COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster

Craig's picture
Craig started the topic in Wednesday, 18 Mar 2020 at 7:44pm

I've created a spreadsheet forecast which I'll update as we go..

There's also a website with live running data.. https://sites.google.com/view/stayhomeaustralia

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 5:48pm
sypkan wrote:

there is no such thing as objective

.

Actually if you trade markets there is and many other walks of life.

As to your "position on anything" I have no idea was just answering your question.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 6:05pm

Norman Swan sharing a preprint on the need to get a booster before 6 months. In the comments it has alot of people who got AZ both young and old angry and frightened. People saying they have tried to get boosters before 6 months but GPs sticking to ATAGI advice of waiting 6 months even though Omicron is causing breakthrough infections. XMAS might not be so merry.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 7:13pm

supafreak going back to the vaccination of children the short answer is that, at some stage, they should be vaccinated. There are arguments based on risk/benefit that make some sense now but they won't in a few months time when the case numbers spike with the removal of restrictions and the impact of Omicron. The risk of serious cases in children may be small but the risk of the vaccine is still much lower. If children are not vaccinated it will spread rapidly amongst them exposing those children with existing health problems to an unacceptable risk. Similarly unvaccinated children will pose an increased risk to any vulnerable adults they live with.
As someone in a vulnerable age group I am happy to wait for a booster, one because I am able to take measures to avoid the current low risk of infection, two because I would like to have peak immunity at the peak.of the risk which is a couple of months down the track. If I had to commute everyday on crowded public transport my attitude would probably be different.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 7:38pm

An interesting read if you have time on your side and can keep an open mind. 4 chapters. It's thorough and paints a good picture of vaccines, their history and where we're at right now....
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccin...
This particular part of the reading, an excerpt in chapter 2 stood out to me...
"In the current regulatory environment, companies run the studies of their own products. A Danish study found that 75% of drug company self-studies assessed were ghostwritten. A leading U.S. editor of a specialist journal estimated that 33% of articles submitted to his journal were ghostwritten by drug companies. These impostures don’t get adequately investigated by Congress because the pharmaceutical and health industries are now the highest-paying lobby in the country, having doled out at least $4.5 billion in the last two decades to politicians of both parties. “Pfizer’s PAC has been the most active,” STAT reporter Lev Facher writes, “sending 548 checks to various lawmakers and other industry groups—more checks than the actual number of elected officials in the House and Senate."

and, also this part of chapter 2
"In 2018, The New York Times’ pro-vaccine science writer, Melinda Wenner Moyer, noted with shock that she learned it was not uncommon among vaccine researchers to take the attitude that censoring bad news about their research was necessary, and that some who didn’t were ostracized by their peers:
'As a science journalist, I’ve written several articles to quell vaccine angst and encourage immunization. But lately, I’ve noticed that the cloud of fear surrounding vaccines is having another nefarious effect: It is eroding the integrity of vaccine science. In February I was awarded a fellowship by the nonpartisan Alicia Patterson Foundation to report on vaccines. Soon after, I found myself hitting a wall. When I tried to report on unexpected or controversial aspects of vaccine efficacy or safety, scientists often didn’t want to talk with me. When I did get them on the phone, a worrying theme emerged: Scientists are so terrified of the public’s vaccine hesitancy that they are censoring themselves, playing down undesirable findings and perhaps even avoiding undertaking studies that could show unwanted effects. Those who break these unwritten rules are criticized'

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 7:58pm

Chapter 3 gets pretty juicy. Compelling reading for everyone, no matter which side of the debate you're on.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccin...

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 8:00pm

@blindboy , If omicron is proven to be less virulent and only giving very mild symptoms then I can’t see the point in vaccination for kids 5 -11 . It seems from reports around the world that it easily infects those already vaccinated so using children as an excuse that if unvaccinated will pass it on to others doesn’t really add up . Here’s an article from the conversation and remember these trials which were very small , weren’t for the omicron varient ( don’t think it was for delta even ) A couple of statements like this one “ No data is yet available on the real world effectiveness of the vaccine to protect against hospitalisation or infection in children aged 5-11, however this will emerge.“ Doesn’t convince me on the risk versus benefit. Are we also expected to give kids boosters every 6 months or less ? The reported side effects are said to be similar to adults. I know some adults really got knocked around . My 5 year old daughter has had more vaccinations than your average Australian kid and never had a reaction, no sore arm , no headache, nothing. This vaccine has me very concerned . https://theconversation.com/safety-side-effects-allergies-and-doses-the-...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 8:53pm

