Climate Change
From that Hawaiin news article ..
"HPD said no injuries were reported. It's not clear what caused the house to collapse."
Surely they can't be serious.?
Well there ya go, and that idiot having a go at the authorities re protecting his house. Mate it's futile, they shouldn't be there.
Astounding stories comming out of Lismore. Stay safe up that way peeps.
How Lismore locals became flood rescue heroes when emergency services were swamped - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-01/lismore-floods-how-two-blokes-in-...
Yeah , some of the stories of the elderly and frail struggling to get to roofs or higher ground is chilling.
Anyone up there missing a cow ?
Regarding the latest IPCC report: some renewed context - https://population.org.au/discussion-papers/climate/
@Craig , do you see these radical floods that we’re currently witnessing becoming more regular and making towns like Lismore unliveable ?
Abc radio rn
Saul Griffith talks.
Some interesting points. On possiblities of future change.
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/electrify-everyth...
lets face it, humans are doing their best to totally fuck over the planet. have already apologised to my kids for what it is going to happen. my youngest has a very strong moral and social conscience and has asked we make changes to the way we live which we are doing but I look around and the amount of people that don't give a fuck means there is little hope. take my neighbours for example. he drives a diesel Ranger and works in an office. the wife drives a diesel Territory and doesn't work. he stands about 170cm and she is shorter and the two kids are in PS and they are tiny so why do they need the big cars?...image? wanker? Napoleon complex?
Why do they need the two kids?
What this flood has also shown is that we need cash , not much good tapping your card or phone when there’s no service .
We need cash full stop…no good tapping your card or phone at all…use it or lose it.
Are vicbloke and viclocal related by any chance? That's one of the more irrational, hysterical posts I've ever read, even by VL's standards - maybe you (and your neighbours?) should shed all their worldly belongings and go native.
vicbloke wrote:lets face it, humans are doing their best to totally fuck over the planet. have already apologised to my kids for what it is going to happen. my youngest has a very strong moral and social conscience and has asked we make changes to the way we live which we are doing but I look around and the amount of people that don't give a fuck means there is little hope. take my neighbours for example. he drives a diesel Ranger and works in an office. the wife drives a diesel Territory and doesn't work. he stands about 170cm and she is shorter and the two kids are in PS and they are tiny so why do they need the big cars?...image? wanker? Napoleon complex?
I think this attitude is really sad, yeah sure the world isn't perfect never was never will be and sure there are challenges like climate change, but its not the end of the world, not even close.
The reality is historically we live in one of the best times ever, most of human existence was spent in times where life was a true struggle, and truly cheap and life expediency short, for much of human existence 20-40 years was the average life span, even in Europe or Australia in 1870 average life expediency was only 35 years old in 1820 between 84% to 94% of the world lived in poverty, now its below 10%
Even in the last 30 years things have improved greatly for instance.
Since 1990 world poverty has reduced from 1.9 Billion to a bit over 500 million.
Since 1990 child deaths have gone from over 12 million to under 6 million.
In 1970 life expediency in Australia was 71 years its now 83 years.
And then add to that we basically won the lottery being born into a developed country and one with a good climate and a country without war and so much opportunity too.
@supa. authors of the latest IPCC Assessment discuss here. Recorded with current flood context.
https://www.science.org.au/news-and-events/events/climate-change-impacts...
Also check out https://www.climatechange.environment.nsw.gov.au/north-coast
download the snapshot or report.
These region wide assessments are a must for anyone contemplating moving to a new area
@bonza , Thanks I had a look at your links . I watched a news report on Lismore and its business owners, nearly all weren’t insured as the policies were anything from $50,000 to $100,000 per annum . They were talking about rebuilding and getting on with it . I was surprised at that and thought they seriously need to think about moving their business to higher ground. Plenty of land in the area , the whole town needs a different plan set out . I remember seeing in the house price thread that shitty old fibro houses were fetching $550,000 and needed work . Maybe the government could drop 1 submarine and build a new town that wasn’t in a flood zone .
indo-dreaming wrote:I think this attitude is really sad, yeah sure the world isn't perfect never was never will be and sure there are challenges like climate change, but its not the end of the world, not even close.
