Australia - you're standing in it

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Sheepdog started the topic in Friday, 18 Sep 2020 at 11:51am

The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.

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etarip Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 5:52pm

Chill evo.

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 5:59pm

... any talk about referendums, plebiscites and the like is just a delaying tactic like how the conservative side of politics used in the SSM debate. Yeah I know I'm a little old fashioned but I expect our political leaders to lead, to attempt to progress society and to do everything in their power to unite society and not divide ... herein is the problem.

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:01pm

@bluediamond

No reason why people cant.

The official Australia day website does as has their media campaign https://www.australiaday.org.au/

Pretty much all the official celebrations also have an indigenous aspect of reflection and respect.

That aspect is bigger than ever.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-26/australia-day-ceremonies-sydney-c...

I do agree with you Evosurfer, westerners are a weird bunch its almost as if we hate ourselves and want to destroy any aspect of cultural identity we have, i too find it really sad, i think you can have things like multiculturalism or respect for indigenous people/culture but also embrace our own unique Aussie aspects.

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Westofthelake Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:06pm

“Australia Day is a day to unify everyone, so it must remain on the divisive date” says PM

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has today spoken up about his thoughts surrounding the ‘importance of Australia day’ and why he believes it must remain on January 26th. Mr Morrison explained he that he believes ‘Australia Day is a day to unify the nation’ which means logically it must ‘remain on the divisive date’.

“Australia Day is about the nation coming together and listening to each other, not people getting angry and offended over things like a date.” said the PM after yelling at his phone for displaying the date as January 26th, “All this discussion about how the date is apparently divisive to some due to the whole attempted genocide thing, really divides the nation on this day that is meant to be unifying and I am sick of it.”

“I mean whatever happened to compromise? Compromise is an important step to unifying people. I propose we keep having it on the date chosen to wipe out a national day of mourning, and you lot just stop bringing it up? I mean, why can’t we just have a compromise on this one thing? Come on this is a historic day, so can’t we just ignore the history of it? You are all just dividing us on this unifying day by asking for the date to change, and it’s not like changing the date would fix that.”

“Also, what about all the people who receive their citizenships on Australia Day? If we change the date of Australia day, what date would be have that ceremony? Also all the awards that are given out, and the fire works? What about all the Australian flag merch made from the worst materials known to man, when would they be sold? If we change what date Australia day happens, we would no longer have a date for all the Australia day traditions!”

“Look, if there is a better day to unify the nation than on a date chosen to be divisive, then I am all ears. Unless you are Aboriginal or someone who listens to Aboriginal people obviously. Australia day is a reflection of the good and the bad which is something we all do respectfully throughout that nation. Although that minute of silence suggestion is still ludacris. Come on one whole minute out of 24 hours, that’s a bit much don’t you think?”

When polled about how those who do celebrate Australia Day traditionally do so in the appropriately respectful manner, many Aussies responded with the following.

“Oh yeah, I go to my mates place to get on the piss, sing Aussie songs, maybe hit up the pub and wear some Aussie flags on our clothes. If it were to be moved to a different day, I instead would be going to my mates place to get on the piss, sing Aussie songs, maybe hit up the pub and wear some Aussie flags on our clothes. Yeah I guess the only difference would be that more of my mates would be around because they wouldn’t feel uncomfortable about the date.”

https://chaser.com.au/national/australia-day-is-a-day-to-unify-everyone-...

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bluediamond Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:12pm

Watched 'The Final Quarter' today.
Adam Goodes doco.
Pretty powerful. There will be some that would watch this and focus on Adam and his percieved flaws...and there will be those that would watch it and observe the behaviours of white australians when they are in mob mentality.
It's pretty devastating to watch, at least from my perspective. I loved Goodsy as a footy player but more importantly, I rate Goodsy as one of the true pioneering warriors for indigenous Australia.

