All Things Religion Thread

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Balance started the topic in Sunday, 29 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm

Here you go optimist

Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...

But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!

So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like

You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...

maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here

Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain

All the best...brother

PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 4:40pm

"All the other gods are not merely inferior to Jehovah. In most cases they are nonexistent​—strictly figments of human imagination. The Bible refers to these gods as “the product of the hands of man . . . , which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.” (Deuteronomy 4:28) The Bible plainly teaches that Jehovah is the only true God."

If you believe in another god, it's a figment of your imagination.

Now that's arrogance.

udo's picture
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udo Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 5:25pm

brutus said :
Udo still here , how's those altar boys going?
-----------------------
You called brutus....
Yes im here and you accuse me of Trolling you...you silly old Fool
I dont Troll you - im outing you as a not very nice human that hides behind some sort of Born Again Religious Wank ...are trying to deflect again ?

Did you call me out for my for my Altar Boy joke
Hmm you Trolled me over it 6 times that i can recall although it was probably many more asking if i stand by it...i never answered did i ?
But since you really want to know
Of course i stand by it 100%
- its a joke you Fool.. Bad Taste fuck Yeah it sure was
Your come back was you were upset because you were an Altar Boy so i can only presume you got done ....and Bad things were / had been going on at Ballarat Diocese which has f all to do with me
Seek some counselling it will help.

I still have a Screenshot here of your Vile Disgusting Spray to me you Posted and was going to share with you and others because a few weeks ago you did ask didnt you ?
and i said its wise to let it go..You probably should.

Optimist's picture
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Optimist Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 5:25pm

Isaiah 44:8…Fear ye not…neither be troubled …have I not told you from that time and declared it…you are my witnesses..is there any God beside me?…yea there is no God…I know not of any…

AndyM's picture
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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 5:32pm
Optimist wrote:

Isaiah 44:8…Fear ye not…neither be troubled …have I not told you from that time and declared it…you are my witnesses..is there any God beside me?…yea there is no God…I know not of any…

Jeez, for an omnipotent god he sure is ignorant.

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Optimist Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 5:51pm

Matthew 12:37.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 6:51pm

I understand the words often quoted here about "the one true God" are in fact written in the bible. I also understand in the past mainstream Christian religions would have stridently preached that Jesus was the "one true God" but now have a more nuanced respectful position in recognition of good men and women of all faiths. The Pope has spoken about the commonalities of all faiths rather than highlight the historical strict tenets of Catholic faith. Many spiritual leaders have done likewise.

What distinguishes mainstream Christian religions from what we often hear here is the absolute faith (that's what we are talking about here (religious unproven faith) not modern or historical fact) that Jesus is the one and only God and by implication all other Gods are false and the followers of these false Gods can never be saved (whatever saved means).

This form of what I will term new wave Americanised religion likes to pick winners (those of faith) and losers (everyone else) and this need for absolute faith ties in rather neatly with their prosperity gospels where only people of true unquestioning faith receive "all of God's rewards". Not rewarded enough/yet look no further than your faith and how you don't believe enough.

Personally, I find this stated position of faith a mockery of what being a good person really means, its an extremist position not a typical christian position and "theologically" the very similar to the position taken by a Muslim terrorist using the strict literal meaning of the Koran as justification for his/her deeds.

So guys, for the sake of transparency which churches/preachers do you follow?

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 6:48pm

AndyM .....there is only one God , or do you believe there are many Gods?

AndyM wrote:

"Man's arrogance that I talk of, is not having a higher belief but believing that mans intellect has all the right answers."

Well if the disciples simply reported the word of the alleged One True God, then the alleged One True God must be guilty of hubris and arrogance in the face of there being other gods.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 6:52pm

There's that arrogance again that you supposedly were trying to shake.

Makes no sense.

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 7:02pm

Udo the troll , ir's pretty well established you live on SN , and yes I probably am a silly old fool in your world , but I don't hide from anyone , people know who I am here , not like you , which is fine with me as what I say on here can be used against me in public , so I still post and say what I think....you Udo are the one that hides and won't answer questions on what you post......I sorta get the idea you are some lonely wannabe , looking for fellowship on SN. Fine by me , but you continually troll , say stuff , disappear like nothings been said....you even admit on the altar boy joke...you still stand by your joke about boys being raped by priests....got any jokes about niggers?
Post my disgusting rant against you....whatever you thinks right, and yeah I can see you think religion is a wank.......but have the balls to at least be able discuss what you post , and not just snipe with gutless snide comments!
I don;t deflect you do I am open to any discussion...

udo wrote:

brutus said :
Udo still here , how's those altar boys going?
-----------------------
You called brutus....
Yes im here and you accuse me of Trolling you...you silly old Fool
I dont Troll you - im outing you as a not very nice human that hides behind some sort of Born Again Religious Wank ...are trying to deflect again ?

Did you call me out for my for my Altar Boy joke
Hmm you Trolled me over it 6 times that i can recall although it was probably many more asking if i stand by it...i never answered did i ?
But since you really want to know
Of course i stand by it 100%
- its a joke you Fool.. Bad Taste fuck Yeah it sure was
Your come back was you were upset because you were an Altar Boy so i can only presume you got done ....and Bad things were / had been going on at Ballarat Diocese which has f all to do with me
Seek some counselling it will help.