Close! By that do you mean 5 years or 20 years or 50 years. In geological time it's a second away, in human lifetime terms it's our kids. This is the end of the world as we know it. Climate change will kill what we know of our existence. It won't carry on regardless. That is naive to the point of delusional.
indo-dreaming wrote:The reality is historically we live in one of the best times ever, most of human existence was spent in times where life was a true struggle, and truly cheap and life expediency short, for much of human existence 20-40 years was the average life span.
Look, sorry that is just bollocks. 1 - totally unverified, 2 - based around averages, which are heavily dependent on early death being high, which it no longer is. For most of human history anyone who made it through their first 15 years was going to live to today's 'average' age. This is just standard misunderstanding of human history. The idea that people were living harsh and brutish lives is shown to be false by the indigenous peoples of many lands, particularly Australia.
indo-dreaming wrote:Even in the last 30 years things have improved greatly for instance.
Since 1990 world poverty has reduced from 1.9 Billion to a bit over 500 million.
Since 1990 child deaths have gone from over 12 million to under 6 million.
In 1970 life expediency in Australia was 71 years its now 83 years.
The vast, vast majority of those improved stats was because on one nation. Guess which Indo. Yep, that would be China. The change in Australia's life expectancy is almost entirely due to issues such as national health programs, antibiotics, improved health procedures and the fact that the generations that followed hadn't been through the horrors war-time of rationing, oh plus the fact that they hadn't fought in world wars and died at age 20.
batfink wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:I think this attitude is really sad, yeah sure the world isn't perfect never was never will be and sure there are challenges like climate change, but its not the end of the world, not even close.
Close! By that do you mean 5 years or 20 years or 50 years. In geological time it's a second away, in human lifetime terms it's our kids. This is the end of the world as we know it. Climate change will kill what we know of our existence. It won't carry on regardless. That is naive to the point of delusional..
In geographical time humans have only been around for a split second.
Climate change will speed up rates of change but it is not the end of the world, or not even the end of human existence, humans will adapt where needed just like we do around the world where people live in extreme environments from Alaska to the Sahara and all in between humans are extremely abatable and advances in technology will help bring all kinds of solutions. (BTW. there is even books written on much of this)
Yeah sure that doesn't mean we shouldn't take climate change seriously and off course we should try to reduce emissions we want to lessen the impact, but the idea the world is so terrible and you need to apologise to your kids because they are born into one of the best times to be alive in human existence and add to that been luck to be born into a developed country.
Well sorry thats a joke.
batfink][quote=indo-dreaming wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:The reality is historically we live in one of the best times ever, most of human existence was spent in times where life was a true struggle, and truly cheap and life expediency short, for much of human existence 20-40 years was the average life span.
Look, sorry that is just bollocks. 1 - totally unverified, 2 - based around averages, which are heavily dependent on early death being high, which it no longer is. For most of human history anyone who made it through their first 15 years was going to live to today's 'average' age. This is just standard misunderstanding of human history. The idea that people were living harsh and brutish lives is shown to be false by the indigenous peoples of many lands, particularly Australia.
1. Okay so what time do you think would be a better time to live than todays era???? (before most of us were born)
And not just an opinion based like answer, something based on facts that can prove it would be better to live then than now.
When was a better time to live for???
-Life expediency (yes based on averages)
-Health (most of human history people died of very treatable things, even in places like Indonesia people die from TB, or things like birth complications, I've lost two friends to birth complications in remote areas)
-Ability to travel
-Comfort (being able to control your environment, be able to combat the cold or hot etc, or just general comfort, it not fun trying to sleep in a dripping bark hut today, just like it wasn't long ago)
- Access to information ability to better ones self etc
And then lets not just think about being a man, but also a women.
For women its even more attractive to be born in this era than even 100 years ago let alone a few hundred years ago, off course we are talking the average women not a Queen or something.
2. Okay to be fair you do have a point here, yes many people still did live to ages we see today, but it would depend on many factors like class, diet etc
And yes off course they are averages, but like you point out people dont die like they use to people use to die much earlier all through history because of advances in medicine and general health (dental health for example)
On your last point what garbage, its never been shown to be false, every single recorded aspect and physical aspect bones, weapons etc back this up, humans all around the world including Indigenous Australians made the best of what they had and had the luxury of not knowing any other life to compare it too, but very rarely do cultures reject luxury of today for a lifestyle of yesterday, even indigenous Australians in remote communities dont think life was better before, lets reject, money, electricity etc, it doesn't happen for a reason, because we are all human and enjoy having these things.
