Submitted by overthefalls on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 07:38
It seems that discussions about racism get tangled up in various threads on this forum, so it would be more practical to have one thread dedicated to this complex, contentious issue.
What do you think about Netflix pulling Chris Lilley’s shows from their program? Even the ABC is looking into doing the same.
I guess Tropic Thunder will be in the crosshairs as well soon.
You can't go full retard...
I'm not cheap,
But I'm free.
Everything is in the cross hairs now.
Is that real change or window dressing?
I don't deny racism exists, at all.
All I have to do is walk down the Main Street. Lennox used to be an important initiation site, very significant bora ring. Number of indigenous people here now= zero.
They, along with most of the Ballina crew got herded up and shipped out to Cabbage tree island. Or pushed off the edge of cliffs.
Same with Byron, herded up, a few stragglers allowed to live in camps on the edge of town.
yes racism exists, all across the world unfortunatly...
learning to live together is how you address it, finding common ground, that which unites us. not by fostering more and more division, which seems to be the only trick current advocates and activists have in their bag
the book burners have gone full retard, full blown full retard...
which is one of the best ways possible to isolate the people you actually need to educate and win over
all kinds of dumb going on this debate, yeh it feels good to be 'right', and it mighit give you a little dopermine hit everytime you 'correct' something, ...'correct' somebody... but I think some serious self reflection is required right about now, about what it is you are actually achieving...
and what is your goal?
the advocates and activists are so bubbled up, so bunkered down, so feverish and righteous, that they cannot see the decades of good work they are currently unravelling indulging in this ongoing humungous hissy fit
they're getting plenty of 'hits' on the social meeds tho...
so that's a win...
sypkan, there's simply no turning some of the gronks on this site around. Despite their denials, their racism runs seriously deep.
I post on this site to highlight what a miserable pack of arseholes full on racists are. If that persuades even one person not to take the road to Gronkville, then that's a win.
Holding deep prejudice to excuse people's own failings, is a truly shit way to go through life.
PS Lilley's work hasn't aged well. I suspect that's also a reason why it was pulled from Netflix. Pulling Faulty Tower's "Don't mention the War" episode is ridiculous.
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
So hot right now
that's bullshit viclocal, indod doesn't have a racist bone in his body
some pretty simplistic even ignorant views? yeh maybe...
a tendency to conservative viewpoints? sometimes...
you get a bee in your bonnet about difference of opinion and world view, that bee buzzes you out so much you cannot see the flowers for the poo
chris lillee was pure genius his first season or two
even his later work was genius occasionally, he breaks barriers and allows people to relate
aside from blackface, I honestly don't see anything racist about his work, and even blackface wasn't an issue at the time, which should tell you something...
there's lots of things that don't age well, it's called time
I hope they don't pull Dave Chappelle doing whiteface and parodying honkys.
That is comedy gold.
(can I say gold, or am i being colourist?)
If Chris Lilley's work is racist because of the way he represents Jonah from Tonga, does that mean it is homophobic in its depiction of Mr G, or sexist in its portrayal of Ja'mie? I always thought his comedy involved satirising social stereotypes, not reinforcing or perpetuating them. Most viewers know that Chris Lilley's fictional characters do not represent entire social groups. Is The Simpsons next to go for its portrayal of Apu, the Indian convenience store owner? Or Fawlty Towers for its depiction of Manuel, the Spanish waiter? Are we heading towards the point that it is not acceptable for an artist to portray people from another group? Where do you draw the line in art so that you don't cause offence and get accused of racism?
Some whiny loser already got rid of Apu from the Simpsons , despite the show lampooning everyone equally so that allegations of racism or impropriety are completely ridiculous. Australians got painted as simple , drunken folk with a penchant for corporal punishment . It’s comedy FFS.
In a few years it’ll be considered gender violence to dress in drag.
Football’s Mad Mondays of days gone by will be an endless source of grovelling apologies and public recriminations.
Makes you wonder how Milo Kerrigan would go down nowadays??
Havent even bothered to read the other post:
But on the indigenous aspect.
Personally i think there is a new type of division that is now a bigger problem than racism being fuelled by certain areas of society.
It seems there are those that want to keep people divided and fuel these issues and keep that wedge between us and them instead of just making it us and coming together as one.
It's those that never look forward and always look back, those that always want to paint indigenous people as victims and keep hammering it into them that they are a product of their past like they are trapped there and we are here above you with our white privilege, something you can never have because you are not white. (although apparently my wife still also has this white privilege even with brown skin?)
