The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.
Jesus!!! Optimized can God own your phone too?What about your mortgage repayment or does he just own soil?
Flawed argument pointing to longevity as a reason for retaining the date.
"It's been that day since 1935!"
Yeah, back to the days of Terra Nullius, frontier wars, and the Stolen Generations.
We progress, yeah?
Anyway, if endurance was a virtue then we would retain slavery, feudalism, colonialism, etc etc but we don't because society evolves.
I've no doubt the date will be changed in the future.
Such a good vibe down the beach this morning. Plenty of shade tents and marquees adorned with Oz and Blackfella flags. I don’t particularly feel the need for the flags but they definitely add to the sense of occasion and it just bunts the feeling to a higher level.
Definitely a collective spirit to the day which isn’t always present.
Sun is out , water is warm ( 24 degrees ? ) and the Northerly is tempering an otherwise stinker of a day. We walked down at about 8:30 and still got our little cove basically to ourselves for a good long time whilst the corner of the bay is full of frothing families of all descriptions.
A baby osprey getting taught how to hunt bait fish by its mum in the lee of the break wall then a pod of a dozen dolphins smashed into the bait in waist deep water a few metres offshore from the awestruck families playing in the shallows.
BBQs cranking, kids running mayhem in the sea , sand and saltwater and a few cold bevvies starting to appear in the hands of stoked mums and dads as we made our way back towards home.
Everyone smiling and appreciating their blessings to be an Australian in 2021. Epic time.
...if one takes a long view to optimist's statement, rather than seeing it through a jesus/god lense (as no doubt optimist does... but...)
it is a very similar argument to what aboriginal people and their advocates make...
so therefore, perfectly reasonable
"I've no doubt the date will be changed in the future."
I'm not so sure about that the way things are going...
I'd love to chat with bluediamond... but nah...
Goin' for the heat babe, and a tropical rain
In a place where no man's puttin' on the dog for me
Waitin' on the weekend, set o' brand new tyres
And back in Bow River's just where I want to be
Listen now to the wind babe
Listen now to the rain
Feel that water lickin' at my feet again
I’m hearing you Mossy ! Quick question : You reckon Bow River has jet skis doing bog laps sun up till sun down these days ?
Or is just here ?
Lucky you Blowin... and a quite poetic description.
Sounds like how Australia Day is meant to be.
Sadly here in Melbourne is rainy shitty day (still guzzling the cans tho)
I would argue the vibe changes depending on your location blowin. But stoked you had a good morning. Not really understanding your point there sypkan.
There is nothing perfectly reasonable about the fact that christian missionaries have been responsible for the decimation of indigenous cultures around the world for centuries. So when optimist uses the word god he isn’t referring to the Dreamtime he means his god his one true god, jebus
Hey Blowin, you don't think the same feeling is possible most other sunny days?
Why force one lot of people - already with a long history of being oppressed - to 'get over it' and swing with the happy times on Jan 26th the way everyone else is?
If you can't appreciate their sense of sorrow on this day, even if they've adapted in every other way to modern Australia, I can only chalk it up as a lack of imagination and/or empathy.
How can there be unity when this date has such strikingly different meanings?
@Sypkan, I'll give it a decade and the date will be changed. Before you quote the current polls, go and see the polls from years past and if you have a sharp eye you may notice a trend.
people of - all descriptions - aren't ready for that conversation bluediamond
too much dogma... from all angles...
too many 'triggers'
but I'll go one question... do you really think 50% control going to one small small percentage of the population is 'fair' or reasonable?
I understand the ethical argument... but...
Stu .....I’m not forcing anyone to do anything. I’m appreciating being lucky enough to be Australian on our National day.
In some countries those dolphins would be round up and slaughtered , the beach would be strewn with land mines and those kids would be enslaved instead of happily running around with ice cream melting down their chin.
Happy Australia Day mate . Hope you and your family are healthy , loving , free and safe !
Too early for the big guns ? Not a chance.
No, not forcing anyone, but you're also not considering the other side of the argument - usually necessary to make a balanced decision.
It is entirely possible for us - all of us, blackfellas too - to appreciate how lucky we are on another date, one that isn't divisive and carry cultural baggage.
Expecting others to 'get over it' is no way to foster unity.
"I understand the ethical argument... but..."
But what? no ethics or no argument?
Not sure what you’re talking about ? I haven’t told anyone to “get over it “.