The really is they had shorter life's and harsher life's, especially if you were a women because generally speaking in the past cultures have been very patriarchal based especially indigenous Australian culture, we still see these cultural aspects today in places like PNG or even in Indigenous Australia culture.
(if you want to argue against this, take it to the indigenous thread, although the whole topic is a bit done to death)
For the most part Indo, I kinda have to agree with you.
On the same token, you can almost say we've passed our peak. I don't think life is getting easier, especially for future generations.
agree with a lot of what ID and batfink say. I never said it would be the end of the world and I agree it is sad. I just worry what we will leave our kids and their kids with in 20, 50 100 years time. I am no expert and dont read to much into the science and policitics of it all but I just can't get my head around it. with all the population growth and the subsequent development that comes with it i would suggest it will greatly affect how people will live their lives and i fear it will be in a big negative way. you look at the floods and these aren't 1 in 50 year episodes anymore, they are happening every 5 years. PS: Viclocal and I aren't related and I would love to go off the grid but might have to get rid of the mrs if that is to happen
Well Vicbloke certainly isn't Viclocal way to civil, I'm glad you didn't take my criticism personally :D
zenagain wrote:For the most part Indo, I kinda have to agree with you.
On the same token, you can almost say we've passed our peak. I don't think life is getting easier, especially for future generations.
In what way do you think?
Maybe it's getting harder in a competitive type way, I think there is so much pressure on people these days to kinda compete in so many areas of life from schooling to work to keeping up with the jones or harder to own a house for example.
Sorry to rain on the love-in here but while life expectancy, living standards and 3rd world poverty have all improved in our lifetime at what cost to environment? Climate report after report categorically states the cost paid to date and currently being paid by environment is unsustainably way to high. Too much consumption by too many people.
That Indo in addition to what Guy said above.
Also, honestly, I think there has been a moral decline in society a a whole. It's a dog eat dog world now exacerbated by social media and driven by narcissism. Nobody seems to give a fuck about anybody else these days. Sure, disasters bring people together but look around you day by day, people don't even get to know their neighbours these days let alone help out a stranger.
What a load of frog shit. You often see people looking out for others (floods aside) and even I apologise for my blatant drop-ins these days. BTW sounds like vicb knows his neighbours a little too well.
indo-dreaming wrote:Well Vicbloke certainly isn't Viclocal way to civil, I'm glad you didn't take my criticism personally :D
All good ID. everyone has a different perspective on life. I love a good discussion regardless of what peoples opinions are. I can't complain. Born into a great family and a great country. Got three girls in my life that mean the world to me. I guess my comments are based on being a parent as I have always been a glass half full sort of person. My late mother once said to me 30 years ago that you never stop being a parent. this was after my sister got in trouble with the law in the USA. I now understand that more than ever and can't but pray that my kids and their kids will be as fortunate as me. I truly hope I am wrong with how I think things will play out.
So many urgently needing help , is the government disaster management response going to reinvest the money it has or start actually helping people like this nurse . My first thoughts were where is she supposed to isolate ?
This is what is left of my friends 2 br villa in Ballina when she got back home today. She is a nurse in Lismore, single mum, 2 kids. She has worked all pandemic, often deployed to the covid wards. There is no: electricity, water/food, ATM's/eftpos, internet. Now she has Covid pic.twitter.com/nDhztuvzND
— Anna Davidson | OzSAGE | #CovidisAirborne (@PMGPSC) March 4, 2022
Robwilliams wrote:Abc news
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-04/coal-fired-power-could-end-within...
Interesting read.
It's not unrealistic about 11 coal power fired stations decommission dates are within roughly the next ten years anyway, some in the next few years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal-fired_power_stations_in_Austr...
Almost ten more have decommission dates in the 2040 period only odd one latter, obviously all those dates will move forward.
