Submitted by Stok on Fri, 01/29/2016 - 15:17
I think surfers, by their nature, are generally pretty in tune with the environment - more so than the general public.
We regularly get to fully immerse ourselves in the raw, unforgiving ocean, sometimes that ocean may be hours away from civilisation. We get to see sides of the ocean many don't, and all surfers feel somewhat connected to it.
Surfers are usually concerned about climate change, dwindling natural resources, excessive human population increase, exploitation of sea animals (Bali Dolphins, Seaworld etc), Tuna cages (Victor Harbor) and shark diving - hell even general littering (I've never seen a true surfer litter).
So I thought I’d put it out there – is anyone on this forum vegan? If not, have you ever considered it?
Living a vegan lifestyle is pretty much as close as you can get to being sustainable in our modern society. Aside from the health and serious and significant ethical reasons to become vegan (and there are so, so many of ethical reasons available), sustainability is a huge one. Human demand for seafood is straight out killing our oceans. Livestock is also killing them – directly through creating ‘ocean dead zones’ near farmland and indirectly through agriculture’s massive carbon footprint.
As a lifelong surfer, and only a recent vegan (6 months) I encourage you to watch this, and consider if you want to continue being a part of one of the most destructive ways of life the earth has ever seen.
p.s. I became vegan only for sustainable and ethical reasons – I actually don’t think eating meat is necessarily wrong, and I do believe in the food chain and apex predators – But the way humans consume is not what I would consider part of the food chain. We’re not an apex predator – we’re a destructive bacteria.
Sheepdog said="Terrorism style attacks..............
Jesus christ...... You REALLY do listen to Alan Jones a bit too much."
Maybe not terrorist in the traditional sense, but im not sure what other word real fits?
Vigilante groups?...not really trying to enforce the law?
What would you call it? to describe people breaking into peoples farms in large groups then doing as the feel fit, letting livestock out, stealing livestock etc.
Im sure the farmers or staff would feel very intimidated , hence why the activist come in large groups and not 1, 2 or 3 etc., im sure if it happened at night, with family homes often part of the operation often with family, the family would feel terrorised.
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, and the farmers went to the activist homes/business barged in in large groups intimidating them and steal things.
BTW. Ive always meant to go to an effort to listen to Alan Jones, but I've never listened to him, i must do so.
you're a townie, indo. shut the fck up about the country.
speaking of local vegetables, when I was in the Marshall Islands......just atolls hard to grow plants the locals ate pandanus seeds.
roasted them up and ate the stringy flesh.
It was pretty nice. I've tried to eat the local ones but never been able to make them edible.
Anyone ever eaten one?
@Chook I dont think it really matters I dont think people have to live on farms to have a view on this topic?
It's not exactly a city or even a town where i live anyway, just measured on google im 750 metres away from farmland, my sister is married to an X farmer who's family still farms, he loves his farming and has chewed my ear off about farming when he worked for me (actually it was kind of interesting), also done a little work on farms mostly fixing fences and some landcare stuff when younger.
Carbon footprint including transport in CO2 Kilos, per 1kg production
The debate rages on whether Co2 actually is a problem, or if the earth is flat, but the debate is separate from the facts. The facts exist on their own.
I was disappointed with my chops tonight. Wood fired bbq was great, but defrosted from the freezer left them lacking. My body is telling me how nutritious they were. Think I’ll have vegetable rice paper rolls tomorrow
No idea how this works pretty skeptical that you can just put a figure too things like that.
But any idea anyone why lamb would come in lower than beef?
Edit: Okay its American, so pretty inaccurate for us https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-top-10-foods-with-the-biggest-env...
So many other factors that would need to be factored in, food waste for example for every KG of a crop you might have 1/3 wasted or rejected etc, failed crops, are you getting other products from the source, etc leather products etc?
Don’t forget you first need a crop to feed them, then their own crop.
I believe the global average for food wastage is 40%. 3rd world countries waste more at the primary stage and countries like Australia waste more at the final stages ie stores and homes.
So, you reckon in Australia it’s like, the opposite? Pretty similar I’d bet, pretty similar. The world average would be in the same vein
Plus plants absorb co2, and livestock creates methane.