What I have done is officially decided to let others ruin their single day of appreciation for our country with bickering. If you want to change the date then fckn change it . I don’t give a rat’s arse. As long as there’s a day when we can all look at each other and think.....”no one is trying to kill us or enslave us and we are free to enjoy one of the last safe , beautiful and relatively wild counties in the world. Woohoo ! “
Until you crew get your shit together and change the date or whatever you decide I’m going to take this single day out of 365 days per year to rejoice our community and collective good fortune. If someone chooses to purposefully misinterpret this good will as a slight towards others then that’s their problem as I mean no offence to anyone and just deserve to enjoy my day in peace as I allow others to do every day of the year.
Happy Australia Day !
"It is entirely possible for us - all of us, blackfellas too - to appreciate how lucky we are on another date, one that isn't divisive and carry cultural baggage."
Jeez Stu. When ya put it like that, it makes those that want the date to remain seem at best, to lack empathy, and at worst, like complete pieces of shit.
Australia day for years down here was called "Wog day" because the only people that would gather and celebrate were the migrant Greek and Italian families it was just another public holiday to most.When did the over the top patriotnism start to take off.History will be the judge and juror.2001 onwards?When did it turn into Australia's Halloween.Now for the best the date is starting to be scrutinized" What does the date really mean" what does it mean to you?
“Looking behind and living in the past is a recipe for disaster”
“ Over the top patriotism “
WTF are you talking about cobber ? A few flags in the age of consumerism ? Flags which will be put away in a drawer tomorrow if not thrown in the bin .
Tell me Snuffy ....what does it mean to you ? Or more importantly tell me the reasons you’ve got to be grateful to be living in Australia .
I observed 26 January by attending a smoking ceremony at Willum Warrain in Hastings.
“.... .When did the over the top patriotnism start to take off.History will be the judge and juror.2001 onwards?When did it turn into Australia's Halloween ...”.
Look back no further than the mid ‘90’s. Australia Day along with Anzac Day (both in rapid decline at the time) became important symbols in the cultural wars when you or your opinions or events or even school curriculums (ffs) were either Australian or unAustralian. All cynically used for electoral advantage. Yes, history should treat that era in politics poorly.
Hey Sypkan. Yeah fair enough. The 50% was purely hypothetical and to be honest its not my place to guess what is suitable for aboriginal Australians. Having said that there is no argument a crime was committed in stealing their land. There have never been consequences. At some point WE have to face the consequences so yes, if it were to be that, I'd be willing to accept that and to sacrifice my way of life in the same way thats been forced upon them. To me that's the morally right thing to do. Cheers for your reply
I don't think polls represent much ...especially over time, especially when they are so fundamentally flawed by design...
I think public sentiment is more important, and while I think public sentiment towards aboriginals is very positive and accomodating, I think public sentiment towards dividing people up, in any manner, and by any classification at all, is more on the nose than ever
""I understand the ethical argument... but..."
But what? no ethics or no argument?"
it's fine to have ideals and ethical arguments, but if you're argument is not realistic in it's demands, or appealing to the majority, you'll get nowhere...
yes, it's aboriginal land...
'...always was, always will be... did not concede... ...blah blah blah..."
I kind of agree with the above, ...but the problem isn't convincing me... it's convincing a vast majority of other people... amongst them, people who have vastly different ideas to me, and people who cannot possibly understand the poorly articulated legal arguments...
poorly articulated legal arguments that are rather idealistic and lofty by nature
so idealistic, they've sold the blackfellas short from my perspective, as the blackfellas forever hold out for a pipedream, a pipedream that just doesn't seem realistic at all in the current context (see above, but wider world geo- politics more importantly)
it's like a lot of things, arguments of certain 'activists' just seem stuck in the 1990's, whilst the world has raced ever faster headstrong into a globalisation tech. driven maelstrom
...which has also just compounded remote and non remote isolated aborignal people's problems even more...
but it's not all dire, there's also a lot of aboriginals who've done very well out of the last 30 years, stan grant says as much, and often advocates more focus on such things, rather than the constant sorrow victim narrative
I broadly agree with your comments about polls and public sentiment sypkan hence the need for constructive political leadership that wants to progress this and many other issues and herein is the problem. Anyone that doesn’t think AD isn’t a cultural war issue for the conservative side of politics is fooling themselves
Beautiful woman made even more attractive by her down to Earth Aussie demeanour . I’d even go as far as to call Margo Robbie the Perfect Woman. Alas....she hailed to note Old Fella as a cock and completely blew it with not understanding Dog’s eye . She almost stumbled at Come a gutser except the producers misspelled it so that doesn’t count .*
* Hey - You look like that and I’ll give you some wriggle room too. Plus she gets bonus points for rightly calling the Sleaford Mods fan a wanker.
Never heard of Dog's Eye Blowin. But jeez she's a stunner.
Polls are important because they give an indication of what the public wants, and in a democracy on issues like this decisions should be made based on favouring the majority.