Our most recent plant was built in 2009 and if that sounds recent, its crazy to think Germany generally seen as the most progressive country for energy actually opened a new coal fired power plant in 2020 https://www.powermag.com/germany-brings-last-new-coal-plant-online/
It's going to be so interesting to watch how things go over the next 10 to 15 years and how this transition juggle is managed, some huge challenges ahead to fill the gap that coal will leave, not so much during the day but during the night, personally i can't see it happening without a decent investment in gas peaking plants to support storage.
Are we going to look at property planning differently after these events?
abc news
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-06/qld-flood-weather-south-east-quee...
Only two episodes in, but I've been enjoying 'Australia, If You're Listening - Season 6' which is about climate change.
As it's on the ABC, I expect many people would have presupposed the context, but I've been happy with the neutrality of the content.
In fact, it doesn't indulge in any kulturekampf at all, as far as I can tell.
Worth a listen.
I get the feeling that even the possibility of the relocation of an entire town like Lismore wouldn't be enough to make a lot of people stop and consider the role of climate change and to acknowledge the bigger picture.
Reckon it might continue to be a case of a bulk of people being ok with simply dealing with the symptoms as they pop up as opposed to being party to a broadscale longterm plan.
I think the scale of the consequences are starting to become clear.
And that is what is already baked in.
Yep, this is what's baked in, plus we've got a lag effect, and then however long it takes on top of that to implement changes.
The question is, assuming politicians act, to what extent will people accept a hit to their "quality of life".
I don't see them having any choice in the matter around here.
if you can't afford million dollar plus property (still at risk from climate change), where can you go?
Can't relocate the entire Northern Rivers.
Plus the whole world wants to live here.
AndyM wrote:Yep, this is what's baked in, plus we've got a lag effect, and then however long it takes on top of that to implement changes.
The question is, assuming politicians act, to what extent will people accept a hit to their "quality of life".
Quality of life in which way? I am confident that a lot of quality doesn't need to be lost but which specific ones do you think will people lose?
I suppose I'm talking about a disposable lifestyle - plastics and electronic goods and the like. Maybe taking a slight hit with having to pay for different packaging in supermarkets. Something along the lines of give me convenience or give me death.
I expect that this will be used as a political wedge by some.
I used inverted commas around the term because in reality it won't decrease our quality of life, it will actually increase it.
To me, this is a fundamental concept that we need to understand.
Where does that leave us FR?
Wholesale construction of a CBD and housing estates on the (very fertile) plateau?
And the "less fortunate" can continue to take their chances on the flats?
Fuck, this is the movie Parasite in front of us.
Yep, and multiply that down every river and river valley on the East Coast.
The huge social upheaval that's been predicted for decades.
Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...
stunet wrote:Only two episodes in, but I've been enjoying 'Australia, If You're Listening - Season 6' which is about climate change.
As it's on the ABC, I expect many people would have presupposed the context, but I've been happy with the neutrality of the content.
In fact, it doesn't indulge in any kulturekampf at all, as far as I can tell.
Worth a listen.
Saw this comment at lunch so listened to both podcast episodes today while working, interesting to listen to the history, bit of slant on things but otherwise yeah fairly neutral in presentation considering the subject matter..
It seems strange now looking back to think that Nuclear energy wasn't considered more seriously in that 80-90s era, i hope a future podcast give a little incite into any historical aspect of that slant.
Supafreak wrote:Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...
Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%
"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...
Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%
"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...
@indo , what about growing food , the poorer nations will struggle , do you think the rest of the world will feed them ? They don’t do it now .
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:Mass starvation, extinctions, disasters: the new IPCC report’s grim predictions, and why adaptation efforts are falling behind https://theconversation.com/mass-starvation-extinctions-disasters-the-ne...
Humans have adapted extremely well to natural disasters over the last 100 years despite the world population nearly quadrupling deaths from natural disasters are down 92%
"Why Deaths From Hurricanes And Other Natural Disasters Are Lower Than Ever"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/27/why-deaths-...
“ hurricanes, floods, and other natural disasters aren’t getting worse. They’re getting better. Much better.”
Well that’s one way of looking at it.
Not sure if the people of south-east Queensland and Northern New South Wales would agree.
At a guess property prices would be down some large percentages around Brisbane and the Northern Rivers- i know i wouldn't be interested in purchasing and probably a large number that want out but now could be faced with more debt than property value.
.