Climate Change

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blowfly started the topic in Wednesday, 1 Jul 2020 at 9:40am

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Supafreak Saturday, 5 Mar 2022 at 11:39am

So many urgently needing help , is the government disaster management response going to reinvest the money it has or start actually helping people like this nurse . My first thoughts were where is she supposed to isolate ?

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 5 Mar 2022 at 1:00pm
Robwilliams wrote:

Abc news
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-04/coal-fired-power-could-end-within...

Interesting read.

It's not unrealistic about 11 coal power fired stations decommission dates are within roughly the next ten years anyway, some in the next few years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal-fired_power_stations_in_Austr...

Almost ten more have decommission dates in the 2040 period only odd one latter, obviously all those dates will move forward.

Our most recent plant was built in 2009 and if that sounds recent, its crazy to think Germany generally seen as the most progressive country for energy actually opened a new coal fired power plant in 2020 https://www.powermag.com/germany-brings-last-new-coal-plant-online/

It's going to be so interesting to watch how things go over the next 10 to 15 years and how this transition juggle is managed, some huge challenges ahead to fill the gap that coal will leave, not so much during the day but during the night, personally i can't see it happening without a decent investment in gas peaking plants to support storage.

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Robwilliams Sunday, 6 Mar 2022 at 12:56pm
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Robwilliams Sunday, 6 Mar 2022 at 1:02pm

Are we going to look at property planning differently after these events?
abc news
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-06/qld-flood-weather-south-east-quee...

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stunet Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:06pm

Only two episodes in, but I've been enjoying 'Australia, If You're Listening - Season 6' which is about climate change.

As it's on the ABC, I expect many people would have presupposed the context, but I've been happy with the neutrality of the content.

In fact, it doesn't indulge in any kulturekampf at all, as far as I can tell.

Worth a listen.

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AndyM Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:25pm

I get the feeling that even the possibility of the relocation of an entire town like Lismore wouldn't be enough to make a lot of people stop and consider the role of climate change and to acknowledge the bigger picture.
Reckon it might continue to be a case of a bulk of people being ok with simply dealing with the symptoms as they pop up as opposed to being party to a broadscale longterm plan.

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freeride76 Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:28pm

I think the scale of the consequences are starting to become clear.

And that is what is already baked in.

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AndyM Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:49pm

Yep, this is what's baked in, plus we've got a lag effect, and then however long it takes on top of that to implement changes.

The question is, assuming politicians act, to what extent will people accept a hit to their "quality of life".

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freeride76 Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:51pm

I don't see them having any choice in the matter around here.

if you can't afford million dollar plus property (still at risk from climate change), where can you go?

Can't relocate the entire Northern Rivers.

Plus the whole world wants to live here.

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flollo Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 12:52pm
AndyM wrote:

Yep, this is what's baked in, plus we've got a lag effect, and then however long it takes on top of that to implement changes.

The question is, assuming politicians act, to what extent will people accept a hit to their "quality of life".

Quality of life in which way? I am confident that a lot of quality doesn't need to be lost but which specific ones do you think will people lose?

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AndyM Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 1:03pm

I suppose I'm talking about a disposable lifestyle - plastics and electronic goods and the like. Maybe taking a slight hit with having to pay for different packaging in supermarkets. Something along the lines of give me convenience or give me death.
I expect that this will be used as a political wedge by some.
I used inverted commas around the term because in reality it won't decrease our quality of life, it will actually increase it.
To me, this is a fundamental concept that we need to understand.

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AndyM Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 1:07pm

Where does that leave us FR?
Wholesale construction of a CBD and housing estates on the (very fertile) plateau?
And the "less fortunate" can continue to take their chances on the flats?

Fuck, this is the movie Parasite in front of us.

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freeride76 Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 1:10pm

Yep, and multiply that down every river and river valley on the East Coast.

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AndyM Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 1:19pm

The huge social upheaval that's been predicted for decades.

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Supafreak Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 2:24pm

Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...

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indo-dreaming Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 6:14pm
stunet wrote:

Only two episodes in, but I've been enjoying 'Australia, If You're Listening - Season 6' which is about climate change.

As it's on the ABC, I expect many people would have presupposed the context, but I've been happy with the neutrality of the content.

In fact, it doesn't indulge in any kulturekampf at all, as far as I can tell.

Worth a listen.

Saw this comment at lunch so listened to both podcast episodes today while working, interesting to listen to the history, bit of slant on things but otherwise yeah fairly neutral in presentation considering the subject matter..

It seems strange now looking back to think that Nuclear energy wasn't considered more seriously in that 80-90s era, i hope a future podcast give a little incite into any historical aspect of that slant.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 6:44pm
Supafreak wrote:

Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...

Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%

"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...

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Supafreak Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 6:54pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...

Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%

"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...

@indo , what about growing food , the poorer nations will struggle , do you think the rest of the world will feed them ? They don’t do it now .

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AndyM Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 7:50pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...

Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%

"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...

“ hurricanes, floods, and other natural disasters aren’t getting worse. They’re getting better. Much better.”

Well that’s one way of looking at it.
Not sure if the people of south-east Queensland and Northern New South Wales would agree.

