Interesting stuff
@thermalben
I dont do twitter, but i have listened to many interviews with Musk talking about what he sees wrong with twitter and his plans which all makes sense like post above about payment and ticks etc
Musk has had Twitter for what two weeks?
Your really think Twitter was a perfect well oiled machine before that?
At any time in Twitters past you could have cherry picked all kinds of issues of people impersonating others or hate speech or whatever from what ive seen and read its always been a bit of train wreck, is just now Musk owns it media and others are highlighting the issues.
Like I've said a few times now give it a few months until he has made all the changes he wants then judge things.
Otherwise its like the worst team in the AFL getting a new coach and saying after two games, the coach is no good, why aren't they winning yet this team and coach is no good, obviously things take time to change reshape and rebuild and then you get results.
thermalben wrote:sypkan wrote:"...Is it possible that most peoples' negative speculation about twitter being about to "go under" due to Musk "winging it" is really just what they truely madly deeply wish to happen due to fear of pro-Trump and anti-covid free speech...?"
absolutely possible...
like absolutely possibly most definitely probable that's exactly what they want
Amazing to see conspiracies plucked out of thin air.
Not sure if you noticed, but there's also been a lot of 'negative speculation' about FTX 'being about to go under' in the last few days too (with indications that SBF is trying to 'wing it').
I'm unsure about Sam Bankman-Fried's stance on 'anti-covid free speech', however it was reported six months ago that SBF was looking to "spend $1B in 2024 to thwart Trump comeback".
https://cointelegraph.com/news/sam-bankman-fried-could-spend-up-to-1b-in...
How do you reconcile that?
"conspiracies"
sigh...
really?
geez...
Supafreak wrote:gsco wrote:So you’re saying fraudulent market manipulation is a completely new phenomenon caused by Musk buying twitter?
Maybe you and indo missed this link that I put up earlier. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-12/eli-lilly-twitter-insulin-prices-...
SF maybe you missed the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) presentation on market manipulation:
https://www.sec.gov/files/Market%20Manipulations%20and%20Case%20Studies.pdf
and the wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
and the CMC Markets page:
https://www.cmcmarkets.com/en/trading-guides/market-manipulation
It's quite an interesting rabbit hole to go down learning about all the wild and imaginative stuff that goes on. There's a seemingly endless list of specific cases you can learn all about (by googling say "cases of market manipulation").
It has all been around a long time. Nothing new under the sun here.
I think we need a new godwins type rule around the word conspiracy...
just because one points out there's a heap of people talking someone down, willing his business dealings to fail...
that doesn't make for a 'conspiracy' and the need to slur one's character...
well it once didn't...
definitely shouldn't...
but its the all encompassing go to.... for some...
indo-dreaming wrote:@thermalben
I dont do twitter, but i have listened to many interviews with Musk talking about what he sees wrong with twitter and his plans which all makes sense like post above about payment and ticks etc
Musk has had Twitter for what two weeks?
Your really think Twitter was a perfect well oiled machine before that?
At any time in Twitters past you could have cherry picked all kinds of issues of people impersonating others or hate speech or whatever from what ive seen and read its always been a bit of train wreck, is just now Musk owns it media and others are highlighting the issues.
Like I've said a few times now give it a few months until he has made all the changes he wants then judge things.
Otherwise its like the worst team in the AFL getting a new coach and saying after two games, the coach is no good, why aren't they winning yet this team and coach is no good, obviously things take time to change reshape and rebuild and then you get results.
You're right that Twitter wasn't a perfectly oiled machine. It's been running at a loss for the majority of its existence. I've been scratching my head for more than a decade trying to work out how it actually operates as a business (compared to other social media giants who are now very profitable).
But, Musk isn't new to the platform.
First up, he became Twitter's largest shareholder in early April. Ten days later, he publicly offered to buy the company for $44 billion.
So he's had seven months to plan his business strategy. Of course, he spent much of the last seven months trying to get out of the deal, which probably derailed things, but my point being: if Musk made a genuine offer to spend $44b purchasing the company back in April, then I'd like to think that he already had a plan well before then.