But at the same time they say don't worry I'm here to save you, with their virtue signalling look at me im a saviour act, which in reality is all about them, yeah okay maybe their heart is possibly in the right place, unless political motivated but the reality is they are part of the problem
It's a weird thing it's almost like a patronising new form of low level racism.
Expectations are also put on indigenous people by them, that they must think like this or that and if they dont they are not truely indigenous or traitors or coconuts people like Jacinta Price deal with this view daily both from her own people and non indigenous people..
There also seems to be a common expectation among some that indigenous people must embrace their culture, they cant just be like you and me who just lives their life and aren't expected to embrace their ethnicity, culture etc (think about it, do you embrace your ethnicity or culture?)
Same with leaving ones traditional land and embracing western culture this is often viewed as a negative thing or culture destroying, almost like we want to preserve something like it's part of a museum exhibit that we as non indigenous can feel good about preserving.
Then there is the growing idea that assimilation is a dirty word, when all it is really is coming together as one, but off course some will even say, but that view is an expectation that our lifestyle is the right one.
IMHO that view is also dangerous and will only keep many indigenous people trapped in a cycle of social economic disadvantage, which leads to most problems many indigenous people face.
IMHO that whole above mentality needs to change end of the day you need to basically say, we can help so far, as our government and organisations do with huge spending to try to give a hand to narrow the gap, be it health, education, arts, sports, you name it.
But end of the day the hard reality is indigenous people and their communities need to also make change themselves, most of it cant be made by others, the same goes for anyone that needs to make change like a alcoholic or gambler etc, you can help to a certain point, but end of the day it's up to the individual to create real change.
Anyway this is fitting from Anthony dillion an indigenous person
And a great little recent related interview from Jacinta some of it along similar lines (no idea who the guy is)
Apu was pretty much the most intelligent, hardest working character on the Simpsons, he was a solid husband and father and had a tight-knit family.
Successful first-generation immigrant with a greater knowledge of his new country than the bozos who live there.
And people squealed that he was portrayed badly??
Just no pleasing some people who have a pole up their arse.
All you do is whinge... post after post of aggrieved whinging. All day, every day.
Where's blindboy now we need him?
How's that "let's pretend racism isn't a major problem" attitude working out?https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-12/asio-briefing-warns-far-right-is-...
And I've got a little bit more free advice: the situation is much worse in the USA, and unless people stand up to these shit human beings, things are only going to get worse.
yep just saw that on abc
once again the problem is your definitions viclocal
in explaining 'the rise of far right groups', a large part of it was about 5G networks
far right extremism?
anti china sentiment?
the ip left's new buzz term, so obviously spruiked and distributed, replacing the worn out old slur of 'racism'
any real white supremecy is a minute twisted ignored irrelevant sliver of noise anongst a wider debate about immigration that hasn't been permitted, and some lose their shit over both...
it would seem conflating white supremecy with a heap of rabid pressing arguments running at the moment would be a great way to lose all of them
If a white person doesn’t claim that the entirety of White people are racist it’s cause they’re a white supremacist.
If a white person claims that the entirety of White people are racist then it’s an admission of white supremacy thinking.
That’s truly how these retards think.
If I was to say that I’m proud to be Australian ....I’d be accused of being a White supremacist. .......bizarre.
To be fair blowin, I've never consider you to be a pure white supremacist. I've always put you in the bog standard racist with shit for brains category.
How do you characterise yourself Vic?
Oh and Sypkan, the anti 5G nutters are from all walks of life and across the political spectrum. I can hardly be held account for the ABC's mistake. Not that you didn't try.
All that of course doesn't change the fact that ASIO are taking the rise of Right Wing nutters very seriously. 50 dead people in Christchurch at the hands of an Australian right wing nutter is a pretty good reason don't you think?
How do you characterise yourself Vic?
Someone who doesn't like racists or racism and is happy to call it out. I go into bat for those who are discriminated against. Happy to punch up, never down. I know that's a big crime for the gronks on this site, but hey, badge of honour getting abused by those racists dogs.
5G nutters is a part of their increase in 'far right extremists'. this is how they got numbers, same with a raise in anti china sentiment
some very loose all encompassing shit going on there, ...again.. some massaging, ...lies and statistics and all that...
50 people in christchurch, a tragedy, but it was hardly surprising
that nutter could be described as left wing nutter, he was an environmentalist, his politics was all over the shop, as is often the case these days
racially motivated? yes
white supremecist? nah not really
Good for you champ.
Sypkan, you might take issue with Viclocals definitions, but ASIO is much better at assessing these things.
Their statements on the matter are as follows:
"COVID-19 restrictions are being exploited by extreme right-wing narratives that paint the state as oppressive, and globalisation and democracy as flawed and failing,"
"An extreme right-wing attack in Australia is plausible."
