All Things Religion Thread

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Balance started the topic in Sunday, 29 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm

Here you go optimist

Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...

But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!

So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like

You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...

maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here

Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain

All the best...brother

PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 1:56pm

Brutus I couldn’t have made it any more clearer where I think they came from.

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:11pm

Udo still here , how's those altar boys going?

udo wrote:

Cheers.

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:12pm

So you think it came to man naturally, evolution?

seeds wrote:

Brutus I couldn’t have made it any more clearer where I think they came from.

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:20pm

Exactly. That’s all it is. It’s in us naturally and developed or fine tuned with our increasing intelligence

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groundswell Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:16pm

1I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.- all those Hindus and Pagans will burn in hell because they dont worship me the only god.
2 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. Oh my god, oops. Dear God i took the lords name in vain im going to burn in hell forever as god loves me and i took his name in vain.
3Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. I work sundays and get paid double time and a half so im going to burn in hell.
4Honor your father and your mother. agreed unless they are assholes.
5You shall not kill.how many beheadings and killings are in history due to christianity
6 You shall not commit adultery.agreed
7 You shall not steal. agreed.
8 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Agreed.
9You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. agreed
10You shall not covet your neighbor's goods. agreed but what about homer simpson and Flanders tools and equipment Homer borrowed for several years? i guess he will burn in hell forever.

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groundswell Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:29pm

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:50pm

Can you explain then how man seems to fucking up his environment , the poor are getting poorer the rich are getting richer ?

seeds wrote:

Exactly. That’s all it is. It’s in us naturally and developed or fine tuned with our increasing intelligence

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 2:58pm

GS some good points there.....the one God it the true God.....so yes worshipping other so called Gods...maybe like money/consumerism which seems to be todays secular Gods.....pagans?

then insulting God with inferior intellect...you work it out.....LOL
Sundays...hmm your choice

Parents....well kids know better

killing not sure where you think Jesus said kill thy neighbour , and kill unto others as they Kill unto you?

Homer Simpson could be God to some, so yeah that's why they quote him??

groundswell wrote:

1I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.- all those Hindus and Pagans will burn in hell because they dont worship me the only god.
2 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. Oh my god, oops. Dear God i took the lords name in vain im going to burn in hell forever as god loves me and i took his name in vain.
3Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. I work sundays and get paid double time and a half so im going to burn in hell.
4Honor your father and your mother. agreed unless they are assholes.
5You shall not kill.how many beheadings and killings are in history due to christianity
6 You shall not commit adultery.agreed
7 You shall not steal. agreed.
8 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Agreed.
9You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. agreed
10You shall not covet your neighbor's goods. agreed but what about homer simpson and Flanders tools and equipment Homer borrowed for several years? i guess he will burn in hell forever.

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 3:19pm
brutus wrote:

Can you explain then how man seems to fucking up his environment , the poor are getting poorer the rich are getting richer ?

seeds wrote:

Exactly. That’s all it is. It’s in us naturally and developed or fine tuned with our increasing intelligence

Because we are not all the same. And the system we live in promotes it. Old mate Optimist is a fan boy. Apparently he’s voted Labor sometime in the dark ages though. Neoliberal bollocks has made it worse.
Can you explain when the world is so screwed that God doesn’t sort shit out. You know Sodom and Gomorrah style. Surely it’s needed now way more than back then. Nope he’s a no show. Quitter. Maybe he’s a convert to the prosperity gospel also. Just proves his existence is even more improbable

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groundswell Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 3:28pm
brutus wrote:

killing not sure where you think Jesus said kill thy neighbour , and kill unto others as they Kill unto you?

The Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated, supported, and sometimes directed by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The best known of these Crusades are those to the Holy Land in the period between 1095 and 1291 that were intended to recover Jerusalem and its surrounding area from Islamic rule.Unto Christian rule.

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:15pm

seeds , we see time as now....the prophecies show , that the time is coming when God will sort shit out again......just because it's not now.....and the way the world is going now and ignoring God , we are accelerating /spiralling down ....because we follow the path against God's laws and the Gospel.....judgement day is coming......certainly the seculat path we are following is leading us to Hell!

seeds wrote:
brutus wrote:

Can you explain then how man seems to fucking up his environment , the poor are getting poorer the rich are getting richer ?

seeds wrote:

Exactly. That’s all it is. It’s in us naturally and developed or fine tuned with our increasing intelligence

Because we are not all the same. And the system we live in promotes it. Old mate Optimist is a fan boy. Apparently he’s voted Labor sometime in the dark ages though. Neoliberal bollocks has made it worse.
Can you explain when the world is so screwed that God doesn’t sort shit out. You know Sodom and Gomorrah style. Surely it’s needed now way more than back then. Nope he’s a no show. Quitter. Maybe he’s a convert to the prosperity gospel also. Just proves his existence is even more improbable

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:18pm

yep the institutions that supposedly represent God and preach the teachings of Jesus , went to war .....against the teachings of the Gospel, so we are back at the Hillsong Church and the rich evangelists who also are at odds with the teachings of Jesus!

groundswell wrote:
brutus wrote:

killing not sure where you think Jesus said kill thy neighbour , and kill unto others as they Kill unto you?

The Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated, supported, and sometimes directed by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The best known of these Crusades are those to the Holy Land in the period between 1095 and 1291 that were intended to recover Jerusalem and its surrounding area from Islamic rule.Unto Christian rule.

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:34pm
brutus wrote:

Roadkill , so what is your truth.....not sure why you can't answer simple questions?

Roadkill wrote:
Cockee wrote:

Bugger-off seeds with your miserable crude unfunny memes.

The truth hurts for some.

I'd be interested in the answer to this too Brutus.

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groundswell Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:37pm

Don't you ever think to yourself this is all a load of bollocks?

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:39pm

I’ll give you one thing Brutus it’s admirable you are god bothering at a purist level. Putting the Jesus test up against institutions and peoples actions.

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:45pm

Double post

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TwsitedDrifter Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 4:53pm
brutus]seeds , we see time as now....the prophecies show , that the time is coming when God will sort shit out again......just because it's not now.....and the way the world is going now and ignoring God , we are accelerating /spiralling down ....because we follow the path against God's laws and the Gospel.....judgement day is coming......certainly the seculat path we are following is leading us to Hell!

[quote=seeds

wrote:
brutus wrote:

Can you explain then how man seems to fucking up his environment , the poor are getting poorer the rich are getting richer ?

Yes we religious folk are all getting rich from our preachings and fake recoveries from cancer patients etc its why we have the bible the gospel if it wasn't in the gospel it wasn't true. No sugar coating this one we are all filthy rich due to brainwashing decent folk and suffering folk and making them believe what we don't, we know its all bullshit but make money off it anyway.

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brutus Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 8:14pm

seeds , the truth is the truth...it's really easy to understand that there is no compromise with Gods law or the Gospels/Jesus's teachings....I am seriously flawed and struggle to overcome my sins....I constantly fall off the wagon so to speak.....when I question myself when I try to make up excuses/lies....what would Jesus do?
I repent and start again!

seeds wrote:

I’ll give you one thing Brutus it’s admirable you are god bothering at a purist level. Putting the Jesus test up against institutions and peoples actions.

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 8:35pm

You don’t need Jesus. You just need you. You to admit your wrongs to yourself. seek redemption by saying sorry to who you’ve wronged. Be better in future if you are committed. Humans are more than capable of that. You don’t have to have the supernatural to lean on. It’s inside us already. Be better in future with your commitment. Where is there a need for a god there?

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 8:36pm

Ah shit I sound like a preacher. Whahahaa

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udo Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 8:41pm
seeds wrote:

You don’t need Jesus. You just need you. You to admit your wrongs to yourself. seek redemption by saying sorry to who you’ve wronged. Be better in future if you are committed. Humans are more than capable of that. You don’t have to have the supernatural to lean on. It’s inside us already. Be better in future with your commitment. Where is there a need for a god there?

Spot on .

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 8:42pm

I think you just made a very good point @seeds. "i sound like a preacher".
My two cents worth, extremities on either side are probably swaying away from whatever it is that's real and pure. I don't know what 'that' is personally. But i'm open to finding out. I can't discount thousands of years of teachings passed on through generations, and i can't also shut off the possibility of the unknown, that's so far untapped. But to subscribe vehemently to any of the above is surely a sign that there's a lack of understanding of whatever it is? Surely whatever 'it' is would be encouraging unity of man, as opposed to this kind of division on what is?
By the way. Good conversation. Enjoyed reading it on the whole (except Roadkills contributions..or lack of,.. as usual).

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 8:57pm

BD I’m just putting my viewpoint forward. I’m not judging. I suppose I’m Agnostic as I don’t know the answers.
But I do know you don’t need God to be a better person and you sure don’t need God to tell you what’s right. It’s a human trait. Empathy. But we don’t all have it

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 9:07pm

Fair enough Seeds. Like i said, good conversation and very thought provoking. Thanks.
Me....All i know....

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 9:23pm

What do you believe in BD? To quote Brutus.

