2022 Election

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blindboy started the topic in Saturday, 13 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 5:31pm
frog wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

@frog , what have been the lean times for mining in the last 20 years ? Yes certain minerals have dropped in price and mines closed but Gorgon life is expected to be a minimum of 50 years . I do understand what you’re saying though.

I am talking mining generally. Twiggy might have made megabucks but across the sector it is highly variable. Super profits that can be sustained are just occasional rare events.

Most explorers just lose and lose hoping for a major discovery. Even BHP blows it on some big projects.

If you ever invested in mining stocks or watched commodity prices you would never think of it overall as an easy or certain or particularly profitable sector. It is tough with some big winners now and then that create the headlines.

Even Twiggy and FMG in the early days was seen as a highly risky and uncertain bet for years. Lots of clever people sold FMG for under 50 cents per share and lower way back cause they did not expect it to survive. Now it is over $16.

Lots of commodities have had long periods of low prices over the past 20 years. So many times prices spike up and everyone says a new super cycle in a particular commodity or class of commodities is about to occur. People pile in to relevant explorers and miners. More often than not something comes in to upset the apple cart within a year or two (economic down turn, competition from closed mines opening back up to catch the higher prices, substitution of other products etc.). The good times rarely seem to last long with a few exceptions.

So by the time a super profits tax hits often the super profits will be gone. Or, investors will just give up and go elsewhere. And, as the sector just sucks up capital like a sponge to keep rolling it would then struggle big time.

Again, a one size fits all super profit tax is just unfair and counterproductive.

Good informative post

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frog Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 6:13pm
Supafreak wrote:

I’m not so sure about super profits being rare events. I was working on various BHP sites in 2006 -2016 and in 2007/08 the price on the spot market was $180 with a production cost at the time of $20 per tonne. The big 3 for australia , coal , iron ore and gas have had a pretty good return the last 20 odd years with gas only coming on stronger than ever recently. There was a slow period for iron ore and rio & bhp were just making a small margin after cost but that period didn’t last long . Twiggy’s investors that made a fortune, were the ones that bought in early before the shares were split.

Iron ore has been very good for a few big miners.

But the trails and tribulations of Venture Minerals Limited with iron ore in trying to commercialise a smallish but high grade deposit make sobering reading and add dimensions to the mining story most never see.

In short they "pushed the huge rock up the hill" and in 2021 when iron ore price peaked made their first shipment - a big milestone. Then it rolled back on top of them when prices plunged 62% in a short period soon after the champagne corks popped.

"2021 was full of noteworthy milestones, namely the first shipment of iron ore from Venture’s Riley mine .....
Venture Minerals (ASX:VMS) had reached steady state iron production from Riley in August and made its first shipment of iron ore before suspending operations due to the rapidly declining price of 62% iron from US$230 per tonne to US$106/t.

Below break even. Funding dries up. Plant mothballed. Shareholders sell. That is a big part of the mining story we rarely hear about in the MSM.

Share price hit 10.5c. Now 2.8c. Recession ahead. More pain and losses to come.

Some mines mostly owned by the big 3 have huge deposits of good grades and can survive in low price times and make big money in the peaks.

Most are not so fortunate. The scariest time for many new miners is often when they first go into production - so much capital has been spent and so much can go wrong. Often a price decline cycle hits at just the wrong time. It can get brutal where the big customer they had signed up just stops buying soon after all the plant is built and first shipment has occurred and then waits for the bankruptcy to buy out the totally exposed miner for pennies. Shareholders get close to zero for their troubles.

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gsco Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 6:15pm

ahh Australian stock market investors absolutely love their little speculative miners, they're just like playing the pokies, all part of the investment community culture

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velocityjohnno Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 6:34pm

one powerball and I'm outta here

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Supafreak Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 7:00pm

@frog , I’m not following what happened here ….. "2021 was full of noteworthy milestones, namely the first shipment of iron ore from Venture’s Riley mine .....
Venture Minerals (ASX:VMS) had reached steady state iron production from Riley in August and made its first shipment of iron ore before suspending operations due to the rapidly declining price of 62% iron from US$230 per tonne to US$106/t. ……..this price of US106 is still a very good profit margain if your production costs are similar to BHP / FMG of US $12.65 per tonne , do you know what their production costs were ?