Fair enough for the situation as it stands. Better data will start to emerge as the pressure on case numbers rise. I think it will support my view that vaccination is the way to go......but that is not certain.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 9:00pm

bluediamond, when researchers come to expect that their results will be distorted, unfairly criticised and used to undermine good health policy, being human, they may go into defensive mode and refuse to discuss their work. Blame them.if you.like but the fundamental problem is that good science is being attacked for idelogical and political reasons.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 9:01pm

187-B7-EE6-21-DB-4-B84-AC72-0-D2747-DCA127

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 9:12pm

So? What did you think? That it could be done in vitro? Or maybe that we should just abandon research into medications for children? My daughter had a severe allergic reaction to apricots! Every new substance, natural or not that enters our body is an experiment. Zero risk does not exist.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 9:41pm
blindboy wrote:

So? What did you think? That it could be done in vitro? Or maybe that we should just abandon research into medications for children? My daughter had a severe allergic reaction to apricots! Every new substance, natural or not that enters our body is an experiment. Zero risk does not exist.

This isn’t research , its an experiment that is being rushed, for what reason ? It would be different if millions of children were dying from covid, they aren’t though. TB kills more children but where’s the billons of $$$ to fund a new vaccine as the new strain is resistant to old vaccine and antibiotic treatment. Did you watch superbug era ? https://iview.abc.net.au/video/DO1956H003S00

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 9:48pm
blindboy wrote:

supafreak going back to the vaccination of children the short answer is that, at some stage, they should be vaccinated. There are arguments based on risk/benefit that make some sense now but they won't in a few months time when the case numbers spike with the removal of restrictions and the impact of Omicron. The risk of serious cases in children may be small but the risk of the vaccine is still much lower. If children are not vaccinated it will spread rapidly amongst them exposing those children with existing health problems to an unacceptable risk. Similarly unvaccinated children will pose an increased risk to any vulnerable adults they live with.
As someone in a vulnerable age group I am happy to wait for a booster, one because I am able to take measures to avoid the current low risk of infection, two because I would like to have peak immunity at the peak.of the risk which is a couple of months down the track. If I had to commute everyday on crowded public transport my attitude would probably be different.

You want to vaccinate healthy young kids to keep you safe? Potentially put kids at risk to make you feel ok?
You are sick mate and that’s child abuse.

People have got the jab through pressure of losing their job, I hate to see the pressure the corrupt government is going to apply to try and get jabs in kids arms all without releasing any data.
I bet my house that bluey will get vaccinated early next year.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 10:51pm

Do i get to keep your house Burleigh. Sounds good to me!!
After reading the above article i posted, and if anyone actually takes the time to read it, you'd have to be insane to now go ahead and get it based on the evolving understanding of it's effectiveness and its affects.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 10:52pm
Roadkill wrote:
blindboy wrote:

Nothing to say but here he is saying it anyway. Same old shit. Different day.

Yep…irrelevant last week, irrelevant this week, will be irrelevant next week.

ouch!

you guys really sorted me out there, with your comandeering comand of the knowledge, nuance, and facts of the debate...

sorry for asking the question that must be on the mind of every responsible parent across the developed world...

ie., is it really necessary and justified to vaccinate my 5 year old child?

especially considering the virus is now showing signs of fizzing out...

...what was I thinking?

so irresponsible...

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Saturday, 11 Dec 2021 at 11:21pm

*effects *or affects. Maybe effects. Whoops. Apologies grammar police.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 8:58am

Here's one for the Freedumb fighters on this forum.
Something about fools and money being easily parted.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-price-of-freedom-how-anti-lockdow...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:08am

The usual suspects with the usual blend of random facts and illogical conclusions, but there they go anyway, setting up their deep knowledge (ha ha ha) of the issues against independent expert opinion armed only with undeserved self-confidence, self-righteousness, a sense of outrage and irrelevancies. (What exactly does the advent of resistant strains of TB have to do with covid vaccination? Will we ever understand the thought processes that can make that leap? Probably not.)
The arguments for child vaccination are easily found. WHO, Johns Hopkins etc etc etc. Since they are based on valid statistical analysis and draw logical conclusions, you need to specifically identify where they are wrong.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:42am

Ahhhhh your third vaccine and following vaccines now every 5 months. Because it works so well they want to give it to you sooner.
Sydney entering a new wave of covid, even though its 93% vaccinated? Must be because they gave boosters at 6 months instead of five.
QLD premier causing division saying the virus hunts down the unvaccinated, which is a mind bending statement.
Welcome to the circus, im going surfing, un jabbed, then ill get a coffee, unjabbed, then i will workout unjabbed and live my healthy life 100% free of adverse reactions & 99% + free of kicking the bucket from covid.