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Snuffy Smith Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:27pm

Haha Evo sounds like it's gone back to what it was like here pre mid 90's.Heard an old biddie on the radio just before talking how countless people who have voluntarily given their time for what ever cause they have been involved in for years without any acknowledgement and never asking for any.These are the ones that should be celebrated not a day set aside for jingolistic B.S. and to answer your question Blow in am I able to be grateful to live in a country that for one could pardon Pell for starters?Invade other countries on the premise of what?Leave one of it's country men to rot in a British prison for letting the real truths be accessible to us.This is all quite current affairs let alone the horrors from distant past yep plenty to be grateful for.Keep posting your jingos quite fitting really.

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brutus Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:36pm

yeah Evo , but that was white Australia and now Australia is evolving , sure we lose some of those habits of yesteryear , but the World is changing and if you went to the footy 25 years ago , mostly white fellas now its everybody...how goods Australia now, knowing that we are headed for a full multicultural Nation!

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sypkan Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:57pm

as I was saying, realistic demands, or...

https://www.news.com.au/national/australia-day-police-vow-crackdown-on-i...

it seems the mob are just getting angier, more demanding, and more feral in the current political climate (not neccesarily aboriginal mob...)

"In Sydney, one speaker at an Invasion Day had a demand that stopped people in their tracks – $1 million for each and every Indigenous Australian. Others said changing the date of Australia Day was not enough and the whole celebration should be axed."

I'd actually be cool with this, in one form or another, better than just throwing more bad money after good...

but we can't even agree on how to determine an aboriginal person. ...so what a shitstorm that would create.... plus, this is still just the beginning for some...

"“Don’t be fooled by the Uluru statement from the arse. Let’s do reparations before treaty. A million dollars for each black person and than we can talk treaty.”"

"...In Sydney, organiser Ian Brown said the Uluru Statement from the Heart which proposed a voice to parliament, was not the answer.

“The statement doesn’t do enough. They have this idea the statement is a grassroots movement. There was no consultation done on my homelands.”

interesting stuff, considering some of the advocacy we see on here...

totally agree changing the date is kind of dumb, all contentious symbolism, that'll do fuck all, but I'm ok with it, the date has no meaning for me

seems like everything nowadays, we argue vehemently about window dressing, and fuck all significant changes for the better. I'd say what I think the root of all that is... but some just don't wanna hear all that again...

personally I find it kinda sad and disheartening that advocates and activists in oz just seem to follow the US model... blm to a tee, we saw it with george floyd / dungey, and we now see it with calls for repatriations etc.

oz has it's own unique problems, we don't need to follow the US shitshow, I find it kinda pathetic that the oz activists don't seem to have a single creative thought amongst them

but carry on...

winning!

fwiw, I think some form of aboriginal council to influence policy is the best reasonable middle road forward, but it seems for many nutters cruising these parks, that would be nowhere near enough

and nothing even remotely realistic or reasonable ever would be I imagine...

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bluediamond Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:46pm

Signing out of this convo, but wanted to share this vid of a fella that taught me how to play the didge. He's now passed on to the dreamtime, and i hope it's not offensive to his family and friends to share this vid, but he's such a shining light, and so full of wisdom, i thought it would be a nice message to share, especially at this time. The last part of the vid is the best. Cheers to all and thanks to all for contributing to the convo. That's what it's all about. Yew!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeVBt536w_U

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brutus Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:47pm

Blue Diamond , ever since I witnessed first hand the treatment that was dished out to Goodsey , never been able to follow AFL the same......as you said some people would show empathy watching it , then there are those who would watch it find him a whinger ......Indo watched and didn't get it...................have you read the ABC Doco on Robbie Muir.....heart breaking......but we are all srill being educated/reviewing history/discovering more truths.....which one day will add up to...I am Australian and know what it means to embrace my 60000 year old heritage!