Aside from that, Musk is not new to Twitter.
"Elon Musk is a Twitter super user. He has tweeted more than 19,000 times since joining the platform 13 years ago. This year, he has tweeted an average of six times a day."
Ironically, he's previously gotten in trouble using Twitter, about Tesla.
"After he tweeted in August 2018 that he had “funding secured” to take Tesla, his electric car company, private at $420 per share, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission sued him for allegedly misleading shareholders."
That Tweet cost Musk $20 million in fines. Musk said it was "Worth it".
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-musk-tweet-idUSKCN1N10K2
Have a read through this, and see what you think.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/elon-musks-tweets/
@gsco , it’s not about market manipulation it’s about how people are (were )paying $8 to go on a huge social media platform and impersonate a company or person. Others reading these tweets believe because they are verified with a blue tick are authentic tweets. The manipulation of markets is just one example. You seem to be in a fowl mood this morning.
indo-dreaming wrote:@Supafreak
Okay so you are telling me, he is saying he will create a system like this that makes complete sense in every way.
-From a business case, encourages people to get verification and pay
-Accountably which creates a better user experience
-Minimises exposure and incentive for bots.But instead just goes for some system that makes no sense at all
Im no buying it, i think you and others like your article are full of shit and just judging the cake before its baked.
Indo it might be best if you get your wife to read this article and explain it to you as you have said she is the brains in the relationship.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-12/eli-lilly-twitter-insulin-prices-.... Maybe you can also look at who has quit working at Twitter
all good SF, I'm fine, just bout to head out for the day, perfect spring weather on the Sunny Coast. We seem to have a different view of this issue which is no problems, and I'm not trying to have a go at you - I value all your contributions in here over the years and have learnt a lot from them.
gsco wrote:all good SF, I'm fine, just bout to head out for the day, perfect spring weather on the Sunny Coast. We seem to have a different view of this issue which is no problems, and I'm not trying to have a go at you - I value all your contributions in here over the years and have learnt a lot from them.
Enjoy your day , I don’t always get my point across clearly, it was never about the market manipulation, it was just how easily others were able to pay the Twitter fee to impersonate others. Elon has lost some key members of Twitter’s workforce, some fired some quit. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-12/eli-lilly-twitter-insulin-prices-... Flood of impostor accounts for major brands Nintendo, Lockheed Martin, Mr Musk's own companies Tesla and SpaceX were also impersonated, as well as the accounts of various professional sports and political figures.
For advertisers who have put their business with Twitter on hold, the fake accounts could be the last straw.
Can you imagine spending $44 billion to do this to yourself pic.twitter.com/REMzs0vT19
— Alanis King (@alanisnking) November 11, 2022
thermalben wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:@thermalben
I dont do twitter, but i have listened to many interviews with Musk talking about what he sees wrong with twitter and his plans which all makes sense like post above about payment and ticks etc
Musk has had Twitter for what two weeks?
Your really think Twitter was a perfect well oiled machine before that?
At any time in Twitters past you could have cherry picked all kinds of issues of people impersonating others or hate speech or whatever from what ive seen and read its always been a bit of train wreck, is just now Musk owns it media and others are highlighting the issues.
Like I've said a few times now give it a few months until he has made all the changes he wants then judge things.
Otherwise its like the worst team in the AFL getting a new coach and saying after two games, the coach is no good, why aren't they winning yet this team and coach is no good, obviously things take time to change reshape and rebuild and then you get results.
You're right that Twitter wasn't a perfectly oiled machine. It's been running at a loss for the majority of its existence. I've been scratching my head for more than a decade trying to work out how it actually operates as a business (compared to other social media giants who are now very profitable).
But, Musk isn't new to the platform.
First up, he became Twitter's largest shareholder in early April. Ten days later, he publicly offered to buy the company for $44 billion.
So he's had seven months to plan his business strategy. Of course, he spent much of the last seven months trying to get out of the deal, which probably derailed things, but my point being: if Musk made a genuine offer to spend $44b purchasing the company back in April, then I'd like to think that he already had a plan well before then.
