Australia - you're standing in it
Fitz, borders and quarantining are Federal govt responsibility 100% enshrined in law. The states have responsibility for health in law. In the past it was the federal govt that ran, staffed, financed quarantine stations in each state. People treated at these quarantine stations were the responsibility of the Federal govt. So what happened this time and why did the states take on what legally are functions of the Feds? Good questions that haven’t been answered or touched by the media. We do know Morrison put home based quarantine to the premiers at the time our ports and airports remained open (Fed’s responsibility) which was rejected. We also know that faced with the health affects of Covid in the community the states agreed to set up hotel quarantine within 36 hrs (what could possibly go wrong?). Finally it needs to be highlighted that Morrison closed our borders a full 10 weeks after the first case of Covid here in AU.... remember him off to the Friday night footy and all the talk about getting the international students in before closing the borders and not upsetting China? It’s been a complete cockup by Morrison
Morrison gave the states a couple of shit sandwiches and said eat one of them. The big one involved the Feds waiving in international flights followed by home quarantine. The little one involved the states desperately setting up hotel quarantine in 24 hours and taking all responsibility for a federal govt responsibility.
Not only that, the Feds completely dropped the ball on the Covid safe app which cost $70 mil and involved nearly 100 staff in Victoria learning how to trace infections using the app. And then of course there's aged care. At the height of the Victorian outbreak, the situation in aged care homes was a fucking national disgrace. Scumo had months to prepare and did fuck all. It was so bad, already stretched Vic medical professionals did over 5000 shifts in aged care homes because of scumo's negligence. And now the fucker is travelling the country doing photo ops with cubbies, on farms, in home quarantine, in high viz. etc. Fucking bloke is more interested in his image than actually doing the basics.
Understood GS. As we know and you have pointed out, the feds are pretty useless at organisation and in turn, with so many people to isolate, have obviously reached out to the states and territories for ideas and help. In turn, no doubt, there are a few that have seen this as an opportunity to capitalize on and treat it as a funding opportunity to their diminishing economy. Think like your builder and subcontractor situation. So Feds provide the cash, states and territories provide the accommodation and associated services.
Prime example is the NT.
The Howard Springs Camp was built for the Inpex project. I believe somewhere in the vicinity of 2500 rooms, huge catering and dining areas that doubled as a cyclone shelter, mini cinema, pool, tennis courts, etc, etc . When the project was completed, Inpex handed the facility over to the NT gov. Now, the NT haven't really known what to do with the place for near 2 years until 2020, when covid hit.
Now the NT gov is making a tidy little profit out of the whole deal.
Agreed Fitz the thing that I’m really annoyed with is not the mistakes made by both the Feds and states but the blame shifting when things went amiss in quarantine ... We deserved better from the Feds when the states were doing all the hard work. I guess it’s what we get from our Prime Marketer
Edit. Howard Springs and Xmas island could have been set up by the Feds as quarantining stations in Feb/March when the seriousness of Covid was apparent but that would have taken a PM prepared to be proactive
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"Edit. Howard Springs and Xmas island could have been set up by the Feds as quarantining stations in Feb/March when the seriousness of Covid was apparent but that would have taken a PM prepared to be proactive"
Would have been a crazy idea to try to use Xmas island, Imagine the logistic issues of getting all these people in and out and the cost blow outs, totally unrealistic, imagine flying to Oz then needing to fly again to Xmas island, who's going to pay for that return flight?
Operation cost would also be much much higher due to everything needing to be flown or shipped in, either costing government more, or everyone in quarantine needing to pay much more.
It holds about 1,100 but that doesn't mean it could hold that many in a proper quarantine type manner,
Howards springs is currently being used by NT arrivals holds more but even combined it's not going to be enough accommodation.
The current hotel quarantine system is fine and has been successful where implemented by competent state governments.
Current system would also have some degree of economical benefits for each state, obviously hotels being used, which also benefits other hotels as less rooms available in each city, employment to local people then all food etc needs to sourced locally.