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cd Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 8:13pm

At a guess property prices would be down some large percentages around Brisbane and the Northern Rivers- i know i wouldn't be interested in purchasing and probably a large number that want out but now could be faced with more debt than property value.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 8:18pm
Supafreak wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...

Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%

"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...

@indo , what about growing food , the poorer nations will struggle , do you think the rest of the world will feed them ? They don’t do it now .

Some areas farming will become harder and farmers will need to adapt and change what they grow, other areas generally in colder climates will become free of ice/snow or receive longer growing seasons.

We have also already seen a greening effect from satellite pics from increased C02 levels.

With any change there is negatives and positives, although okay the negatives might outweigh the positives(i believe they do in food production), but just saying it's not all doom and gloom.

Sorry im just an optimist.

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GuySmiley Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 8:28pm
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bonza Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 8:23pm
freeride76 wrote:

I don't see them having any choice in the matter around here.

if you can't afford million dollar plus property (still at risk from climate change), where can you go?

Can't relocate the entire Northern Rivers.

Plus the whole world wants to live here.

It’s a shambles and one that river mangers are well familiar with dealing with for decades. Forced sale of frontage owners with a history and exposures to flooding vs endless buckets of taxpayer cash to protect their assets. The obvious cheaper solution is not the political preference or to date option.

Of course whether it’s coastal or inland the resistance of (eg collaroy) many property owners exposed to flooding and inundation won’t accept anything but current market value or value of their original purchase (whichever is highest) if they are forced to sell. And they hope for short memories when they do sell.

The solution is difficult expensive and litigious yet fathomable better and cheaper then doing nothing.

Any ideas how many times machines have been out for maintenance to the collaroy wall since it was built and what that looks like in cash?

This is not victim blaming. The vulture activity and collusion of developers real estate and corrupt councillors coupled with general ignorance and faith from community in thinking a council approved lot as their residence is fit and safe is disgusting. Still many knew or should have known the risk. Some in a sense had no choice.

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freeride76 Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 8:32pm

Where are the single Mums going to live who got priced out of the coast?
the nurses, teachers, workers etc etc.

If they can't live in Lismore, are we going to build tent cities and bus them to the hospitals?

This will take massive nation building.

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bonza Monday, 7 Mar 2022 at 8:51pm

yes it will. and its exactly the conversation we should've started having 30years ago.
better now then never

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Craig Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 7:05am

Yeah exactly Steve, the ones affected most have been the ones pushed out of the bigger towns thanks to the rental and housing crises. So heavy.

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udo Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 8:45am

~ NEED ESSENTIALS ~

Today they are passing on Profits to Flood Victims

Good work Ryan Scanlon.

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davetherave Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 8:55am

Thinking outside the box.
Timber shortage=grow hemp in marginal land to use as building material, stronger than steel.
don't rebuild houses, when houses are next to each other, build unit complex with first two stories car spaces/ water storage-height limit 6-10 stories.
improve eco friendly public transport so people don't need cars all the time.
where possible, plant hemp, fibrous vegetation near catchments so waters flows slower in times of heavy flow.
Currently 7 properties in street behind me vacant, airbnb, holiday homes- whilst people are homeless????
So all this physical stuff useless unless there is a change in awareness. Note, memo to Earthlings, you do realise everything is energy and feedback loops of energy interacting with itself, when Fear (greed, mistrust, deceit, anger, fear of death/sickness etc)is the base frequency, a certain type of feedback loop(outcome/consequence)is set in play. The Covid fears, anger, lockdowns and non vaccinated vs the vaccinated division had to play out somehow. You can manipulate this energy by mass gathered intention in the best interests of all. Yep, I know way outside the box that one, but true nonetheless. Planet Earth and it's "natural disasters" are energies in motion just as humans are continually individually and collectively transmitting a wildly assortment of e-motions, our media, our entertainments, our actions clearly demonstrate it's rarely peaceful. But that's just my perspective.

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seeds Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 1:02pm

My wife was in a local clothes shop on Saturday and the owner was banging on to her friend about how the government (which one I don’t know) have manipulated the weather to cause these floods to stop the next convoy to Canberra. My wife giggled and got accused of insinuating the owner was crazy. This is the level of stupidity of some amongst us. Not to mention the sheer lack of understanding of the situation and empathy for for the thousands of flood victims. Class act that one.

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Craig Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 1:04pm

I read that as well Seeds, was shared to me, fuck it makes me angry! When people don't understand simple meteorology like what developing thunderstorms look like on the radar and why this event occurred.

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seeds Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 1:22pm

I’m just so baffled by it. COVID has exposed some serious nutters amongst us. I’m not talking about your Burlieghs or Blowins that have health concerns about it and vaccines. It’s the QAnon type crazies and what they believe.

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Cockee Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 1:26pm

The suggestion that CC is responsible for the heavy rain is laughable. Most of you guys are only too happy to deride and pour scorn on Christians believing in a 'sky fairy' but at the same time earnestly believe that every drought, flood, bushfire and famine is a result of an intangible, mystical concept that no one can quantify. What's the difference?