I like those odds

overthefalls's picture
overthefalls's picture
overthefalls Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:42am

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:46am
Vic Local wrote:

Here's one for the Freedumb fighters on this forum.
Something about fools and money being easily parted.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-price-of-freedom-how-anti-lockdow...

Happy to support some of them, others like Avi, not so much.

I like the play on words "freedumb" it can also be used for you, you're double/triple jabbed for your freedumb, yet if youre a contact of covid your freedumbs are still taken away.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:48am
overthefalls wrote:

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

For anyone that supports vaccine mandates?

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:53am
blindboy wrote:

The usual suspects with the usual blend of random facts and illogical conclusions, but there they go anyway, setting up their deep knowledge (ha ha ha) of the issues against independent expert opinion armed only with undeserved self-confidence, self-righteousness, a sense of outrage and irrelevancies. (What exactly does the advent of resistant strains of TB have to do with covid vaccination? Will we ever understand the thought processes that can make that leap? Probably not.)
The arguments for child vaccination are easily found. WHO, Johns Hopkins etc etc etc. Since they are based on valid statistical analysis and draw logical conclusions, you need to specifically identify where they are wrong.

You ask what does TB have to do with covid vaccinations ? I’m just stating that TB kills way more children than covid does , so why isn’t there a push to create a new vaccine for TB ? The answer is simple, TB effects mainly 3rd world countries so there is no money in making a new vaccine . There is however plenty to be made from endless jabs into the arms of children. Can you please supply your evidence based links on why vaccination for 5 to 11 year olds is a good thing .

old-dog's picture
old-dog's picture
old-dog Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:54am

Good to see that 99% of people over 60 are intelligent enough to take the advice of 99% of experts and get fully vaxxed. No one gives a fuck what a tiny percentage of delusional, selfish, politically manipulated narcissistic anti vaxxer sheep believe.
Its never too late to wake up and emerge from the rabbit hole and see the light.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:02am
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Here's one for the Freedumb fighters on this forum.
Something about fools and money being easily parted.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-price-of-freedom-how-anti-lockdow...

Happy to support some of them, others like Avi, not so much.

I like the play on words "freedumb" it can also be used for you, you're double/triple jabbed for your freedumb, yet if youre a contact of covid your freedumbs are still taken away.

Silly article, people always make money from issues, you can say the same about any movement especially one's people are passionate about, even feral/terrorist organisations like extortion rebellion sell all kinds of crap or others do in their name.

And fuck me dead, look at black lives matter, the biggest cash in scam in history.

Now where has the billions from that gone???

I know where some went, i know some *cough cough* anti capitalist/trained marxist now have quite nice property portfolio's.

As for Rebel News & Avi, im sure there is two sides to the story.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 9:58am

Where are all the Malaria fighters? Another major killer of children.

Oh thats right its a problem in 3rd world countries and not a rich white mans virus to exploit billions.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:05am

In regard to Children being vaccinated for Covid.

You have to be a bit skeptical at this stage where the push for this is coming from?

Normally with vaccination's in children there is good reason to vaccinate.

1. The child is at risk of the disease and it's effects.

2. The vaccination completely stops transmission.

But this is not the case with Covid or Covid vaccinations.

Id hate to say it, but the reality in this case although extremely slim is the child having a serious reaction to the vaccine rather than Covid itself and there could even be advantages for a child to get a degree of natural immunity to Covid built up.

Id honestly prefer not to get my kids vaccinated against Covid, but i might be forced into doing so if they need to be vaccinated to travel to Indo or at least skip the quarantine requirement.

Kind of a weird feeling as i guess its how others feel that dont was to get Covid vaccinated but are forced into it.

overthefalls's picture
overthefalls's picture
overthefalls Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:07am
burleigh wrote:
overthefalls wrote:

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

For anyone that supports vaccine mandates?

No, just those who think that covid is a hoax and those who think that the vaccines don’t work.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:14am

"I know where some went, i know some *cough cough* anti capitalist/trained marxist now have quite nice property portfolio's.