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frog Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 7:40pm

Supa, I don't know the cost structure details for VMS but BHP and / FMG are just remarkable and unique situations with low costs per tonne due to the massive deposit, good grades and sunk costs are spread across huge volumes of ore.

I think VMS has a small deposit and a short mine life to make the whole thing work it needs to pull out a lot of profit in a short time period to cover all the set up and other costs. Unless the iron ore price is high it just does not work. Or perhaps it is like a piggy bank they can only raid once and will only do so when the ore price makes it worthwhile - to give them a base of cash to fund other projects.

Many unbuilt mines would actually be profitable at not so high prices but because no bank loan or share raising will ever occur until the margins are super attractive they never get funded. On paper they might look good but can sit there for decades doing nothing.

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Supafreak Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 7:59pm

It sounds like a bad gamble that didn’t pay off . I remember a small company that had a mine near wodgina 100 klms out of hedland, they were hoping to use FMGs rail into port hedland but twiggy never gave them a schedule so they were trucking it in . As soon as price dropped they were doomed.

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bonza Saturday, 1 Oct 2022 at 10:29pm

“Shareholders get close to zero for their troubles”

And Taxpayers get worse as they inevitable are the ones who pay for the remediation of abandoned mine sites to manage the enviro costs thanks to inadequate and unenforced environmental mineral company bonds. Another “…big part of the mining story we rarely hear about in the MSM.”’

Cry me a tailings laden river about so called fairness taxes on super profits for the mining industry.

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GuySmiley Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 10:46am

@blowin, please don't selectively (mis)quote me on a matter I commented on re: the Federal ICAC to make a point (??) on the AU gas exports which if your were paying attention you would know I also believe govt's on both sides have sold us out completely.

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GuySmiley Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:08pm

I see @info’s favs Jacinta Price, Warren Mundine and Anthony Dillon are all speaking at the CPAC conference along with a collection of total ratbags. Talking about selling out, I guess the appearance money must be good.

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Supafreak Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:19pm

Here’s some more of the line up at cpac…… Among those speaking at the event are anti-immigration campaigner Nigel Farage, former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, One Nation’s NSW leader Mark Latham, as well as federal senators Matt Canavan, Jacinta Price, Alex Antic and Malcolm Roberts. https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/protesters-call-for-end-to-far...

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:49pm

Pompous self serving conservative cunts, nothing more. The far right can fuck right off. Eat them alive if we ever have to, one morsel at a time. No sympathy for those who create division or oppress the minorities. Vote with your feet and keep calling them what they are. True cunts. Did that corrupt evangelistic prick scomo show up? He'd fit right in. Its not simple conservatism that I take offence to but some of the lingering effects of underhanded rightwing policy that are actively encouraged. Tony stood for little and still gets a voice, fuck off. They are all far from a class act at Australias expense. Can't believe we paid for these pricks.

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AndyM Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:36pm

Sounds like a barrel of laughs.

Is that the same Jacinta Price who was accused by Indigenous community groups of "spreading racist vitriol"?
The same Jacinta Price whom Marcia Langton said "legitimises racist views by speaking them against her own people"?

Quality.

Jacinta can hang out and eat an onion with Tony Abbott and then have a crack at trans people with ex-Liberal candidate Katherine Deves.

Fuggin bewdy.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:48pm
Supafreak wrote:

Here’s some more of the line up at cpac…… Among those speaking at the event are anti-immigration campaigner Nigel Farage, former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, One Nation’s NSW leader Mark Latham, as well as federal senators Matt Canavan, Jacinta Price, Alex Antic and Malcolm Roberts. https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/protesters-call-for-end-to-far...

Ha ha this is pretty funny, firstly barely new worthy a crowd of what?...maybe a dozen max.

"Sydney-based activist groups are protesting outside of a conference in Sydney, where former Prime Minister Tony Abbott is the keynote speaker.
The Community Action for Rainbow Rights (CARR) and Campaign Against Racism and Fascism (CARF) "

Yet they are calling for an end to others political views?

"Protesters call for end to far-right politics as ex-PM takes stage at conservative conference"

That's pretty fascist

And anti racist? they have a Black lives matter banner, a racial divisive group who cause months of social unrest and billions in damage looting and rioting for months even about 30 dead and and another sign seems to be some social alliance group or something.

