Mainstream Media Vs the culture of resuuuuurch.
Gotta love MSM
A mid 2020 recognition of mildness of Covid 19 but enthusiasm for a whole set of opportunities it offers from a powerful globalist:
An insight into the thinking of Klaus Martin Schwab an economist best known as the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum way back in 2020 in his book: Covid 19 the Great Reset:
"not letting the crisis go to waste" (p.145 or p.142f)
"making good use of the pandemic" (p.145)
even though way back in mid 2020 he notes:
"the consequences of Covid-19 in terms of health and mortality will be mild compared to previous pandemics. At the end of June 2020, Covid-19 has killed less than 0,006% of the world population." (p.247) And admitting that "the average age of those dying of Covid-19 is almost 80 years [in Italy]" (p.221)
But his book repeatedly propagates the need for, and benefits of, mass surveillance (contact tracing) and the necessity of lockdowns.
His enthusiasm for Covid knows no bounds...
"The possibilities for change and the resulting new order are now unlimited and only bound to our imagination" and "We should take advantage of this unprecedented opportunity to reimagine our world" (p.19)
Fertile ground for mandate heaven among the elites.
Unintended consequences is one thing, but intended consequences is another.
Haha, nice trolling frog
Yawn x 1000.
Pretty much from Feb 2020 everyone knew covid wasn't severe, but was novel and likely to sweep the world so by scale so overall it was a concern. lockdowns were a neccessity, and were overall actually not as strict as they could have been.
It was a dress rehearsal for when something more severe comes.
We can either use covid as a way to improve our global, human response to such a threat.
Or, like the opportunistic f-wits of social media, we can use covid as an chance to question solid democratic institutions, lose faith in science and medicine and instill fear in previously law abiding and reasonable people.
You guys are still going...Replaced the covid thread with this one?
Anyway, it's all about the price of human life in a specific society. Goes back to this:
1) My friends and family from Europe tell me that I live in a fascist country. Based on what they saw on the news, Australia is a fascist prison on the bottom of the planet, locking people up, and for what? 100 odd old people dying every day? Who cares about a few hundred or thousand old people dying? Locking things up for that is not worth it, they think it's crazy. BTW most earn their money in tourism so I can understand the bias.
A different view is:
2) Saving human life (or minimising casualties) justifies the action. Who wants to live in a society where we didn't even try to control the upcoming threat? Any saved life (old/young/male/female...) is a great outcome and the action is valued by society. We don't want to see hundreds of preventable deaths on daily basis.
We never fully settled between these 2 and a lot of it has to do with cultural norms, and values that a society holds. In Australia, we chose option 2 (and it was a good decision in my opinion), elsewhere they went hard with 1. Many are floating in between and resort to populism; making decisions on the go to keep relative social peace. And I don't think there will ever be a universal agreement on which direction to take.
flollo wrote:You guys are still going...Replaced the covid thread with this one?
Anyway, it's all about the price of human life in a specific society. Goes back to this:
1) My friends and family from Europe tell me that I live in a fascist country. Based on what they saw on the news, Australia is a fascist prison on the bottom of the planet, locking people up, and for what? 100 odd old people dying every day? Who cares about a few hundred or thousand old people dying? Locking things up for that is not worth it, they think it's crazy. BTW most earn their money in tourism so I can understand the bias.
A different view is:
2) Saving human life (or minimising casualties) justifies the action. Who wants to live in a society where we didn't even try to control the upcoming threat? Any saved life (old/young/male/female...) is a great outcome and the action is valued by society. We don't want to see hundreds of preventable deaths on daily basis.
We never fully settled between these 2 and a lot of it has to do with cultural norms, and values that a society holds. In Australia, we chose option 2 (and it was a good decision in my opinion), elsewhere they went hard with 1. Many are floating in between and resort to populism; making decisions on the go to keep relative social peace. And I don't think there will ever be a universal agreement on which direction to take.
Your family in Europe are right.
Saving human life. give me a break. Did our death toll rise? Or did we lock down the entire country to prevent people dying from Covid that would have died from a common cold. Look at the average age of death from Covid.
@burleigh I'm not going to go into a debate about this. Just presenting the crux of an issue and stating the obvious: people will never collectively agree on which was/is the best way. Different cultures have different values. The majority will likely impose their views on the minority (sometimes the opposite happens). Some will say democracy is a 60%-40% problem which is probably correct.
