2022 Election

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blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 12:31pm

.....but who are you going to vote for Blowin? For someone constantly commenting on politics it would seem to be a matter of basic honesty to tell us. Seems like VL was probably right-irrelevant minor party so your vote will flow straight to Scomo.

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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 12:33pm

Who you voting for then champ?
If I'm not correct about you voting ON / UAP and referencing the LNP, everything you have posted over the last decade is pure bullshit.
I feel your only option to justify your rants is to vote informal.

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Blowin Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 12:41pm
blindboy wrote:

.....but who are you going to vote for Blowin? For someone constantly commenting on politics it would seem to be a matter of basic honesty to tell us. Seems like VL was probably right-irrelevant minor party so your vote will flow straight to Scomo.

Sounds like you’re trying to victim blame again Blindboy. I’m not sure why you’d want to punch down at a member of the electorate who, alongside millions of others, has had their democratic voice stymied by a concerted and determined political class who wish to disenfranchise the population rather than representing them.

I will do my best to vote for a fair social democracy which prioritises people over profit and the environment and society over needless growth and the strip mining of our country to make the rich richer , but the deck is stacked. against me.

What can I do?

Your accusations , that my vote will politically empower the very people I despise , Is the root cause of my distress, not something about which I’m stoked.

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 12:48pm

Fair enough, if you believe that despair is a reasonable approach. For me it is one of the fundamental responsibilities of citizenship to choose the least worst.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 12:52pm

I can only think informal in lower house, SA in senate - for my choice. Some choice!

Giant douche 2022

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Blowin Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 12:56pm
blindboy wrote:

Fair enough, if you believe that despair is a reasonable approach. For me it is one of the fundamental responsibilities of citizenship to choose the least worst.

Not quite. You don’t even believe that the Mass immigration Ponzi scheme is
detrimental to Australia so in your mind you’re not getting the “least bad” option, you’re getting the exact Fake Left outcome you hope for.

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 1:13pm

We vote according to what we believe is best and my views seem to be more mainstream than yours, so yeh I suppose I am going to get slightly closer to what I woud consider acceptable. "Fake left"or whatever you want to call them, the ALP would be better than the corrupt bunch of climate change denying incompetents currently in power.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 1:28pm

https://www.alp.org.au/policies/

going through the manufacturing/infrastructure/energy policies and free TAFE/more Uni places it sounds a billion times better than the total chaos going on currently tbh. A lot seems directed to secure work/opportunities for working people (who already live here). No mention of immigration numbers or identity politics so read the fine print...

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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 1:28pm

the thing is blowin, your main concern is "the Mass immigration Ponzi scheme". that pretty much leaves you with nobody to vote for (or at least preference).
Hanson bangs on about immigration non-stop but she has fuck all influence on policy and she is a locked in vote for the LNP. One Nation is basically the racist marketing wing of the party with a "Mass immigration Ponzi scheme". You hate the ALP so who the fuck are you going to preference? Look on the bright side, you'll still have "the Mass immigration Ponzi scheme" to sook about after the election.
And here's the kicker. the main thing you've been sooking about "the Mass immigration Ponzi scheme" hasn't even been happening during covid. Fuck me, you're a confused unit champ. You've been played mate. You hate labor so much, you'll end up voting for the party that supports the thing you hate so much.

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 3:53pm
velocityjohnno wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

We all know blowin is going to vote One Nation or Clive Palmer or some alt right micro party. He will then hold his nose and preference the LNP because he's been taught to hate the ALP more than the current scum running the country.
The scary thing is, the blowin demographic could well decide this upcoming election. Lead by the nose by Clive Palmer or attracted by Hanson's racism, delivered to the LNP via preferences, and too stupid to realise they are being played.

The tragic thing for these people is those preference flows may lead to the resumption of the mass immigration/mass education/buy our houses! ponzi at full throttle, that they really don't want at all. However, I'm not confident at all that ALP would be any different. I just want a Sustainable Australia government & senate.

whilst I will meticulously divert my preferences away from lnp... deep down, most of us know, alp won't just be same same... they'll likely be worse...