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 9:34pm

So far, energy @seeds.
Karma.
Something higher.
But i couldn't elaborate.
Just feelings.
Tangible evidence is varied and it's meanings can obviously be debated. I'm not educated enough in the bible or other scribes to say what's right and what's wrong.
It seems the general basis of beliefs is something we can all agree on. The devils in the details!! haha
My own life experiences....i'll always say 'oh my god' and 'jesus' in exteme situations, but i'm not religious at all, nor a subscriber to the main story. But i think parts of it make up the whole and would find it folly to discard them completely.
As for religion in general and churches.. they make me feel depressed and as far from any kind of god that i would think is possible. I don't think the meaning of life nor the higher order of man is to be found in a building of stained glass windows, pews, and statues of Christ is where the answers lie, but i may be wrong, but like i said, it's just a feeling, and i'll always go with that.
'm more than happy to sit back and watch those parts fall into place. I'm not seeking an answer. It will unfold in due time. I'm sure alot of those will happen when i'm no longer able to comment on a Swellnet forum!! I do enjoy reading each persons thoughts and beleifs because it just adds another layer to my own experience. As humans, we're all looking at life through the same prism so it's fascinating to see what each persons perception is. :-)
Thanks for asking @seeds. I've read your thoughts but would be interested to hear you elaborate if you think necessary.

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TwsitedDrifter Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 9:49pm
groundswell wrote:

1I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.

All those thousands of religions who were all up day and night trying to figure out what life is about and how we got here is all about and made many religions to try to discover the truth behind the meaning of life...All those other religious folk will burn in hell, only people who believe and worship me will make it to heaven. All those other religious good people will burn in hell for worshiping the wrong religion and wrong God. jee hell must be chock full of good people.

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 9:57pm

Nice BD. Pretty much like all of us. It’s arguable what’s the answer. I’m more like why does there need to be an answer. Just be. There’s no expectations then. Us humans are so full of ourselves thinking we’re so special.

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 10:13pm

haha for sure Seeds.
Maybe we as a collective are god.
And as a collective, we determine our own destiny as as species.
So probably better to keep spreading the good vibes. Yew!

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 10:15pm

note: if aliens landed on earth last weekend, at about 7pm NSW time, they may well have thought Buddy Franklin was god. ;-)

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Constance B Gibson Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 10:20pm

...or Jordan Dawson last night. Then again, Port tragics would think he was the other guy.

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bluediamond Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 10:27pm

hahahaha I only watched the replay....but it gave me god like chills. Up the mighty Crows!! yew!

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Rabbits68 Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 10:30pm
Constance B Gibson wrote:

...or Jordan Dawson last night. Then again, Port tragics would think he was the other guy.

Brilliant!

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seeds Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 10:39pm

Hahaha very funny guys love it

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groundswell Saturday, 2 Apr 2022 at 11:02pm

Worship me or burn in hell forever have a nice day love you always, God.

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Optimist Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 5:09am

The Parable of the Lost Son.... Luke 15....
11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.
13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 8:26am

Seeds...Jesus is , God is and we are better people for following and worshipping them . I admit my wrongs to myself , relative to having faith and believing in God and the teachings of the Gospels.
So the need that man has for a relationship with God , is to have a life path that provides spiritual connection with a higher power that loves you and affects your life so positively that you have peace joy and love .

udo wrote:
seeds wrote:

You don’t need Jesus. You just need you. You to admit your wrongs to yourself. seek redemption by saying sorry to who you’ve wronged. Be better in future if you are committed. Humans are more than capable of that. You don’t have to have the supernatural to lean on. It’s inside us already. Be better in future with your commitment. Where is there a need for a god there?

Spot on .

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 8:44am

BD ...what's real and pure takes , personal life experiences and an open mind. As you say for thousands of year scholars/ intellects have studied scripture and scientists have tried prove and disprove these scriptures . archaeologists have been instrumental in finding proof of Biblical civilizations etc.....so there are volumes of proof...
CS Lewis was an atheist for 40 years applied his intellect , and became a Christion......he had a classic formula for Jesus...the 3 x L's....Lunatic/Liar or Lord. Jesus proclaimed to be the Son of God...so was he liar ( If he was why does history not show this) if he was a Lunatic , how in 3 years did he accomplish what no man has ever done , changed the World ....so that leaves Lord ,.
There is so much Info/interpretations and facts that support C S Lewis's 3 x L's........it's not that hard to believe when you see man's options, as being secular ( Capitalism) or spiritual seems at opposite ends of the spectrum!

bluediamond wrote:

I think you just made a very good point @seeds. "i sound like a preacher".
My two cents worth, extremities on either side are probably swaying away from whatever it is that's real and pure. I don't know what 'that' is personally. But i'm open to finding out. I can't discount thousands of years of teachings passed on through generations, and i can't also shut off the possibility of the unknown, that's so far untapped. But to subscribe vehemently to any of the above is surely a sign that there's a lack of understanding of whatever it is? Surely whatever 'it' is would be encouraging unity of man, as opposed to this kind of division on what is?
By the way. Good conversation. Enjoyed reading it on the whole (except Roadkills contributions..or lack of,.. as usual).