"While the threat of violence inspired by Islamic extremism remains ASIO's greatest concern, extreme right-wing groups and individuals represent a serious, increasing and evolving threat to security,"
"These groups are becoming increasingly ideological; more aware of and committed to specific dogmas, philosophies and views, many of which support or glorify violence."
While you might opine that: "any real white supremecy is a minute twisted ignored irrelevant sliver of noise"
ASIO sees it differently - and I'm inclined to listen to them instead of you.
"ASIO sees it differently - and I'm inclined to listen to them instead of you?"
Oh come on where's your sense of fun JQ? Let's not be bothered with experts in life and death situations. Let the untrained crackpots on Swellnet tell us what's what.
Vic, a quote I like (think it's from the HBO series Chernobyl - excellent BTW, highly recommend):
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth."
We see this borne out with Trumps approach to the Coronavirus. We will see it borne out on many fronts the longer he is in power. We will also see it locally amongst the hard right faction of the liberal/national parties who are very much into anti-intellectualism, preferring to make their own realities.
Great post from Jacinta price
"Given we are continually being denigrated as a nation and bombarded by accusations of racism and bigotry, I felt it wasn’t only necessary to defend my home and the country I love but to also provide the overwhelming evidence that demonstrates these accusations are lies. If we can’t have pride in our own nation how are we expected to evolve successfully? If we keep telling a particular demographic they are victims of others of a certain skin colour we are effectively removing that demographic’s agency and that, to me, is completely un-Australian.
Here is a list of our nation’s achievements toward Aboriginal Australia and dare I say there’s very likely a whole lot that I have missed but we have to start somewhere right?
1856 – In South Australia all Men including Aboriginal Men were given the right to vote.
1896 – In South Australia all Women including Aboriginal Women were given the right to vote, 32 years before Women in England were given that right.
1948 – It is not well understood but no one in Australia was an Australian Citizen up until this year. We were regarded as British Subjects until the Citizenship Act was passed. Citizenship Rights were being extended to Aboriginal Australians gradually throughout the 1950’s and 1960’s by Coalition Governments’.
1962 – Aboriginal Australians were granted the Right to Vote by a Coalition Government.
1964 – Aboriginal Australians were virtually granted full Citizenship Rights under a Coalition Government when the Aboriginal Ordinance was repealed.
1967 – The Referendum went through with overwhelming support of well over 90% of Australians voting to allow Aboriginal Australians to be included in the Census and for Aboriginal Affairs to become a Commonwealth responsibility. Another successful Coalition Government initiative.
1968 - The Equal Pay decision was applied by a Coalition Government.
1970 - A state Coalition Government in Victoria handed back the Lake Tyers reserve to the Aboriginal community.
1971 - Senator Neville Bonner, a Liberal, became our first Aboriginal Parliamentarian. Since then there have been 43 Aboriginal MP’s throughout state and federal Parliaments in Australia. To add to this 8 MP’s have recorded Aboriginal Ancestry but have not been identified as Aboriginal. The Northern Territory gave us the first and only Government, at any level, led by an Indigenous Australian. This is not widely known or celebrated because Chief Minister Adam Giles was with the Country Liberal Party.
1976 – The NT Land Rights Act was passed by a Coalition Government. Under this Act around 45% of the land and 80% of the coastline of the NT has been handed back to traditional owners, I’m one of them.
1992 – The High Court overturned the Principal of Terra Nullius with the Mabo Decision.
1993 – A Labor Government passed the Native Title Act.
In Australia today we have experienced historically significant acts of symbolism that include the 1991 Reconciliation Walk Across Sydney Harbour Bridge. For six hours 250,000 Australians of all backgrounds walked together to demonstrate the fact we are not racist but are overwhelmingly in support of Aboriginal Australia. We have spent a week every year since commemorating this event and what it means.
A Labor Prime Minister said ‘Sorry’ on May 26th 1998 in recognition of the impact of the policies of forcible removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families. These days and others are commemorated every year to recognise historical injustices and to demonstrate that everyday Australians DO care for the plight of Indigenous Australians.
We spend days and weeks each year recognising Aboriginal Australia in the following ways:
National Apology Day
National Sorry Day
National Close the Gap Day
Anniversary of the Referendum
Coming of the Light
National Aboriginal and Islander Childrens’ Day
International Day of the worlds Indigenous Peoples
Indigenous Literacy Day
Anniversary of the UN Declaration of Human Rights of Indigenous People
Throughout Australia ‘Welcome to Country’ or ‘Recognition of Country’ is applied as standard ritual practice before events, meetings and social gatherings by governments, corporates, institutions, primary schools, kindergartens, high schools, universities, work places, music festivals, gallery openings, conferences, and so on and so forth.