(unless they actually start to walk a bit of the talk that has started to drip drip from certain uncooth members of the party.... but... that's not bloody likely...)

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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 4:06pm

"they'll likely be worse..."
Wrong sypkan. Govts typically get progressively more corrupt the longer they are in power. NSW Labor 10 years ago being a good example. New governments start off clean, but when they are clearly corrupt, and get re-elected they just get so much worse. The warning signs with the LNP were there in 2019 and they are so much worse now.
Another big factor on why Labor won't be nearly as corrupt as the LNP is the conservative friendly media in this country. The Murdoch drones are like flies on a dog turd at even the slightest hint of corruption by the ALP. They go MIA when the LNP are bent as all fuck. This creates a toxic environment which encourages crooked conservative politicians. (And it shows)

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 4:31pm

...dan andrews government a good example too?

anyway, off topic... you failed to comprehend the point...

again...

the context was immigration

goose

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 4:35pm

I don't know why people accept that we only have two parties to vote for.
We wouldn't accept it with regards to products or choices anywhere else so why do we think it's the only way with regards to politics?

Denmark, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, New Zealand, Norway and Sweden all have multi party systems and it shows with the maturity of civil discourse.

Multi party systems are more democratic and representative and when parties are forced to create coalitions to form government, this creates greater levels of internal checks and balances due to greater internal scrutiny.

Multi party systems encourage conciliation and consensus with regards to policy creation.
And as mentioned, multi-party systems ensure that a broader spread of interests are represented in policy formation.

For the life of me I don't understand why people continue to entrench a two party system, they've got no business complaining about the state of play if they vote for the two majors.

Labor recently waved through a suite of electoral bills that could deregister dozens of minor parties.

Labor is not interested in a healthy democracy, Labor, just like the LNP is interested in power and representing its masters.

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 4:46pm

Something to think about.

Keep in mind three very good reasons for voting for minor parties and independents.

http://www.chickennation.com/voting/

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 4:48pm
sypkan wrote:

...dan andrews government a good example too?

anyway, off topic... you failed to comprehend the point...

again...

the context was immigration

goose

The Andrews government was caught up in some branch stacking activity. Everyone knows that because the Herald Sun treated it as a major crime and have had months and months of headlines. The LNP in Victoria have done exactly the same thing. Their branch stacking was a carbon copy of Labor's but you don't see the Herald Sun banging on about it month after month.
Kind of proves my point doesn't it. Tell me again sypkan, which party paid a higher price for their branch stacking and which party is more likely to do it again because they got away with it?

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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 4:55pm
AndyM wrote:

Labor recently waved through a suite of electoral bills that could deregister dozens of minor parties.

Labor is not interested in a healthy democracy, Labor, just like the LNP is interested in power and representing its masters.

Sure you have a bit of point re minor parties improving democracies, but is that really the case in Australia. We've seen ridiculous preference harvesting giving power to people with ,01% of the vote. We've seen Clive Palmer hijack democracy for his own benefit. Maybe it's time to reform the voting system? that of course is difficult, so making it more difficult for cynical micro parties isn't such a bad thing. Minor parties usually crumble as soon as someone gets voted in. Do we really need more Fraser Annings or Palmer stooges in Canberra?

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:07pm

Mate I'd be all for reforming the voting system.
As I've said in the past, Proportional Representation in the Lower House would be a game changer.
It'd give us chance to be a much better democracy.

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:13pm
AndyM wrote:

I don't know why people accept that we only have two parties to vote for.
We wouldn't accept it with regards to products or choices anywhere else so why do we think it's the only way with regards to politics?

Denmark, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, New Zealand, Norway and Sweden all have multi party systems and it shows with the maturity of civil discourse.

Multi party systems are more democratic and representative and when parties are forced to create coalitions to form government, this creates greater levels of internal checks and balances due to greater internal scrutiny.

Multi party systems encourage conciliation and consensus with regards to policy creation.
And as mentioned, multi-party systems ensure that a broader spread of interests are represented in policy formation.