Aside from that, Musk is not new to Twitter.
"Elon Musk is a Twitter super user. He has tweeted more than 19,000 times since joining the platform 13 years ago. This year, he has tweeted an average of six times a day."
Ironically, he's previously gotten in trouble using Twitter, about Tesla.
"After he tweeted in August 2018 that he had “funding secured” to take Tesla, his electric car company, private at $420 per share, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission sued him for allegedly misleading shareholders."
That Tweet cost Musk $20 million in fines. Musk said it was "Worth it".
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-musk-tweet-idUSKCN1N10K2
Have a read through this, and see what you think.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/elon-musks-tweets/
End of the day it's really about faith/belief in what will happening in the future with the company.
I personally have faith in Musk ability to improve the product and turn it into a viable business, i have this faith because from everything I've heard him say his vision makes sense and he is a proven performer in the business world with money and connections to surround himself with the best team needed, and yes he has had much time to think about how to do this and as a user he knows the product well from a usability aspect which gives him a big advantage.
And then you have the opposite views that i think is more just based on a tall poppy kind of thing where they dont like the idea of Musk having control of Twitter and ready to nit pick or try to bring him down..
I guess musk doesn't help himself in this area as he is a bit troll like which naturally rubs some up the wrong way, i think its also just kinda cool or trendy to hate on rich & successful people these days (classic example of this type of person is Hicups), i think Musk while not immune to this got let off a little in the past by many on the left because he was viewed as almost left leaning himself as a big driver of EV's & Solar battery systems, but now with his views on free speech etc he has become viewed almost as a conservative while funny enough some conservatives bag him because they view him as left leaning and claim they dont trust him with twitter.
Personally i dont think he is either right or left i think he is pretty central and balanced like most people.
And then you have people like Supa who thinks what happens in week one or two is somehow the end game and actually thinks he is clever for being so ignorant.
In regard to your second article, there is no doubt whatsoever Musk has a hate love relationship with the platform, obviously that's why he bought it to change it to what he believes it should be, if he was 100% happy with Twitter it would be pointless to buy, let's be real if you want to make money there is much better companies to buy
Anyway all this conversation is pretty much pointless, its more just a different view point on the future, it's the end result that will be of importance, so i guess we will just have to wait and see how it all pans out.
Here you go again indo , believing you know what everyone else is thinking. I personally hope musk succeeds with Twitter because I like the website. I get plenty of laughs and meet really interesting people plus there’s great links to a wide variety of topics. What I’m seeing from musk is a bull in a China shop approach which clearly isn’t working . I’ve no doubt you never got your wife to the explain the abc article to you but its all good as long as there is #alwaysacomment
Supa maybe you should get your wife to explain to you the difference between uncooked rice and cooked rice, and maybe judge the rice once it's cooked and not beforehand.
Facebook is full of pages even advertised post with people impersonating other companies like Bunnings, Jetstar, Woolworths, Apple often with fake prizes even when reported these pages/post can stay active for weeks to even months, id be very surprised if Twitter hasn't had an issue with these types of things in the past too.
Just because media highlights them now doesn't mean they didn't exist beforehand, the only difference is now you would expect scammers have become more active trying to take opportunity of uncertainty of change and off course it currently makes a good story.
Twitter is on the way out…..Musk will destroy it.
I wonder if Eli Lilly shareholders that sold after the free insulin tweet could have a case against Twitter?
indo-dreaming wrote:Supa maybe you should get your wife to explain to you the difference between uncooked rice and cooked rice, and maybe judge the rice once it's cooked and not beforehand.
Facebook is full of pages even advertised post with people impersonating other companies like Bunnings, Jetstar, Woolworths, Apple often with fake prizes even when reported these pages/post can stay active for weeks to even months, id be very surprised if Twitter hasn't had an issue with these types of things in the past too.
Just because media highlights them now doesn't mean they didn't exist beforehand, the only difference is now you would expect scammers have become more active trying to take opportunity of uncertainty of change and off course it currently makes a good story.