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 8:50am

seeds...yes humans are so full of themselves , so when you believe that we are simply the children of God the Creator......it takes away the arrogance of man knowing and doing being the right thing.
A secular human believes in the inherent goodness of man...can't see it anywhere , all I see is greed and suffering , which is where our current society seems to be headed now....that's why I question Hillsong/Scomo/Brian etc , as they are like shallow veneer od so called Christianity , but on the inside there is a darkness.....

seeds wrote:

Nice BD. Pretty much like all of us. It’s arguable what’s the answer. I’m more like why does there need to be an answer. Just be. There’s no expectations then. Us humans are so full of ourselves thinking we’re so special.

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bluediamond Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 9:18am

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, thoughts and good mana Brutus!
At this point i'm happy to take it as it comes, but who knows, at some point i might feel the need to look further into it and explore, and to gain more knowledge.
Life experiences to this point have definitely pointed to something bigger than me.
Cheers.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 9:35am

“ so when you believe that we are simply the children of God the Creator......it takes away the arrogance of man knowing and doing being the right thing.”
The contradictions in this statement are just wonderful.

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 9:43am

Am..yeah bit confusing....what I tried to say is, that secular world's actions are destroying man , as there is just greed and short-sightedness , based his own personal needs!

AndyM wrote:

“ so when you believe that we are simply the children of God the Creator......it takes away the arrogance of man knowing and doing being the right thing.”
The contradictions in this statement are just wonderful.

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 9:46am

BD is a great mental exercise sharing experiences and personal revelations that have shaped (pardon the pun,LOL) my life...what is the meaning of life , and how and why do we need to think as a collective?

bluediamond wrote:

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, thoughts and good mana Brutus!
At this point i'm happy to take it as it comes, but who knows, at some point i might feel the need to look further into it and explore, and to gain more knowledge.
Life experiences to this point have definitely pointed to something bigger than me.
Cheers.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 12:21pm
brutus wrote:

Am..yeah bit confusing....what I tried to say is, that secular world's actions are destroying man , as there is just greed and short-sightedness , based his own personal needs!

AndyM wrote:

“ so when you believe that we are simply the children of God the Creator......it takes away the arrogance of man knowing and doing being the right thing.”
The contradictions in this statement are just wonderful.

Brutus I was more thinking about the contradiction between believing you’re a child of God and thus taking away man’s arrogance, compared to taking as gospel a book written by men which exposes the arrogance of claiming to know the so-called one true God.

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 12:46pm

OK AndyM ..got it. The Gospels were written by the disciples as an account of Jesus's life and teachings...they reported what Jesus said / preached/taught and that he was the son of God .
So the Gospels are an historic record....so not sure how you can say say the men/disciples are arrogant they only recorded what they saw and heard!

AndyM wrote:
brutus wrote:

Am..yeah bit confusing....what I tried to say is, that secular world's actions are destroying man , as there is just greed and short-sightedness , based his own personal needs!

AndyM wrote:

“ so when you believe that we are simply the children of God the Creator......it takes away the arrogance of man knowing and doing being the right thing.”
The contradictions in this statement are just wonderful.

Brutus I was more thinking about the contradiction between believing you’re a child of God and thus taking away man’s arrogance, compared to taking as gospel a book written by men which exposes the arrogance of claiming to know the so-called one true God.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 1:00pm

I think my point remains.
You’re talking about taking away man’s arrogance yet this is based on a book that claims there is only one true way.
Surely humility would leave room for competing beliefs.

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brutus Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 2:22pm

Andy M ...Jesus the son of God ,said there is only one true way and one true God.....and the disciples reported it.
Man's arrogance that I talk of, is not having a higher belief but believing that mans intellect has all the right answers.

AndyM wrote:

I think my point remains.
You’re talking about taking away man’s arrogance yet this is based on a book that claims there is only one true way.
Surely humility would leave room for competing beliefs.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 2:56pm

"Man's arrogance that I talk of, is not having a higher belief but believing that mans intellect has all the right answers."

Well if the disciples simply reported the word of the alleged One True God, then the alleged One True God must be guilty of hubris and arrogance in the face of there being other gods.

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groundswell Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 4:25pm

Andy M exactly what ive been trying to say all along but didn't have the words.

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AndyM Sunday, 3 Apr 2022 at 4:34pm
groundswell wrote:

Andy M exactly what ive been trying to say all along but didn't have the words.

Groundy, if someone is looking to "take away man's arrogance", I just don't see how accepting "one true god" is the gateway to doing this.
Surely it would do the opposite.