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bluediamond Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 6:59pm

Brutus. Yep, read the Robbie Muir story. It definitely knocked me. And agreed, specifically regarding certain media/player identities around the Goodsy saga. Far out, Goodsy has shown the tremendous strength of a warrior....and Australia missed it!
Aloha to ya mate. Respect your thoughts alot.

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tubeshooter Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 7:11pm

Couldn't help myself with this one given the tone of the thread. Cheers ,,

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loungelizard Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 7:20pm

the muir story affected me the most too. I was one of many that kicked in to his gofundme looking for 10k for a shoulder operation. they closed it about 36 hours in with around 120k

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 7:36pm

@sypkan

Just saw all that on TV 99% young white woke folk.

I think we are going to see much more of this type of stuff and will see groups get more extreme and more violent and things will get burnt down, you watch next few years there will be fire. (not this issue but another)

Lot of young people out there with no purpose seeking purpose clinging onto any issue wanting to feel as though they are part of something , part of anything.

I never understood when i was young and woke why my grandma and father said a war would do me good blah blah blah...now i totally understand what they meant.

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Hiccups Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:13pm

"Lot of young people out there with no purpose seeking purpose clinging onto any issue wanting to feel as though they are part of something , part of anything."

Just cos you're in your 40's yet sound like a decrepit old boomer, doesn't mean there aren't people of all ages invested in this issue. Besides that, what sort of person hates on young people for wanting a better world?

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etarip Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:29pm

I’m don’t think I’m particularly woke, but I can understand the argument for changing the date and I support that movement.

Although I gotta say, I’m not such a big fan of large fan of mass gatherings at the moment. That includes protest.

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etarip Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:31pm

On another note: fkn hot as today!, heeeeps of people in the water in some pretty shitty surf early this morning.
Then lunch at the Huskisson pub. How flash is that place these days?!?

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indo-dreaming Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:33pm

Better world ....bah...it doesn't matter what the issue is they are out there on the streets.

Half the time they have zero knowledge of the topic they are protesting about.

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freeride76 Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:36pm

change the date.

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etarip Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:42pm

Ah, I dunno about clueless millennials indo. I know heaps of crew, of all ages, who are supportive of, or open to, changing the date.

I reckon there’s a sense of the impropriety (and/or general cuntery) about sticking to the date. It’s symbolic for the wrong reasons to a whole bunch of people. The whole First Fleet date Is understandably problematic for first Australians and is largely irrelevant to the later generations of immigrants.

It doesn’t really reflect any kind of ‘union’ or ‘Australian’ identity the same way Waitangi does, or US Independence Day does.

What is it about 26 January that makes it special to you?

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zenagain Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:43pm

Hey BD, cheers for that vid above. I could listen to that bloke all day.

He reminds me of a lovely fella I used to work with up in FNQ. We used to chat for hours about nothing in particular. It was time well spent.

Happy Oz day to all, hope you had a good one.

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zenagain Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 8:44pm

May 8th. Mate day (May8).

Too cold for a barbie?

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Hiccups Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 10:01pm

I don't know how many millenialls you talk to indo, but most of the ones I do, including those I don't know well have a pretty good grasp on world events and what's right and wrong. The ones who are REALLY into activism and the like are extremely switched on. You're old and out of touch before your time mate.

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soggydog Tuesday, 26 Jan 2021 at 9:50pm

What Hiccups said.
Change the day.
Although I’m glad it was today because the waves where cracking and besides some of the stupid shit I read on here it was a great day.
Optimist, God......sooo much stupid.
Brutus, happy Australia Day. I love your summation. 60000 years of culture, and if we get over ourselves we can be a part of the ongoing story. That is fucking gold!

Edit: it is your democratic right to protest.

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zenagain Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 12:46am

This dropped into my feed and a few months ago I got kinda berated for mentioning an Aussie cattle station reverting back into Australian hands from their Chinese overlords. Maybe you've seen this but I love Landline and this story made me angry but more than that, incredibly stoked. Can't repeat verbatim but basically said the young fellas put in a hard and unforgiving day. But that's the point, something to do, something worthwhile, something with a purpose.