For the life of me I don't understand why people continue to entrench a two party system, they've got no business complaining about the state of play if they vote for the two majors.

Labor recently waved through a suite of electoral bills that could deregister dozens of minor parties.

Labor is not interested in a healthy democracy, Labor, just like the LNP is interested in power and representing its masters.

absolutely andym!!

the sooner the two party duopoly is dismantled the better

these clowns bleeting on about the lesser of two evils are part of the problem!

and frankly, the lack of nuance and other considerations from some of them is just plain disappointing

shows a distinct lack of imagination and appreciation for integrity from what I can gather

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:23pm

So syppy let's hear your grand plan for dismantling the duopoly oh and the alternative to voting for the lesser of two evils .....is to vote for the greater of two evils.

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:29pm
Vic Local wrote:
sypkan wrote:

...dan andrews government a good example too?

anyway, off topic... you failed to comprehend the point...

again...

the context was immigration

goose

The Andrews government was caught up in some branch stacking activity. Everyone knows that because the Herald Sun treated it as a major crime and have had months and months of headlines. The LNP in Victoria have done exactly the same thing. Their branch stacking was a carbon copy of Labor's but you don't see the Herald Sun banging on about it month after month.
Kind of proves my point doesn't it. Tell me again sypkan, which party paid a higher price for their branch stacking and which party is more likely to do it again because they got away with it?

dude, you keep brushing this shit off as dan andrews 'only' and 'minor' problem, ...that's only an issue because of blah blah blah...

the mundanity and mindlessness of your excuses are tedious to say the least

fukn lamely tedious...

the cunt was on four corners last night, only caught 5-10 mins of it, ...but what I saw was, a deer in the headlights dan andrews lying through his teeth that he had no idea what goes on at the crown casino, and doesn't have time for such petty concerns...

looked just like the lying cunt that said he knows nothing of who chose rent-a-cop for one of the most serious security concerns of our lifetime...

also looked like the lying cunt that said the belt n road initiative was just a 'memorandum of understanding'... whilst selling out billions of dollars and good engineering jobs to the big bear in china... how labor...

you are a fucking joke!

you don't even make any attempt at honesty or engaging in good faith...

pure propaganda

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:27pm
blindboy wrote:

So syppy let's hear your grand plan for dismantling the duopoly oh and the alternative to voting for the lesser of two evils .....is to vote for the greater of two evils.

C'mon big fella, don't go all binary on me.

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:57pm
blindboy wrote:

So syppy let's hear your grand plan for dismantling the duopoly oh and the alternative to voting for the lesser of two evils .....is to vote for the greater of two evils.

do you have the same comprehension problems the vicmoron has?

or is it that you fake left morons are so full of miserable assumptions ...so so brainwashed by all your miserable assunptions... your miserable indoctrinated MO... and your fake left lame arse excuses... that you cannot take anyone, or anything on face value?

anything at all... ever!

because we've been over this before...

several times...

but seeing as an election is coming... and it is all looking rather dire and desperate...

again...

it involves voting for every single minor party and option there is, all the way down, until you find labor and liberal at the bottom of the voting card (...in whatever order takes your fancy...)

because every single independent that has ever made it into a position of power so far, has done a way better job than any 'yet another' arbitrary labor / liberal stooge...

even that V8 bogan that slipped in the backdoor on about 100 votes!

and, anything that takes power away from the duopoly is a positive

and, as andym pointed out, anything that makes the duopoly need to converse and cooperate with normal people is a positive

and, the recent run of independents... including tony windsor, rob oakshot, the 3rd merryman from that time i forget..., nick xeno, jaquie lambe, zali etc etc...

has shown, they all have contributed way more to sorting oz's shit than any recent major player from either major party... any of them!

way way more!!!

fuck, Id even throw pauline in there... despite the fact I cannot stand the woman... she too, has contributed way way more than any lab/lib salary collecting careerman seat warmer!!