FFS complete nutters, however even those on the right or conservatives like mussel, who dont agree with crazy far left views and totally despise their beliefs, still acknowledge peoples political rights and freedoms to have a view that differs from my own.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:50pm

When are you going to put your real name up? Still afraid of being judged for your core values? piss weak

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 8:52pm
GuySmiley wrote:

I see @info’s favs Jacinta Price, Warren Mundine and Anthony Dillon are all speaking at the CPAC conference along with a collection of total ratbags. Talking about selling out, I guess the appearance money must be good.

Um can you please explain how conservatives appearing at a conservative function is selling out????

Makes no sense at all, if they get paid great that's their job, i mean please they are conservatives we believe in free markets and right to earn money for services provided, its not like they are marxist and capitalist and against the whole system, but still happy to be paid.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:06pm

They are are against the far left and anyone who doesn't fit their agenda. Nothing inclusive about some of their comments, statements and actions over the years. And just for the record i believe in freedom of speech but just hate cunts. You could roll them in glitter and the'd still be cunts. left right or somewhere in-between. Don't be a cunt.

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Supafreak Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:06pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

Here’s some more of the line up at cpac…… Among those speaking at the event are anti-immigration campaigner Nigel Farage, former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, One Nation’s NSW leader Mark Latham, as well as federal senators Matt Canavan, Jacinta Price, Alex Antic and Malcolm Roberts. https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/protesters-call-for-end-to-far...

Ha ha this is pretty funny, firstly barely new worthy a crowd of what?...maybe a dozen max.

"Sydney-based activist groups are protesting outside of a conference in Sydney, where former Prime Minister Tony Abbott is the keynote speaker.
The Community Action for Rainbow Rights (CARR) and Campaign Against Racism and Fascism (CARF) "

Yet they are calling for an end to others political views?

"Protesters call for end to far-right politics as ex-PM takes stage at conservative conference"

That's pretty fascist

And anti racist? they have a Black lives matter banner, a racial divisive group who cause months of social unrest and billions in damage looting and rioting for months even about 30 dead and and another sign seems to be some social alliance group or something.

FFS complete nutters, however even those on the right or conservatives like mussel, who dont agree with crazy far left views and totally despise their beliefs, still acknowledge peoples political rights and freedoms to have a view that differs from my own.

Yeah I thought it was pretty funny, the whole show including the protesters . Gotta admit some great speakers in that lot . Do ya think AJ might get his old gig back at sky ?

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AndyM Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:09pm

Against the far left??
They're against the centre.
Actually I dare say they'd be against the centre-right.

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AndyM Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:10pm

Eugenics Dreaming, moving soon to a dictatorship near you.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:34pm

They are against anyone who doesn't tow the idealistic self serving hate speech they spew. Far from quality spoke's people for a more inclusive and healthier Australian society. The have been turning on the centre for some time when resistance started to voice it's self from within the democratic society they actually chose to represent. fuck em all. Far from quality humans fit to represent. Vote with your feet they aren't even trustworthy.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:47pm
Robwilliams wrote:

When are you going to put your real name up? Still afraid of being judged for your core values? piss weak

Mate a lot of people here know who i am, i dont try to hide it in anyway, i leave trails everywhere, barely anyone here uses a real name and we all have the right to some anonymous to a degree, however from past discussions I'm actually in the minority of thinking it would be a good thing if we had to use our real names and log in through something like Facebook. (but lets not get into that discussion again)

BTW. I think you will find Swellnet mods dont appreciate these types of post trying to paint someone in a negative light because they dont use their real name, Stunet has called people out on this before.

As for my core values?

Here they are:

Political:
I believe in democracy and for people to have a right to political views be it right or left leaning, i believe in free markets, low taxes, small governments, minimal regulation and minimal government interference in personal lifes, i believe capitalism is the best system and despise communism and true socialism and marxist ideals. (all of which many say are responsible for 100 million deaths, not to mention the loss of freedoms we enjoy)

Religion: Im not religious but believe everyone has a right to practice the religion they choose as long as abide by the law, and i think most religions like Christianity & Buddhism have some good ideals, principles, morals.

Race: Im in a mixed race relationship(17 years) with a women of colour and believe all people should be treated equally, I dont believe in laws/rules based on race or even representation for one race, i believe in one government and one people treated equally, no ifs no buts.

