The United States(!) of A

factotum's picture
factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Friday, 28 Aug 2020 at 9:09pm

Blowy I don't want to get into that. I've stated my position, see my posts above.

I'm tired.

1173

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Friday, 28 Aug 2020 at 9:14pm

Thanks Zen enjoy the beer.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 10:14am

You can point fingers and say x is worse than y all you like, but one undeniable fact is that the US is absolutely falling apart under Trump's watch. Can they come back from it? Doesn't feel too likely to me...

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 10:18am

" Make America Great Again"
.....and hasn't that gone well! 180,000 dead, economy in crisis, widespread rioting and violence.

JQ's picture
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JQ commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 10:21am

It's almost as if exploiting existing social division and sowing hatred and fear, while effective in duping people into voting for you, is not healthy for your country.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 10:51am

What about the Republican convention playing to Trump's "strengths" - unReality TV

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:07am

A message from Michael Moore:

"Sorry to have to provide the reality check again, but when CNN polled registered voters in August in just the swing states, Biden and Trump were in a virtual tie. In Minnesota, it’s 47-47. In Michigan, where Biden had a big lead, Trump has closed the gap to 4 points. Are you ready for a Trump victory? Are you mentally prepared to be outsmarted by Trump again? Do you find comfort in your certainty that there is no way Trump can win? Are you content with the trust you’ve placed in the DNC to pull this off? The Biden campaign just announced he’ll be visiting a number of states— but not Michigan. Sound familiar? I’m warning you almost 10 weeks in advance. The enthusiasm level for the 60 million in Trump’s base is OFF THE CHARTS! For Joe, not so much. Don’t leave it to the Democrats to get rid of Trump. YOU have to get rid of Trump."

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:24am

It's the PT Barnum effect.
"No-one ever went broke under-estimating (American) public taste."

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:42am

And here’s why... https://youtu.be/y5V-vyUmslY

Democrats have been sowing the seeds of division amongst US citizens and now it’s coming back to bite them on the arse .

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:44am

blowin, if you want people to click your links, you need to provide a little bit of information about the source. I certainly won't click any of your links like the one above because they typically lead to social media pages of crackpots and professional racists. I simply loathe the idea of adding to their hit count and increasing their earning capacity.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:51am

Is Michael Moore inciting political violence and a complete rejection of democracy through a coup ?

Probably. That’s why the Democrats won’t get elected ....the public knows they are the real threat to democracy :
*Attempted coup through Russiagate hoax .
*Attempted coup through Ukraine impeachment hoax.
*Undermining of democratically elected President through treasonous “ resistance “ by public servants.
*Worst of all- the encouragement, enabling and promotion of violence inflicted upon innocent Americans on US streets with three months of riots. The plan was to get Trump to overreact so the military could remove him in a coup . Trump didn’t overreact and now the Democrat states which incited and allowed the violence are known for the treasonous scum they are by removing police and protecting rioters.

Biden now shitting himself cause it’s being reflected in the polls. The silent majority knows the Democrats wanted the violence and it’s now backfired.

This has nothing to do with left wing / right wing or conservatives/ liberals . This is cruel and desperate politics played by despicable, power hungry politicians and their media hounds.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:56am

Democrats openly broadcast their rejection of democracy years ago . Shameless in their grasping for control.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/3-ways-to-get-rid-of-president-trum...

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:57am

Vic Local.....you are a social media crackpot.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 11:59am

The end part of Michael Moore's message I forgot to add:

"WE have to wake up every day for the next 67 days and make sure each of us are going to get a hundred people out to vote. ACT NOW!"

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:03pm

The Democrats can’t believe that the four years of gaslighting that it’s Trump , not themselves, who are promoting division within the US , has failed. The public know the Democrats want hatred between black / white , latino/ white and between white Americans themselves.

Q :Who’d have thought that Democrats getting mindless ,social reject fascist mobs to shout , threaten and intimidate the public into accepting race divisions would backfire ? That burning , rioting and destruction would alienate people ?

A: Anyone with a brain.

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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:24pm

“ Multiple high-profile Democrats have spoken out against violence at Black Lives Matter protests, sparked by the death of George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer in May.
On May 31, the fifth night of demonstrations, former Vice President Joe Biden, the party’s presumptive nominee, wrote in a statement that protesting police brutality is “right and necessary” and the “American response."
“But burning down communities and needless destruction is not,” Biden wrote. “Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13/fact-check-demo...