Also on a deeper level, It's a travesty that William Shadforth is in the vast vast minority of what should have been a no brainer. Instead the 'city folk' sold their land out from under their feet.

And as a nice little bookend to my rant, my wife walked into the living room while the segment was interviewing Frank Shadforth and she asked- "is he Aussie?" and for once in my life I had the perfect answer.

"and some."

https://youtu.be/3EzBxkvxD74

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Optimist Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 7:05am

I ran a number of scenarios through different world population calculators and the results were pretty much the same...This one shows my input data assuming only 6 people came to Australia 60K years ago and the results ...I thought it interesting anyway......The modelling virtually said this to me...your input data is ridiculous.
It said...
If, as you have suggested, human beings have been on earth for 60000 years and produced another generation each 30 years, that would mean that 2000 generations have passed since humans first "arrived" on earth. If we started with 6 people, and each couple in each generation had produced 3 children, with 70 percent of those living long enough to in turn reproduce, the population of the earth for the current generation would be 1.4 x 10 to the 43rd power people. (For those not used to scientific notation, that is the number 14 followed by 42 zeroes.)
If each of us weighed 150 pounds, this amount of people would weigh 1.6 x 10 20 th power times as much as the earth itself.

Would you like to try again....?

My reply was no that seems like a lot of folks and that's just in Australia.

Footnote...When the first fleet arrived there were 780 million people in the world. In 220 years there are now 7.8 Billion.

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stan1972 Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 7:49am

So no-one has died in 60,000 years?

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brutus Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 8:03am

Just saw all that on TV 99% young white woke folk.

I think we are going to see much more of this type of stuff and will see groups get more extreme and more violent and things will get burnt down, you watch next few years there will be fire. (not this issue but another)

Lot of young people out there with no purpose seeking purpose clinging onto any issue wanting to feel as though they are part of something , part of anything.

I never understood when i was young and woke why my grandma and father said a war would do me good blah blah blah...now i totally understand what they meant.Indo..."

Indo how do you know what 99% of the protesters think or don't?

You say "they want to belong to something.".....maybe they want to see an evolving Australian culture that incorporates Indigenous culture, so they belong to something with a deeper meaning , as at the moment they feel left out of being Australian .....identity crisis , or just trying to set history straight , or want to be an Australian that incorporates and respects all cultures , but especially having a 60K year living culture we all should be proud of?

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freeride76 Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 8:05am

yeah, wars are awesome for young people Indo.

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brutus Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 8:11am

Indo instead of finding right wing versions of Australia day that attack millenials...

I hope you can read about the first massacre in Victoria , and there has been an evolution by all peoples in accepting the massacre as a sad day for all Australians...
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/a-lesson-in-the-history-of-i...

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 8:45am

"You say "they want to belong to something.".....maybe they want to see an evolving Australian culture that incorporates Indigenous culture, so they belong to something with a deeper meaning , as at the moment they feel left out of being Australian .....identity crisis , or just trying to set history straight , or want to be an Australian that incorporates and respects all cultures , but especially having a 60K year living culture we all should be proud of?"

It's already happening, everywhere indigenous culture is such a big focus now in schooling (i know from my kids) and at all kinds of events almost always open up with acknowledgement to first nation people, we even have a whole week dedicated to Indigenous culture, although im sure nobody would be against more of a focus on one day like a first nations day and a public holiday for it too.

(See my post at the top of this page with links) a big focus of the Aussie day campaign is around indigenous people and also multiculturalism, the same stories etc have been floating around promoted on social media.

Pretty much all the official celebrations also have an indigenous aspect of reflection and respect, almost always the first thing they do.

I don't think anyone would be against this aspect, it should be a day for everyone and it can be but a minority(that is mostly white) want to cause division and tell us some BS that the day is divisive when they are the divisive ones.