Immigration: While i get and understand the views of people like Blowin, i think our immigration rates are about right and i enjoy the multicultural aspect of Australian life.

That said i think borders are important and against any kind of illegal immigration, i also think all Australians no matter ethic backgrounds should be proud Aussies and being patriotic and nationalistic shouldn't be viewed as a negative thing as it sadly is these days, we should all be proud Aussies.

Family: i think family is real important especially traditional family units, i think all children ideally should where possible have the right to a father and mother as nature intended, because all over the world children without fathers are more prone to all kinds of negative aspects and often underperform.

Of course this isn't always possible there will always be single mums and we shouldn't view them as being bad or social outcast, but the aim should be there to provide children with a mother and father role model where possible.

Guns: (because its such a conservative cliche) Im not pro guns, but think farmers and hunters should have the right to suitable fire arms. (non automatic)

What else is there?

Okay freedom of speech, i think it's really important and hope Elon Musk is forced to buy Twitter, even high i dont use it as find it trashy.

Ask and i will tell you.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:39pm

Nah your a cunt nothing more and a weak one at that. Conservative or not. You hide behind anonymity cause its safe and self serving. you are one of the most divisive and negative people on swellnet.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:38pm

Ha ha whatever...i think your views are pretty fucked up and very extreme.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 10:02pm

People like you shaped my views from a young age and I have been calling them out ever since. I got no time for cunts. Left right or anywhere in between. Don't take offence it's just what you represent. Your entitled to do as you wish. Keep spewing the hate. It's what you know and express frequently from the comfort of anonymity wether stunet agrees or disagrees i couldn't give a fuck. I despise what you stand for and what you hide behind. playing the victim and painting your ideas in goodlight when they are far far from it. Your comfortably ignorant and safe conservative or not.

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Supafreak Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:45pm
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indo-dreaming Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 9:58pm
Robwilliams wrote:

People like you shaped my views from a young age and I have been calling them out ever since. I got no time for cunts. Left right or anywhere in between. Don't take offence it's just what you represent. your entitled to do as you wish. Keep spewing the hate.

It's funny that those who accuse others of spewing hate, are always the ones that are the most hatefully potty mouths dissing everyone and anything the doesn't fit into their narrow views of the world, think differently to me and well your a cunt.

And this isn't exactly spreading peace and love either.

Robwilliams wrote:

Pompous self serving conservative cunts, nothing more. The far right can fuck right off. Eat them alive if we ever have to, one morsel at a time. No sympathy for those who create division or oppress the minorities. Vote with your feet and keep calling them what they are. True cunts. Did that corrupt evangelistic prick scomo show up? He'd fit right in. Its not simple conservatism that I take offence to but some of the lingering effects of underhanded rightwing policy that are actively encouraged. Tony stood for little and still gets a voice, fuck off. They are all far from a class act at Australias expense. Can't believe we paid for these pricks.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 11:01pm

I hate cunts no apologies you reap what you sow as they say. Ive got plenty of goodwill for those who don't make victims of others. I'm the one your mother warned you about. And Im happy to go down in a blaze of glory every time when it comes to people with ideas and actions like you. Your ideals and values mean nothing to me. And never will unless they carry a positive light conservative or not. You could call it basic human decency and respect. But I'll let the devil and the gods decide that when we get there. Too extreme? Or just someone who thought to oppose your negative bullshit? Someone who's had to live with the consequences of actions of people like you and what you represent. I call you a cunt every time i see fit. You bring it on yourself by what you like to think is healthy discussion when it is nothing more that oppressive speech that suits your agenda of simple minded conservatism that fits sadly like a well worn glove. People like me learn't to fight back not because we wanted to but in order to survive. People like me eat people like you alive every time you fuck up. You bring it on your self by being a cunt to humanity. I reiterate, a cunt to humanity. Nothing more nothing less. oh and my narrow views of the world ain't looking that narrow at the present. peace love and understanding has its place but sometimes you got to call a spade a spade no matter how ugly you paint it to be. Projecting vomit never helped the world. And crying foul can only win you so many free kicks until the truth sticks.

