Surfing and Veganism

Stok's picture
Stok started the topic in Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 3:17pm

I think surfers, by their nature, are generally pretty in tune with the environment - more so than the general public.

We regularly get to fully immerse ourselves in the raw, unforgiving ocean, sometimes that ocean may be hours away from civilisation. We get to see sides of the ocean many don't, and all surfers feel somewhat connected to it.

Surfers are usually concerned about climate change, dwindling natural resources, excessive human population increase, exploitation of sea animals (Bali Dolphins, Seaworld etc), Tuna cages (Victor Harbor) and shark diving - hell even general littering (I've never seen a true surfer litter).

So I thought I’d put it out there – is anyone on this forum vegan? If not, have you ever considered it?

Living a vegan lifestyle is pretty much as close as you can get to being sustainable in our modern society. Aside from the health and serious and significant ethical reasons to become vegan (and there are so, so many of ethical reasons available), sustainability is a huge one. Human demand for seafood is straight out killing our oceans. Livestock is also killing them – directly through creating ‘ocean dead zones’ near farmland and indirectly through agriculture’s massive carbon footprint.

As a lifelong surfer, and only a recent vegan (6 months) I encourage you to watch this, and consider if you want to continue being a part of one of the most destructive ways of life the earth has ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLgkrQSRy9E

p.s. I became vegan only for sustainable and ethical reasons – I actually don’t think eating meat is necessarily wrong, and I do believe in the food chain and apex predators – But the way humans consume is not what I would consider part of the food chain. We’re not an apex predator – we’re a destructive bacteria.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 2:06pm

Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

Sheepdog

floyd's picture
floyd's picture
floyd commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 2:32pm

you did a good thing sheepy - full respect to you

benski's picture
benski's picture
benski commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 2:45pm

Yeah man that's a heavy situation. Good on you for doing what had to be done.

Was around cattle a fair bit as a kid and it sounds silly but I learned to respect them as I saw them learn things as their lives went on responding to people, food, pain, a good scratch on their back. Those tasty creatures are more intelligent than many give them credit for.

tim foilat's picture
tim foilat's picture
tim foilat commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 2:50pm

Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 2:58pm

So as a young fella who probably had no real idea how to kill an animal that large, seeing it in pain and suffering and ending it's life without shedding a tear.

Is that what makes a man?

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 3:41pm

tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Sorry, dude.... Next time I'll turn around and drive the hour back to Mildura, get there at 10 pm, break into a butcher shop, get the right equipment, drive back to the wounded beast, and do it properly, instead of utilizing what I had on me at the time... Thanks for the advice, man....

Sheepdog

benski's picture
benski's picture
benski commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 3:43pm

What does it have to do with manhood anyway?

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 3:44pm

Cheers, Floyd, Benski, Zen...

Sheepdog

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 3:59pm

Nice one Greebs for joining the convo....I'm like you in the sense I never thought I could even be vegan, but I always respected the lifestyle, anyone who sacrifices for the good of other deserves a pat on the back. And yes it's very easy and you don't miss out!

Respect for what you did Sheepdog, definitely the right thing and not at all easy, such big, powerful, beautiful and smart creatures. If more people came face to face with death like this I'd suspect there'd be plenty more vegans.

And it took 8 pages of posts until manhood was mentioned, good work Swellnet community.

tim foilat's picture
tim foilat's picture
tim foilat commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 4:01pm

Sheepdog wrote:
tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Sorry, dude.... Next time I'll turn around and drive the hour back to Mildura, get there at 10 pm, break into a butcher shop, get the right equipment, drive back to the wounded beast, and do it properly, instead of utilizing what I had on me at the time... Thanks for the advice, man....

No problems at all, these things happen all the time, you'd know the more time you spend on the road the more chance you have of this type of scenario, it's good to know how get the job done as efficiently as possible.

As for what it's got to do with manhood I introduced that, on my reading nothing but could have done with some of said qualities. If I saw a man on the side of the road covered in blood, holding a knife, by a dead cow, crying...I would stop and ask if he was ok. I'd keep the doors locked and the windows mostly up if he was in knifing distance but I'd make sure he wasn't suffering.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 5:54pm

greebs wrote:
Hi indo.... Yep that's me muttly and no he doesn't live on vegetable scraps although he absolutely loves carrots. I'm not even sure if he could live on a vegetarian diet, I suspect not. The crucial difference is he isnt aware of sophisticated arguments around animal welfare / ethics / ecology whereas we are and we have the ability to choose.