I still have a Screenshot here of your Vile Disgusting Spray to me you Posted and was going to share with you and others because a few weeks ago you did ask didnt you ?
and i said its wise to let it go..You probably should.

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Jelly Flater Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 7:34pm

Brutus : ‘there is only one god’

And again : ‘I am open to any discussion’

So… how is your belief true ?

And how is your interpretation or version of god actually any different to another’s ?

How are you able to affirm your imagined ideas as being anything beyond your intellect that is simply influenced and fed by the supposed ‘supernatural’ experiences of life ?

;)

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:03am

JF, we are discussing right now why there is one God.

There is ample evidence for my intellect, which I read/watch to prove the existence of Jesus. Hindus/Muslims all accept Jesus was real. History shows that Jesus existed and preached for 3 years . Muslims say he was a prophet and they believe in the same God as Christians but have Mohammed as their teacher.....

Life experiences has been a great teacher and seeing supernatural things for a big part of my life , makes you consider the possibility of a Creator/Higher power being possible......it's then when you study what facts are available which builds your faith!

Jelly Flater wrote:

Brutus : ‘there is only one god’

And again : ‘I am open to any discussion’

So… how is your belief true ?

And how is your interpretation or version of god actually any different to another’s ?

How are you able to affirm your imagined ideas as being anything beyond your intellect that is simply influenced and fed by the supposed ‘supernatural’ experiences of life ?

;)

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:05am

Andy M..that's the faith I have from reading /watching and educating myself with the facts at hand......that's why I ask you what do you believe in , and why?

AndyM wrote:

There's that arrogance again that you supposedly were trying to shake.

Makes no sense.

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:28am

GuySmiley. The Catholic Church/Pope don't represent to me the true Christian values that were set down in the Gospels...yes there has been a watering down of what you would call old values to suit,"the modern World"......the Dalai Lama changed his mind about gay marriage , so as a man he can change , but a law from a higher Power such as the Bible is set in Stone.
I don't see what good has been achieved in compromising a moral position , in fact I see the opposite, where we live in confusion and chaos now, with people very fragmented........communities becoming more fragmented....where is the moral glue of our lives?

So I see some of the so called religious institutions as being inherently evil because they try to become a middleman between God and the people....white evangelism comes to mind , where money and power rule the day like Hillsong.....the messages are there , but not the actions.

I don't go to a Church I have fellowship meeting with likeminded Christians.....some of the Preachers I follow are John Smith of God Squad fame...one of Australia's greatest Thinkers and practiced what he preached? Francis Chan is amazing as he lives what he preaches...quite a few more.....

GuySmiley wrote:

I understand the words often quoted here about "the one true God" are in fact written in the bible. I also understand in the past mainstream Christian religions would have stridently preached that Jesus was the "one true God" but now have a more nuanced respectful position in recognition of good men and women of all faiths. The Pope has spoken about the commonalities of all faiths rather than highlight the historical strict tenets of Catholic faith. Many spiritual leaders have done likewise.

What distinguishes mainstream Christian religions from what we often hear here is the absolute faith (that's what we are talking about here (religious unproven faith) not modern or historical fact) that Jesus is the one and only God and by implication all other Gods are false and the followers of these false Gods can never be saved (whatever saved means).

This form of what I will term new wave Americanised religion likes to pick winners (those of faith) and losers (everyone else) and this need for absolute faith ties in rather neatly with their prosperity gospels where only people of true unquestioning faith receive "all of God's rewards". Not rewarded enough/yet look no further than your faith and how you don't believe enough.

Personally, I find this stated position of faith a mockery of what being a good person really means, its an extremist position not a typical christian position and "theologically" the very similar to the position taken by a Muslim terrorist using the strict literal meaning of the Koran as justification for his/her deeds.

So guys, for the sake of transparency which churches/preachers do you follow?

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GuySmiley Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 9:09am

I see a person's faith as a private / personal relationship b/w them and their god and therefore none of my business. I'm only here because of the (very public and frequent) insistence that Jesus is the one (and only) true god. I'm happy for people to believe that if it helps create a meaningful spiritual life for them (none of my business really) but what I don't like is the public stating of it as if its an unquestionable fact. Its not fact its just your faith and good luck to you.

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 12:29pm

Guy Smiley , hey I understand where you are coming from....but just so you know as part of being a Christian is saving people spiritually , so publicly we try to help those who are not of Christ.....thus the quote, "Jesus saves".....if someone is physically injured , we would like to think we would help them...so when Christians see souls who are suffering and people who are lost....we we try to help them by introducing them to the spirituality of Jesus and God.

GuySmiley wrote:

I see a person's faith as a private / personal relationship b/w them and their god and therefore none of my business. I'm only here because of the (very public and frequent) insistence that Jesus is the one (and only) true god. I'm happy for people to believe that if it helps create a meaningful spiritual life for them (none of my business really) but what I don't like is the public stating of it as if its an unquestionable fact. Its not fact its just your faith and good luck to you.