Offcourse people will say, it can be if we change the date, that is complete BS, if it ever happens we will see, anyone that thinks a whinging minority of woke white folk will ever be happy is nuts.

If it was that simple why not just swap the public holiday back to the Friday a floating date? (celebrate on that date, and lave the official date on the 26th)

Like Evosurfer touched on the real problem is us non indigenous people have very little Australia culture/history and the little we do have people seem to want to destroy?

We basically have Anzac day and Australia day, then in Melb we have Melb cup and AFL grandfnal day (but the last two are more Victorian days and not public holidays elsewhere)

People try to downplay the significance of Australia day always pointing to 94 when the public holiday was changed, which is kind of a joke.

As I've pointed out, the history of the day is so much deeper.

Australia day has been on the 26th Jan in all states and territories except NSW since 1935 (getting close to 100 years of history)

And only reason it wasn't called Australia day in NSW until 1946 is because it was known there as anniversary day before that first landing day or foundation day, which dates back to 1838

The date also has significance in that in 1838 it also became Australias first public holiday (NSW only)

https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/australia/australia-day

An another important aspect very rarely given any media attention is:

On the 26th of January 1949, the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 was enacted.

This was the date where we truly became Australians in our own right

Before 1949, any non indigenous person born or naturalised (made a citizen) in Australia was a British subject.
Before 1949 people travelling overseas were issued with British passports.

However from that date onwards anyone already here or born here was automatically an Australian citizen and given an Australian passport if they wished to travel.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 8:55am

"yeah, wars are awesome for young people Indo."

Thats what i always use to say back to them, not understanding their point.

The point was they had lived through wars dad Vietnam grandma world war 2 and was in the WAAFs

They knew what hard times were and appreciated the good times more and the freedoms that we have, the freedoms that they helped bring for others.

While most of us dont we are stuck worrying about trivial first world issues perhaps naturally feeling a need to fight for something no matter how insignificant. (me shit online that is just as sad as the social justice warriors on the streets)

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stunet Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:01am

"...feeling a need to fight for something no matter how insignificant..."

Insignificant like civil rights?

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freeride76 Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:09am

"While most of us dont we are stuck worrying about trivial first world issues perhaps naturally feeling a need to fight for something no matter how insignificant. (me shit online that is just as sad as the social justice warriors on the streets)"

Agreed. Why don't you drop the right wing culture war talking points for a bit and enjoy life?

Accept that for indigenous people Aus Day is more of a kick in the teeth than a reminder of what an awesome country Aus is?

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Robwilliams Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:10am

They said the world would stop with gay marriage, it didn't. A move to a more inclusive Australia wouldn't either. Why hinder positive change, There's a healing awaiting. The people are asking for reconsideration of a date that only feels right for half the party. Respectful reconciliation must be a path of action not just grand standing each year. To embrace a better Australia we have to have inclusion of all within. The world won't end, just be a little happier

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D-Rex Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:40am

fr 'for indigenous people Aus Day is more of a kick in the teeth...' assumes all aboriginals feel that way. I would expect many thousands of indigenous people would be grateful for what they now have as a result of European arrival - the massive improvement in living standards for aboriginals is undeniable - but their opinions are lost amongst the noisy 'outrage' spewed by the (mostly minimally indigenous) activist minority. PS Why we take any notice of professional indigenous sportspeople earning $m's, driving Ferraris and living in mansions complaining about their 'loss' has got me beat.

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frog Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:44am

The date will always be a somewhat unnecessary point of friction. It is just a date in a year. The symbolism of its importance has been manufactured. It could be just as easily be built up around a different date pretty quickly. Thinking long term, I don't see the issue fading away which means annual controversy for a far as I can see. No good comes of that.