I think it is hard to maintain the argument that the Democrats are to blame for the violence Dude. It is hard to imagine that reverse psychology would work in these circumstances. The reason people are rioting is because they are angry and there are a lot of different reasons for that. Some of them have been caused by Trump, but others go back much further. One of the key roles of a leader in any context is to unite people. We might disagree about the reasons Trump has failed in this key area, but you cannot realistically argue that he has been successful

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soggydog commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:35pm

In all the above discussion no one mentioned “Agents Provocoteur” ( spelling could be a bit off) which have been used since the sixties to stir up violence and or looting to de-legitimised more left wing protests.
There are numerous existing examples even in the current protests.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:41pm

I don’t think Trump did the US any favours with his near- contempt of his role as President in regards to truly unifying everyone. Also , whilst I don’t imagine that Trump is the uber racist that his enemies would have us believe , his efforts such as his remarks over the Charlotsville murder a while back , were inept in the most generous interpretation .

But he’s trodden the right line with the riots. I no longer refer to them as BLM because I think that pretence has receded so far into the background that it’s almost insignificant. The riots are now primarily pure disruption and politically motivated. His urge to quell the threat to innocent civilians has not gone unnoticed by the public , nor has the behaviour of the Democrat state leaders who are directly responsible for the extent and duration of the violence.

No amount of media spin will erase the policies and acts of those state leaders who actively disempowered any formal response to the destruction and violence.

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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:41pm

soggy there is certainly some of that going on from far right white supremacists through to antifa on the left. Then there are the opportunists who always appear when there is a chance to do some looting.

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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:42pm

".....nor has the behaviour of the Democrat state leaders who are directly responsible for the extent and duration of the violence."

I am not aware of them playing a role. Any info?

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:45pm

Soggydog....it’d take a special kind of ignorance to believe that the riots are completely organic. It’s not like the idea of a colour revolution is a secret and a purely theoretical concept.

Don’t imagine either side is innocent of that behaviour though. There’s a lot at stake.

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:49pm

De Blasio , Cuomo , lightfoot , Durkan , Ellison etc etc

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 12:54pm

Yeh but what was it they did...or didn't do. As I said I haven't seen any comment on their role.

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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 1:00pm

Coincidentally I just came across this:

“Yet he was also governed by an instinct or a calculation (who can say which?) telling him that not all human action derives from or is governed by reason: there is an impulse to war and self-destruction, a need for faith in things that are not rational, and a tendency to chaos……”

Don Watson on Paul Keating, but with a universal truth embedded.

JQ's picture
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JQ commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 1:31pm

Blowin with the 'alternative facts' again. Genuinely delusional stuff you're into there.

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 1:36pm

I reckon blowin could achieve a PW (as opposed to PB) on the forum today.
He's gone in hard early, and we all know what happens when the alcohol kicks in. Might be in for some fun today. Lot's of full on abuse, someone is bound to get called "a retard", and we could even see threats of violence. Strap yourselves in folks.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 1:56pm

Nah, he'll take a chill pill and come back later.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 2:09pm

Not sure what’s all the excitement here. Democrats are a centre to middle right party and the Republicans are seemingly now a far right party. Vote for either you’re still standing in shit, only the depth changes but that’s all, nothing else will change, the inequity, the injustice, the poverty, nothing. Nth America is broken and it’s not for fixing, the constitution, the stacked Supreme Court and too many vested interest groups will block any and all reform no matter who is the president.

loungelizard's picture
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loungelizard commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 2:13pm

which is why so many Americans are trying to get to china and cross the border to Mexico..

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 2:15pm

"Vote for either you’re still standing in shit, only the depth changes....."

And that really matters when one side is going to get you in it over your head while the other just leaves you with smelly shoes.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 2:30pm

"which is why so many Americans are trying to get to china and cross the border to Mexico.."

Yep reality is often very different than what many paint on Swellnet forums

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 2:37pm

@ Zen

IMHO Zen your views are some of the most balanced here but in this case you quite obviously missed the point. (i guess i wasn't very clear though)

Im talking about the idea of systemic racism in general in USA, in regards to police shootings both you and me know why more black guys get shot, it's the same reason why more men get shot than women by police.

No matter skin colour or race or whatever BS in this day and age people will make off their lives what they will and others will look to blame others for their shortcomings.

And people like Vic will continue encouraging people to be victims and look for racism in everything and everyone and sadly there is a whole army of Vic's out there stirring up shit and fuelling division.

Anyway i was curious to see the make up of the police force in the USA, this is a great website that shows you the population ethnicity make up and then compares it to the police force in that area

https://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/police-department-offi...