As for Rebel News & Avi, im sure there is two sides to the story."

Really ID, Tell us exactly who is making billions from BLM. And while you're at it, you could name the people who have nice property portfolios on the back of the BLM industry. ID, you really can talk absolute shit about BLM. They live rent free in your head mate.

As for two sides to the story re rebel news and Avi the wife basher: well no, there's only 1 side to the story. They are simply for-profit activists who are happy to use racism, fear and just flat out bullshit to improve their bottom line.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:22am

supa. you were really unable to find this or similar explanations yourself?
https://www.who.int/news/item/24-11-2021-interim-statement-on-covid-19-v...

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:24am
overthefalls wrote:
burleigh wrote:
overthefalls wrote:

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

For anyone that supports vaccine mandates?

No, just those who think that covid is a hoax and those who think that the vaccines don’t work.

For the record i have never said covid is a hoax, It is dangerous for older, immune compromised and the obese.

IMO it's not dangerous for fit healthy people and especially not kids. the vaccine however is.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:28am
indo-dreaming wrote:

In regard to Children being vaccinated for Covid.

You have to be a bit skeptical at this stage where the push for this is coming from?

Normally with vaccination's in children there is good reason to vaccinate.

1. The child is at risk of the disease and it's effects.

2. The vaccination completely stops transmission.

But this is not the case with Covid or Covid vaccinations.

Id hate to say it, but the reality in this case although extremely slim is the child having a serious reaction to the vaccine rather than Covid itself and there could even be advantages for a child to get a degree of natural immunity to Covid built up.

Id honestly prefer not to get my kids vaccinated against Covid, but i might be forced into doing so if they need to be vaccinated to travel to Indo or at least skip the quarantine requirement.

Kind of a weird feeling as i guess its how others feel that dont was to get Covid vaccinated but are forced into it.

yep

and not to mention the advice given - just months ago i might add!! - was that 5 year olds don't need vaccination, as they will grow up with the virus endemic and develope an immune system to suit...

now I loathe to mention the term 'immune system' as it instantly triggers some, ...and gives a woody to others... but it did seem reasonable advice, especially combined with your points above

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:46am
blindboy wrote:

supa. you were really unable to find this or similar explanations yourself?
https://www.who.int/news/item/24-11-2021-interim-statement-on-covid-19-v...

So that’s all the “ evidence “ you need ? Don’t know why I was expecting more . From your article “ Older children and younger adolescents (5 to 14 years) account for 7% (7 058 748) of reported global cases and 0.1% (1 328) of reported global deaths “ TB kills 1.5 million people a year , about 250,000 of them are children , why did I compare the two ? Surely you can figure it out.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:54am
Vic Local wrote:

"I know where some went, i know some *cough cough* anti capitalist/trained marxist now have quite nice property portfolio's.

As for Rebel News & Avi, im sure there is two sides to the story."

Really ID, Tell us exactly who is making billions from BLM. And while you're at it, you could name the people who have nice property portfolios on the back of the BLM industry. ID, you really can talk absolute shit about BLM. They live rent free in your head mate.

As for two sides to the story re rebel news and Avi the wife basher: well no, there's only 1 side to the story. They are simply for-profit activists who are happy to use racism, fear and just flat out bullshit to improve their bottom line.

Okay i should have said millions not billions, they officially made 90 million last year, that's just the official organisation and where did that money go?

Fuck knows and then imagine the other grifters using the name and movement, biggest divisive scam in history.

And seems like you have been living under a rock, one of the founders Patrisse Khan-Cullors the one who is a self proclaimed "trained marxist" has built a property portfolio of about 3 million up on it all, ironically all in predominant white neighbourhoods too.

"Inside BLM co-founder Patrisse Khan-Cullors’ million-dollar real estate buying binge"

https://nypost.com/2021/04/10/inside-blm-co-founder-patrisse-khan-cullor...

And now left the movement, cash in cash out i guess.

God the irony of this comment

"They are simply for-profit activists who are happy to use racism, fear and just flat out bullshit to improve their bottom line."