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AndyM Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 12:32pm

"part of being a Christian is saving people spiritually"

I think that's the religious arrogance that I find so offensive.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 12:51pm
GuySmiley wrote:

I see a person's faith as a private / personal relationship b/w them and their god and therefore none of my business. I'm only here because of the (very public and frequent) insistence that Jesus is the one (and only) true god. I'm happy for people to believe that if it helps create a meaningful spiritual life for them (none of my business really) but what I don't like is the public stating of it as if its an unquestionable fact. Its not fact its just your faith and good luck to you.

I just spat out half my lunch reading this, you spend half your time on Swellnet dissing Christianity.

And offcourse most religions if not all think their god is the only one and want to make it known, who cares, its only a problem when a religion then goes on to say in their teachings that non believer's or those of another religion should be killed and the odd crazy person/people follow that.

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 12:52pm

AndyM how can you be offended by something you don't believe in , unless you subscribe to another God ?
You can't save anyone that doesn't want be saved?

AndyM wrote:

"part of being a Christian is saving people spiritually"

I think that's the religious arrogance that I find so offensive.

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TwsitedDrifter Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 1:30pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:

I see a person's faith as a private / personal relationship b/w them and their god and therefore none of my business. I'm only here because of the (very public and frequent) insistence that Jesus is the one (and only) true god. I'm happy for people to believe that if it helps create a meaningful spiritual life for them (none of my business really) but what I don't like is the public stating of it as if its an unquestionable fact. Its not fact its just your faith and good luck to you.

I just spat out half my lunch reading this, you spend half your time on Swellnet dissing Christianity.

And offcourse most religions if not all think their god is the only one and want to make it known, who cares, its only a problem when a religion then goes on to say in their teachings that non believer's or those of another religion should be killed and the odd crazy person/people follow that.

Because its unarguable that the God of Abraham, Jews, Islam and Christianity is the only God that is a fact. all those Gods of Hindus like Shiva and the like are all fake anyone who follows them will burn in hell.How do i know this? because my bible says so and so does my priest who used to invesitagate my penis in the confession booths on Friday afternoons back at school.He never found anything but thought he'd do the nice thing anyway and he also made me grab his penis too, not sure why he just needed someone to investigate his itchiness i guess.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 1:49pm
TwsitedDrifter wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:

I see a person's faith as a private / personal relationship b/w them and their god and therefore none of my business. I'm only here because of the (very public and frequent) insistence that Jesus is the one (and only) true god. I'm happy for people to believe that if it helps create a meaningful spiritual life for them (none of my business really) but what I don't like is the public stating of it as if its an unquestionable fact. Its not fact its just your faith and good luck to you.

I just spat out half my lunch reading this, you spend half your time on Swellnet dissing Christianity.

And offcourse most religions if not all think their god is the only one and want to make it known, who cares, its only a problem when a religion then goes on to say in their teachings that non believer's or those of another religion should be killed and the odd crazy person/people follow that.

Because its unarguable that the God of Abraham, Jews, Islam and Christianity is the only God that is a fact. all those Gods of Hindus like Shiva and the like are fake all anyone who follows them will burn in hell.How do i know this? because my bible says so and so does my priest who used to invesitagate my penis in the confession booths on Friday afternoons back at school.He never found anything but thought he'd do the nice thing anyway and he also made me grab his penis too, not sure why he just needed someone to investigate his itchiness i guess.

Off course all religions believe they hold the truth and their god is the only god.

It doesn't make much sense for a religion to say, if you want to get to heaven you can choose to follow our god, or hey these other gods and teachings will also get you there, pick whatever one you like.

Kind of goes against the whole idea of religion, plus if one religion is saying any religion will get you there, then you would be silly to pick that one, better to go for one that says they are the only way and increase your odds of picking a good one.

BTW Plus if Christianity said pick any god, it's all good they all get you too heaven, im picking Islam the 72 virgins on offer sounds like a lot of work but still kind of sounds fun.

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stunet Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 1:44pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Off course all religions believe they hold the truth and their god is the only god.

It doesn't make much sense for a religion to say, if you want to get to heaven you can choose to follow our god, or hey these other gods and teachings will also get you there, pick whatever one you like.

Kind of goes against the whole idea of religion.

The Dalai Lama would disagree.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 2:05pm
stunet wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Off course all religions believe they hold the truth and their god is the only god.

It doesn't make much sense for a religion to say, if you want to get to heaven you can choose to follow our god, or hey these other gods and teachings will also get you there, pick whatever one you like.

Kind of goes against the whole idea of religion.

The Dalai Lama would disagree.

Yeah thats why i said in my first comment "most" and no all cause Buddhism and Hinduism can be a little different.

Hinduism has lots of gods and Buddhism is kind of a bit more fuzzy on what it is exactly is religion or philosophy or both.

I dont know if thats completely true though as my understanding is Buddhist don't believe in gods as such or heaven, my understanding is buddhism is more about becoming a good/best person possible in this life and then you will come back in another life in a more blessed position.