Flicking through a dozen areas i was actually quite surprised that each group Hispanic, Black, Asian compared to their groups population in the areas is pretty well representation compared to their populations in those areas.

BTW. In regards to NZ voting in a female PM, what it confirms is that NZ isn't over run with sexist men.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 2:38pm

"......which is why so many Americans are trying to get to china and cross the border to Mexico.."

So you are suggesting that the Democrats are going to make America like China or Mexico. Now that is batshit crazy!

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 3:06pm

I think you’ll find it was sarcasm.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 3:14pm

Got to disagree blowfly the Democrats don’t have a kinder gentler machine gun hand ... one of the great lies of US politics, they are for and of the right. My earlier post - their constitution, Supreme Court and the neoliberal machine all stymie any meaningful change. The place is fucked, face it.

Incoming .... someone doing his resurchin

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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 3:19pm

One of the more disturbing aspects of the opinions that come out here is the number of people who accept the proposition that there is no difference between another 4 years of Trump and 4 years of Biden. This is surely just wilful ignorance. Given his track record in completely disregarding the welfare of the population in the pandemic and the fact that another crisis of one sort or another is never far away, the risks are simply too great to ignore. Yep Biden is just another neolib with nothing much in the way of a conscience or a welfare policy, and yep it will be fucked if he wins but then there is fucked, totally fucked and terminally, perpetually, entirely fucked......which is where Trump and the Republicans are headed.

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sypkan commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 3:55pm

all sorts of delusions (denial?) goin on here

the democrats have egged on antifa for four years, then denied they even exist, and are now about to blame them for everything they've manufactured, as a catch all scapegoats it would seem

the democrat leaders of the worst cities are totally culpable, they essentially told their police force to stand down, which gave the rioters a free pass to do whatever the fuck they wanted, ...and they did... for three months!

democrats and blm (essentially one and the same) have been paying for the bail and lawyers fees of arrested rioters, they get arrested, get represented, get released, and are free the very next day to get back out there on the streets, to peacefully rejoin the peaceful protests of course...

the message from the dems and their affiliated groups is get out there and go hard, fuck shit up, we've got your back, tear the place apart, and bring down trump

antifa and blm, think they're on the cusp of a socialist revolution, and the corporate dems are just using them up as pawns to continue their twisted brand of neoliberal globalism

both groups think they're part of some 1960's like civil rights like movement, as I said, all sorts of delusion going on...

keep attacking blowin, despite your revolving list of character assasination attempts, he's the only one going anywhere near the ttuth

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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 4:07pm

Not a grain of evidence, just another rant, but you're always good for a laugh slyppery, so keep it coming. What next? How Trump saved the world from COVID and brought peace and tranquility to America?
"Make America Great Again?" 180,000 dead, violence on the streets, economy tanking and.....whee hoo off to the bottom of the garden.....it's all the Democrats fault, nothing to do with the Republican President or the fact the Republicans dominated Congress until the mid-terms and still control the Senate. It must be difficult living permanently in an alternate reality....I mean do you actually exist in the real world or are you some sort of phantom, hovering around the servers and slithering through the cables?

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 4:21pm

I agree there will be meaningful differences but for the reasons in my previous posts structurally a Democrat president will make little difference, perhaps 3-4 consecutive terms of Democrat presidents incrementally effecting change just might make a real difference. Where another 4 years of Trump will make a lasting negative impact perhaps for decades to come is in further ultra conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, that’s where real power rests.

Over to you .....

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 4:33pm

Bernie Sanders and Tulsi gabbard would have made a meaningful difference to the status quo.

And that’s why the Democrat party ensured they’d never get a run.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 4:44pm

For any readers out there interested in what Blowfly AKA Blind boy has had to say about Trump in the past, don't forget to catch up with his previous threads he started.

No I'm not taking the piss these are real threads with the real tittles that he has started.

Unhealthy obsession?

(Trump) https://www.swellnet.com/comment/531932
(The Trump Agenda) https://www.swellnet.com/forums/politico/349688
(Trump's Moment of Truth) https://www.swellnet.com/forums/politico/351349
(Trump and the concept of an elite) https://www.swellnet.com/comment/532750
(Trump and the risk of war) https://www.swellnet.com/comment/576667
(Trump and the Korean crisis) https://www.swellnet.com/comment/549208
(Turnbull and Trump) https://www.swellnet.com/comment/534060

And as special bonus you can get more of his views on Trump here in a thread started by some other poster
(Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?) ://www.swellnet.com/comment/585839

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 4:51pm

Resurcher turns stalker but never not a pillock ....

sorry Zen he’s so asking for it all dull eyed but bushy tailed!