3500 rooms at Howard Springs, although with Covid measures up to 1000 per fortnight would be utilised. At $2500 per person per fortnight, less some expenses, a nice little earner for the NT Gov.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-16/nt-howard-springs-international-c...
I’m willing to pay $2500 quarantine to re enter Australia.
Hahahaha, Blowin ......... 3, 2, 1 ........ :)
Couple of Tuesday evening yucks .
Also totally serious.
There is rich irony in hotel quarantine arrangements being defended on cost grounds over remote quarantining by someone who stridently defends the indefinite detention of refugees remotely at a huge cost to Australia .... and also ignoring the staggering history making debt incurred by Australia in the (mis)management of the current Covid crisis.
The notion of remote quarantining rightfully run by the Commonwealth ought not be so easily dismissed if we are to properly learn the lessons from Covid. The SARs pandemic of 2003 should have taught us to be prepared, it didn't. So what happens when the next pandemic hits in 5,10,20 years? Do we shut down the economy again and will there we the social licence to do so? Far better to be prepared and that needs a Commonwealth government to step up and act on its constitutional responsibilities, like yesterday.
Australian coal blocked indefinitely by Beijing:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/australian-coal-blocked-indefinitel...
But IO price is giving them a headache:
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/china-s-leverage-over-austr...
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/ferrous/iron-ore-futures-and-opt...
specs of futures and futures options on cme
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/ferrous/iron-ore-62pct-fe-cfr-ch...
link to pricing of each month's contract, click on the chart icons to see the big recent spike in Dec/Jan contracts. ouch!
"China’s steel industry peak body, China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), appears to be suggesting that Rio and BHP have in some way manipulated the price through what they are calling "possible violations of laws and regulations" and are calling for Chinese regulations to crack down on suppliers."
Can anyone see the iron-y?
haha, Zen strikes again
"There is rich irony in hotel quarantine arrangements being defended on cost grounds over remote quarantining by someone who stridently defends the indefinite detention of refugees remotely at a huge cost to Australia .... and also ignoring the staggering history making debt incurred by Australia in the (mis)management of the current Covid crisis."
Not going to bother with the first part of the comment as your have shown time and time again that you have very little understanding of the issue.
But the last bit...mismanagement...ha ha ha
Let's be real Guy, Labor would have spent just as much if not more, and we both know it's money that needed to be spent, the whole world is in a once in 100 year event.
Early days but signs already good "Australia 'emerges from recession' after GDP figures show economy growing for the first time this year"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-02/australia-september-quarter-econo...
And as we know if there was ever a time to borrow money, it's now, have interest rates ever been lower?
Has this ever happened?
"The federal government has just been paid to borrow money as the interest rate on Treasury notes turns negative for the first time as investors seek to park cash."
https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/government-being-paid-to-borrow-as-ra...
Compared to most developed countries our government debt levels are also very low
(Australia's debt as a proportion of annual economic output)
"France (116 per cent), the UK (96 per cent), the US (132 per cent) and Canada (109 per cent) all exceed Australia's (36.1 per cent this financial year, according to the Treasury, and 43.8 per cent in 2023-24)."
If you live in a regional area and you’ve got a sneaking suspicion that it feels more crowded of late ....
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/covid-19-city-exodus-puts-strain-on-...
give me patience sweet mother of baby jebus ... info my point was about remote quarantining run by the commonwealth. yes it is probable labor would have spent as much as the LNP given all the commercial and social imperatives and they would have been equally open to the sort of criticism I'm labelling Morrison with.
to restate the point, it is the commonwealth that is responsible for borders and quarantine. we needed a national pandemic plan and especially so after SARs in 2003 and that plan needed to included remote commonwealth quarantine facilities. we needed them at the start of the year and we still need them.
in a severe crisis ambiguity of responsibilities and decision making can only lead to failure and that is what has happened here, the states and Feds are still arguing with each other.
"If you live in a regional area and you’ve got a sneaking suspicion that it feels more crowded of late ...."
It's gone from 2 cars deep to 4 cars deep at the traffiic lights here which is testing our patience :)
Interesting article in The Australian regarding the current China/Australia dispute with an opinion on who actually holds the balance of power. Unfortunately it's subscription paywalled unless someone know how to get around it.