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:51pm

So Andy how do you vote (in most electorates) so your vote does not end up with one of the major parties? To come on here and tell us that you prefer some minor party without a hope of gaining a seat in the reps contributes very little unless you tell us where your preferences are going.
sypkan demonstrates, yet again, his primary school comprehension level. Mate the only decision on your reps vote that actually matters in the vast majority of electorates is what order you put the two major parties.

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 5:56pm

"Without hope of gaining a seat"

I'll refer you back to that cartoon up the page for some very important reasons to vote for minors, not least of which is receiving electoral funding for getting a pretty modest amount of votes.

I'm with Syppo.

I'll work through the candidates until Labor is second last and Libs and Nationals are last.
And as much as is practicable, all parties whose preferences go the two majors are as low as possible.

Again, anyone who bangs on about "inclusion" and "diversity" and refuses to (thoughtfully and carefully) vote for parties other than the two majors is kidding themselves.

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:07pm

Fair enough. My point is that you have to make that decision.

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:17pm

I think a large part of making that decision is understanding that voting for a minor party is not "wasting your vote".

In fact I'd say it's an extremely important thing to consider.

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blindboy Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:29pm

Andy my comments were aimed initially at Blowin who has been ranting against both major parties. My point is valid. In the end most of us have a binary decision to make. If there is a minor party that appeals to you vote for them but don't pretend, as some here do, that it absolves you from determining where your vote will actually end up.

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Blowin Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:31pm
AndyM wrote:

I think a large part of making that decision is understanding that voting for a minor party is not "wasting your vote".

In fact I'd say it's an extremely important thing to consider.

Great work Andy

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:32pm

Thank god Australia has a duopoly, because if it didn't the Greens would be the third party with a real chance of forming government.

And if you don't fear the Greens running the country cause you're some woke lefty, we'll then imagine if One nation somehow were in the mix to run the country, if the system changed you really dont know how votes could fall.

Be careful for what you wish for.

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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:34pm

The best way to dismantle the two party duopoly is for voters to start handing out black eyes in the major's heartlands.
There's not much point voting Greens in Waringah, but the Zali Steggal win has the LNP seriously worried about the "Voices of..." movement. There is a big point voting Green in inner city Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane. It scares the fuck out of Labor and makes them a lot more concerned about important issues like equality and climate change.
Attack the heartlands from both sides and make it a hung parliament in the lower house and senate with a change of govt. Wouldn't that be sweet. We'd get serious action on climate change, a strong federal ICAC, and protection for our institutions that enhance our democracy. You know, all the stuff Hanson has shown absolutely zero interest in bringing in.

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:42pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Thank god Australia has a duopoly, because if it didn't the Greens would be the third party with a real chance of forming government.

And if you don't fear the Greens running the country cause you're some woke lefty, we'll then imagine if One nation somehow were in the mix to run the country, if the system changed you really dont know how votes could fall.

Be careful for what you wish for.

But a duopoly is one party too many, right?

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AndyM Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:44pm

"Attack the heartlands from both sides and make it a hung parliament
in the lower house ... with a change of govt. Wouldn't that be sweet. "

That'd be the best real world outcome.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:57pm
AndyM wrote:

I'm with Syppo.

I'll work through the candidates until Labor is second last and Libs and Nationals are last.
And as much as is practicable, all parties whose preferences go the two majors are as low as possible.

.

Fuck yes. Me too. Get 500 of us together and we can form a party. There hasn't been this much angst since "Smells Like Teen Spirit". And what absolute pandemonium and fun that time was.

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velocityjohnno Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 6:59pm

Imagery related to zeitgeist:

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 8:07pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Thank god Australia has a duopoly, because if it didn't the Greens would be the third party with a real chance of forming government.

And if you don't fear the Greens running the country cause you're some woke lefty, we'll then imagine if One nation somehow were in the mix to run the country, if the system changed you really dont know how votes could fall.

Be careful for what you wish for.

I don't fear that at all

not least because the greens have seriously run out of steam

I reckon they are more on the nose with people that once voted for them than labor

...they're cooked as any serious political force... peaked about 10 years ago, and has been a whimsical and weak woke withering away ever since then...

hanson on the other hand...