BTW. As far as i know "the Age" is also a business that makes money, more irony was when the ABC critiqued Rebel News for selling/promoting clothing etc, with the complete hypocrisy of the ABC at one stage even having ABC shops, i mean seriously people are free to make and promote their business to make money thats the whole point of business, nobody is forcing you to give your money away for a product or a cause.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:55am

Absolute bullshit ID.
Worse than blowin's crap.
Your story is a joke mate. Here's the fact check.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/19/fact-check-misl...
Like I said, BLM is living rent free in your head mate. you'll grab hold of anything to cut that movement down. It's starting to look like you really don't like black people.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 10:58am

Just for some context, the article i posted above was written by a vaccinated doctor. He's not anti vax, he supports vaccination in the right situations for people that take them. He's writing an opinion piece/historical timeline of the path the vaccines have taken. His summation is that the main problem with mass vaccination as he sees it is that coercion creates mistrust, and by coercing a large population, you're making your job that much more difficult to get people vaccinated. I
I'm open to all views, so long as they're not aggressive or force fed to me.
Here's some of that closing message. I reckon alot can be taken out of this by both sides of the debate. There's people on both sides who's views are so rigid, they're missing the evolving science and new empirical data that's developing re. the vaccines and the potential harm they can cause.

"Indeed, demonizing people for having doubts is the worst move we can make, especially since there are serious problems in our drug and vaccine regulatory systems. Some health organizations have become concerned enough about the effects of non-transparency that a group has formed, made up of the Leslie Dan Faculty of Pharmacy, University of Toronto, Transparency International, and the WHO Collaborating Centre (WHO CC) for Governance, Accountability, and Transparency in the Pharmaceutical Sector. In a report released recently, the alliance analyzed 86 registered clinical vaccine trials across 20 COVID vaccines, and found only 12% have made their protocols available as of May 2021. Scores of key decisions affecting the public were never made available. The U.S. government should immediately give the public and outside scientists access to raw data on which studies are based, and the minutes of meetings where major decisions are made on policies like mandates; we need the kinds of transparency Peter Doshi has asked for from pharma, and Kesselheim did from the FDA. Doshi and some colleagues from Oxford have asked, for instance, what the rationale was for the regulatory agencies to allow pharma companies not to choose hospitalization, death, or viral transmission as “endpoints” in the authorization studies. Let’s see the internal deliberations; let’s see the minutes of crucial meetings. All these researchers are doing is being true to the motto of the Royal Society, the first national scientific institution ever established: Nullias in verba, “Take Nobody’s Word For It.”

LOS ANGELES EXAMINER/USC LIBRARIES/CORBIS VIA GETTY IMAGES

Acknowledging severe problems in regulatory agencies or within pharma doesn’t mean believing that everything that system produces is tainted, or that all the people in those institutions are corrupt. In fact, it defends those with the most integrity—because it is they who are most frustrated by a system that requires radical restructuring and new leadership. Even if—especially if—we think of ourselves as “pro-vaccine,” we should want to rescue this extraordinary technology from the flawed and broken system of poor regulation, insufficiently transparent testing, and manipulative messaging.

But many are choosing instead to replace this conversation about the system underlying the vaccine rollout with vaccine mandates—a strategy that troubles even some of those who have been very invested in the success of the vaccines.

“Right now with these vaccine mandates, and vaccine passports, this coercive thing is turning a lot of people away from vaccines, and not trusting them for very understandable reasons,” Kulldorff says. “Those who are pushing these vaccine mandates and vaccine passports—vaccine fanatics I would call them—to me they have done much more damage during this one year than the anti-vaxxers have done in two decades. I would even say that these vaccine fanatics, they are the biggest anti-vaxxers that we have right now.” Those congratulating the United States on mandates “working” conveniently leave out that each of those “wins” is potentially a recruit for a resentful army that does not believe in vaccines. Imagine a scenario—already unfolding in Israel—in which regular boosters are deemed necessary: How easy do you think it will be to drag those people into this action every six months? Wouldn’t it have been more effective to have enabled them to own these actions for themselves much earlier—thereby making it more likely that they would sustain them?"