Lamb is higher than beef according to shoredump's list, which I found interesting. I would've thought they'd be lower due to farts and length of life etc.. Length of life opens another whole can of moralistic worms, hence me never trying babi gulig in bali, much to my friends, disgust, frustration and corresponding contempt.
Pretty happy my preferred eggs and chicken are well down the scale. This is where I agree with indod, if the vegans weren't so purist and god damned nazi like, they'd win more people over.
Once upon a time being vegetarian was enough to satisfy one's youthful cravings for differentiation, not any more. It's militant veganism or nothing!
A little flexibility and reasonableness is always good for winning arguments. Like vegetarianism, it appears the people think not anymore...
For the record, I'm not disputing CO2 and the wider CC issue, I just think it's idealism and zealots overlook a lot of other things, a whole heap of things, sweeping them away at great cost. Chinese blueberries don't just have a higher carbon footprint, they'd be a heap of issues not being addressed in their chinese farming practices.
Just like there'd be a heap of other environmental issues not being addressed in the chinese factory. These things, plus the labour laws, and slave wages, are what makes the whole 'free trade' thing a complete hoax.
Something no one was willing to talk about pre orange moron, go trump!
The fuckwit has facilitated lots lots more than his dumb red neck arse is remotely aware of...
Surely meaningless Shoredump unless local factors included.
ie I can get my sausages from my mate up on the hill behind Byron Bay, herd grazing on pasture. Great closed loop system with nutrients being recycled back into the soil.
His brother has free range chooks in other paddocks. Real free range.
Carbon footprint versus tofu made from GMO soy grown overseas?
Without circumstances factored in, stats like that are meaningless, at best. Deceptive and misleading at worst.
Yeah im real curious on the Lamb higher C02 thing?
I guess has to be a reason?
But they are generally smaller and they a slaughtered earlier.
First figure is when they are slaughtered, last is average lifespan.
Lambs 6-8 months 12-14 years
“Beef” cattle 18 months 15-20 years
Personally I rarely eat lamb, maybe twice a year with a lamb roast, maybe beef once or twice a week, pork or fish once a week, chicken other nights, maybe the odd no meat meal or even tofu/tempe, and i actually dont drink milk only Soy milk, i like the taste, im a huge fruit eater too..min of three pieces of fruits a day sometimes double that.
Edit: Okay its got to do with lamb having less meat on them per overall weight than beef, however like i said if you end up also getting sheep skin or wool from them at some stage then you surely have to divide the overall C02 footprint for the different products gained.
While everyone debates who is better, between the best current sporting rivalry of Federer and Nadal, Djokovic the vegan is quietly becoming the GOAT of the tennis world
Incredible series on Food Matters TV called “ Transcendence “,
Perhaps the most insightful and inspiring thing I’ve watched in years.
Novak Djokovic is one of the people featured.
Amazing show .
Shoredump. I wouldn't read too much into it. Djokovic is a genetic freak like almost all world class athletes are and have the money to make luxuries such as veganism WHILST performing at a top level possible. Not saying you can't perform at your best while being vegan but it'd take management. Then again, would Djokovic perform say 2% better if he ate meat once a week? We will never know because his is a personal experience influenced by an array of factors that will likely have no bearing on yourself or others around you. Maybe red meat disagrees with his sleep and he eats late at night....who the heck knows his story. Picking individuals let alone the genetically endowed such as Djokovic isn't really science imo.
Why would you possibly be so earnest to discount something that may be extremely beneficial ?
If you are genuinely interested, watch the video I suggested. Djokovic will answer all of your questions in his own words and remove all of the spurious doubts you’ve cast.
Why does the concept of veganism make create so much antipathy ? I don’t get it. It’s still food, No one is suggesting you suck the blood from new born babies or exist on daydreams.
I’ve literally never felt better than when eating raw vegan.
After experiencing a horrendous physiological situation recently I finally dealt with it by eating raw vegan for only a few days. Completely and utterly rejuvenated me. All symptoms totally eradicated. I literally feel like a new and better person than I did a week ago.
I can’t really convey how much I recommend trying it. Nothing weird or esoteric about it. Just like servicing your car.