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 8:12pm
AndyM wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:

Thank god Australia has a duopoly, because if it didn't the Greens would be the third party with a real chance of forming government.

And if you don't fear the Greens running the country cause you're some woke lefty, we'll then imagine if One nation somehow were in the mix to run the country, if the system changed you really dont know how votes could fall.

Be careful for what you wish for.

But a duopoly is one party too many, right?

Definitely not one party states are almost always communist/socialist especially these days.

Two is fine im happy with the system we have, even when Labor get voted back in, it's really not the end of the world, but there is no other party even remotely capable of running the country not left or right.

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andy-mac Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 8:15pm

https://greens.org.au/future

What policy is so on the nose with the Greens????
Always hear people bagging them, but can never give reason re policy. Too much propaganda from Murdoch maybe...
My major gripe is they seem to target Labor electorates, instead of working with Labor to get rid of LNP. Crikey being worried about the Greens when the fucken loons of the National Party form govt... Corrupt gerrymandering Hicks.... And only approx 5,% of vote...
Yep system needs reform.... It's not presently democracy, it's a sham...

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 9:22pm

greens have just become a joke basically

and it really has nothing at all to do with murdoch... sigh... you guys have really gotta get over that... it may make those within the tent feel better about the woeful position of the left... but for anyone who's not party faithful... it just reeks of excuses and patheticness...

the greens first sold out their environmentalism for some sort of open borders utopia

then they fucked up the best chance oz ever had for real climate action whilst drunk on power

then they fully embraced wokism and gave up on any reality at all re. refugees

then sadly - and I really hate to drag the term out again - they went all neoliberal stooge with richard de natalie... who i actually had high hopes for... but sadly, they just seemed to turn to shit...

then they had their little commies versus neoliberal stooges stoush... and ousted the old chook commie... (lee rhihanon maybe?) ...which I didn't really have strong feelings for either way... the stoush... but it just all appeared a bit unbecoming for the greens, and the nail in the coffin for any integrity they were desperately holding onto...

(I think you'll find that's not a very murdoch list... so please spare me the wild accusations and pathetic excuses...please!!! ...just stop it!!! ....all of you!!!!!!)

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 8:41pm

.

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andy-mac Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 8:53pm
sypkan wrote:

greens have just become a joke basically

and it really has nothing at all to do with murdoch... sigh... you guys have really gotta get over that... it may make those within the tent feel better about the woeful position of the left... but for anyone who's not party faithful... it just reeks of excuses and patheticness...

the greens first sold out their environmentalism for some sort of open borders utopia

then they fucked up the best chance oz ever had for real climate action whilst drunk on power

then they fully embraced wokism and gave up on any reality at all re. refugees

then sadly - and I really hate to drag the term out again - they went all neoliberal stooge with richard de natalie... who i actually had high hopes for... but sadly, they just seemed to turn to shit...

then they had their little commies versus neoliberal stooges stoush... and ousted the old chook commie... (lee rhihanon maybe?) ...which I didn't really have strong feelings for either way... the stoush... but it just all appeared a bit unbecoming for the greens, and the nail in the coffin for any integrity they were desperately holding onto...

(I think you'll find that's not a very murdoch list... so please spare me the wild accusations and pathetic excuses...please!!! ...just stop it!!! ....all of you!!!!!!)

Ok fair points .. thanks for reasons.
Not a super Greens supporter but they seem to cop it from all sides. I know they had a lot of internal struggles with environmental greens versus 'socialist' greens. Tree hugging Tories branded about.
Still they have some good policy ideas in my opinion, especially a ICAC with teeth.

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andy-mac Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 8:54pm

Disagree re Murdoch however, his papers along with Costello's 9 set the narrative....

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Vic Local Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 9:35pm
andy-mac wrote:

Disagree re Murdoch however, his papers along with Costello's 9 set the narrative....