Anyway all cool, very interesting perspectives. Ride on.

Yeah he doesn't but you make his food choices for him, anyway I'm glad to hear you still feed him meat, i think it would be cruel not too.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 6:27pm

tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote:
tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Sorry, dude.... Next time I'll turn around and drive the hour back to Mildura, get there at 10 pm, break into a butcher shop, get the right equipment, drive back to the wounded beast, and do it properly, instead of utilizing what I had on me at the time... Thanks for the advice, man....

No problems at all, these things happen all the time, you'd know the more time you spend on the road the more chance you have of this type of scenario, it's good to know how get the job done as efficiently as possible.

As for what it's got to do with manhood I introduced that, on my reading nothing but could have done with some of said qualities. If I saw a man on the side of the road covered in blood, holding a knife, by a dead cow, crying...I would stop and ask if he was ok. I'd keep the doors locked and the windows mostly up if he was in knifing distance but I'd make sure he wasn't suffering.

few men would have the courage to tell that story.

Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68's picture
Rabbits68 commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 6:40pm

tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Seriously mate, sounds like you need a good cry yourself. Let it out. Deliberately keeping these powerful emotions in will get hold of you in the end, you'll get crook.

Must of been confronting Sheepy. Good deed alright.....

Crystal Clear

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 6:47pm

Your story sheepdog is very real, and I think most people would react as you did.

What's interesting though is there are people who see and do this daily to countless perfectly healthy, young animals - not to eat themselves, but to earn a living. Some of the meat will go to expensive steaks, some to a McDonald's hamburger. I feel sorry for people who have to work at slaughter houses, even if they don't feel any connection to the animals, it's a sad life.

Also, is it a case of the bigger the animal, the more real it is? For example, is there a difference between slaughtering a chicken, to a fish, to a cow, to an elephant or to a whale?

No disrespect to people who have to work to earn a living.

benski's picture
benski's picture
benski commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 6:57pm

Is there a difference? Not in my mind. I take spiders out to the garden rather than kill them. I'd rather not kill anything unless for food. Cockies are killed but I'm not happy about it. Usually apologise to em for what that's worth. Killing a fish can be profound because you see the life drain out of their eyes. But as we're predators I'm ok with that for food.

For me, if there was a way to kill a whale instantly I'd have no trouble with whaling. We can work out reasonable estimates for maximum sustainable yields, when a fishery is managed well, so we can have a pretty good idea about preventing extinction. If they could take the animal out without suffering I'd support a sustainable harvest I reckon. Only thing is we can't do that and the animal suffers pretty badly as far as we can tell.

I figure if you're happy to harvest one mammal species, why draw the line arbitrarily at another?

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 7:16pm

What about dolphins?

benski's picture
benski's picture
benski commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 7:34pm

Same principle. If we could harvest them humanely and manage the numbers so as to not have a detrimental effect on the ecosystem, I can't see why I could object to people eating dolphins. I probably would choose not to eat them but to me they have as much right to life as a cow or a chicken or a lobster or a spider. Since I'm ok that we eat those animals I'm ok if we ate dolphins subject to the same ethical conditions that are important to me.

tim foilat's picture
tim foilat's picture
tim foilat commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 8:07pm

happyasS wrote:
tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote:
tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Sorry, dude.... Next time I'll turn around and drive the hour back to Mildura, get there at 10 pm, break into a butcher shop, get the right equipment, drive back to the wounded beast, and do it properly, instead of utilizing what I had on me at the time... Thanks for the advice, man....

No problems at all, these things happen all the time, you'd know the more time you spend on the road the more chance you have of this type of scenario, it's good to know how get the job done as efficiently as possible.

As for what it's got to do with manhood I introduced that, on my reading nothing but could have done with some of said qualities. If I saw a man on the side of the road covered in blood, holding a knife, by a dead cow, crying...I would stop and ask if he was ok. I'd keep the doors locked and the windows mostly up if he was in knifing distance but I'd make sure he wasn't suffering.

few men would have the courage to tell that story.