It would be completely wrong if a PM said I'm changing the date of Australia day even though i know it's not what the majority want, especially a date with so much history and symbolism attached too it.
Ideally with an issue like this it should go to a referendum but doing so on just this one issue would be a complete waste of money especially when so many polls show public opinion is not even close to 50/50, hence a referendum currently pointless.
Anyway the issue wont be put to rest for a long time, only real way to sort it out is a referendum, so realistically it probably wont be asked until we have a referendum on the republic issue again, which could be another 15 years time which will bring us to our 100 year anniversary of Australia day in all states except NSW.
BTW changing Australia day and changing the holiday we celebrate it on, is two very different things, so no not at all comparable to Howard changing the public holiday date, i doubt too many people would have an issue on moving the public holiday back to the Friday or Monday but keeping the 26th as Australia day.
Dog's eye and dead horse, aka pie with sauce. Jeez and you call yourself an aussie Craig (haha). And I will also happily admit to being a MR fan...
Referenda are for changing the constitution. A plebiscite is probably the more appropriate mechanism, if you want to go down that line. Personally I think being open to having the conversation is as important as the decision at this point in time.
Perhaps a period of community consultation, through a Government led body such as the Australia Day council, to determine a range of options and then a public education campaign preceding either a public vote or a government decision.
Crikey fuckin' Moses who woulda thought that one person talking to a stationary camera would require a photographer, a fashion and style director, a hair stylist, a makeup artist and two different producers??
Root me thong and shit the bed.
If your thong looked like Margo I’d be there with bells on. And yeah....I don’t think I’d kick her out if she shit the bed.
Judge me not , I’m only human.
“Half time, change sides”
Haha .....give a hand for Rodney. Let’s give Rodney a hand !
Every thing we take for granted in our society is due to the arrival of Europeans. Surfing would not exist and aborigines would still be living in the Stone Age. So thank your lucky stars for Capt Cook.
Popcorn please !
But enlightening nevertheless D Rex. Please don't ever delete that comment ;-)
Still freakin hot .
Try this for an idea.....that there was and is a living Culture here in Australia , that was not a technologically based culture.
In 60000 years or more social evolution was part of what we now call Australia's Indigenous / First Nation peoples.
200 + years ago a Technological superior race arrived and conquered the First peoples , then raped and pillaged them used them as slave labor and considered them savages , not human, so were treated very badly by the invaders, their world /culture changed forever for the worse...genocide was tried here and there over a couple of hundred years.......and a new nation was born from the colonial practices of the time....finally aboriginals were recognized as human in to 1960's...by the new Australian society/culture and since then its been a big battle to rid the racism that is still present in our Australian Culture , and the lack of equality is still being addressed as is the idea of Australia Day being a celebration of what 's good about Australia....
But for our First Peoples , this is a sad day , because of the lack of understanding of Australia's history towards the First Peoples , and also their 60K history which very few Australians understand and embrace...because it's Australia's history our history.
Imagine being able to talk to other nations about being an Australian , where we have a 60,000 year culture , and that Australians are the oldest living race on Earth , where we have 30K year old Art and a social system to envy!
There seems to be a divide about , who are we....a Cosmopolitan society that embraces all contributing cultures, but the foundation is our 60K culture..and we are evolving still as a Nation , just like when the colonialists arrived or the first wave of Italians/Greeks/ Vietnamese etc...
So I love Invasion Day as the day when we discuss and accept all Australians....whether they be white/black /brown /red/yellow....FFS we are all Humans !!
Heir heir Brutus. Powerful thoughts. Beautiful people and culture. Why not embrace it!!?? Baffles me too mate.
SAD day for Australians
How sad is Australia Day now it use to be aussie flags on poles draped
over balconies park cars along fences in shop windows and flags proudly
waving from cars people playing cricket in the parks so on and so and just
enjoying the Australian way of life.
Now driving down to my local beach I almost saw absolutely nothing to remind
us what day it was it really saddened me to think that once again we get beaten down and overruled by minority groups taken away our own heritage killing off
the Australian characters and larrikins that Australia was once so famous for. It would
appear that Australians are now too scared and made to feel ashamed to celebrate
our national day. Sure there were 1000s of people enjoying the public holiday but
nothing to indicate it was Australia Day.
Australia has lost its identity and its FUCKEN shameful and im damn pissed off.
Minority groups....you mean like, er....Aboriginals??
Yeah, nah Evo.
Was just chatting with a mate in my street, we're both ~50, as kids we hung out with family and friends at the beach or river or local surf club and had a great sense of community on Oz day. The only flags were proper ones at the RSL or surf club.
It's been replaced by bullshit oi oi oi, all of who will throw their plastic made in china flags in the bin tomorrow