....and on this particular issue, the 40% (or maybe in this case, the 4%), are yet to stop whinging online.
Stok wrote:....and on this particular issue, the 40% (or maybe in this case, the 4%), are yet to stop whinging online.
4% lol. I know plenty of double jabbed that are not happy with what's happened/happening. Don't get confused basic boy. Loads of people were forced to choose between loosing an income and getting the jab.
Stok wrote:Yawn x 1000.
Pretty much from Feb 2020 everyone knew covid wasn't severe, but was novel and likely to sweep the world so by scale so overall it was a concern. lockdowns were a neccessity, and were overall actually not as strict as they could have been.
It was a dress rehearsal for when something more severe comes.
We can either use covid as a way to improve our global, human response to such a threat.
Or, like the opportunistic f-wits of social media, we can use covid as an chance to question solid democratic institutions, lose faith in science and medicine and instill fear in previously law abiding and reasonable people.
Which 'science and medicine ' are you referring to. Could you specify @stok?
“ solid democratic institutions “ ….what , like the FDA ? https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments... and where do FDA directors usually end up ?
Hmm....
He sure waffles on a lot without actually saying much. I remember even before the vaccines were rolled out they said that even people who had mild symptoms showed signs that they had had a heart attack when they had a scan. The long-term effects of covid are still unknown so how can he say non covid related deaths when most people have now had it and some could be like ticking time bombs. Anti vaxxers always find a way to blame everything on the jab to reinforce their "own truth."
flollo wrote:You guys are still going...Replaced the covid thread with this one?
Anyway, it's all about the price of human life in a specific society. Goes back to this:
1) My friends and family from Europe tell me that I live in a fascist country. Based on what they saw on the news, Australia is a fascist prison on the bottom of the planet, locking people up, and for what? 100 odd old people dying every day? Who cares about a few hundred or thousand old people dying? Locking things up for that is not worth it, they think it's crazy. BTW most earn their money in tourism so I can understand the bias.
A different view is:
2) Saving human life (or minimising casualties) justifies the action. Who wants to live in a society where we didn't even try to control the upcoming threat? Any saved life (old/young/male/female...) is a great outcome and the action is valued by society. We don't want to see hundreds of preventable deaths on daily basis.
We never fully settled between these 2 and a lot of it has to do with cultural norms, and values that a society holds. In Australia, we chose option 2 (and it was a good decision in my opinion), elsewhere they went hard with 1. Many are floating in between and resort to populism; making decisions on the go to keep relative social peace. And I don't think there will ever be a universal agreement on which direction to take.
Good post.
We're often referred to as a nanny state, with strict controls on all sorts of things - speed limits, work health and safety spring to mind.
Flollo's point matches that perfectly - we just as a nation value human life higher than others.
I agree with the basis of flollo's post above, but i also think with the beauty of hindsight surely you have to admit that things went too far in many ways???
And i think responsibility needs to be taken on both a federal and state level especially in Victoria, the real problem is it became less about health and more about politics.
Some points:
The jab and mandates: obviously i was always pro jab, but the narrative of jab preventing transmission was wrong and media and leaders knew this, mandates shouldn't have happened in anyway once we knew the jab did basically nothing to protect others.
Restrictions on international travel went way too far, it was never going to be easy but Australians should have been able to leave and arrive easier.
The lockdowns went way too far especially in Victoria, the lines were crossed on individual rights and freedoms.
The way authorities dealt with or treated some people who opposed lockdowns or the jab went way too far.
While i think overall Australia did very well with Covid I think it's important to acknowledge things went to far in many ways and learn from this and not let it go that far again.
Of course it's easy to say this with the beauty of hindsight.
indo-dreaming wrote:I agree with the basis of flollo's post above, but i also think with the beauty of hindsight surely you have to admit that things went too far in many ways???
And i think responsibility needs to be taken on both a federal and state level especially in Victoria, the real problem is it became less about health and more about politics.
Some points:
The jab and mandates: obviously i was always pro jab, but the narrative of jab preventing transmission was wrong and media and leaders knew this, mandates shouldn't have happened in anyway once we knew the jab did basically nothing to protect others.
Restrictions on international travel went way too far, it was never going to be easy but Australians should have been able to leave and arrive easier.
The lockdowns went way too far especially in Victoria, the lines were crossed on individual rights and freedoms.
The way authorities dealt with or treated some people who opposed lockdowns or the jab went way too far.
