Submitted by Blowin on Fri, 06/21/2019 - 08:01
Talking points worthy of further discussion without devolving into insult.
Website has crashed and fuck me if this place isn’t wildly understaffed.
...plenty of people there looking for work...
it'd only be a 2 month application process...
Patrick forgot to mention that the oldies and those with co morbidity are being triaged and excluded from life saving medical treatment and thus leading to near certain death .
Counting the deaths based on figures which have been NumberWanged* into fiction by the CCP isnt disingenuous, it’s blatant manipulation and averaging deaths per day on a virus whose growth spreads exponentially and which entire nations have gone into lockdown to contain is fucked up as well.
You might as well be counting the amount of shark bites AFTER the shark alarm has gotten everyone out of the water.
Generally good spirits here though, everyone’s relaxed and patient.
haha andy, standard issue centrelink line-up shoes!
I remember this quote VJ posted in 2017
"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."
That's some good old Austrian economics, quote by Ludwig Von Mises. And it's still as true as when he wrote it. We are now entering the hyper phase in credit expansion.
hmmm, anyone notice any blue chip prices that are not not too far off their early 2000s levels?
To do that in a plummeting AUD environment, with the world's money printers firing up, is more bleakly impressive
More face masks and gloves around now, mostly bogans wearing them I love my area.
FFS .....universal basic income now. The Centrelink viral spread was a genius idea for a PM dreaming of a population ascending to the heavens ASAP.
Heads up Freo:
"Currently more than 250 passengers have reported upper respiratory illnesses," he said.
"I am advised all passengers are from overseas — Germany, France and Italy."
Mr McGowan said he had received advice from Federal Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton on Monday morning.
He said the overseas passengers would not be allowed off the ship, referring to the example of the Ruby Princess in Sydney, where passengers were allowed to disembark after docking at Circular Quay despite confirmed COVID-19 cases on board.
"We will not allow passengers or crew to wander the streets. This is a non-negotiable position.
"Options are currently being developed between the Commonwealth, the defence forces and the State Government.
-From above article
Other reports via Perth Now of it been through
Italy Jan 4
Cook Islands Mar 2
Hobart Mar 13
Sydney Mar 15
Melbourne Mar 19
That’s why it’s called the Love Boat....it fucks everyone it visits .
I wonder what the cruise ship visit(s) has/have done to NZ, which has otherwise had early, excellent policy?
shelves emptied in bunnings frenzy:
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY
We can save the human race by lying in front of the TV
and doing nothing
LET'S NOT SCREW THIS UP!
That's hilarious VJ.
I was thinking something similar, that my place is going to be immaculate, everything clean, old wooden boxes varnished, car serviced and any rust sorted.
Got some more resin today for those long-neglected dings.
Oh yeah, and wash all the salt off the windows.
Now I just have to get off my arse and put those new fishing lures to use.
Total global deaths SO FAR this year - 13,330,000
Communicable disease – 2,942,453
Seasonal flu – 110,000
During birth – 70,000
HIV/AIDS – 381,000
Cancer – 1,861,000
Malaria – 222,000
Smoking – 1,133,100
Alcohol – 566,900
Suicides – 243,000
Why is covid19 being highlighted?
Why are you calling for the government to have more control over your life (which seems particularly strange as you rail against the CCP so often)?https://www.worldometers.info
Yes, I know that not all the numbers are in yet with covid19, but they may also be overstated, people who tested positive dyeing doesn’t mean that it killed them, it may have been an existing condition. This article also says that there isn’t an agreement yet as to when to attribute a death to c19 or something else.
But Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.
“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.
“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.
This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions.
To be clear, obviously controlling an outbreak is a good thing... however is it being overstated and we're giving up more than is necessary and it will bite us, and the world, worse later on.
Yeah it's not the end of the world but if nothing else, why would I give a shit about your lame opinion when so many experts (which you're not) state categorically that this needs our full attention?
I think it's been covered.
Wait till Klein's Shock Doctrine kicks in later in this country. WE. ARE. FUCKED.
As was said many, many moons ago:
"Let's really release the LNP Kraken in times of global economic meltdown, or at the very least a more localised recession.
Let's see what they're really made of.
More importantly, let's see what we're really made of.
Let's see what the 'lucky country' is really like when the luck runs bad...and the LNP is in charge."
Patrick .....you think the whole thing is a piss take, cover-up globally collusive ruse instigated by the Chinese Government ?
What’s your point ?
I’ve got some conceits which would be considered outlandish. Let’s hear you reasoning for this .
