common ground and more of a common appreciation for something we can share, it could only be a good thing. If we can get past the “us and them” feelings it would be a step in the right direction.
Peace to all.
""Only 23 per cent of Australians surveyed trusted China ‘a great deal’ or ‘somewhat’ to act responsibly in the world, down from 52 per cent in 2018.""
I seriously cannot for a minute believe as much as 23% still feel that way... still..
guardian puff piece?
global gluttons last gasp?
that's a lotta useful idiots...
Nice one Nobody.
Shame Ernie didn't ask about an Aboriginal word for reef, as I reckon even Steve Vizard would've heard of bombora.
Agree with your points though.
If you really want nuance in the debate why not just shine a bright light onto the fact that blackfellas would have been murdering each other for territory and resources- including women as chattel- for probably all of the 60,000 years but now we are meant to genuflect over the frozen moment in time when white fellas arrived as the point of first sin.
Fucks sake , there’s hundreds of seperate nations, all speaking different languages , all armed with weapons of war and yet we are supposed to ignore their pillaging of each other cause someone else did the same , only their skin was a different colour ? Australia was balkanised long before white fella got here yet it’s somehow been wallpapered over .
Except that’s very a unpleasant conversation, isn’t it ?
As you were .....back to pretending that blackfellas were happy , happy fairies in the garden who never acted with ill intent towards each other and all got along . So peaceful and such a superior culture !
Like fuck.....the first words the blackfellas said to Cook was “ Fuck off “.
A bigger gang came along and did to them what they’d been doing to each other for millennia . It’s called humanity.
Now someone tell me I’m racist for stating this obvious fact.
You want truth telling.....let’s talk truth .
Hangabout, whoever said that?
I sure as fuck didn't say it, nor think it, so it feels to me like it's just more blunt arguing from you.
Bit more whataboutism to excuse any other transgression.
It all becomes very convenient.
"I reckon as a nation, we have missed an opportunity to create a really great combined culture. "
As a teenager I thought it was coming, and with stuff like Midnight Oil, Warumpi Band, Coloured Stone, Redgum, Goanna etc all in the mainstream, I believed we were on the verge of forging a uniquely Australian identity.
One that would lift up indigenous crew and to borrow from Freeride, would help to move non-indigenous Australians past being tourists in their own country.
Clearly didn't happen.
I totally agree with mr. .nobody...
however, I believe a massive insummountable mound has developed which is stifling the genuine yearning many aussies have for moving forward
and this is part of it
"You want truth telling.....let’s talk truth."
Blowin, it's well known that Aboriginals fought, skeletons have been found with war wounds, tools of war have been found, there are stories of battles. To my knowledge none of this is covered up and I don't understand why you think it would be.
"As a teenager I thought it was coming, and with stuff like Midnight Oil, Warumpi Band, Coloured Stone, Redgum, Goanna etc all in the mainstream, I believed we were on the verge of forging a uniquely Australian identity.
Clearly didn't happen."
I think a lot of us felt it andym
sadly it died in the arse, and it ain't remotely retrievable in the modern context, ...it would seem...
It certainly puts the colonisation story into perspective. Blackfellas killing each other over land = no problem . They declared terra nullis after the tribal fighting stopped and new territory was theirs by bloodshed .
What’s the difference between that and England ? Nothing at all. The colour of skin and mode of combat is literally the only difference between inter tribe and inter race territorial conflict .
Yet 250 years later Australians are supposed to apologise and bow down .....for what ? I don’t see First Nations pondering their forcefully acquired territorial acquisitions from each other .
Always was , always will be .....pfftft. Killed and stole land off each other . Now the blood is all mixed up . We are all mongrels but somehow if you self identify as white you should apologise to someone who self identifies as black.....bullshit.
When are we going to see sorry marches for the time tribe X slaughtered tribe Y over territory and women ? Never....it’s all swept under the carpet cause there’s a white devil in town.
I’m out of here before the fuckstains start harping on about bigotry when the seperate entire black / white subjective treatment of murderous action is the ultimate bigotry. Different standards for different skin tones.....what garbage.
Self-identifies? You're sounding like Andrew Bolt now...
Reckon those warring blacks were into genocide?
Reckon they thought of each other as humans or vermin?
Were they pan-ethnic or of a wholly different culture?
TBH this all sounds like a vast overreach to ease a burden of guilt. Funny coming from you, but by the same token you're the first to say we shouldn't see colour, yet the most prolific commenter on colour.
You reckon they thought of each other as vermin ?
Oh, for fuck’s sake. They fucken murdered each other and you are concerned about their rationale ?
I’d guarantee there was tribal genocide. Kill the men , take the women like every single other branch of the human tree since time immemorial.
"TBH this all sounds like a vast overreach to ease a burden of guilt. Funny coming from you, but by the same token you're the first to say we shouldn't see colour, yet the most prolific commenter on colour."
Huzzah! The crux of the grubby archetype's matter and manner!
The new 'white man's burden'!
And it's gotta come from the boss here, Stu, otherwise ol' forelock tugger won't publicly recant, retract, reflect, respect, reconsider.
It's the (certain type of) Aussie way! Deeply embedded in the Settler psyche.
some info from the heart.
“Settler psyche “ .....will you please fucken off with that settler shit ?
If you’d have half a fucking brain you’d have understood what I’m saying....white land thieves are no different from black land thieves. The land belongs to the people who can hold it and defend it.
The black nations who are whining about settlers taking their land killed other people for it themselves whether acquiring or defending it .
Ain’t no fuvking birthright sacred land....the Earth doesn’t give a fuck who walks on it. We are all just temporary visitors and the land we call our own needs to be claimed in blood.
The thin veneer of civility wallpapering over the bloodthirsty truth of humanity through international laws and ordered society will come undone again here one day in the future and this whole current victimhood/ evil oppressor shit will be consigned to the other millions of years of brutality and territorial warfare.
Yes I am.
War is done within the bounds of custom and culture. The Aboriginals, even when warring, were part of a pan-racial project.
I haven't done enough reading on it, but I struggle to equate what they did to each other with what was ultimately done to them.