Ultimate power in trade dispute isn’t with Xi
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/xi-jinping-knows-who-has-the...
similar stuff, successive saeclum
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/pearl-harbor
edit: a simple verbiage of same situation:
https://what-when-how.com/the-american-economy/japanese-oil-embargo-1940...
good article (looking for an editor - typos!), includes Emperor Hirohito's statement at the time:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/1-reason-imperial-japan-attacked-...
"Finally, after Japanese forces invaded French Indochina (modern Vietnam and Cambodia) in June 1941, President Roosevelt implemented a ban on iron, steel and oil exports to Japan jointly with Australia and the United Kingdom."
The amount of debt and spending would not be such an issue if the huge amounts of revenue lost to tax evasion was reigned in and the government stopped subsidising industries and corporations that clearly have no need for them.
Given that WA is about to receive $250 million and build a hospital from royalties clawed back from BHP ( lost due to "an honest misunderstanding of the rules" ) goes to show how much the public is being shafted by the whole taxation and royalty system
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/the-usual-suspects-oil-and-gas-majors-sta...
Further to the above:
https://theconversation.com/in-the-midst-of-an-lng-export-boom-why-are-w...
"The government’s December budget update predicts petroleum resource rent tax revenue of just $1.15 billion this financial year, revised down from the $1.4 billion expected in the May budget.
It has pencilled in only $1.15 billion for each of the next three years.
Qatar, which exports the about the same amount of gas as Australia, is said to have got more than A$20 billion in 2018."
Imagine what could be done with ~$19bn extra revenue per year. Could improve the quality of life for so many Australians, or pay down a bunch of debt, or invest in Universities for Australias and Australians future.
Saw this the other day, i was kind of surprised i guess I've read so many links here to tax dodgers that i didn't expect these two to be the two biggest corporate tax payers.
Biggest corporate tax payers this year.
1. Rio tinto
2. BHP
Was also surprised we got anything out of Facebook, Google, Apple about 200 million combined.
https://www.afr.com/wealth/tax/revealed-australia-s-top-10-biggest-corpo...
Not saying they don't dodge tax or shouldn't pay more, just found it interesting and kind of good news.
China questions blocking of sales:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/china-accuses-australia-of-breachin...
(any of you been successful buying a factory in China?)
Australia files a WTO case for barley:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/farmers-back-australia-taking-china...
Indo, you ever been up the NW and seen the scale of what BHP/Rio/Woodside/FMG are doing? It's massive! Gotta be some tax earned off it?
Agree about it being a surprise that the social media outfits paid tax.
With the PRRT on gas, a couple of months ago Keith Pitt (the relevant minister) was asked about the gas companies not paying any tax. He reckons it is all legit and has no plans to make any changes. Gave the usual excuses about high start up costs etc.
This breaks my heart . Imagine if all these workers lost their visas and Australians had to be employed in Australia instead ?
Perish the thought !
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-17/chinese-abbattoir-workers-strike-...
Deport these people now ! If a foreign worker has been here on a 457 visa for 5 years the company involved should face massive fines for not training a suitable Australian candidate during that term.
Breaking news:
Trade tensions between Australia and China have got to the point where China is threatening to stop buying Australian politicians
But they’re so cheap to purchase !
Why on earth does an abattoir require workers on 457 visas?
Because they pay under award?
Well, well, well.....
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/the-premiers-millionaire-mat...
Cue teary claims that the foreign workers are victims.
I bet he got a sweet ROI on that one..
"Why on earth does an abattoir require workers on 457 visas?"
Quite simply it's work no-one really wants to do.
Repetitive, often labor intensive, then the smell and visuals, they say its hard to wash the smell off you too.
Not to mention jobs like meat packer is pretty crap money.
I guess they could raise the pay rates in these areas to encourage more people to these jobs but obviously there is a flow on effect.
Nah Indo there shouldn't be any flow on effect. That rich prick would just be a bit less richer if he wasn't a prick. He'd still be rich but!! But - that's how the universe of rich pricks works.