Haha for sure

rule303's picture
rule303's picture
rule303 commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 8:10pm

Stok wrote:

I think surfers, by their nature, are generally pretty in tune with the environment - more so than the general public.

As a lifelong surfer, and only a recent vegan (6 months) I encourage you to watch this, and consider if you want to continue being a part of one of the most destructive ways of life the earth has ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLgkrQSRy9E .[ /quote]

the terms skeptical and proof are lost from your post
the KOOL AID you were offering and I fear you were fed by organisations like http://www.opsociety.org/donate/. THE MAKERS OF THE VIDEO
WHO ADMITTEDLY ARE "A team of passionate artists, activists and change agents commited to sustainability and the preservation of our oceans and planet "
CHANGE AGENTS WHO ARE THESE CHANGE AGENTS
The Oceanic Preservation Society is a Colorado-based 501(c)(3) non-profit organization that promotes marine conservation and environmentalism and addresses issues such as animal rights and censorship.[1] AND CENSORSHIP???
current executive director Louie Psihoyos and Silicon Valley entrepreneur Jim Clark.
Jim clark http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/news/2015/day-3/american-victory-as-com...

IS SPENDING MILLIONS ON a yacht and professional crew to race around the world full time
Vegan and sustainable is it right that they need donations from people to fund videos with stock footage and questionable statements WITHOUT DOING ANY RESEARCH WHILST GOING AROUND THE WORLD RACING YACHTS. DO NOT DRINK THE KOOL AID BE SKEPTICAL.
What scientists do they employ ??? How many full time yacht racers do they employ???
What research do they do ???
Thats right they make videos about the evils that we can right by donating

I am done with this post as i have bigger fish to fry namely locally we have been seriously polluted by Di-hyrdogen Monoxide in our creeks and rivers and it flows to the ocean. we are looking for people to champion of cause around Australia . You will not be paid as we have no money but you will be a CHANGE AGENT
show your support BAN Di-Hyrdogen Monoxide
PRINT YOUR OWN tshirts its FREE we do not require donations, create your own designs and videos and spread the word

tim foilat's picture
tim foilat's picture
tim foilat commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 8:20pm

Rabbits68 wrote:
tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Seriously mate, sounds like you need a good cry yourself. Let it out. Deliberately keeping these powerful emotions in will get hold of you in the end, you'll get crook.

Must of been confronting Sheepy. Good deed alright.....

Sound advice, thanks rabs a timely reminder. I went on an anti depressant a while back but it didn't work out and I had to stop taking them after only a few weeks because I was having stomach cramps. One of the side effects of coming off them was to magnify my experience of sadness. For about a week I was bursting into tears at the drop of hat. I couldn't watch the news without crying at the headline stories. Thankfully it subsided, totally irrational.

I feel confident that my emotional responses are normal and rational, I wouldn't need to cry after/during killing a half dead cow. It's unpleasant and it's sad to see an animal in distress but I drive past dead animals on the road almost daily, maybe I'm conditioned that way but I don't cry when I see them either.

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 9:36pm

tim foilat wrote:
Rabbits68 wrote:
tim foilat wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: Driving from Mildura towards Broken Hill years ago , 1993 by memory, 9ish pm... A bull was laying 1/2 on the road, been hit by a truck... Broken spine... Agony.. I had my fishing gear in the car, including several knives, one of which was a biggn... Always keep them sharp.... With a heavy heart, i knew what i had to do.... Anyone who has ever had to plunge a knife into the throat of a leather covered beast knows it's a lot harder than you think... Incredibly tough skin.... On the first attempt, I didn't complete the gory task.... On the second attempt, i was successful... Blood gushed out and drenched me... I stayed with the beast as it bled out over several minutes, stroking it's head.... I was profoundly affected... But it had to be done... The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaken, with tears in my eyes.....

A good sharp knife is what you need, not a machete or whatever it was you used, something with a sharp point and blade. Stand over the body behind the shoulders stab it through the throat and cut forward to sever the carotid arteries while you pull its head back to keep tension. Take you one go, a couple of seconds and you won't get covered in blood.
Pull yourself together, is this what manhood has come to? Make a meal out of killing a paralysed animal and then cry about it?