So i would expect the Dalai Lama doesnt think other religions have the answer as such and their followers are going to heaven etc, but more that other religions can also be a positive path to becoming a good/better person, so maybe they/he might believe they still get a better life for trying type thing

Thats my understanding.

BTW. love the Dalai Lama though.

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GuySmiley Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 2:12pm

beat me to it @stu, there is a buddhist saying "don't seek what is not freely given" or words to that effect.

@info, I don't need to defend myself here my position is clear, I try hard to respect all religious/spiritual/indigenous dreaming belief in men and women of good faith. It's hypocrisy I dislike in religion, politics and in public life and hence my comments about evangelism, Hillsong, Houston, Pell, Abbott and Scotty etc.

@brutus, you will understand that your last post isn't something I can ever agree with; but its your trip. You recommended Songlines to me which I have just started, its an excellent read thus far, thanks. I have just reread Soul Food by Jack Kornfield. Cheers.

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AndyM Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 7:02pm
brutus wrote:

AndyM how can you be offended by something you don't believe in , unless you subscribe to another God ?
You can't save anyone that doesn't want be saved?

AndyM wrote:

"part of being a Christian is saving people spiritually"

I think that's the religious arrogance that I find so offensive.

Brutus I don’t think you’re understanding me.
This discussion is about diminishing man’s arrogance by means of religion.
So far you’ve shown that religion does just the opposite.
I’m saying that your presumption that other people need to be saved is arrogant and offensive.
Could be that you’re judging them as you’ve judged yourself.

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:29pm

Hi AndyM..it's very clear....it's not me judging , it's very clear what Jesus says and preaches in the Gospels , that the only way to God is by accepting Jesus as your saviour who died on the cross for man's sins....not me , but the Law!
So man's arrogance is not relevant when you abide by Gods Laws and the Gospels....man's arrogance is when man thinks his thoughts and actions supercede the teachings of the gospels....has man got it so together that he has now the knowledge and actions to create abetter world. Rhetorical question...no!

AndyM wrote:
brutus wrote:

AndyM how can you be offended by something you don't believe in , unless you subscribe to another God ?
You can't save anyone that doesn't want be saved?

AndyM wrote:

"part of being a Christian is saving people spiritually"

I think that's the religious arrogance that I find so offensive.

Brutus I don’t think you’re understanding me.
This discussion is about diminishing man’s arrogance by means of religion.
So far you’ve shown that religion does just the opposite.
I’m saying that your presumption that other people need to be saved is arrogant and offensive.
Could be that you’re judging them as you’ve judged yourself.

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AndyM Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:33pm

If you think you’re not judging then you’re delusional.

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:34pm

Stu , interesting you mention the Dalai Lama, he started of by chastising homosexuality and the changed .....so where is his moral compass, changes with the times?

S

stunet wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Off course all religions believe they hold the truth and their god is the only god.

It doesn't make much sense for a religion to say, if you want to get to heaven you can choose to follow our god, or hey these other gods and teachings will also get you there, pick whatever one you like.

Kind of goes against the whole idea of religion.

The Dalai Lama would disagree.

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brutus Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 8:36pm

Andy M , I am not judging just repeating what is written...God has judged !

AndyM wrote:

If you think you’re not judging then you’re delusional.

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groundswell Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 9:02pm

Well here's what killed off the Dinosaurs, not a global flood as some of you Christians keep saying.

https://bigthink.com/hard-science/cause-of-worst-mass-extinction-ever-fo...

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seeds Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 9:09pm

Nonsense! The Earth didn’t exist back then.

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AndyM Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 9:49pm
brutus wrote:

Andy M , I am not judging just repeating what is written...God has judged !

AndyM wrote:

If you think you’re not judging then you’re delusional.

So then you’re delusional?

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wax24 Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 11:53pm

I grew up Catholic. Was an altar boy. Loved all the pomp and circumstance. And incense. Went to a Catholic grade school, then a Catholic high school. The priests I encountered were a great group of guys, without exception. I realize that Catholic priests have molested altar boys. Makes sense and i don't deny it. Wasn't my experience. As i grew older i starting questioning things more. In my late 20s i stopped attending Mass. I would go on a hike in the redwoods, meditate under this one certain tree, come back home, and burn Frankensence and Myrrh incense so my place would smell like Church and just be quiet for the morning. Surfing has replaced that. I don't say "God" anymore. I use the term "Universe." I mean most of the same things as i did when i said "God" in my youth, and live by the principles i was raised with, which are all underpinned by the Catholic faith. I feel like "Universe" is so much more inclusive. I think organized dogmatic religion does some wonderful things. And some terrible ones. The whole "there's only one God... the one WE are giving you" mindset is ludicrous.

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wax24 Monday, 4 Apr 2022 at 11:59pm

And that mindset detracts from any humility i have been able to gather, which is a roadblock on any spiritual path. Save the saving. Walk your path. Stay in your lane.

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groundswell Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 5:42am
seeds wrote:

Nonsense! The Earth didn’t exist back then.

Classic you sound like twisted who i don't think is serious but could be.

wax24 wrote:

And that mindset detracts from any humility i have been able to gather, which is a roadblock on any spiritual path. Save the saving. Walk your path. Stay in your lane.