I agree Facebook is full of scams and they are advertised regularly. Twitter is not attracting advertisers at the moment for a variety of reasons and this is hurting Twitter as it relies on this for most of its revenue. https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/11/23451931/elon-musk-twitter-bankrupt-...
@indo the difference between Facebook scams and Twitter tweets from blue tick verified paid accounts is that Twitter is saying this is a verified account of that person/company. So who was doing the checking? Or just take the money and hope for the best ? Once they were found out to be fraudulent then they were suspended and Elon couldn’t care less and happy he got his $8. He had no choice but to cancel his blue tick verified paid account system when things got out of hand . He was asked when the blue tick would be back and has said next week. Just teething problems you think ?
I don’t think big mouth Musk really thought this through. Watching this slow train wreck is going to be fantastic. What a complete fuckup Musk buying twitter was. Too much debt and ad revenue will be shrinking at a fast rate.
https://mashable.com/article/twitter-fake-verified-posts-worse-elon-musk...
udo wrote:
Do they have electric jetski’s yet ?
udo wrote:https://watercraftzone.com.au/taiga-orca-electric-jet-ski-debuts-in-aust...
Top speed 100kph is pretty good, only 45klms distance might deter a few from purchasing just yet but hopefully they improve on that, thanks for link udo
Model Y Tesla
https://www.itemfix.com/v?t=dmhrmu
udo wrote:Model Y Tesla
https://www.itemfix.com/v?t=dmhrmu
Faaaaark. That is crazy
How's old mate #593, must be meandering along the shelf etc. Will pull up the bathy later and have a scope.
And jeezus, re Udo's post. Hectic!
Dunno about you fellas but I like actually driving.
I've driven cars, boats, bikes, trucks, graders and loaders.
I like being in precise control and having reliability, I don't even like electric windows and central locking in cars.
I can't ever see myself being merely a passenger in a car.
AndyM wrote:Dunno about you fellas but I like actually driving.
I've driven cars, boats, bikes, trucks, graders and loaders.
I like being in precise control and having reliability, I don't even like electric windows and central locking in cars.
I can't ever see myself being merely a passenger in a car.
You talking about self-drive cars? They sound appealing, in a Jetson's kind of a way, but I can't seem them being allowed here. The potential for mayhem is just too real, either through accidental errors (on a road where consequences can be tragic), the hacking of controls, or through deliberate strategies which mess with the transport system.
Why, for instance, would you ever pay for city parking if you owned a self-drive car? Just program it to drive around the block while you shop, work, or watch a movie.
And if everyone did that..?
The only real advantage was city living where time is money and people could work on the commute, yet the regional revival, and the work from home revolution is dimming that appeal.
I think driverless cars sound like some kind of hell. Surrender all autonomy and let big tech tell you where to go, at their pace, their way, listening to their piped-in ads.
Driving, especially in fully analog cars, is freedom. And no, I don't mean your normal shitty city commute.
Agree.
I surfed a regional secret spot yesterday.
Early morning drive along a big, winding river- cruising with the windows down- loving life.
freeride76 wrote:I surfed a regional secret spot yesterday.
Good idea to leave the self-drive Tesla at home then.
AndyM wrote:Dunno about you fellas but I like actually driving.
I've driven cars, boats, bikes, trucks, graders and loaders.
I like being in precise control and having reliability, I don't even like electric windows and central locking in cars.
I can't ever see myself being merely a passenger in a car.
AndyM . Me too, we are cut from the same cloth, i hate car air conditioning, electric windows, GPS map dashboards, just give me a basic and reliable trusty vehicle any day. I love a road trip anywhere, the longer the distance the better, across the Nullarbor, up the guts or cruising north on the WA coast.
Friends often remark at ‘don’t you get bored, or does the monotony do your head in’, reply NUP. In fact i like driving long distances on my own, you can take it all in, i spot birds and plants of interest from a distance, pull out the binos etc. ,listen to every album you love without others interrupting the serenity. Pull over anywhere, sleep under the stars, listen and look for night birds, nothing better. Surf somewhere without too many in the water, no time inhibitions and simply enjoy what Australian life has to offer. I’m off on a big road trip mid March 2024 departing Victoria, all aboard. Toot!!!!