And that's why scumo and co keep suing social media users, and trying to silence anonymous commentators. They can't have the general public setting the narrative, complaining about corruption, vigorously critiquing shit policies, and blowing the whistle on dodgy deals.
But hey, the free speech warriors on the right don't really care about that stuff, just as long as they can post covid misinformation and deeply racist comments.

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Robwilliams Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 9:50pm

Independents have carried more integrity of late, throw a spanner in the works, take a risk. Reform in parliament is needed, the pressure must be applied to create change within the current system. From the last four years lessons should have be learn't. And the four years before that well it speaks for it's self. Come on Australia I dare you. Shake it up,

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sypkan Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 9:54pm
andy-mac wrote:

Disagree re Murdoch however, his papers along with Costello's 9 set the narrative....

for who?

I barely know anyone that reads or listens to this shit anymore... and those I know that do, consune it with 'oh bloody murdoch' eye...

yes there are the old boys and the conservative faithful, but these people will more than likely vote conservative anyway, hence murdoch's mythical 'influence' has no influence...

I'm not saying there is no influence at all, but it is the same conservative versus progressive influence game any country's politicians must work within...

the mythical murdoch influence is a self affirming prophecy pushed by those on the left because they are basically losing at everything, and have been for a decade or two... it's 9/10ths therapeutic - 1/10th influence...

and besides, as I said, every semi functioning democracy has media filling this role, the challenge is having good policy and politicians to win this fight, ...same as it ever was...

when the left reflexively resort to murdoch for every argument that isn't going their way, it just gives the impression of weakness and incompetence

good therapy for the party faithful... but it ain't winning any arguments...

or winning over any potential swinging voters...

it has the opposite effect...

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yorkessurfer Wednesday, 29 Dec 2021 at 11:08pm

This just dropped an hour ago on the Aspen Daily news…..
https://www.aspendailynews.com/news/aussie-pm-scott-morrison-rumored-in-...

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andy-mac Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 8:32am
sypkan wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

Disagree re Murdoch however, his papers along with Costello's 9 set the narrative....

for who?

I barely know anyone that reads or listens to this shit anymore... and those I know that do, consune it with 'oh bloody murdoch' eye...

yes there are the old boys and the conservative faithful, but these people will more than likely vote conservative anyway, hence murdoch's mythical 'influence' has no influence...

I'm not saying there is no influence at all, but it is the same conservative versus progressive influence game any country's politicians must work within...

the mythical murdoch influence is a self affirming prophecy pushed by those on the left because they are basically losing at everything, and have been for a decade or two... it's 9/10ths therapeutic - 1/10th influence...

and besides, as I said, every semi functioning democracy has media filling this role, the challenge is having good policy and politicians to win this fight, ...same as it ever was...

when the left reflexively resort to murdoch for every argument that isn't going their way, it just gives the impression of weakness and incompetence

good therapy for the party faithful... but it ain't winning any arguments...

or winning over any potential swinging voters...

it has the opposite effect...

It's not about who reads the actual papers, but the agenda setting that occurs. This is indisputable, outlined below.

https://m.

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I focus Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 9:26am

Understand the sentiment re independents / minor party's, when you get the likes of Senator Rex Patrick hard to argue against

However since Federation Australia has always been more or less a two party political system and reality on the ground is that wont change in our life time.

Politics is about power and exercising it do you think Australia would have progressed from the dark ages under Whitlam if he was bound by minor parties.... Buckley's.

2016 election over 20% voted for minor parties what did we get... a Coalition government.

I hear all the criticism about Labor and unions by people generally using terms / labels raised then poisoned by the extreme well funded right wing, the labels being trotted out by those who know better, useful idiots anyone?

The result of all this is we get the Coalition you know the mob who run illegal Robo debt when they knew it was illegal.
Same mob who backed financial institutions to shake you down through fees robbing superfunds and the like.
Remember the removal of penalty rates from the lowest paid feel like cheering that one on anyone oh but Labor would be worst eh.

Carry on cheering for the Coalition if that's what you want.