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 11:24am

aside from that being the lamest lacking evidence inconclusive 'fact check' ever...

the point is, the blm chick has done very very well for herself in the american capitalist system, despite all the apparent evilness and oppresion...

a system she wants to burn to the ground and start again, with some neo-marxist ip inspired utopia, as the current system is irredeemable and irretrievable from her perspective...

if you can't see the contradictions and hypocrisy wrapped up in there, well, then you are irredeemable and irretrievable

she's a fucken grifter very similar to your little mate avi

https://mobile.twitter.com/najeeali/status/1382181828530884616

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 11:21am

supa the TB issue is completely irrelevant to the decision to vaccinate children in Australia against covid. From what you have said I assume you are in favour of government funding for efforts to improve the health in developing nations and that you donate generously to charities that do such work. If not let me suggest a regular donation to Surf Aid or another charity known for their effective field work.
This is from the conclusion of that paper
"There are benefits of vaccinating children and adolescents that go beyond the direct health benefits. Vaccination that decreases COVID transmission in this age group may reduce transmission from children and adolescents to older adults, and may help reduce the need for mitigation measures in schools. Minimizing disruptions to education for children and maintenance of their overall well-being, health and safety are important considerations. Countries’ strategies related to COVID-19 control should facilitate children’s participation in education and other aspects of social life, and minimize school closures, even without vaccinating children and adolescents (24). UNICEF and WHO have developed guidance on how to minimize transmission in schools and keep schools open, regardless of vaccination of school-aged children(25)."

So, in the judgement of the WHO there will be a net health benefit to the child by being vaccinated as well as decreasing disruption to education which has been substantial in some countries and is likely to be a problem in Australia quite soon as case numbers rise. Then, thirdly, there are benefits to other members of the community....most notably the members of the child's own family. If you want to discount all that with your own children, good luck.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 11:24am

Rubbish sypkan,
She's had multiple jobs over the last couple of decades and earns FA from BLM. Hasn't taken a cent from them since 2019.
She's an academic, writer, and on the speaker's circuit. The houses are pretty bloody ordinary and you have no idea what they are being used for. The Murdoch scum press like to portray this situation as someone living a luxury life by skimming money from BLM. The reality is something completely different. They'd get sued for that shit in Australia but the USA is a defamer's paradise.
It's not like she's doing an Avi the wife basher and running sham court cases paid for by his idiot following.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 11:28am

@blindboy , from your article “ Vaccination that decreases COVID transmission in this age group may reduce transmission from children and adolescents to older adults, “ the word “ may “ in my opinion is not “ evidence “ I donate monthly to a village in Bali that has many health issues besides covid . What about yourself ? I know where every cent of the money I donate goes , how about you ?

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 11:55am
Vic Local wrote:

Absolute bullshit ID.
Worse than blowin's crap.
Your story is a joke mate. Here's the fact check.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/19/fact-check-misl...
Like I said, BLM is living rent free in your head mate. you'll grab hold of anything to cut that movement down. It's starting to look like you really don't like black people.

Your link is the joke it proves nothing and is intentionally misleading.

While true she might not have a 24/7 paid role at BLM, she does have her own business as a speaker etc and then gets employed on a job per job basis by BLM, and as founder obviously first in line for whatever job she wants and still has obviously made very good money from it all, i don't recall the exact figures she was getting paid for each gig, but it was very nice money something like $20K USA per event, she didnt just acquire a 3 million dollar property portfolio within a short time from working at Maccas.

BTW. There is countless videos on YouTube of black people coming out and calling out her scam.

Anyway ironically im hung over as all fuck after getting on the piss last night with some Indo boys most of which skin is darker than many African Americans.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 12:06pm

ok vic vocal...

totally ignore my point and move the goalposts somewhere else

to your (new) points...

the facts of the matter are, she drew a 'professional' wage from blm and her other exploits... a very comfortable capitalist professional wage...

nothing wrong with that.... good luck to her... but it does kinda distance oneself from the burning and looting of ma and pa businesses for her agenda

and it does kinda contradict the oppression narrative she's pushing, a narrative that says the system is evil and irredeemable, and we should burn it all down, along with the family unit model... and start again in the image of her neo-marxist ip inspired utopia...

'houses pretty bloody ordinary'

bahahahahahaha

love to see that 'uninhabitable' cottage you are air bnb-ing on the surf coast

the hypocrisy, contradictions, and justifications of the very capitalist ip cultists know no bounds...

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 12:19pm

https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/public+content/sa+health+...

Here is a link to SA government press releases of daily covid cases in SA

Dec 1 to Dec 11
Vaccinated covid cases: 56
Unvaccinated covid Cases: 4

December 2 is especially spicy with 18 covid cases - 16 fully vaccinated, 0 not vaccinated and 2 unknown.
https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/public+content/sa+health+...