Edit. My displeasure in flying somewhere reminds me of days in the early 80’s working on building sites in London, going to work on the Tube, simply have no fucking idea about how far and where you’ve travelled. I love the tyranny of distance, logging the kilometres hour after hour, it gives you a total perspective and mental picture of where you’ve departed from and where you are incrementally getting to, in that fashion you have a full picture and understanding of how far you’ve travelled and just how big our country is.
Car air conditioning is the same, I like to feel the day and night temperatures when i do road trips, it builds a personal climatological brain map, of again, the places i see and visit, it helps me understand plant and bird life distribution and heightens my knowledge base immensely.
Ah, my feet are itchy and tingling as i write.
udo wrote:https://electrek.co/2022/11/13/tesla-china-responds-to-dramatic-crash-th...
This sort of active disinformation spreading from the CEO of Twitter and Tesla naturally leads to public resentment that the world’s richest man would spend so much of his time and effort on polluting information streams instead of fixing his companies. So some number of people will be uninterested in seeing “his side” of the story, and will actively distrust anything that he or Tesla has to say, since he is spending so much public effort spreading disinformation lately.………….not really a glowing report on Elon’s character , he might regret laughing it off about people impersonating others and getting $8 for it .
Yeah, assumed that Tesla was autonomous but maybe there was something else at play there.
I'm with you Alfred, manufacturers can have their GPS this, that and the other, and all their trinkets. I'm not worried about the latest wireless connectivity or whatever, I want to know if I'm going to get 500k + out of the engine and/or if it's going to let me down when I need it the most.
Although I'm happy with air con and cruise control :)
Yep, some of my best memories in life, all around the world, involve being out on the highway on my own, with near-endless possibilities and destinations.
It's probably why the first Mad Max movies gives me goosebumps every time I see it.
"Give it the bejeesus!"
"You're blaspheming again - I don't have to work with a blasphemer..." :)
Supafreak wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:@Supafreak
Okay so you are telling me, he is saying he will create a system like this that makes complete sense in every way.
-From a business case, encourages people to get verification and pay
-Accountably which creates a better user experience
-Minimises exposure and incentive for bots.But instead just goes for some system that makes no sense at all
Im no buying it, i think you and others like your article are full of shit and just judging the cake before its baked.
Indo it might be best if you get your wife to read this article and explain it to you as you have said she is the brains in the relationship.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-12/eli-lilly-twitter-insulin-prices-.... Maybe you can also look at who has quit working at Twitter
Supafreak. Someone on these platforms provides me with at least one giggle a day. Yours was accidentally hidden at the bottom of the page of engagement with Indo. She probably wears the pants as well. Cracked me up. Good stuff
Nullabour Lunch Alfred..
https://www.amazon.com/CarQiWireless-Steering-Laptop-Tablet-Notebook/dp/...
udo wrote:Nullabour Lunch Alfred..
https://www.amazon.com/CarQiWireless-Steering-Laptop-Tablet-Notebook/dp/...
Udo. Oh Udo, you’ve done it again. Thanks, you’ve given me my second giggle for the day. My son whose a tech nut would see that as totally acceptable, mind you he’s never been on an epic road trip in Oz, albeit he did accompany my ex wife and I on a rip snorting Californian road trip back in 2019. How good are road trips ?
indo-dreaming wrote:Do you really think Elon wouldn't have known all the figures and financial risk and challenges ahead???
Do you really think the richest man in the world would not have a team of people crunching figures and looking at all kinds of different scenarios???
He/they would have known there would be sponsors leaving which also makes things harder, and of course he would have known many would leave twitter.
ID, I just posted a link in the Bitcoin thread to an article about FTX, but it had some revelatory information about Elon/Twitter halfway down. It's well worth reading (scroll down about 3/4, and look for the heading "Oh Elon").
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-14/ftx-s-balance-shee...