Seriously mate, sounds like you need a good cry yourself. Let it out. Deliberately keeping these powerful emotions in will get hold of you in the end, you'll get crook.

Must of been confronting Sheepy. Good deed alright.....

Sound advice, thanks rabs a timely reminder. I went on an anti depressant a while back but it didn't work out and I had to stop taking them after only a few weeks because I was having stomach cramps. One of the side effects of coming off them was to magnify my experience of sadness. For about a week I was bursting into tears at the drop of hat. I couldn't watch the news without crying at the headline stories. Thankfully it subsided, totally irrational.

I feel confident that my emotional responses are normal and rational, I wouldn't need to cry after/during killing a half dead cow. It's unpleasant and it's sad to see an animal in distress but I drive past dead animals on the road almost daily, maybe I'm conditioned that way but I don't cry when I see them either.

Mate that's all good, I suppose my point was that's it's ok for others to shed tears if they feel the need. Your "manhood" call just came across as a bit of old school thinking IMO that's all. Seeing most living creatures that are in any major distress is hard to watch I reckon....

Crystal Clear

wellymon's picture
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wellymon commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 10:05pm

Oopps, I Shouldn't of said boo about the Wallaby massacre!

Every boy is conditioned differently, whilst growing to become a man, likewise on both sides of the ditch;)
For myself ,it was the norm to go hunting with Dad, shoot a deer or a pig, cut its neck off, with a twisting, grinding snap. Chuck that in the bushes, lay it on it's back, arse end downhill, slice the belly open without bursting the stomach, put ya hands, way up inside and yank every inner out. Cut the gonads off, chuck them at your brother. Put it on ya back, for a 2-3 hr hard slog back out to the road or farm house, covered in blood down the backs off ya legs. Hang it up in the shed for a few days, skinit for your new rug in the hallway, cut it up into well portioned meals ready for the freezer.
At the age of 12, that makes you feel like a little kind of a MAN,ah, especially when Dad would give you a big smile and say well done.

As the Sheepio said

Sheepdog The beast slowly went to sleep... Gone in the back of the boot.... I wiped what blood I could off me, hopped back in my car, and continued to broken hill shaking with excitement to tell Dad, tears in my eyes with laughter and manhood, knowing we were gonna have a good feed for the family.....[/quote wrote:

Well done Sheepio.
And just as the knife is used as a weapon, asparagus's javelin-shaped form can be viewed as symbolic for its age and disease-fighting abilities.
I've had mine today, have you;)

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

greebs's picture
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greebs commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 10:32pm

Thanks Stok.

To 303, no need to denigrate people or groups who are fighting for a just cause, no matter their wealth or motivations or what they need to do to fund their work, in most cases anyway. It's hard to even get your point! What's wrong with being passionate and committed!! Or artistic! (as per the environmental group seek to denigrate). Gee... They have a wealthy backer (who believes in the cause). They seek donations to fight the good fight. Nothing wrong so far!

Hundreds of animal welfare and environmental groups seek, indeed need, donations and I for one am happy to help out. Some of these organisations are, thankfully, extremely well resourced and funded. I'm stoked with that !! And I've got no probs with millionaire sponsors ALSO enjoying a yacht racing, it's separate to the environmental work and half their luck.

Sometimes, just sometimes, such groups and people do create positive change. Stoked with that too.

Be skeptical of them? Koolaid?. Evidence? Of what... The suffering of animals of all species within our meat industries? Surely you jest! Plenty of that out there bloke. But we don't even need science to understand this, or the mounting evidence of atrocities coming to light across all sectors of the animal industry (prawns, greyhound racing anyone?), just a brain and some empathy. I've enjoyed reading most of the posts here but sheeesh you're way outta the loop if you dont get the impact we're having.

Greebs

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greebs commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 10:57pm

Sounds like you take such glee welly in murdering an animal.. All for a good cause of course, ie a rug and to put in your stomach. Thanks for the details... Not.

Greebs

tim foilat's picture
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tim foilat commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 11:10pm

Hehe coming from the guy who feels it's ok to murder said animals so he can have a pet poodle to dress up, where can I find this loop that you're in?