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Supafreak Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 10:16pm

Conservative Liberals embrace at CPAC to celebrate the electoral defeat of ‘lefties’ within the party https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/02/conservative-libe.... “The good thing about the last federal election is a lot of those lefties are gone. We should rejoice in that. People I’ve been trying to get rid of for a decade have gone, we need to renew with good conservative candidates.”

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andy-mac Sunday, 2 Oct 2022 at 10:55pm

Just bring on ICAC!!!
Morrison, Dutton, Taylor and quite a few more will be busy.....

CPAC, was there ever a bigger bunch of kooks in one spot ever???
Anyway, they are pissing in the wind, no one except their moronic supporters listen and thankfully they are now a minority of the electorate and the way the carry on will continue to be...
Echo chamber wank fest. Why does media even give it any coverage????

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Robwilliams Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 12:22am

Because it contained prominent heads of Australian government and views that have been at the forefront of Australian politricks in past deviseive elements

I don't have full faith in the icac bringing past mistimenours to justice but I will wait and see how it plays out it's a start and hopefully can lead to restoring some faith towards Australia's current political situations

In some ways the damage done is irreversible and could be swept away in light of more current issues as we do often see played out politically

people are trying to change things but we have seen the resistance and unaccountability time after time I guess we will see but it has changed the political landscape somewhat people have lost faith due to loosing trust in what they where sometimes lead to believe

very hard to restore trust once it is lost it's a powerful thing and people don't like being lied too manipulated or taken for a ride
People are expressing concern that the politically representatives hold them selves better in regards to issues and values they want delivered with out the bullshit deception and social division the past actions have resulted in people became tired of the nonsense and took action with their vote

keep voting with your voices and feet

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GuySmiley Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 8:24am
AndyM wrote:

Sounds like a barrel of laughs.

Is that the same Jacinta Price who was accused by Indigenous community groups of "spreading racist vitriol"?
The same Jacinta Price whom Marcia Langton said "legitimises racist views by speaking them against her own people"?

Quality.

Jacinta can hang out and eat an onion with Tony Abbott and then have a crack at trans people with ex-Liberal candidate Katherine Deves.

Fuggin bewdy.

The same Jacinta Price who recently spoke at an IPA conference singing the praises of Murdoch media.

No stone left unturned …..

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GuySmiley Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 8:34am
indo-dreaming wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:

I see @info’s favs Jacinta Price, Warren Mundine and Anthony Dillon are all speaking at the CPAC conference along with a collection of total ratbags. Talking about selling out, I guess the appearance money must be good.

Um can you please explain how conservatives appearing at a conservative function is selling out????

Makes no sense at all, if they get paid great that's their job, i mean please they are conservatives we believe in free markets and right to earn money for services provided, its not like they are marxist and capitalist and against the whole system, but still happy to be paid.

Because @info your favourite conservative stooges, as you well know, represent no one. No community support or backing.

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Fliplid Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 3:30pm
andy-mac wrote:

Just bring on ICAC!!!
Morrison, Dutton, Taylor and quite a few more will be busy.....

CPAC, was there ever a bigger bunch of kooks in one spot ever???
Anyway, they are pissing in the wind, no one except their moronic supporters listen and thankfully they are now a minority of the electorate and the way the carry on will continue to be...
Echo chamber wank fest. Why does media even give it any coverage????

A bit of reality check might be needed. The most conservative, and arguably, the most corrupt of the bunch were all re-elected and still have a groundswell of support. As for ICAC putting anyone in jail, well that is wishful thinking. Maybe Taylor has a case to answer regarding the water buybacks but I reckon he'll get away with it, every thing else will be argued away by high priced barristers

As for no-one listening to the right wingers, well how about the RBA giving financial support to one of their think tanks? Would that suggest some-one who has a direct influence on Australians lives is listening?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-02/sally-mcmanus-actu-thirty-year-wa...

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andy-mac Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 5:07pm
Fliplid wrote:
andy-mac wrote:

Just bring on ICAC!!!
Morrison, Dutton, Taylor and quite a few more will be busy.....

CPAC, was there ever a bigger bunch of kooks in one spot ever???
Anyway, they are pissing in the wind, no one except their moronic supporters listen and thankfully they are now a minority of the electorate and the way the carry on will continue to be...
Echo chamber wank fest. Why does media even give it any coverage????