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 5:17pm

slyppery, slyppery, slyppery, the gift that keeps on giving! And right on happy hour as well! One man's twitter feed is not evidence of anything.

Oh and Indo, I don't think there is much in any of those threads I would disagree with now. I know the idea of someone reading widely and having an interest in politics beyond these threads may be difficult for you to grasp, but there you go, we're all different.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 5:19pm

Yes Guy we know you have learnt a new word this week, but really do you have to use it every time you troll me?

It's really not clever or funny.

Providing links to BB old threads on Trump to show what a wacko he is, isn't exactly stalking, dont worry it took about a minute with google and a few cut and paste.

Not like the time and effort Facto sometimes must go too to search through pages and pages of very old threads just to quote people, now thats weird.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 5:21pm

ok boomer

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 5:34pm

Ha ha ha, the wit and wisdom of Mr Slyppery...... he can't even come up with an original insult.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 5:39pm

it's not an insult, just conceding that you are always right...

your record speaks for itself

blowfly's picture
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blowfly commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 5:47pm

In case you missed them.
“ Trump's priorities are becoming clearer. The talk of walls, immigration reform and other issues is a smokescreen. His real agenda is to increase the wealth and power of the corporations and the repulsively rich. “

“Trump represents a triumph of money and influence over the remnants of a weak and ineffective democratic system. The United States has always been a plutocracy. Despite the high sounding language of its constitution, that was the intention of its founders. What is new is the disruptive power of technology and its capacity to further concentrate wealth and power. A side benefit is the power it delivers to manipulate elections and public debate. From climate change denial to the Trump campaign, the theme is the same. Follow the money and you will find the real power.”

“John McCain's statement that Trump's scandals have reached Watergate proportions changes everything. It is a clear call to the Republicans in Congress to consider their position. So far they have been willing to trade off Trump's obvious incompetence and untrustworthiness against the opportunity to push through parts of their agenda that have never before been possible.”

“The issue is not Trump himself. His record proves that he is incapable of thinking rationally for long enough to plan anything beyond the next trip around his self-created goldfish bowl. His profound cognitive limitations, matched by his bottomless narcissism, suggest a personality trapped in an infantile state. The people who put him into the White House now control him. “

“One of the few consistent themes in Trump's rise to power has been his attack on the Washington elite. By this he appears to mean those who have the power to make policy, and those who profit from that policy. His promise to "drain the swamp" resonated with many voters who understand that their share of the US national wealth has been decreasing, while that of the elite has been increasing.
This analysis is valid, as far as it goes. No unbiased observer can doubt that globalisation, and the free trade agreements that have come with it, have severely impacted many American communities. Factories have shut down, real wages have dropped. Employment opportunities for unskilled or low skilled workers are in decline. People have every right to feel that they have been duped, and to resent those who have taken advantage of these changes to increase their already substantial wealth.
Trump's popularity, as far as it goes, rests on his promise to reverse these processes. The problem is that he won't. “

“The third barrier is that his campaign, knowingly or not was built upon a lie. His government will entrench privelege and increase inequality. Through-out Obama's period in office Republicans consistently blocked legislation to raise minimum wages or provide greater support to struggling communities. Obama managed to get his health care package through and it is already being undone without a whisper of what might replace it. Even if Trump was genuine, which he clearly is not, he could not shift the Republican dominated congress. The consequences of this great betrayal will lead to unparalleled divisions in US society. Be glad you don't live there.”

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local commented Saturday, 29 Aug 2020 at 6:09pm

Without getting into a massive debate about the policy differences between the dems and the GOP, I'm just going to point out the crucial difference in character of the two candidates. Biden actually has empathy and cares about the citizens of the USA, Trump is a narcissist who only cares about himself.
I will give you an example of Trump's scary character flaw. We are in a pandemic, but Trump's organisation insists on creating potential super spreader events (at airports / rallies etc) where MAGA people gather in close proximity, sans masks, screaming their support for Trump. Anyone with any brains knows this is highly irresponsible but Trump still goes ahead because it's his best chance of getting re-elected. If his own fans die, that's a price Trump is willing others to pay.
That my friends is a sign of a morally bankrupt and highly dangerous person. The covid death count in the USA is largely down to Trump and he is literally sacrificing people to get the economy back open as part of a re-election campaign.
If he wins 2020 (and can't stand in 2024) he will have nothing to lose and be even more dangerous. The Trump body count will no doubt keep rising at an exponential rate.
And this bloke has the gaul to say people need to vote for him to avoid chaos.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"