Yet, we have our premiers telling us that Covid hunts down the unvaccinated? and its a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

Sydney covid rise is mostly in vaccinated establishments (pubs, clubs etc) and occurring in mostly vaccinated people.

You're fully vaxxed, and a contact of a positive case, yet you will still be thrown in quarantine with tests every few days. but you got it for your freedumbs (thanks Vic)

When will you say enough is enough?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 12:21pm

supa you ignore the fact that there are two benefits to the child in; the reduced risk of disease far outweighing the risks from vaccination and reduced disruption to their education. The flow on benefits to others simply mirror the benefit children have had through adult vaccination.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 12:40pm

@blindboy , when you can post “ real evidence “ not “ may reduce transmission “ then I “ may “ take notice, but until then , no deal . I’m surprised you take what you have put up as real evidence. Anyway enjoy your day my morning duties are over and I’m off for a surf . Its also worth mentioning that omicron isn’t delta and it soon “ MAY “ be the dominant varient.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 12:56pm

my thoughts exactly on reading that little passage supafreak...

ie. they 'may' just be clutching at straws, and hence 'may' just be displaying a gross overuse of the term 'may' ... as this 'may' facilitate the ambiguousness they are seeking, as there 'may' well just be a distinct lack of actual evidence..

maybe...

"There are benefits of vaccinating children and adolescents that go beyond the direct health benefits. Vaccination that decreases COVID transmission in this age group may reduce transmission from children and adolescents to older adults, and may help reduce the need for mitigation measures in schools. Minimizing disruptions to education for children and maintenance of their overall well-being..."

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 1:03pm

What a joke.
You clowns read a hit piece on a BLM leader by the Murdoch mob and you fall for it hook line and sinker.
Let's have a look at this line from sypkan. "she drew a 'professional' wage from blm and her other exploits... a very comfortable capitalist professional wage..."
Patrisse Khan-Cullors was paid $120,000 over six years by BLM. Do the maths idiots. 20K a year. Even if she's only working 3 days a week, her "very comfortable capitalist professional wage" comes out at $16ph.
You blokes have no idea if she part owns those three modest homes, what they are used for, and how much the mortgage is. What we do know is the money hasn't come from her $16 per hour wage from BLM. It's a fair assumption that those houses were purchased off the back of her successful book and other better paid work.
Looks to me like you blokes really REALLY can't handle a smart black women doing OK. ID specifically mentioned that the houses were in predominantly white neighbourhoods. OUCH. Tells us exactly where the nasty black person hurt you when she had the audacity to buy a house in the white folks' area.
You blokes have ticked off pretty much all the pathetic racist tropes favoured by poor white trash to attack black people.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 1:36pm

lame vicvocal

maths

assumptions

book cooking

etc.

call me stupid, but i wouldn't expect anyone to draw a wage from a supposedly grassroots organisation like blm...

yes naive and idealistic too

so, considering the new fake left are totally cool with slave labour trading corporate dogs like nike giving their 'grass roots' cause corporate sponsorship level support...

which is somewhat hypocritical... considering the whole argument is around slave labour...

but putting that little hypocrisy nugget aside... sure draw a modest wage... but your figures and assumptions are a pathetic attempt at best...

she's done very well out of all her exploits, despite all the oppression and irredeemability of the system she advocates burning to the ground, she's cleaning up with a very healthy property portfolio of not really 'very ordinary' houses....

hypocrisy...

have I mentioned the hypocrisy?

and the well known trait amongst normal people, that they despise hypocrisy, ...really really despise hypocrisy, ...even over and above those people that they know are taking them for a ride... the right basically...

people hate hypocrisy

but the new fake left are totally cool with it... as long as the (capitalist) dollars flow....

they live hypocrisy

as do you

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ricky-gervais-teaches-hollywood-...

fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21 Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 1:22pm

Wow, VL, the king of redirection. Turning a covid thread into a thread about race.

gragagan's picture
gragagan's picture
gragagan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 1:46pm
fitzroy-21 wrote:

Wow, VL, the king of redirection. Turning a covid thread into a thread about race.

You need to look closer it was ID that redirected by bashing BLM (as usual)

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Sunday, 12 Dec 2021 at 1:52pm

yeh enough of that...

let's go back to is it reasonable to require parents to vaccinate their 5 year old children in the current situation?

and perhaps just as important... is it reasonable that certain, forces, people, ideologies, think the above question should not even be asked....

now that's some messed up, overeaching, totalitarian, unreasonableness, from my perspective...