I think there is so many different aspects that aren't even considered in this whole issue and the current approach to it and the effects from this approach..
For instance the current action is basically a disaster economically, business are going to go under, people lose jobs etc
Sure you can say well thats just economics and money, its not that important compared to lives etc but the effect that flows on to peoples lives will also be huge, imagine the strain that is going to be put on family and relationships from this.
Money problems and financial stress is one of the biggest reasons for relationship and family break downs and also fuels things like drug and alcohol abuse and even violence.
Sadly i would expect more family violence more mental health issues, more issues and neglect of children and fair to expect suicide rates to increase.
Currently about 8 to 10 people take their life in Australia every day (more than than the 7 people that have died so far in Australia from the virus) going to be interesting to see if this figure per day jumps.
Im not saying we shouldn't be having the approach we currently are or i have the answers, but just want to point out these flow on effects that are often forgotten or not talked about..
Definitely something to watch like a hawk Pupkin when we come out the other side.
The LNP will need to wind any/all that shit back, and then some.
I’m thinking about it Indo. The 10,000 ish lives that will be lost world wide and the billions that are deeply traumatised as a direct result, do matter. I know you disagree with this part, but add to that the net effect on climate once we spend the decade digging ourselves out of our financial hole with cheap coal.
It’s reckless to not consider the entire picture
Listen here you fucking retards.....Spanish Flu killed 60 million people. If this flu kills the same percentage of people as that then roughly 210,000,000 people will die.
If this shit is remotely similar then the world will be devastated.
Stick your relativism in your arses.
Boo hoo......your work dries up and you sit at home whilst the government throws free money at you. Dumb cunts.
Try telling China that they shouldn’t be in quarantine. A race that gets run over by tanks by their own government. Tell them they’re overreacting. You know why there was no one at Chinese restaurants and Chinese shops in Australian towns weeks ago ?
Because the Chinese here knew what was fucking coming from word back in China. So if you half wits had a semblance of idea you’d take their hint , stop your whinging and just prepare your families.
Andy, this is the neo-Liberal Party's wet dream. First budget is going to be an absolute austerity fucking shocker.
All furniture sold, services decimated, privatisation up the ying yang. Whilst there's dribbling about China, we're gonna instantly become the 53rd State for real. Same shitty health and education and industrial relation systems. Same fucked media cycle. Working poor. Wage slaves. Yee fucken har! John Howard's dreamworld. If there's a god, at least let him drop!
Now that's some fear fucking mongering, cobbers.
We are just lucky to have that coal and iron ore to dig us out of the hole.
Attention fixation in panic disorder during this horrible, horrible outbreak will be the moment history recognises that planet earth tipped out of our control into a largely uninhabitable piece of junk
And we here on Swellnet are lucky we've got you Indo Dreaming. First one up against the wall...
Well, maybe 3rd.
Spanish flue happened 100 years ago, if the same thing happened today with different living standards, knowledge, medicine etc death rates would be much different.
After all this id like to see deaths due to virus compared to deaths as a product of its influence, I'm predicting suicide and other deaths domestic violence etc will be higher. (obviously mean the additional deaths on top of normal yearly average)
Indo....have you not been listening when it’s been said hundreds of times that Australia’s health system will be easily overwhelmed and there will be no modern medicine available ?
2200 ICU beds.
What the fuck is modern knowledge good for when someone is drowning due to water on their lungs and no available health care ?
Face it , mate. You’re a selfish tradie concerned about a few grand in the bank. You don’t give a fuck about suicide rates or mental health anymore than you give a fuck about how many old people die . As long as yourself and your family are healthy you don’t care about anything except dollars.
Hey Indo, do you know why Spanish Flue was so deadly?
Because they were all smokers.
Think about it...
Poster vulture for Australian neoliberalism
Don’t worry Blowin, I enjoy a challenging debate, and a big part of me totally agrees with you
Has anyone thought of the angle that the lack of ICU beds, as in gross underfunding, is the elephant in the room here
I know all that, i don't have the answers, but just starting to realise the implications of current and upcoming policy.
We are basically going to get fucked over by the virus and then fucked over in so many other ways including additional deaths from hardship as I've pointed out.
Despite all the action to combat this and despite the fact everyone should be aware and preventing the spread as much as possible yesterday there was 537 new cases while the four days before only averaging around 140 new cases.
The next week is going to be interesting we could be at thousands of new cases a day.
Personally i think we are fucked because people just dont take this shit seriously, places like Singapore can control things even with keeping schools open because the people are actually disciplined, government says don't do this and they listen
In Australia people just go yeah whatever and then go down to Bondi and sit a metre away from a few thousand other people.