Since found I can’t function long term vegan , but who’s to say that others don’t thrive on it ?
You obviously don’t follow tennis that closely HappyAs. Djokovic credits the turn in his career from almost there guy, to world number one, to his switching to a plant based diet. His career answered your question for you already, he was at 10% less then
Whaaaat??? Hes had a stellar career dating back well before the slump he's amazingly pulled himself from. Did he eat meat back then? Sounds more like he started developing some food allergies over the years and removed stuff from his diet as anyone should. Not really the same as purpurting the benefits of veganism imo. Would be interesting to know if he's actually a vegan or just centres his diet on plants with addition of some fish and eggs.
Novak Djokovic puts his good health and swift injury recovery times down to his plant-based diet – just don’t call him a vegan.
The 32-year-old booked himself a place in the Wimbledon final on Sunday after defeating Roberto Bautista Agut.
Over the course of the championships, activists have repeatedly chalked the words “Novak Djokovic is vegan” on the pavement around Wimbledon station. But the world number one doesn’t like the term.
He said: “I don’t like the labels, to be honest. I do eat plant-based (food), for quite a few years already.
“But because of the misinterpretations of labels and misuse of labels, I just don’t like that kind of name.
“I do eat plant-based. I think that’s one of the reasons why I recover well. I don’t have allergies that I used to have any more.
He added: “And I like it.”
It is about how this diet affects the world, not just personal health, but also sustainability, ecology, animals
The four-time Wimbledon winner was an executive producer on the next instalment of the documentary Game Changers.
Produced by Avatar creator James Cameron, it looks at elite athletes who pin their success on their meat-free and dairy-free eating habits.
Djokovic said: “It is about how this diet affects the world, not just personal health, but also sustainability, ecology, animals.
“This is what I care about so I’m really privileged to be part of that team.”
Not a vegan.
But still attributes his edge to the vegan based diet he’s on. Not sure what your problem is mate, the majority of vegans aren’t strictly vegan. Similar in that big wave surfers sometimes ride a twinny in 2 foot stuff, but are still categorised as big wave surfers. Why don’t you just say it, Novak doesn’t know himself as well as you do. My original point was to show that you can be vegan, and strong. Djokovic highlights this. For what it’s worth, I’m not a vegan, but I’m thinking maybe it’s time to stop putting my head in the sand and actually get on with doing it myself. You keep your head in the sand mate, it’s comfortable down there haha
Maybe his success is a result of going gluten free, or his focus on breathing.
Or the whole package.
Absolutely it’s the whole package. Genetics, strength training etc etc.
None of those things should be discarded, including his plant based diet. I have no idea why anyone would be so adamant any of them should. I would go on to point out that the diet part is the lesser portion, but I do recognise it’s part of the Jokers puzzle that he is putting together
"Djokovic said: “It is about how this diet affects the world, not just personal health, but also sustainability, ecology, animals."
I honestly think the days of effortless hypocrisy from athletes, celebrities what have you living lives of massive carbon footprint and consumption trying to make some kind of moral statement through their food choices are over.
It's just too much a of a dud look to even consider taking seriously.
A plant based diet is actually a meaningless statement.
You want to make food decisions based on ecological footprint and sustainability eat local, seasonal food preferably the stuff you grow and catch yourself.
Totally makes sense and is the ideal. But the size of the population means the required amount of land cleared for meat is out of control and impossible for your scenario. I’ve linked on another thread the reality of the carbon footprint per weight, including transport for a variety of foods. Meats are off the scale. It is what it is. Don’t forget you need a farm to feed the animals before you even clear for them. Or you could squeeze thousands more into a tiny barn I guess. Keeping animals in a pen then using their products, milk cheese and meat, is only ok by us of course. It’s not ok for the animal. This is Djokovics point.
neither is clearing habitat to plant soybeans.
I think that argument above is BS. We need to eat less meat sure, but growing plants to feed people means agriculture and agriculture is disastrous for the environment. It's the worst ecological disaster humanity has ever inflicted on the natural world.
or the population needs to be kept under control.....the planet cant sustain endless human breeding.