Got to agree with you there wax, i grew up a catholic with heavily religious grand parents and heavily religious father. When my younger brother was born my aunty drove us kids to the hospital and asked what should we name him? I said Jesus as i was only 5 or 6 years old and right into religion too.
My aunt would always remind me of that. So her daughter became religious too.
A couple years passed and i hear my mother say i don't believe there is a God, i was shocked and scared for her as i was sure she would burn in hell for her beliefs.
Then it occured to me that its all a load of bollocks trying to control the people, why would there be a God who demands money from people if he created the universe?

In indo i tolerate everyones religions as there are so many religious people and every region has a different religion, some believe they are only stories while some are more fundamentalists...Some who want you to marry into their family become a muslim and make them rich with Bule money.
I dont mind muslims they try to put a funny hat on your head and think they have converted you but they are harmless. There are a few radicals around such as in ujung genteng (turtles) but most of them pretty harmless and a far cry from what American redneck racists want you to believe about Muslims.
Maybe its the happy go lucky Indonesian blood rather than other countries where some Muslims are so anti USA, anti Australia.Whatever the case i think its good to have a tolerance to religion even if you are an atheist.
You couldn't go to indo,morocco or many countries with a bad attitude towards religions.

I just hope that one day people wake up before our species is wiped out, religion is holding progress back, specifically Islam where there have been zero nobel prizes awarded to Islamic people as far as i know due to the brainwashing and lack of science.Its just not relevent anymore.

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groundswell Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 6:19am

I was wrong 12 Muslims have won nobel prizes since 1901:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_Nobel_laureates

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TwsitedDrifter Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 7:39am
wikipedia wrote:

Seven of the thirteen laureates have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, while three have been for the sciencess

Only three for sciences? not a good ratio compared to Christianity between 1901-2000 about 65.4% of Nobel prize winners had Christian backgrounds.

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brutus Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 7:47am

AndyM , you say I am delusional because I believe in a God. Fair enough that's your opinion , based on your life....so what do you believe in.......secular humanist who believes in the inderent goodness of man or an atheist who believes in nothing at all...or??

AndyM wrote:
brutus wrote:

Andy M , I am not judging just repeating what is written...God has judged !

AndyM wrote:

If you think you’re not judging then you’re delusional.

So then you’re delusional?

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brutus Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 7:54am

hey God doesn't demand money off you. the churches/religions ask and control...it/s mans failings being shown......so when something occurred to you at such a young age , do you really think that your decision was based on Logic or?

Humility is constantly taught in the Bible

there have been quite a few examples of man creating his Utopian society and system based on his own wants and needs...whereas the society/civilization is based on the Bible!

groundswell wrote:
seeds wrote:

Nonsense! The Earth didn’t exist back then.

Classic you sound like twisted who i don't think is serious but could be.

wax24 wrote:

And that mindset detracts from any humility i have been able to gather, which is a roadblock on any spiritual path. Save the saving. Walk your path. Stay in your lane.

Got to agree with you there wax, i grew up a catholic with heavily religious grand parents and heavily religious father. When my younger brother was born my aunty drove us kids to the hospital and asked what should we name him? I said Jesus as i was only 5 or 6 years old and right into religion too.
My aunt would always remind me of that. So her daughter became religious too.
A couple years passed and i hear my mother say i don't believe there is a God, i was shocked and scared for her as i was sure she would burn in hell for her beliefs.
Then it occured to me that its all a load of bollocks trying to control the people, why would there be a God who demands money from people if he created the universe?

In indo i tolerate everyones religions as there are so many religious people and every region has a different religion, some believe they are only stories while some are more fundamentalists...Some who want you to marry into their family become a muslim and make them rich with Bule money.
I dont mind muslims they try to put a funny hat on your head and think they have converted you but they are harmless. There are a few radicals around such as in ujung genteng (turtles) but most of them pretty harmless and a far cry from what American redneck racists want you to believe about Muslims.
Maybe its the happy go lucky Indonesian blood rather than other countries where some Muslims are so anti USA, anti Australia.Whatever the case i think its good to have a tolerance to religion even if you are an atheist.
You couldn't go to indo,morocco or many countries with a bad attitude towards religions.

I just hope that one day people wake up before our species is wiped out, religion is holding progress back, specifically Islam where there have been zero nobel prizes awarded to Islamic people as far as i know due to the brainwashing and lack of science.Its just not relevent anymore.

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brutus Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 8:01am

wax 24........you actually grew up with the grounding of the teachings of the Gospel /Bible which was taught by a sect of Christianity called the Catholic church.