A bit of reality check might be needed. The most conservative, and arguably, the most corrupt of the bunch were all re-elected and still have a groundswell of support. As for ICAC putting anyone in jail, well that is wishful thinking. Maybe Taylor has a case to answer regarding the water buybacks but I reckon he'll get away with it, every thing else will be argued away by high priced barristers

As for no-one listening to the right wingers, well how about the RBA giving financial support to one of their think tanks? Would that suggest some-one who has a direct influence on Australians lives is listening?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-02/sally-mcmanus-actu-thirty-year-wa...

That is true re hard core being reelected, however now they are only preaching/ appealing to their hard core supporters. The traditional blue ribbon seats such Wentworth traditional liberal safe seats were lost to Teals. What was it 5 seats? These are the seats that need to be won back by LNP, and with the talk coming out of the speakers at CPAC, they won't be getting them back anytime soon. Without these seats they will be in opposition for a long time unless Labor really screw up. Unlike USA we have compulsory voting so getting a minority of hard core rwnj's fired up fortunately does not have same impact.
Re ICAC, ok maybe wishful thinking having them going to jail, however some will have their political careers gone, and the LNP will have more of a stench about it than it does now. Still you never know what mat happen, think there are at least a handful of LNP pollies not have great sleeps at the moment with ICAC and Royal Commission into Robodebt coming up. What can of worms gets opened up here if suicide is shown to have occurred due to a wrongful debt notice , is there civil cases against the culprits that knowingly enforced what they need to be unlawful?
Labor are playing pretty straight bat at the moment, but reckon they remember pretty clearly how Abbott tried to smear them all with Union Royal Commission headed by his mate Dyson Heydon (disgraced). Geez they tried to nail Gillard over a home renovation 20 years prior. Labor say it won't be about revenge, but let's wait and see how it plays out. I'd be surprised if a crime isn't exposed re water and Cayman Islands with 2 very high profile LNP politicians....
Anyway time will tell.....

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andy-mac Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 5:18pm

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-02/sally-mcmanus-actu-thirty-year-wa...

Institute of Public Affairs have had major influence in Australian politics...
Check list to see what was LNP policy for last 10 years...
https://ipa.org.au/ipa-review-articles/be-like-gough-75-radical-ideas-to...

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indo-dreaming Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 5:45pm
GuySmiley wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:

I see @info’s favs Jacinta Price, Warren Mundine and Anthony Dillon are all speaking at the CPAC conference along with a collection of total ratbags. Talking about selling out, I guess the appearance money must be good.

Um can you please explain how conservatives appearing at a conservative function is selling out????

Makes no sense at all, if they get paid great that's their job, i mean please they are conservatives we believe in free markets and right to earn money for services provided, its not like they are marxist and anti capitalist and against the whole system, but still happy to be paid.

Because @info your favourite conservative stooges, as you well know, represent no one. No community support or backing.

Okay so first you claim these conservatives are sell outs for speaking at a conservative conference sharing conservative ideals, which makes no sense at all as selling out means you change or go against your views/ideals/principles in exchange for money or fame etc (none have done this)

The closest would be Warren who was heavily involved with Labor before becoming a conservative but did he do it for money or fame?

Unlikely he still seems to be very vocal about conservative ideals and not a closet Labor supporter, he says the swap was because Labor changed and didn't align with his beliefs, but I'm sure he also matured and changed his views to some extent too.

And now you are claiming elected leaders voted in by the public represent no one????

Look dude when people get voted into positions by the public they are representatives for at least the people that voted for them be it at a local levels or state or national level, they only get voted in if they have majority support so like it or not they are representatives for a lot of people.

Both Jacinta & Warren have also served as councillors at local levels and been elected into political positions at higher levels Jacinta currently in the senate.

Obviously her voice or thoughts dont represent everyone in her electorate or every indigenous person in her community where she comes from, just the same as airbus Albo doesn't represent everyone in his electorate or community and if you want to base this on race as it seems you are implying just cause me and Albo share being white doesnt mean he represents me thats for sure and someone like Lidia Thorpe or Jaquie lambie also dont represent everyone in their community or even all Indigenous people, i dont expect any of them claim too either.