Stok's picture
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Stok commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 11:26pm

benski wrote: Same principle. If we could harvest them humanely and manage the numbers so as to not have a detrimental effect on the ecosystem, I can't see why I could object to people eating dolphins. I probably would choose not to eat them but to me they have as much right to life as a cow or a chicken or a lobster or a spider. Since I'm ok that we eat those animals I'm ok if we ate dolphins subject to the same ethical conditions that are important to me.

Last question - what about humans? Can we humanely eat humans? There's plenty of humans, and we can even ask them if they mind being eaten after they die!

The natural order of things has been mentioned a bit in this thread, how suffering, killing and consuming is natural - hey, even your Dad will grin at you when you're covered in the blood of another being! - but what about cannibalism? Plenty of species are cannibals, so, like isn't that part of the natural suffering of things?

What gives you the right to go shoot a roo for example, and eat it? What penalises you for shooting a human and eating them? A set of rules...created by humans. A set of rules to define what is normal, natural etc.

It's natural to eat meat, it's unnatural to be cannibals.

So - do meat eaters have lines like vegans do? As in, will meat eaters draw the line on eating humans?

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mk1 commented Saturday, 6 Feb 2016 at 11:52pm

Cannibalism normal through tribal hunter gatherer societies, the agricultural revolution drove the need for workers and slavery replaced our cannibal past .

I have no line , so long as the human was non factory farmed and dispatched humanely.

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tim foilat commented Sunday, 7 Feb 2016 at 12:11am

Stok wrote:
benski wrote: Same principle. If we could harvest them humanely and manage the numbers so as to not have a detrimental effect on the ecosystem, I can't see why I could object to people eating dolphins. I probably would choose not to eat them but to me they have as much right to life as a cow or a chicken or a lobster or a spider. Since I'm ok that we eat those animals I'm ok if we ate dolphins subject to the same ethical conditions that are important to me.

Last question - what about humans? Can we humanely eat humans? There's plenty of humans, and we can even ask them if they mind being eaten after they die!

The natural order of things has been mentioned a bit in this thread, how suffering, killing and consuming is natural - hey, even your Dad will grin at you when you're covered in the blood of another being! - but what about cannibalism? Plenty of species are cannibals, so, like isn't that part of the natural suffering of things?

What gives you the right to go shoot a roo for example, and eat it? What penalises you for shooting a human and eating them? A set of rules...created by humans. A set of rules to define what is normal, natural etc.

It's natural to eat meat, it's unnatural to be cannibals.

So - do meat eaters have lines like vegans do? As in, will meat eaters draw the line on eating humans?

Yes we can eat humans, people do, it's generally frowned upon these days. Yes you can ask someone if they would like to be eaten after they die, people do, also frowned upon in most sophisticated circles.

Yes in some species canniballism occurs, so yes that would make it a natural process.

You don't have the right to shoot a roo and eat it you will be charged if the law catches up with you and you don't have the appropriate licenses and permissions.

The law put in place by the government will, in most cases, penalise you for shooting and eating a human. A set of rules in place to maintain some semblance of order in a complex society.

It's natural to eat meat, it's natural to cannibalise we've established that.

Meat eaters come in many varieties like vegans I'm sure some will have lines like vegan do. Will you hear about them, that is the question ;)

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wellymon commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2016 at 6:48pm

Having a nice Pork Roast tonight.
Can't wait, it's on already, 220C for 15 mins, just to crackle the skin, then turned down to 170C for 1 hour.
:)

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2016 at 7:40pm

wellymon wrote: Having a nice Pork Roast tonight.
Can't wait, it's on already, 220C for 15 mins, just to crackle the skin, then turned down to 170C for 1 hour.
:)

Rrrrr bastard almost as good as pork ribs.

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zenagain commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2016 at 9:12pm

Welly, apple sauce, gravy or a little seeded mustard?

Indo, very lightly simmer a big tablespoon of plum jam with about half a cup of smoky bbq sauce in a saucepan and brush on those ribs while you're bbq-ing. Repeat a few times while cooking. Gooey porky deliciousnous.

And as I said in a previous post, enjoy but importantly eat with love and thanks.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2016 at 9:20pm

Oh yes my wife does something similar with them they are amazing, they taste so good you know they have to be bad for you…but everything in moderation.