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andy-mac Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 9:40am

Good comment Focus.
Would argue that the Coalition gets away with the examples you mentioned such as Robo Debt as well as many more due to compliant media.
Would Angus Taylor, Stewart Robert, Matt Canavan, Barnaby Joyce and the list goes on still have a job if the media went after them to same extent as Sam Dastyari???
Dastyari got what he deserved, but good example of the double standards that are accepted...

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 9:45am
sypkan wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

Disagree re Murdoch however, his papers along with Costello's 9 set the narrative....

for who?

I barely know anyone that reads or listens to this shit anymore... and those I know that do, consune it with 'oh bloody murdoch' eye...

yes there are the old boys and the conservative faithful, but these people will more than likely vote conservative anyway, hence murdoch's mythical 'influence' has no influence...

I'm not saying there is no influence at all, but it is the same conservative versus progressive influence game any country's politicians must work within...

the mythical murdoch influence is a self affirming prophecy pushed by those on the left because they are basically losing at everything, and have been for a decade or two... it's 9/10ths therapeutic - 1/10th influence...

and besides, as I said, every semi functioning democracy has media filling this role, the challenge is having good policy and politicians to win this fight, ...same as it ever was...

when the left reflexively resort to murdoch for every argument that isn't going their way, it just gives the impression of weakness and incompetence

good therapy for the party faithful... but it ain't winning any arguments...

or winning over any potential swinging voters...

it has the opposite effect...

Yep completely nailed it, reality is it's not 1981 its not 1991 or even 2001, its 2021.

Most people now don't rely on getting their news from news papers or TV, they get their news through all kinds of sources and these sources have never been more diverse than right now.

As we know a large number of people get their news online these days and if you want to get your news online via Murdoch press most sites you need to pay, and like Sypkan pointed out its the older people more likely to vote conservative that are going to subscribe to paywalled murdoch press or watch TV news anyway..

Im quite happy to consume Murdoch news, id much rather read the Australians take on something than the ABC's, but the reality is i consume ABC news because its free and also free of adverts etc

Anyway here is where Australians get their news online, again more diverse than ever and pretty evenly split between narratives.

andy-mac's picture
andy-mac's picture
andy-mac Thursday, 30 Dec 2021 at 9:56am
indo-dreaming wrote:
sypkan wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

Disagree re Murdoch however, his papers along with Costello's 9 set the narrative....

for who?

I barely know anyone that reads or listens to this shit anymore... and those I know that do, consune it with 'oh bloody murdoch' eye...

yes there are the old boys and the conservative faithful, but these people will more than likely vote conservative anyway, hence murdoch's mythical 'influence' has no influence...

I'm not saying there is no influence at all, but it is the same conservative versus progressive influence game any country's politicians must work within...

the mythical murdoch influence is a self affirming prophecy pushed by those on the left because they are basically losing at everything, and have been for a decade or two... it's 9/10ths therapeutic - 1/10th influence...

and besides, as I said, every semi functioning democracy has media filling this role, the challenge is having good policy and politicians to win this fight, ...same as it ever was...

when the left reflexively resort to murdoch for every argument that isn't going their way, it just gives the impression of weakness and incompetence

good therapy for the party faithful... but it ain't winning any arguments...

or winning over any potential swinging voters...

it has the opposite effect...

Yep completely nailed it, reality is it's not 1981 its not 1991 or even 2001, its 2021.

Most people now don't rely on getting their news from news papers or TV, they get their news through all kinds of sources and these sources have never been more diverse than right now.

As we know a large number of people get their news online these days and if you want to get your news online via Murdoch press most sites you need to pay, and like Sypkan pointed out its the older people more likely to vote conservative that are going to subscribe to paywalled murdoch press or watch TV news anyway..

Im quite happy to consume Murdoch news, id much rather read the Australians take on something than the ABC's, but the reality is i consume ABC news because its free and also free of adverts etc

Anyway here is where Australians get their news online, again more diverse than ever and pretty evenly split between narratives.

The list you provided just strengthens my argument I believe.
The majority of sites are either Newscorp or 9 Entertainment. The pod cast I added makes clear how they set narrative that other news sites pick up.
Anyway agree to disagree.... ☮️