While i think overall Australia did very well with Covid I think it's important to acknowledge things went to far in many ways and learn from this and not let it go that far again.
Of course it's easy to say this with the beauty of hindsight.
Yep, agree that things went too far, which I guess shows how cumbersome and sluggish bureaucracy can be.
Once decisions are made, policy drawn up, legislation too if it's needed, all personnel singing from the same hymn sheet across multiple levels of government and various departments that don't usually work with each other, and then the public messaging is announced....well, it becomes difficult to turn ship when new data comes in.
New decisions, new policies, new legislation, new messaging, and it might change again after that.
Our govt and public departments aren't designed for rapid and unpredictable changes.
I think you let our leaders off too easy. These public health measures imposed were unthinkable pre pandemic. They should be held to account. Not excused because of a culture of glacial bureaucratic process. They were pretty fluid and rapid to impose lockdowns surely the opposite applies. Hindsight is a cop out. Just look at the bloody mess we are in.
Yeah, I don't know. I can't see the benefits that any leader got from withholding freedoms. Felt to me like the Sword of Damocles hung lower than at any other time in recent memory. Public sentiment was volatile; one false move this way or that and they were gone.
Not saying there shouldn't be some repercussions, but I've a tendency to ask more questions than definitively point a finger.
We all absolutely have the right to refuse recommended medical treatment so there was always a "tension" between the rights of an individual (to jab in a timely manner or not to jab at all) and public health authorities /govt's in the Covid pandemic.
Early on there wasn't a vaccine at all so public health authorities had nothing but isolation. While I got the jabs I felt very uneasy with (1) criticism of people who didn't; and (2) how no jab ceased being a personal decision for some to an anti govt quasi political push. To say some politicians didn't play into this sentiment is naive.
Further, unique to AU there was also "tension" between the States and Federal govt over constitutional /legal roles leading to less than ideal different approaches from State to State and between the States and Feds. I would argue the basis of this tension was an ideological and most certainly didn't help anyone.
Did we go too far? Overall, all things considered I really don't know, but did the WA govt go too far locking the state up thereby allowing pretty much the majority of people in WA to live normal lives while everywhere else was in/out of lockdowns for 2 years? If you think WA got it right then perhaps you might also think AU should have closed our international borders many many weeks earlier.
Mistakes were made but as always AU just fuddled through it as we do on most things (gas ?!!?), just hoping lessons are noted!
nice to see some measured posts on here. I'm not asking for people to be sent to the wall. just as Guy -noted lessons learnt and mistakes acknowledged and yes apologies should be made.
The State's policies quickly became a us vs them political gamesmanship. No science. No consistency. Pretty alarming to watch. WA rode that wave to the very end with modelling of locking down so late in the game showing the harm of a mass quick covid infection rate being more detrimental then a slow burn.
GuySmiley wrote:If you think WA got it right then perhaps you might also think AU should have closed our international borders many many weeks earlier.
Our borders were closed within a day or two each way of many developed countries and much earlier than many countries if it happened again it would be the same, once one or two countries make the move it creates a domino effect.
Obviously with the beauty of hindsight the whole world would have closed borders much sooner, but let's remember the WHO was giving the world very mixed messages even a few weeks before borders started closing
"WHO Chief Urges Countries Not to Close Borders to Foreigners From China"
https://www.voanews.com/a/science-health_coronavirus-outbreak_who-chief-...
For perspective this article is from early Feb, and in response to USA putting a travel ban on passengers from China in late Jan, which of course at the time was seen by many as racist cause Trump did it.
Agree with Bonza, hindsight a copout.
Why cant an unvaxed individual still not enter a hospital or retirement village, if for nothing other than punishment for not being jabbed?
Its completely been exposed as useless against transmission so why the continued segregation?
old-dog wrote:He sure waffles on a lot without actually saying much. I remember even before the vaccines were rolled out they said that even people who had mild symptoms showed signs that they had had a heart attack when they had a scan. The long-term effects of covid are still unknown so how can he say non covid related deaths when most people have now had it and some could be like ticking time bombs. Anti vaxxers always find a way to blame everything on the jab to reinforce their "own truth."
Fair points old dog and yeah he does waffle. I guess the point hes trying to make is regardless of cause, why isnt this bigger news in the MSM?? Surely a higher deathrate, and still climbing is news worthy especially after the covid death stats have been shoved down our throats the last two years.