It seems over a period of time you that you left the Church and found another supernatural God called the Universe ....so the old question is who made the Universe , as if you have faith/belief in the Universe and your principles are Christian......seems like you outgrew Catholicism....??

wax24 wrote:

I grew up Catholic. Was an altar boy. Loved all the pomp and circumstance. And incense. Went to a Catholic grade school, then a Catholic high school. The priests I encountered were a great group of guys, without exception. I realize that Catholic priests have molested altar boys. Makes sense and i don't deny it. Wasn't my experience. As i grew older i starting questioning things more. In my late 20s i stopped attending Mass. I would go on a hike in the redwoods, meditate under this one certain tree, come back home, and burn Frankensence and Myrrh incense so my place would smell like Church and just be quiet for the morning. Surfing has replaced that. I don't say "God" anymore. I use the term "Universe." I mean most of the same things as i did when i said "God" in my youth, and live by the principles i was raised with, which are all underpinned by the Catholic faith. I feel like "Universe" is so much more inclusive. I think organized dogmatic religion does some wonderful things. And some terrible ones. The whole "there's only one God... the one WE are giving you" mindset is ludicrous.

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Jelly Flater Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 8:11am

Groundswell - atleast you corrected that Nobel peace prize gaffe ! ;)

And just to clear up the obvious ignorance - ‘Islam’ actually means ‘peace’ and translates to ‘submission to god’… Modern mainstream Islam (just like Christianity and Judaism) is corrupted and simply an institutional propaganda tool used to garner power and influence in political environments.

The obvious and glaring bias from christians makes sense here in the west simply due to cultural imprints. Religious beliefs are born from hearsay and speculation - it is how the individual chooses to align their personal condition with fantastical and other worldly stories from scriptures. The common thread of religion is in the implementation of an ‘insanity blocker’ by believers in order for them to (in their own mind) make sense of their perspective on reality…

Notice how in the instance of ppl such as brutus or floptimist (and many fervent ‘translators’ of religious texts) that there is a self appointed mechanism of supposed superiority and reason. Yet to anyone else it is insanity ;);)

Now, I’m not suggesting straight out insanity - pls do scroll back to the early pages of this thread to get flopti’s version of heaven and revelations etc for a good laugh tho!! I am suggesting, in brutus’ case anyway, that religious belief and interpretation is born from and exhibited through confusion and a perception of ‘life’ that does not align with reality. Hence the heavy reliance on ‘god’ to do the explaining ;)

If I can categorically state something which is not true yet truly believe it beyond all reason and factual evidence and then somehow pretend I am stating facts due to what I’ve read or seen - then that provides a powerful impetus and empowers one to feel more confident and happy about things in general. This can work for anyone bouncing back from hardship - whether it be years of drug abuse or encountering sickness etc or whatever… So, religion can serve a purpose when you are lost. It helps ppl make sense of and understand what they clearly don’t - about themselves personally and the outside world.

Just remember tho. This thread is ALL things religion ;) Strange that it keeps coming back to some Christian soapbox event with wild claims of ‘only jesus… only one god etc’

Christianity has borrowed and plagiarised already existing religious doctrine and pagan celebrations in order to gain/enforce popularity and mainstream acceptance. The historical ‘facts’ of the implementation of Christianity are steeped in genocide, torture, rape, slavery and colonial invasion. These are FACTS. Yet any good ol internet preacher still wishes to bypass this reality and pretend to focus on a book which is simply the greatest fairy tale ever invented. If you wish to take it literally and pretend you have some divinely appropriated take on life then do it - but pls realise it is not the ‘only’ way. The arrogance and posturing and inability to answer questions directly and honestly just reflects how religious ppl are purely dependent on second hand ‘information’ and rely on other sources as a means to do their explaining. It’s a juvenile and flawed way to think you have something profound to offer. Your direct experience of things are a much clearer and useful means of expression. This burns away the falsehood, exaggerations, fantasies and outright lies ;)

It’s no different to car ppl squabbling over Ford and Holden ;);)
I mean, some ppl swear on one - and some are only true to the other…
Some really need that car to get somewhere! Sometimes it gets u there and sometimes it doesn’t ;) Sometimes u get there super quick and sometimes you won’t ever arrive due to the car being faulty or outside conditions that affect it ;)
Sometimes ppl can’t even drive! ;)
Some chose not to and that is their choice too ;)

And some ppl don’t even need cars ;)
Some don’t even want them coz they may use alternate means ;)
Some ppl modify their cars and brands and colours to suit their purpose ;)

Some ppl also realise it’s not about the car or the brand or the colour.
Even if some of those cars seem to be divinely inspired!

But, like religions… they’re man made ;)
Every now and then someone invents a new one too!

And… I’m guessing some people place particular importance or existential value on their ‘car’ …

- I’m also guessing tho… somebody gotta b in the driver’s seat ;)

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udo Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 8:22am

Brilliant.

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brutus Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 8:53am

Jelly ..how much have you studied the Bible , the facts that are in the Bible and you obviously have some knowledge as how could you criticize and call Christians having a sense of superiority and reasons?
You say I am confused and where my perception of life does not align with reality...

My question to you is pretty simple...how do you see the Worlds current reality and do you believe in anything ?

You seem quite critical of all the historical injustices , and blame religion, which is very convenient , you do not understand or haven't read /educated your self and the positives that have happened...and seem to dismiss historical accounts of the Bible as just fantasy...when quite the opposite is true.

Jelly Flater wrote:

Groundswell - atleast you corrected that Nobel peace prize gaffe ! ;)

And just to clear up the obvious ignorance - ‘Islam’ actually means ‘peace’ and translates to ‘submission to god’… Modern mainstream Islam (just like Christianity and Judaism) is corrupted and simply an institutional propaganda tool used to garner power and influence in political environments.