Aboriginal Australia is a part of the daily life of us all in some way shape or form and yet we are still facing accusations of racism in our nation. We have been hoodwinked into believing that somehow reconciliation means appeasing the aggrieved, those who refuse to forgive, and we are held to ransom every time the goal posts are shifted.
The good will and support of the Australian people is always on display and it has only gathered momentum along the way.
It’s time now to recognise the efforts of thousands of Australians throughout our history who have done what was in their power to support Aboriginal Australia including those who are not Aboriginal but who call us family. It’s time to recognise that we cannot possibly be a racist country if over 87% of people who identify as Aboriginal in non-remote areas of Australia are in fact married to non-Aboriginal Australians.
We must also remember that our nation is not only simply black and white. We are rich with the contribution of Australians of many backgrounds and this is one of our greatest strengths as a nation. What of the 30% of Australians who were born overseas, from every country on earth. Are they all racist too?
It’s time to stop feeding into a narrative that promotes racial divide, a narrative that claims to try to stamp out racism but applies racism in doing so and encourages a racist over reaction. Yes, it is time for some truth telling.
We should be celebrating what we have achieved together before the good will of the nation runs out."
Bess Price, Jacinta's mother and a true example of what is possible from being born under a tree in the remote outback to politician (pic from above FB post)
Born in Yuendumu, her first language is Warlpiri. She also knows Luritja, Western Arrernte and Anmatyerre. Price lived in humpies (traditional Aboriginal dwellings) until she was nine and became a mother at thirteen years of age. A victim of domestic violence, she left the father of her child when she was 19 and began studying to be a teacher.
She attained a Bachelor of Applied Science in Aboriginal Community Management and Development from Curtin University and has worked in education and training, public administration, the media, community development, interpreting, translating and language teaching and has experience in small business management. With her husband Dave Price, she is a partner with Jajirdi Consultants working in cross cultural awareness training, community liaison and Warlpiri language services.
The Northern Territory Labor Government appointed Price as Chairperson of its Indigenous Affairs Advisory Council (IAAC). The Council was set up to provide advice and make recommendations regarding the implementation and further development of the Closing the Gap and Working Future agendas and assist the Northern Territory Government to engage with Indigenous people. In November 2011, Price announced her retirement from the Indigenous Advisory Council and intention to stand for the Country Liberal Party in the Northern Territory election of 25 August 2012 for the Central Australian seat of Stuart against her nephew, Labor MP Karl Hampton. She was elected with a swing of 18%.
She was nominated in 2012 for the US International Women of Courage Award.
On 9 September 2013, she was named Minister for Community Services, Parks and Wildlife, Statehood and Women's Policy in the Northern Territory government. On 12 Dec 2014, she was appointed additionally Minister for Local Government, and on 10 Feb 2015 also Minister for Housing. She lost office at the Northern Territory election of 27 August 2016.
Her paintings were exhibited in Sydney in 2017.
Price's daughter, Alice Springs town councillor Jacinta Price, was the Country Liberal candidate for the seat of Lingiari in the 2019 federal election.
Oh , for Gods sake, JQ.
You’d think lying had only been invented in 2017. And has taken politicians of all manner by surprise. Let alone the media.
The breathtaking frequency and sheer outlandishness of the lies is a new thing in recent history for a relatively democratic and relatively free country. That has somewhat taken people by surprise.
Not to mention the sheer pettiness and stupidity of some of them.
More stupid than crazed Mexicans with reefer madness primed to overrun the US ?
More outlandish than weapons of mass destruction ?
More petty than a blowjob not constituting sex with a woman ?
Come on , mate.
FWIW I have found Vic Local’s contributions to these SN forums to be refreshing, well intentioned & there’s no denying he’s a straight shooter. What I find surprising is the people that are willing to fully rip into Vic Local (some nasty shit) but continue to indulge the likes of Indo Dreaming as if there’s nothing to see here. Unconscious bias maybe....
Jacinta makes good points, but steers it to a clearly partisan goal by refusing to concede racism does exist in Australia. I don't think we have anywhere near the problem with racism as the US does, indeed I think on the most part we're quite good as a country.
But it certainly does exist and people certainly do suffer because of it.
It's ironic for Jacinta to bemoan people stoking division, but this is exactly what her post does. She firmly stakes out her partisan lines by refusing to even acknowledge the truth at the core of other peoples arguments.