Relax Shorey. Im not attacking veganism in any way, nor part-time veganism. Take a step back and read my first reply to you and you will see i'm merely questioning the ability to operate at your physical peak (such as the GOAT) on a zero meat vegan diet and that ND's story is influenced by an array of factors that are meaningless to you. Turns out that's all true unless your a celiac?. Those are just the facts so I don't see the problem. ND worked out he needs to eat fish and that's his story. Now if peak physical performance isn't critical (which it isn't to most people) then dropping all meat is fine too. If you want to eat meat once a week go ahead. Just like ND you'll work out what gives you best performance.
The real message you want to take from ND in terms of healthy eating is that he has systematically removed all foods from his diet that impact his performance. As a top level athlete that's what is important to him. He is very very smart.
The bit about where you wouldn’t read too much into it, totally disagreeing with Djokovic who does read a lot into it?
Still unsure as to why you even replied in the first place. Fella is moving into GOAT territory, credits his plant based diet (the vegan part) a good link I reckon for this thread.
Totally disagreeing??? You mean the bit where I suggested he might perform better if he ate 'some' meat. I got my head bitten off by blowin saying I'm earnestly against it. Then we find he infact DOES eat 'some' meat. Ha!
See ya mate.
Okay mate. Don’t forget to catch Djokovics vegan doco in September
Ive been vegetarian for about 30 years and vegan for about 5 years - it's not difficult to get all your nutritional needs from a purely plant-based diet as long as your vigilant/aware of what you're putting into your body - sure there's plenty of unhealthy vegans out there because they just eat crap -just because it's vegan doesn't mean it's healthy. The myth that we need to consume dairy products for calcium is just been a brilliant marketing ploy by the dairy industry - no other animal drinks another animals milk -we only need our mother's milk as babies. However i don't really have a problem if people like to consume dairy products as can understand the appeal of cheese etc and can still be produced ethically but it certainly isn't a necessary part of a healthy/balanced diet. I choose to follow a plant-based diet for health/ethical/environmental reasons but also acknowledge there's many plant-based products that aren't that ethical/environmentally friendly so try to avoid these. Ideally it's best to grow/produce as much of your own food as possible and eat seasonally.
"no other animal drinks another animals milk -we only need our mother's milk as babies. "
I love it when vegans say things like this, i actually drink Soy milk, i just prefer it to cows milk but love cheese and cream etc.
But this kind of argument is silly, no other animal, grows soy beans picks them soaks and grinds them boils the mixture, and then filters out the milk.
Or farms crops, cooks food and does all the other crazy stuff we do, we dont actually need to do or have all these things..but if we didn't we would still be ape like creature living in the jungle.
Humans are humans and have the brains we have because we have learnt to adapt and use our environment to our advantage as best as possible, including domesticating animals and getting the advantage of easy and quick access to calcium and other vitamins etc from their milk.
Yeah today it's not as much as an advantage as we have so much access and knowledge to all kinds of nuts and vegetables etc that are also decent sources of things like calcium from different climates (areas of the world) that many of our ancestors didn't have, but domestication of animals and using their milk etc was still an important part of human development to what and who we are today.
Indo dreaming- my point was simply drinking the milk of another animal just isn't natural and not replicated in the rest of the animal kingdom nor is it a necessary source of calcium etc that the dairy industry have so cleverly convinced much of the population into believing. If people want to drink milk/cheese etc that's fine but to argue it's somehow an essential part of our diet simply isn't true -there's plenty of plant-based sources of calcium etc which are more readily absorbed by the body.
It might not be "natural" but 10,000 years of natural selection has provided most of us with the ability to retain lactase production into adulthood. When it comes to diet there is no one size fits all solution, so being dogmatic about it beyond a few broad generalisations is not justified.
Apparently humans have been drinking camels milk for thousands of years. Maybe I'm just biased or lucky but I love my.....for want of a better term, "tittie juice" aka cow's milk.
Nothing like a tall, icy cold glass of camels milk with a heaped tablespoon of Milo.