Also be cautious labelling everyone anti vax. Im not anti vax, anti science or anti medicine. Definitely anti large corrupt corporations rushing an untrialled drug upon the world's population in the name of profit.
Is the WHO another “ solid democratic institution “ ?
Haha … ‘solid democratic institutions’ ;)
The problem lies also in our blind allegiance to the US and UK. Their policy making decisions and doctrine was and is never questioned nor challenged at all by Australian ‘authorities’ - their ‘experts’ were and are our ‘experts’…
- Regardless of fact or fiction ;)
The greatest casualty or cost of this thing is honesty. I’m with Stu in that we should be asking more questions - the finger pointing adds to the circus…
Imagine if politicians, medical industry professionals and law makers could be held accountable for being dishonest. Really ;)
Immunity from liability is possibly the greatest question mark from the pandemic - not because it existed - but because it was the catalyst for the success of the experiment.
;)
It would be really nice to know what was in the “ secret “ contracts between Pfizer and the Australian government.
Given the severity of the event and the amount of public money given to Pfizer et al plus the already rock bottom trust in big pharma prior to covid - it’d also would have been nice that the 2 parties agreed on 100 % transparency on data as well as restricted patents. All this was known and discussed prior to the vaccination development yet the governments did nothing to mitigate conflict of interest as well as the perception of conflict of interest. That’s not hindsight thinking. That’s just shitty dumb management. Some see it as corrupt. Can you blame them?
Exactly @bonza.
Nailed it.
Almost two-thirds of Australians — including children — have had COVID-19, blood study suggests
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-03/two-thirds-australians-covid-19-i...
Supafreak wrote:Almost two-thirds of Australians — including children — have had COVID-19, blood study suggests
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-03/two-thirds-australians-covid-19-i...
Really amazing the unvaccinated are not all dead.
More amazing they are still flogging this horse (on yet another forum).....
campbell wrote:More amazing they are still flogging this horse (on yet another forum).....
Yeah, let’s just forgot about it. No harm done hey Campbell?
Go say that to every single person and family member injured by the shit vaccine they forced people to take.
Women that menstrual cycles have still not returned to normal after 12 months. Who cares right….. it didn’t happen to your wife so let’s move on.
You didn’t have a small business that will never recover. A business that you have poured your heart into.
All while some people got very rich, who cares…..
The political lies…… who cares. They always lie
The doctors, nurses, firefighters, ambos that got stood down without pay. Who cares……. They had a choice
yawn
Well that was interesting udo , I watched the whole thing and didn’t yawn once.
campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:More amazing they are still flogging this horse (on yet another forum).....
Yeah, let’s just forgot about it. No harm done hey Campbell?
Go say that to every single person and family member injured by the shit vaccine they forced people to take.
Women that menstrual cycles have still not returned to normal after 12 months. Who cares right….. it didn’t happen to your wife so let’s move on.
You didn’t have a small business that will never recover. A business that you have poured your heart into.
All while some people got very rich, who cares…..
The political lies…… who cares. They always lie
The doctors, nurses, firefighters, ambos that got stood down without pay. Who cares……. They had a choice
Well said @burleigh.
I have people close to me severely affected. Its hard to forget when its a lived experience.
burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
We, being the remaining conspiracy bed wetters. 99%+ of the population is getting on with life.
I think everyone acknowledges decisions were made in good faith and with hindsight some decisions were clearly wrong. When another pandemic comes along it does not mean we make decisions based on how covid played out.
Roadkill wrote:I think everyone acknowledges decisions were made in good faith and with hindsight some decisions were clearly wrong. When another pandemic comes along it does not mean we make decisions based on how covid played out.
That’s the problem with faith. It’s why I’m atheist
Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
We, being the remaining conspiracy bed wetters. 99%+ of the population is getting on with life.
Are they really conspiracy theories when they all came true?
burleigh wrote:Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
We, being the remaining conspiracy bed wetters. 99%+ of the population is getting on with life.
Are they really conspiracy theories when they all came true?
The vaccine alters your DNA.
That 000’s of people died from the vaccine.
Covid is just the Flu.
The vaccines don’t work.
The vaccines make you magnetic.
The covid vaccines are causing covid variances.
The vaccines makes you infertile.
Govts put a microchip in the vaccine.
Some vaccines contain aborted human fetal tissue.
Vaccines cause Autism.
I could go on?
Patience of a saint Roadkill
Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
We, being the remaining conspiracy bed wetters. 99%+ of the population is getting on with life.