So anyone expecting this to be controlled like it has in other places like Singapore, no hope, not the government fault, but the people.
Two weeks time guaranteed it will be tens of thousands of cases.
EDIT: Yeah offcourse im concerned about myself and family, we all are, but its not just me thats going to get fucked over, most people are going to get fucked over, the economic devastation and flow on effect IMHO is going to be much bigger than the virus, and its going to be one that will change the landscape forever.
And all you people banging on about neoliberalism BS and big business, end of the day this is going to fuck over small business more than anything, and when the dust settles big business will rise again and take even more of the pie from small business.
Yes, the world will be changed. All the balls are up in the air and there’s no idea how they’ll land.
For better or worse ....who knows ?
Maybe the neoliberal vultures will overwhelm the carcass of the global community, maybe authoritarianism will take hold worldwide or maybe it’s the wake up call everyone needed to rediscover what’s important in life and worth fighting for ?
Here is an extended take from a data scientist in silicon valley .
Basically, a version of #justaflubro and we're not going to see millions of people dying like Spanish flu.
I first read it on another site where it got pulled and reposted here.
There are obviously people who disagree. Read it first.
“yesterday there was 537 new cases while the four days before only averaging around 140 new cases.”
Where did you get those figures from Indo? It’s been increasing at a rate of about 25% a day since the first week of March.
10/3: 100 cases nationally.
11/3: 129 cases
12/3: 168 cases
It has NOT stopped at 140 cases a day for 4 days EVER.
That’s the whole point about taking action to stop it as soon as possible. Misinformation like you just presented is just contributing to the problem. Once you hit a level of infection it just gets harder to stop, oh and by the way fucks your economy way harder in the long run than a 2-4 weeks shock.
Recommended viewing (not covid)
PS good link above thanks FR,
worth the read
that bell curve, it’s what a virus does
An interesting read @freeride, lots of stats. Probably suggests some of the fear is an over reaction. However I don't think his figures support the only a flu argument either, mortality rates are significantly higher than many of the diseases he compares to and at the upper end of predictions match the Spanish Flu numbers. As he also points out, the data set is growing day by day and interpretation does as well. Unfortunately it seems his conclusions come down to a variation of the don't mess with my freedoms, it's only a bunch of oldies who are going to die, so not worth the cost. The bye bye boomer argument.
@ AndyM the Spanish flu killed majority young healthy people and pregnant women, smokers? possibly? But if you read that somewhere i,d like to see it
It was a bad joke Mike, taking the piss out of Indo spelling it 'flue'.
My kids are still in school, small school ( down to fuck all now anyhow ) older one got taken for weekly school surfing class today , guess what, saw a bunch of the kids who were taken out for the last weeks already at the beach with their "worried parents" , fucking hypocrites , this "self isolation " is treated as a joke in our country (same as Spain - works off-holiday time , lets go to the beach!) now look at Spain
That makes more sense, I just took it to be bad spelling and bad info, normally you come across with good points ha ha, all good
Okay my average was a bit off i did mean to actual write an average of about 150 cases, but still the pattern and point is there below.
Then 22/3 BANG 537 cases
If you took those 4 days alone you could be mistaken for thinking maybe current measures are working to some extent, but then 537 cases.
It's done now, by the end of the week it will most likely be averaging over 1,000 -1,500 a day and then got to 3k, 6k, 12k, obviously the higher the numbers the harder its going to be to put that cat back in the bag
BTW. It wont be a 2-4 week shock, if thats all it is going to be it wouldn't be that much of an issue, with the way the Australia public are reacting to this its going to need to be 2-4 months action needed, talk is about schools being shut for months, most kids if not all might need to repeat the year.
We are going to get fucked over big time, not because of anything the government has or hasn't done, but because of piss poor Aussie blasé attitudes unlike the discipline Asian public (not talking Indonesia), saw it again today where i live, people still in shops super close together, talking super close, all look like it's just any Monday morning meanwhile, im feeling like the odd one out making sure im staying well clear like 3 metres away of people when i needed to grab some shit for work.
As they say you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.
Only criticism i must say of government don't know if state or federal controlled, but i heard public transport is not shut down?
WTF? that should be the first thing to be shut down, force people into cars ideally alone.
One way govt. could give people a break during this pandemic is to cover domestic and small business utilities. Immediate removal of some financial pressure on citizens and help alleviate the centrelink chaos reported in the news.
Mate just told me that apparently power companies in Spain are allowing customers to not have to pay for electricity until everything has settled down.