Here's that Sharknado Blowin ordered a little while back:
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/clearly-sharknado-bull-shark...
Agriculture relies heavily on 457 visas also. Working in vineyards might sound nice and all but most Australian workers who come and join a pruning team, in winter outside in the rain, on a piece rate where you have to be productive to make money, typically don’t last more than a few days. It can be blood, sweat and tears kinda work, but if you are good you can make reasonable money.
A lot of people bitch about Aussie people, particularly younger crew, not doing these fruit picking style jobs but they are seasonal and not something that can pay a mortgage or even be relied upon to still be there in a months time. It’s not a very attractive option for some good reasons. Not making excuses for bludgers but for a person who wants a reliable job lots of these seasonal tasks are not going to give them what a job in Maccas will give them. It is a hard problem to solve.
In the SW a few viticulture labour hire companies bring over dozens of workers from the pacific islands, there is also a large crew of Afghan workers who live here permanently. These guys are awesome workers, the islanders come here for a few months to make as much money as they can, which from an employers perspective is a great quality in this kind of worker, they attack the work, quickly get good at it and come out winning making reasonable money by Aussie standards which for them is like striking gold. They seem to really love coming here and behave like model citizens. They take a lot of their money back home where opportunities are thin so it can be a real win win for Australia and our smaller neighbours
China’s Foreign Minister at a speech yesterday :
"This grave, difficult situation in China-US relations is not something we want to see," he said. "We need to replace sanctions with dialogue and consultation."
"We need to replace sanctions with dialogue and consultation."
"We need to replace sanctions with dialogue and consultation."
"We need to replace sanctions with dialogue and consultation."
He said whilst China illegally imposed mass sanctions on Australian exports and refused to engage Australia in any diplomatic efforts at all beyond juvenile abuse and insult . They literally don’t even answer phone calls from Australia’s official diplomats.
Nice
Western culture is so decadent and pathetic. The Chinese are going to eat us alive.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/dec/18/ryan-kaji-9-earns-30m...
Lol
It tends to be decadent and pathetic (with an undercurrent of voices identifying a threat) and then it realises the threat and then it grits its teeth, gets down to business and prevails; setting up a period of peace and free expression where its citizens become increasingly decadent and pathetic. 80 year cycles...
Agree.
Look at the state of the world pre WW2. The US was in a shit storm . Coming out of depression , fractured and divided society.The Japanese navy was larger and more modern when they hobbled the US at Pearl Harbour .
A few years later and that expansionist Asian empire was put back in its box whilst the West went from strength to strength. There’s a reason China suffered its humiliation last time at the hands of the West.
I think you’re also forgetting that a single soldier from the West is able to easily defeat hundreds of enemies as evidenced by multiple Rambo sequels .
Hi Craig, Ben and Stu.
Is blowin's deeply racist meme above something you enjoy hosting on your forums?
And do you blokes have a line on what is unacceptable?
Yeah indo dreaming , I was on a flight from Bali to port hedland years ago and this Aussie guy had 25 Indonesians from Lombok with him , I was curious and asked what he was doing ? He had a pearl farm in Broome and was taking them there as they were pearl technicians and didn’t need training , he was paying them $200 a day plus accommodation which were only basic shacks. They were on 2 year contracts and very excited for the opportunity as back home they got $5 a day . I asked him why wasn’t he employing aussies and he replied they won’t stay more than a few weeks and it’s hard training them which he didn’t have to do with the Indonesians.
And he was talking shit so he could import his cheap indentured labour.
Hard training Aussies to be pearl technicians....lol. Wont stay more than a few weeks .....double lol.
Same old lies repeated over and over.
thought for the day
“The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays is coming to its close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences.”
And here's a tale of the last time of consequences, the bloke warning about it, how he saw it when Prime Ministers could not; courtesy of an offshoot of France 24:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/05/blood-toil-tears-and-sweat-winston-chur...
quick question for blowin the racist dog.
Did you pull that racist meme down yourself or did one of the boys from Swellnet tell you to get that shit off their forum?
The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.