I know it might comes as news to you but Indigenous people are just like you and me they dont all have one collective view (even if they want to try to create one with a voice)

Actually i think much of the importance of people like Jacinta, Warren, or Dillion is to to break down the stereotype of all indigenous people having some collective view and show the wider Australian community that just like any ethnic group they have very diverse views on all things and especially that all indigenous people dont see themselves as hard done by victims and are positive successful go getters and not just men, indigenous women too like Jacinta

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Fliplid Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 6:04pm

andy-mac if that IPA list was fully implemented we'd be the 51st of the US

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andy-mac Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 6:14pm
Fliplid wrote:

andy-mac if that IPA list was fully implemented we'd be the 51st of the US

@Fliplid: They got through quite a few!

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Supafreak Monday, 3 Oct 2022 at 9:03pm

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 8:25am

It's funny and weird how leftist are so obsessed with conservatives and what conservatives are doing..

I honestly have no idea or care less if there was some leftist conference on (or even conservative ones at that) and i can't recall conservatives getting out and protesting about some leftist conference if they did, the only reason i know of losers like Jordie's is because of exposure here otherwise i wouldn't know or care who they are, and now you cant down vote YouTube videos they aren't even worth clicking on.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 8:32am

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stunet Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 8:34am
indo-dreaming wrote:

It's funny and weird how leftist are so obsessed with conservatives and what conservatives are doing..

I honestly have no idea or care less if there was some leftist conference on (or even conservative ones at that) and i can't recall conservatives getting out and protesting about some leftist conference if they did, the only reason i know of losers like Jordie's is because of exposure here otherwise i wouldn't know or care who they are, and now you cant down vote YouTube videos they aren't even worth clicking on.

More power to you. However, you're a one man band.

Paul Murray, Fred Pawle, Janet Albrechtsen, Rita Panahi et al get their weekly content from leftist issues. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 9:30am

See this is what i mean i don't even recall ever hearing the names Fred Pawle, Janet Albrechtsen before I'm guessing you only know about them from some left leaning media, i don't like Paul Murray i find him annoying but i like Rita, but yeah you might have a point she can be over the top and a lot of the Sky news is too, I'm not sure if its so much opossing individuals though, more opposing ideologies.

BTW. I'm not interested in any conferences, and don't know if far leftist do them, maybe not as they have universities for all these twisted and weird post modern ideas, that i guess sadly filters down the education system and you end up with stuff like gender ideology or critical race theory in schools etc

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stunet Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 10:00am
indo-dreaming wrote:

See this is what i mean i don't even recall ever hearing the names Fred Pawle, Janet Albrechtsen before I'm guessing you only know about them from some left leaning media.

Yes, like The Australian.

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 10:11am

“…. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.“

What does right actually stand for that builds /strengthens society?

… but who they oppose: there’s always these false external enemies wrapped up in their politics of exclusion

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 10:11am

“…. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.“

What does right actually stand for that builds /strengthens society?

… but who they oppose: there’s always these false external enemies wrapped up in their politics of exclusion

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andy-mac Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 11:37am

“…. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.“

They stand for hypocrisy, negativity, hate, division, and would sell their grandmother for $$$. Ok little hyperbolic, but hey.
Being the resident Jordies Zombie I'd better put this up as it relates directly to Janet and her hypocrisy...
Funny how people attack the personalities of the so called left, but can never make a reasonable response to what is actually said or written. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Enjoy
https://m.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 4:45pm
GuySmiley wrote:

“…. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.“

What does right actually stand for that builds /strengthens society?

… but who they oppose: there’s always these false external enemies wrapped up in their politics of exclusion

Um most modern society's and economies are built on conservative principles and ideals

1. Family and family values.

2. Free markets and private ownership

3. Hard work and self responsibly.

3. Individual freedoms

4. Rule of law

6. Pride in ones self, country, tradition and customs

Conservatism is about preserving the best of all these these things and only adjusting things slightly where needed when needed, opposed to thinking anything from the past needs to be broken down and everything constantly changed.

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flollo Tuesday, 4 Oct 2022 at 5:08pm

I wouldn’t even know there was that cpac thing if it wasn’t for this forum. It is clear that crew there is determine to self destruct. ‘Purging lefties’, from the party‘, let’s get more conservative’ etc…What a bunch of nonsense. It’s only a matter of time until all these independents form a new party and forever destroy LNPs chances at ruling through the majority (well, certainly if they continue like this). This happened many times in the European politics, I can’t see why it wouldn’t happen here, especially with the current trends.