BTW. maybe its primal instinct or something but there is just something about eating meat off a bone…i wonder if they have a vegetarian substitute to appease this human desire?...

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zenagain commented Tuesday, 9 Feb 2016 at 9:26pm

Nut meat out of the can.

Mmmmmmm..........

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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greebs commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 12:54am

I see this thread's just about died in the rectum which is fair enough. And no-one is likely to change their ways off the back of the discussions, as expected. But in time.. Well ... you never know, I can almost guarantee one or more will go down the vego path and stay on it and all the best to you. If you do, it'll be a lightbulb moment, you'll just see the animal world (all of it, from bugs thru to whales) differently, from that moment on.

These last few posts from Zen, Welly and Indo kinda sum up the situation from the meat advocates..."It tastes delicious, I know it causes suffering to our fellow creatures, but I'm gonna eat it anyway coz ... Err...I guess I need it and Im an apex predator, and ...I can". And various other justifications. Sigh!

Indo yes I agree I think there is a primal thing there, and no there is no substitute for that particular eating experience, including, strangely enough, tinned nut meat whatever the fck that is. Hence my final point before I sign off from this post.. A degree of sacrifice is required to become vegetarian, even more so vegan. But it's not so bad. If you make the switch that sacrifice or inconvenience is massively outweighed by good feelings.

Greebs

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greebs commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 1:06am

tim foilat wrote:

Hehe coming from the guy who feels it's ok to murder said animals so he can have a pet poodle to dress up, where can I find this loop that you're in?[/quot

TIM folly... that's a cracking payout bloke, I'm shattered but I have to admit I did have a chuckle (seriously!)
Also it's not a goddam poodle ffs. Much more manly than that.

Anyway gotta get back to playing dress-ups with the puppy. Oooroo.

Greebs

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freeride76 commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 7:03am

Greebs, I missed something but are you advocating veganism while owning a dog which you feed meat?

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 8:42am
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zenagain commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 9:18am

And Greebs, don't presume to know me because I throw in a little (lame) humour about nut meat in a can or provide a delicious simple food hack, for want of a better term, for basting spare ribs.

You became a vegetarian right? You weren't raised as one? If you read my posts ages ago you'll come across the post where I mentioned a married couple I lived with. The husband was raised as a vego from birth but you wouldn'y know it, politely goes about his business. She on the other hand makes it patently clear to anybody who doesn't want to listen how disgusting they are.

You are right, you won't change my views but because I choose to eat meat (and I don't eat much meat anyway, I eat a pretty much exclusive Japanese diet- veges, rice and seafood and yep, I've even eaten whale and horse) but I also have a deep love and respect for all animals. The two stray cats that I have, who are free to come and go anytime they want, eat chicken. I'll take a fish for the table and eat it with love and gratitude and my little best mate in my avatar enjoys pieces of banana and apple in addition to meat. I hate any form of using animals for human entertainment or sport but that's for another time.

It's my hope naively that the meat I eat is killed ethically and humanely but I will repeat what I have said before, it is all food and if we eat it we should eat it with thanks and love.

Finally, I've travelled a lot in my life and I can assure you as someone mentioned previously, the choice to be vegetarian is strictly a first world one.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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greebs commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 9:27am

Freeride, last time I checked he's a dog, and I think he, unlike us, needs meat. I mentioned before we're all stuff-ups in a way with regards to our impact on other animals me included. By buying and driving a car I'm contributing to species loss and suffering somewhere down the chain, same for everything I own and do just about.

I genuinely feel a bit disheartened by that. I try to compensate by doing a lot of volunteer hours for environmental causes in between work and play including beach-nesting bird monitoring and habitat areas I've established at my local beach. And donating income to environmental causes. And being vegetarian (Ps not vegan, hope to be closer to that in time).

Back to my four legged companion (a rescued puppy) and meat... We only buy the tinned gear for him (and grain based pet biscuits ) which Im fairly sure is made from left-over or unwanted stuff from the vast human meat-food industries.

Tell ya what... I'll look into the "can dogs be healthy and happy on vegetarian diet" thing. I will.
cheers.