The obvious and glaring bias from christians makes sense here in the west simply due to cultural imprints. Religious beliefs are born from hearsay and speculation - it is how the individual chooses to align their personal condition with fantastical and other worldly stories from scriptures. The common thread of religion is in the implementation of an ‘insanity blocker’ by believers in order for them to (in their own mind) make sense of their perspective on reality…

Notice how in the instance of ppl such as brutus or floptimist (and many fervent ‘translators’ of religious texts) that there is a self appointed mechanism of supposed superiority and reason. Yet to anyone else it is insanity ;);)

Now, I’m not suggesting straight out insanity - pls do scroll back to the early pages of this thread to get flopti’s version of heaven and revelations etc for a good laugh tho!! I am suggesting, in brutus’ case anyway, that religious belief and interpretation is born from and exhibited through confusion and a perception of ‘life’ that does not align with reality. Hence the heavy reliance on ‘god’ to do the explaining ;)

If I can categorically state something which is not true yet truly believe it beyond all reason and factual evidence and then somehow pretend I am stating facts due to what I’ve read or seen - then that provides a powerful impetus and empowers one to feel more confident and happy about things in general. This can work for anyone bouncing back from hardship - whether it be years of drug abuse or encountering sickness etc or whatever… So, religion can serve a purpose when you are lost. It helps ppl make sense of and understand what they clearly don’t - about themselves personally and the outside world.

Just remember tho. This thread is ALL things religion ;) Strange that it keeps coming back to some Christian soapbox event with wild claims of ‘only jesus… only one god etc’

Christianity has borrowed and plagiarised already existing religious doctrine and pagan celebrations in order to gain/enforce popularity and mainstream acceptance. The historical ‘facts’ of the implementation of Christianity are steeped in genocide, torture, rape, slavery and colonial invasion. These are FACTS. Yet any good ol internet preacher still wishes to bypass this reality and pretend to focus on a book which is simply the greatest fairy tale ever invented. If you wish to take it literally and pretend you have some divinely appropriated take on life then do it - but pls realise it is not the ‘only’ way. The arrogance and posturing and inability to answer questions directly and honestly just reflects how religious ppl are purely dependent on second hand ‘information’ and rely on other sources as a means to do their explaining. It’s a juvenile and flawed way to think you have something profound to offer. Your direct experience of things are a much clearer and useful means of expression. This burns away the falsehood, exaggerations, fantasies and outright lies ;)

It’s no different to car ppl squabbling over Ford and Holden ;);)
I mean, some ppl swear on one - and some are only true to the other…
Some really need that car to get somewhere! Sometimes it gets u there and sometimes it doesn’t ;) Sometimes u get there super quick and sometimes you won’t ever arrive due to the car being faulty or outside conditions that affect it ;)
Sometimes ppl can’t even drive! ;)
Some chose not to and that is their choice too ;)

And some ppl don’t even need cars ;)
Some don’t even want them coz they may use alternate means ;)
Some ppl modify their cars and brands and colours to suit their purpose ;)

Some ppl also realise it’s not about the car or the brand or the colour.
Even if some of those cars seem to be divinely inspired!

But, like religions… they’re man made ;)
Every now and then someone invents a new one too!

And… I’m guessing some people place particular importance or existential value on their ‘car’ …

- I’m also guessing tho… somebody gotta b in the driver’s seat ;)

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groundswell Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 9:22am
brutus]hey God doesn't demand money off you. the churches/religions ask and control...it/s mans failings being shown......so when something occurred to you at such a young age , do you really think that your decision was based on Logic or?

Humility is constantly taught in the Bible

there have been quite a few examples of man creating his Utopian society and system based on his own wants and needs...whereas the society/civilization is based on the Bible!

[quote=groundswell

wrote:

I became agnostic at first under my mothers guidance and not wanting to go to Church every week to just show off my clothes in a place i don't believe in.
I started to realize if there is a god and there is a heaven and hell why aren't animals going there, why aren't ants going to heaven? i used to kill ants all the time with a magnifying glass under the sun and realized they probably are not going to heaven so why should I? What's so special about humans?

After a lot of critical thinking i decided i was an atheist, i might one day get into Buddhism but for a long time i was an atheist. Until i went to Nimbin on a road trip and bought a bag of high potency weed for schoolies.
I started schizing out a bit up on the gold coast as i was smoking a lot, decided not to go to the clubs much as they seemed like a waste of money when the surf was good almost every day i was there and nobody surfing near Cavill ave (the party part of the goldy).
Almost every day i surfed by myself in good beachy waves.
I got rolled by a group of lads one day and lost all my money too so didnt have money to party or go to go karts etc like my friends. One day a man with a beard paddled out like you'd imagine Jesus to look like and started teaching me more about the bible, even though i scored a few good tubes i was in bad shape mentally due to the nimbin weed.
I went to my friends apartment and found a bible in one room and started reading it to my all my mates horror.
Even though we went to a catholic school they were shocked i would believe that crap.
As soon as i gave up the weed and gave it to my friends to smoke i woke up and realized it was a load of BS.
For sure logic set in. i believed the bible is for people with rational thought neglect and have ever since.