Are they really conspiracy theories when they all came true?
The vaccine alters your DNA.
That 000’s of people died from the vaccine.
Covid is just the Flu.
The vaccines don’t work.
The vaccines make you magnetic.
The covid vaccines are causing covid variances.
The vaccines makes you infertile.
Govts put a microchip in the vaccine.
Some vaccines contain aborted human fetal tissue.
Vaccines cause Autism.I could go on?
I’ll start with the obvious 1 first.
Let’s us know how your 4 vaccines went roadkill. All your whinging/moaning looking for sympathy is still on the covid forum for everyone to see.
How long were you sick for? 30 days?
Ahh dammit. Covid19 was around in Italy in Sept 2019.
Gonna have to change the story...again. Ooops.
But wait,...if it was around in Sept 2019....doesn't that mean.........
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8529295/
burleigh wrote:Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
We, being the remaining conspiracy bed wetters. 99%+ of the population is getting on with life.
Are they really conspiracy theories when they all came true?
The vaccine alters your DNA.
That 000’s of people died from the vaccine.
Covid is just the Flu.
The vaccines don’t work.
The vaccines make you magnetic.
The covid vaccines are causing covid variances.
The vaccines makes you infertile.
Govts put a microchip in the vaccine.
Some vaccines contain aborted human fetal tissue.
Vaccines cause Autism.I could go on?
I’ll start with the obvious 1 first.
Let’s us know how your 4 vaccines went roadkill. All your whinging/moaning looking for sympathy is still on the covid forum for everyone to see.
How long were you sick for? 30 days?
I know you don't understand or agree, but Roadkill was very lucky he was vaccinated if he still got seriously sick when vaccinated chances are very high unvacinated he could have been in hospital on a respirator or worse.
indo-dreaming wrote:burleigh wrote:Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:Roadkill wrote:burleigh wrote:campbell wrote:yawn
Exactly what I thought. You are the reason we will not move on.
We, being the remaining conspiracy bed wetters. 99%+ of the population is getting on with life.
Are they really conspiracy theories when they all came true?
The vaccine alters your DNA.
That 000’s of people died from the vaccine.
Covid is just the Flu.
The vaccines don’t work.
The vaccines make you magnetic.
The covid vaccines are causing covid variances.
The vaccines makes you infertile.
Govts put a microchip in the vaccine.
Some vaccines contain aborted human fetal tissue.
Vaccines cause Autism.I could go on?
I’ll start with the obvious 1 first.
Let’s us know how your 4 vaccines went roadkill. All your whinging/moaning looking for sympathy is still on the covid forum for everyone to see.
How long were you sick for? 30 days?
I know you don't understand or agree, but Roadkill was very lucky he was vaccinated if he still got seriously sick when vaccinated chances are very high unvacinated he could have been in hospital on a respirator or worse.
And how on earth do you know that Indo?
Let me guess…… faith?
It's medical science, but it's also common sense.
A nice easy read on themes relevant to this thread.
https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/why-do-our-br...
"We are also more susceptible to misinformation that fits into our worldviews or social identities, and we can fall into confirmation bias, which is the tendency to look for and favour information fitting what we already believe."
Just browsing the online shitrag that is News.com today and came across this article on the Queen and how it was portrayed she was using Ivermectin, when according to the article she wasn't. Note the language used..particularly the use of the word 'dangerous'.
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/channel-9-apolo...
Then i looked up an article about Ivermectin pre Covid and found this one...
https://www.isglobal.org/en/healthisglobal/-/custom-blog-portlet/ivermec...
Note the line: "Because of its excellent safety profile and broad spectrum of activity, ivermectin is catalogued by the World Health Organisation as an essential medicine and is regarded by many as a "magic bullet" for global health."
Alot of talk on these forums lately is about trusting the science, listening to the experts, most of which use the big media giants as their platforms to broadcast information. If you choose to question what is pumped out adnauseum to you these days you're labelled a tin foil hatter, a conspiracy theorist and accused of posting misinformation.
I just wonder what other peoples thoughts are on the media narrative as opposed to doing your own research. I once trusted the media alot more, however in this day and age, when we have soooo much information available at the touch of a keypad, some false, some verifiable, it's hard to trust the media when you can easily catch them out in blatant lies, or at the very least, misleading the public as shown above.
Anyway, that's my thoughts. Wondering on others. Just gonna read, not going to chirp in on this one.