Greebs

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greebs commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 9:31am

Indo.. Agree. it's awful. And once again, it's not necessary. thankfully many, many manufactures have seen the light.

Greebs

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tim foilat commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 9:34am

" We only buy the tinned gear for him (and grain based pet biscuits ) which Im fairly sure is made from left-over or unwanted stuff from the vast human meat-food industries."

And your concerned for animal welfare??? Poor fucking dog, fork out for some chicken necks ya cheap bugger.

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greebs commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 9:41am

Zenagain, a very well considered position and I can tell you very much care about our furry, feathered, scaly friends, which I picked up from numerous other posts. All cool and all the best to you. Cheers.

Greebs

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greebs commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 9:55am

Tim .. Have done occasionally. Seems healthy enough on the gear he gets tho. Cheers.

Greebs

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zenagain commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 10:05am

And to you too man. Fight the good fight:)

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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velocityjohnno commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 10:13am

Would like to go more vegetarian based in future, with fish (pescatarian??) It's what I can describe as a strong feeling, at present.

Some observations from lots of reading and a bit of doing:

Juice fasts make me lean, able to surf much smaller boards, clear, full of energy. But are difficult to go through, especially the first 3 days or so. Most amazingly, you become hypersensitive to such regular smells such as from a restaurant, or from exhaust. The German physician Dr Max Gerson cured many of cancer in the 1920's using organic, juice based diets.

Probably the most impressive book of the 20th Century is Dr Weston A Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration." Read and understand 2 years before having children. Price, a dentist with secure income, wondered why the dentition of his clients was so poor. So he packed an entourage and most importantly a camera, and travelled the world during the 1920's and 1930's, documenting societies that had yet to have contact with the 'foods of civilisation' and constrasting them to nearby 'modernised' populations. His results - and photographs speak a thousand words - are recorded in the pics, for all to see. Natural diets, although incredibly varied (from dairy eating Swiss to seafood eating Pacific islanders) all included animal products and 'fat soluble activators'. There was not one society visited on any continent that thrived as a vegetarian society. Particularly interesting were diets applied to recently married couples, to ensure the best nutrition was available for future children. Read it.

My own mother, as a coeliac, has lived for the last 20 years eating very simple vegetables and meats. She is pleased to report only 2% athlerosclerosis (fats/hardened arteries). There's some benefit in this I must investigate more.

Lastly, an older surfer I had not seen for 5 years, looked 5 years younger when I next saw him! I asked what his diet was. He gave me the details - anyone interested to see this?

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zenagain commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 10:18am

Very interested VJ.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 10:42am

Zen what does whale meat taste like?

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 10:56am

I remember learning about fruit juices and how solid fruit is actually better for your body (even if true raw homemade juice, no added sugars etc)…i will have to google to find out the reason why again.

Oh yes there is a few reasons.

1. you loose some fibre etc when you juice rather than if you eat it whole, they also say you loose some vitamins but i guess it could be argued you could juice the whole fruit.

2. Its not as filling for some reason.

3. You need a lot of fruit to get juice, which although fruit is good its not good to eat the amounts needed and most fruits are high in sugars.

I personally love fruit and eat a lot of fruit and i love proper raw fruit juices and when in Indo drink them a lot but it is also quite easy to get the shits when you drink so much raw fruit juice.

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tim foilat commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 10:46am

greebs wrote: Tim .. Have done occasionally. Seems healthy enough on the gear he gets tho. Cheers.

Just having a laugh mate, but I just looked up on the fabulous Google and wow, pet food really is rank if you believe this...

"A rendering plant has a huge grinder that is filled up with whatever comes in. Some rendering plants are pickier than others, and some process ingredients in different batches to comply with state or local laws. But on the whole, most tend to dump in whatever they receive and start the grinder when it is full: parts from slaughterhouses, whole carcasses of diseased animals, cats and dogs from shelters, zoo animals, road kill and expired meat from grocery store shelves (tossed in fully packaged, complete with plastic wrap and Styrofoam).

This material is slowly pulverized into one big blend of dead stuff and meat packaging."

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/04/what_is...

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zenagain commented Saturday, 13 Feb 2016 at 11:10am

Indo, a bit like beef. I had it sashimi style (raw).

I won't do it again, just wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.