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evosurfer Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:45am

So after reading all this I gather white people are all bad and evil and come to the conclusion that we should give away our homes and possessions that we worked so hard for, the government should give away all our roads,hospitals,cash reserves infrastructure etc,etc to the indigenous original land owners to live in and let them rule and run this country to make amends for white people invasion over 200 years ago and white people should feel ashamed and guilty for the invasion. How ridiculous would that be.
Australia isnt the only land that has been invaded concurred and settled and to
what ive read and observed white people in Australia try very hard to give
support and assistance to indigenous people.
Like the over hyped blown out of proportion BLM protests there is much more life and
world threatening matters to attend too. China has declared war on the world with
their virus attack on every nation on this planet . Make no mistake Chinese arent stupid they dont want to control and dominate a destroyed and unprosperous planet. Thats what we should unit and be protesting against and we are number one on their hit list. See how we all go with China the ruler here?

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soggydog Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 9:59am

Indo, D-Rex and evo. Maintain the bigotry equivocation and stupidity boys. Cling to it tenaciously.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:02am

Great argument soggydog typical of all your post zero substance.

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san Guine Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:08am

Help, I can't move for all the indigenous sportspeople driving around in Ferraris complaining...

Your confected indignation beggars belief, but carry on

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soggydog Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:29am

Like your war comment had so much substance and intelligence to it Indo?

The conversation is about reconciliation and civil rights, but you think young people could use a good war to sort the snowflakes out eh’. Well off you fuck to the front line then. Lead from the front.

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brutus Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:35am

Indo...great history lesson , back to the end of the 40's...but really not relevant in discussing the culture of 60K years....if you chose to investigate more about indigenous culture , could be enlightening?

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brutus Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:48am

D-rex....how many indigenous sports men/women drive around in ferraris?

No, Indigenous people are a lot worse off than they were before Invasion day....you give them trinket toys , like ferraris..... and housing communities/cars etc , but a lot have been disconnected from their land and culture which means many suffer misery from the misunderstanding that (White culture) disconnecting them from their culture is cultural genocide.....
The again D-rex.....how much do you really know about history , or even interested?

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:53am

Read my post again Brutus have nothing against indigenous culture, have nothing against recognising it and even celebrating it.

But its not my culture, as an non indigenous Aussie i have little tradition and culture and the little i do have a minority want to destroy.

Its really sad no over culture in the world other than western culture is so self destructive.

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heals Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 10:56am

Yet it's the most powerful and influential. Do you think those two things may be related?

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Hiccups Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 11:18am

...

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freeride76 Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 11:12am

I don't think Aussie culture is under threat Indo, especially not from indigenous people or changing the date of Aus day.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 11:31am

Not from indigenous people. I see them as victims in this they are used as an excuse for changing the date.

A poll done a few years ago showed even among indigenous people only about 60% supported a date change and even then how many actually really cared or answered based on how they are expected to answer.

Divisive non indigenous woke people and some media are the issue.

BTW. Lets be real just in the last 20 years we have seen the eroding of Aussie culture, its suppose to adapat and change while other cultures preserved.

Which is actually a problem in itself for indigenous people its what holds indigenous people in remote community's back, because to move from traditional lands to go to uni etc. and get a good job is seen as going against cultural tradition.

Success in modern society is seen as turning their back on culture.

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brutus Wednesday, 27 Jan 2021 at 11:29am

Indo,"But its not my culture, as an non indigenous Aussie i have little tradition and culture and the little i do have a minority want to destroy.

Its really sad no over culture in the world other than western culture is so self destructive."

what's sad Indo is that when you say it's not my culture as a non- indigenous Aussie.........so why can't you embrace the history , good and bad.......and we all can be Aussies...by you taking the stance, that indigenous Australians are different from other Aussies....well there's the problem, fragmentation of Australian from within...

Is your view of a future Australian , drawn along racial lines or an all encompassing Australia where everyone is equal , Poms/Serbs/Russians/Chinese/Vietnamese/Indigenous Aussies /Italians/Greeks......a cosmopolitan society....I mean what other choice is there?