I don't dispute there's a threat, the threat is a product of globalisation and technology and is somewhat natural really. the threat blew up and has steadily risen since sep 11 arguably. its changed and morphed, but its all a direct result of a more integrated world
how you deal with that more integrated world is what matters, and that's at the heart of all this and what people are questioning
grouping a healthy growing distrust of current globalisation and its corrupted institutions with white supremercy ain't exactly winning hearts and minds...
add china to the mix, and the globalists just look plain dumb and purely ideoligically driven
the sliver of white supremecist noise J refer to is about the actual influence such radical ideas have, which is practically none in modern australia
Ok, Blowin - how would you characterise Trumps flat out (and utterly pointless) lie that his inauguration was the most watched or most attended. What ever it was exactly, It was so easily demonstrably false and so utterly petty and pointless. He was given the opportunity to step back from it, but no, he doubled down and we were gifted with the phrase 'alternative facts'.
Rabbits....Indo doesn’t want to restrict people’s abilities to discuss their opinions to his narrow definition of acceptable perspectives.
That’s the difference.
It’s one thing to reject the opinions of others , it’s another to claim that others shouldn’t be allowed to hold those opinions and certainly not openly discuss them.
That’s what’s known as fascism.
That and there’s the fact that he’s a fuckwit .
Oh Sypkan, I wasn't aware you had such a deep and thorough understanding of ASIO's methods of classification.
yeh i rip into viclocal because his obtuse self righteous blind faith is frustrating as fuck
its like debating with a jahovah witness
JQ....I’d call it embarrassing as much as anything else. It was utterly unacceptable from a president . But then....he’s immediately battling a collusive MSM who wants to delegitimise his tenure before its began so , being an unstable unit, he’s overcompensated.
JQ....what about the Russiagate thing for a lie ? We here in polite company aren’t supposed to believe in conspiracy theories but we are truly meant to accept that Donald Trump is President because Vladimir Putin mind fucked vulnerable Americans into voting him in so that Putin could .....what exactly ? I was never certain just what Putin was meant to gain from it ? Access to Trump tower maybe ?
Anyway.....The Vietnam war was a lie. The Invasion of Iraq was a lie . Hillary Clinton said she dodged bullets on a tarmac .....you want me to go on ?
Children overboard FFS. No GST never ever ! Core ad non core promises.
Nothings changed except for the fact that the MSM wants Trump gone so they highlight his actual lies and then make up others.
I'm a big boy and can handle the abuse. Wear it as a badge of honour considering where it comes from.
In the few months since lock down, I've made hundreds of posts about racism, all backed up with evidence. I made one minor mistake and corrected the record 10 minutes later. That's the standard I hold myself too.
Compared that to the straw-manning, bullshit facts, and fucking embarrassing sources by the gronks, and I'm pretty comfortable how others will see this debate.
I generally enjoy reading most of the forum threads & find them informative & at times fukn hilarious. When they turn into out n out abuse I tend to tune out a bit. Having a variety of different punters contributing is great stuff. However when some punters get fairly called out for whatever reason but others don’t, it’ fukn reeks. So, sort of in keeping with the topic of being discriminatory, these things can start from subtle beginnings. Cheers.
“Jacinta makes good points, but steers it to a clearly partisan goal by refusing to concede racism does exist in Australia”
JQ if you listen to what she says in the link Indo put up earlier you will hear her say there IS racism in Australia however it is not as bad as what some make it out to be. Her main point is that it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to not succeed or progress through life.
All she is doing is pointing out facts that aren’t obvious to many, half of what she wrote I didn’t know about until I just read it then because it hasn’t been broadcasted to the same extent as the constant stream of negative stereotypes. Hardly stoking division, if anything she is bringing a bit of balance to the debate.
Quite a nice change really. If anyone else of white skin had said the things she does they would be / have been called a racist.
PM: "There was NO Slavery in Australia!"
"I've always said we've got to be Honest about our Our History!"
PM later offered a gutless apology that fell well short of half decent.
Recent racial equality news series by SBS.
PM: "There was NO Slavery in Australia!"
It's a staggering statement, borne out of sheer ignorance.
I'd even go so far as saying it's wilful ignorance. Smoko has this weird euro-centric view of Australian history where facts don't matter. Remember he also said Captain Cook circumnavigated the country.
I also get the feeling smoko is keen to deny slavery from a couple of generations ago so he doesn't need to confront indentured labor of today. Many foreigners who come to Australia for agricultural work are treated like absolute shit. Smoko doesn't want to discuss it, because the people who are doing the exploiting are "salt of the earth" farmers who are lifters who "get a go because they 'ave a go".
And those Euro backpackers working for peanuts in surf schools to extend their visas? is that a version of modern day slavery? Not quite blackbirding but history may take a different view.