In short: Elon's bankers loaned him $13 billion to fund the acquisition, which they then planned to syndicate to investors (i.e. hedge funds).
However, due to the craziness of the last few weeks (with Elon publicly talking about bankruptcy), the hedge funds are only interested in buying it at a steep discount, of 60c in the dollar. The banks apparently won't go less than 70c.
Either way, that's a massive financial loss for the bankers in a very short space of time.
Ben, it seems that the worm has turned on planet earth and Musk is now on the receiving end of the same information warfare treatment that Trump got.
The debt deal to finance twitter was arranged in April this year (see for instance this article). The debt financiers don't consider offloading the debt in the market until the deal is finalised (October), as expected and is customary.
April is right when interest rates started increasing in the US. Also since April debt/credit market conditions have deteriorated quite spectacularly, in particular in terms of liquidity, spreads, and overall financial (dis)stress. A lot has changed in the global economy, particularly debt/credit markets, since April...
Indeed, discussing debt markets in general, the article says: "A sharp sell-off in credit markets has saddled banks with more than $35bn of debt from takeovers that they have been unable to sell to investors.. I.e. the same situation is happening across the board for lots of debt deals...
And the debt financiers won't incur a loss if they hold the debt on their books instead of sell it in the market in the current financial conditions. So they're not necessarily facing a massive financial loss...
So the media appears to be trying to make it look like the market doesn't want to touch the twitter debt due to Musk's "fiasco" at twitter, but in reality the debt financiers are simply facing tough debt market conditions to sell any debt into...
Nothing is ever as it seems or sold to us in the media - didn't covid just remind us of that...?
Fair enough, I defer to your better knowledge of finance markets.
But.. would you not agree that Musk is exacerbating the situation, by publicly discussing how Twitter could be bankrupt soon?
Every day there's a new story about something Twitter has buggered up under Musk's direction (today, it's 2fa, see below). Surely he's got the smarts to triple check any deployments before they go live?
Alright, so it looks like 2fa has been shut down. Making some backup codes, but if I get logged out, I may not be able to get back in. Will be posting a How To Reach Me stub and pinning it shortly. This is crazy. pic.twitter.com/vZoShmnkcl
— Ryan Broderick (@broderick) November 14, 2022
I actually am worried that the probabilities favour things ending quite badly for Musk here with twitter, but not necessarily due to his actions - more due to the "whole system" mobilising and turning against him, all the forces working in the background trying to bring him down and make his twitter venture fail.
Wow, you really think Musk hasn't brought this on himself?
Possibly brought it on himself only to the extent that Musk may have misread the sheer political forces - particularly from the democrat side of things - at work in the US aimed at censoring and preventing right wing free speech.
Righto. Not sure if it's worth continuing the discussion any further, if you're going to focus everything through a lens of political conspiracy.
Elon is the richest person in the world. All of his Twitter missteps have been widely documented for a long time, as has his general character (remember when he publicly accused one of the Thai cave rescuers of being a paedophile?).
Just seems to be a little too convenient to blame the failure of this biz deal on the 'Democrats'.
FWIW, I could care less about Elon.
I use Twitter regularly and don't want to see it fail. Starlink is a great product that I look forward to using. I'd happily consider a Tesla in the future (though hopefully he builds a ute so I can fit in my boards). And perhaps one day if I'm rich enough I'll pay for a ticket on SpaceX.
Doesn't mean the way he's handled the Twitter acquisition isn't a comprehensive balls-up.
I also respectfully disagree with your assertions GSCO. Elon has made an absolute mess of this acquisition and transaction. All his own doing, he can't help himself.
gsco wrote:Possibly brought it on himself only to the extent that Musk may have misread the sheer political forces - particularly from the democrat side of things - at work in the US aimed at censoring and preventing right wing free speech.
Is this like when you said I was cancelling Indo Dreaming because I didn't agree with him?
lol. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out, equally interesting as the FTX situation.
This Lowy Institute paper makes for some interesting reading: Rise of the Extreme Right: The new global extremism and the threat to democracy.
Have it cunts