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seeds Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 1:32pm

Well I think there’s quite a lot of scientific studies that allude to it’s reality. I don’t see anything tangible that religion gives us to state otherwise. Why isn’t climate change just part of gods plan for you lot? Why deny it’s happening at all?

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stunet Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 1:37pm
Cockee wrote:

What's the difference?

Probably the ability to measure the gradual increase of carbon, then hypothesise the results of a carbon increase, then observe the hypotheses coming to pass.

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Craig Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 3:29pm

Cockee, a warmer atmosphere can hold more moisture, and with the warmer sea surface temperatures they are also feeding more energy and moisture into the atmosphere. To get such radical totals so far south in southern NSW is amplified by the record sea surface temperatures recorded offshore.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 3:37pm

Yep.

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davetherave Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:00pm

As we become more aware of this heating plus how it adds to the Indian Ocean dipole, la Nina's, la Nino's SAMS and JMO interactions on Australia's Climate and weather, let us hope that our policy makers put more effort and funding into future planning. Gregg Braden had an interesting video about patterns and their repetition and based on the maths it pretty much predicted Covid happening based on prior Pandemics including the Spanish flu in 1915.
It would be interesting to see if there was an Algorithm that used all possible flood data, including core sampling to see if there is a pattern that can be anticipated. We all know the weather and our Climate is a very dynamic thing, is there patterns or is it chaotic, maybe both. Sure help a lot of people if we could help them before, rather than after.

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flow Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:01pm

Jesus

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:04pm

wept

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:22pm
Cockee wrote:

The suggestion that CC is responsible for the heavy rain is laughable. Most of you guys are only too happy to deride and pour scorn on Christians believing in a 'sky fairy' but at the same time earnestly believe that every drought, flood, bushfire and famine is a result of an intangible, mystical concept that no one can quantify. What's the difference?

Although i get your frustration with any and every weather event instantly being linked directly to climate change, and a type of attitude that we never had events like this in the past.

I think you have to accept that they do seem to be getting more regular and more severe, from a simpleton view it does seem like CC is a factor.

But it was still interesting and actually refreshing though to see this article the other day being rather pragmatic and not blindly overhyping things like many media outlets and saying.

"Climate change doesn’t tell the whole story, as extreme rainfall can occur for a variety of reasons. What’s more, it’s too soon to officially state whether this event is directly linked to climate change, as this would require a formal event attribution study. This can take months or years to produce."

And then latter in the article

"Disentangling the role of climate change

When it comes to understanding the role of human-induced climate change in extreme events, there is the temptation to ask the wrong question: “did climate change cause this event?”

Since any extreme event is always a manifestation of climate variability, large weather systems, local-scale weather and climate change, it’s impossible to categorically answer this question with a simple “yes” or “no”.

Instead, the question we should be asking is “did climate change contribute to this event?”

Well, firstly, there has actually been a slight decrease in summer rainfall in southeast Queensland and northeast NSW since the mid-20th century. But, there’s very high variability in rainfall for this region, and La Niña – a natural climate phenonenon associated with wetter weather – often brings flooding to this area, as we saw in 2010/2011 and in the 1970s.

Indeed, the effect of La Niña (and its counterpart El Niño, associated with drier weather) makes identifying a climate change-related trend more difficult. In other words, while a human-induced climate change signal may be present, the naturally high variability makes it hard to spot.

The atmosphere can hold approximately 7% more moisture for every degree Celsius of global warming. However, we also need the right weather systems in place to trigger the release of moisture from the air and cause extreme rainfall. The climate change effect on these systems is uncertain."

The whole article is a good read
https://theconversation.com/one-of-the-most-extreme-disasters-in-colonia...

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flollo Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:34pm

I'm so tired of the human-caused/not human-caused climate change debate. For some things, it doesn't even matter. The fact is you need a strong emergency response system whichever might be the case.

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andy-mac Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:35pm

Read somewhere the other day, apologies if here. 'Whether you believe in climate change or not doesn't matter, the insurance companies do ...'

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flollo Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:42pm

Yes, exactly. The whole thing is a circus, to be honest. As the electric car argument; getting rid of dirty fuel, reducing noise pollution, and ensuring our transportation is energy independent from foreign countries is a huge benefit. In my opinion, you don't even need climate change to push for this transition. That's an extra cherry on the cake.

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groundswell Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 4:54pm

Just look at how dirty the air is in Jakarta, the pollution danger signs are always in the red....banning two stroke ojeks and tuk tuks is one thing thats helped reduce the pollution there..no need to mention climate change as there are many benefits to reducing pollution.

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davetherave Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 6:04pm

I been inviting you all here for years now.

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Cockee Tuesday, 8 Mar 2022 at 10:00pm

Measurement of climate data has been occurring for a couple of centuries (at best) in Australia. Given the aborigines were able to come to Australia during an Ice Age 60000 years ago suggests attempts to deduce CC from a pumpteenth of the inhabited history of this country is absurd.

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carpetman Wednesday, 9 Mar 2022 at 12:42am

What do you do for a living cockee?

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davetherave Wednesday, 9 Mar 2022 at 6:58am
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Craig Thursday, 10 Mar 2022 at 9:43am

New record..