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AndyM Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 9:44am
brutus wrote:

AndyM , you say I am delusional because I believe in a God. Fair enough that's your opinion , based on your life....so what do you believe in.......secular humanist who believes in the inderent goodness of man or an atheist who believes in nothing at all...or??

AndyM wrote:
brutus wrote:

Andy M , I am not judging just repeating what is written...God has judged !

AndyM wrote:

If you think you’re not judging then you’re delusional.

So then you’re delusional?

Where have I said that you're delusional because you believe in a god?

My point was that if you stand there and say "hey this person needs saving", then that is clearly making a judgment.
And if you don't believe that you are making a judgement then you are delusional (i.e. the definition of delusional is "holding idiosyncratic beliefs that are contradicted by reality or rational argument").

That's what I've said, so please don't try to make out I've said something different to try to paint yourself as a victim.

And we can also see that you are making a judgment of others based on arrogance, that is, "behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people".

So my original point that your religion seems to be a poor conduit for channeling humility still seems pretty reasonable to me.

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brutus Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 10:22am

AndyM ...misread where you said I was delusional because I judge people which is not true .

your idea of me judging people because I reach out to people who do not believe....it's easy there are believer and non believers no judgement there, just fact!

I am not a victim and for you to even suggest that comes from you not me!

So I am not judging as there are believers and non-believers. I am not forcing anyone in any way of form, just commenting , raising questions and providing answers/thoughts, discussion.....once again...is there anything that you can prove to me about your faiths and beliefs??

AndyM wrote:
brutus wrote:

AndyM , you say I am delusional because I believe in a God. Fair enough that's your opinion , based on your life....so what do you believe in.......secular humanist who believes in the inderent goodness of man or an atheist who believes in nothing at all...or??

AndyM wrote:
brutus wrote:

Andy M , I am not judging just repeating what is written...God has judged !

AndyM wrote:

If you think you’re not judging then you’re delusional.

So then you’re delusional?

Where have I said that you're delusional because you believe in a god?

My point was that if you stand there and say "hey this person needs saving", then that is clearly making a judgment.
And if you don't believe that you are making a judgement then you are delusional (i.e. the definition of delusional is "holding idiosyncratic beliefs that are contradicted by reality or rational argument").

That's what I've said, so please don't try to make out I've said something different to try to paint yourself as a victim.

And we can also see that you are making a judgment of others based on arrogance, that is, "behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people".

So my original point that your religion seems to be a poor conduit for channeling humility still seems pretty reasonable to me.

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groundswell Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 10:41am

My main realization was like what Indo Dreaming says on the first page of this thread:
"Not all religions can be correct".
All those other religions other than yours Brutus must seem strange but those people who follow those religions think the same thing about Christianity.
Think about that, how many gods are there? there are over 1500 Gods and religions since the Pyramids getting built. How many of those religions do you believe in? ONE!
Think about that.
Seems pretty arrogant to believe you got lucky and your religion is the only right one in history of man.

I'd rather believe we just die and the light switch goes out, no heaven no hell and no limbo, no reincarnation just lights out. Life ends just like before you were a sperm.

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AndyM Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 10:53am

Brutus thanks for the chat so far.
At the same time I'm pretty confident that any talk of my "beliefs" will just spiral down in to the same old thing.
Suffice to say I like to think that a degree of understanding or at least appreciation of the natural world lets me tap into humility on some level.
And please note that I've gone out of my way to qualify the above sentence by avoiding absolutes.
So I reckon I'll leave it at that.

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brutus Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 11:23am

AndyM...been a pleasure chatting with you , at least we didn't go down the old rabbit hole of yelling in capitals at each other and personal insults..LOL!

I am always interested in others beliefs as we seem to end up in the same place......humility and to not be arrogant is in my life something I am trying to rid myself of....not easy , but when you have a life of ego/elitism etc , changing behaviour takes time....work in progress.....but trying and believing in something that makes me a better person , now there's a formula for life!

take care!

AndyM wrote:

Brutus thanks for the chat so far.
At the same time I'm pretty confident that any talk of my "beliefs" will just spiral down in to the same old thing.
Suffice to say I like to think that a degree of understanding or at least appreciation of the natural world lets me tap into humility on some level.
And please note that I've gone out of my way to qualify the above sentence by avoiding absolutes.
So I reckon I'll leave it at that.

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 5 Apr 2022 at 12:54pm

Adam has occasionally done some work on my car, really nice bloke anyway one day we got talking about my yoga and meditation class I was doing at the time. Adam explained to me he belonged to an evangelical church and his pastor had warned them all about the dangers of meditation as a way the devil can enter the mind. I explained to Adam what meditation was and that if he wanted during meditation he could focus solely on his god and/or god's love. Some months later I called into Adam's workshop to say hello and he told me he had taken our earlier conversation about meditation to his church and that his preacher had taken great offence to the idea and he felt he had been on the outer at his church ever since. Control and power over the flock are mighty drugs!