Ha Zen, for $15 a litre I wouldn't know :)
mattmac - as a qualified health practitioner with more than 30 years of practice, I totally refute your claims about availability of all nutrients via plant based diets. I agree wholeheartedly with indos' idea about evolutionary biology. I have noted veganism to be on the rise amongst teenagers as a kind of social media driven fad, and they are not supplied with / cannot be bothered to do the research ( like you have) , therefore endangering their health. Kids /Teens also have the idea that supplementation with pills / potions will alleviate any deficiencies (Not so , need blood tests to check this). Also there is ample precedent in nature for animals consuming other animals' milk / eggs.
Also from a health point of view - Westerners eat way more meat than they should. We need to think about how much we would eat if we had to catch & kill it ourselves - probably a lot less than if we pick it out of the fridge case at xyz supermarket!.
I don't care how many years you've been a health practitioner -there's nothing wrong with a purely plant-based diet and did acknowledge there's a lot of unhealthy vegans basically because they're eating crap/junk food most of the time -if you eat a well-balanced plant based diet you shouldn't suffer nutritional deficiencies except possibly for B12 which can be checked with regular blood tests and boosted if need be. BTW would be interested to know what other animal drinks another animals milk? Not that it's the most important argument for becoming vegan as just the ethical/environmental impacts a good enough reason but each to their own - I don't go around preaching to people that choose to eat meat or dairy etc its just my personal choice.
Historically those who are vegan or vegetarian are generally quite healthy, not so much because they cut meat from their diet's but more so because they are really focussed on health and what they put in there bodies. (opposed to most people who just eat whatever and rarely think about their health)
But there does seems to be a trend for people in particular younger people to go vegan for other types of reasons like environmental or just a perception of coolness.
I wonder if there has been studies on this new type of veganism?
Surely there must be a lot of the fade type vegans that aren't healthy or even seeing negative effects, as im sure many are just cutting meat and meat products from their diets but not replacing the vitamins and nutrients etc that they are losing.
I've seen some of my teenage daughters friends like that : turn vegan and get really unhealthy because it takes much more focus to maintain minerals, micro-nutrients and amino-acid, fatty acid, Vitb12 levels in growing bodies.
Easy if you just use a little bit of animal protein like Indian Vegetarians but if strictly vegan you can really fuck up growing bodies.
The rise of veganism is not a social media driven fad with the participants being blind to the facts.
These kids are streets ahead of their gen x parents with nutritional information awareness, at the same age, and simply have the balls to do something about our current climate crisis. Let’s not forget that they have grown up in an era where they are being taught if we don’t actually make change, then their planet, and future are cooked.
All credit to them. Talk is cheap in my book.
Some of them know what they are doing, some don't.
I've seen both.
I've seen 15 years old become vegan overnight and 6-12months later their health is wrecked because they haven't figured out minerals and nutrients are not as bio-available in plants compared to animal sources and they need to be more careful, much more careful about how they obtain nutrition.
Also seen kids, mostly with vegan parents, who are much more knowledgeable and have it totally sussed.
As to whether they are actually making positive differences in terms of carbon footprints and ecological impact, thats a different story.
It's clearly being driven by social media though.
It’s not going to be driven by the wireless or the newspapers
The problem we are facing isn’t whether people are going to become vegans or not it’s how we create sustainable farming solutions to feed a growing population. Yes being a vegan does lower your impact on the environment yet for example a vegan who sources their produce from a big supermarket with conventional vegetables which they will struggle to gain the nutrients needed from the chemically pumped up vegetables. Then they will turn to supplements which could be sourced from overseas adding food miles and not to mention the growing market of soy proteins which are wrapped in plastic, shipped to Australia and contributing to the deforestation of the most important rainforest on earth. On the other hand a person who eats meat and vegetables sourced from a local organic farm with an integrated natural farming system is doing better for the environment. We have created such a problem with the growth of domesticated animals that we now can’t simply stop eating meat and ignore them we have to integrate them into our farming systems. But man it’s exciting to be in the farming industry with so many natural systems being created and getting closer and closer to being able to mimic nature and create a truely closed loop large scale poly-cultural system it’s only a matter of time. If you really care about what your putting into your body get down to your local farmers market and talk to the farmer and find out how he grows his food. Small scale market farms will save the world.
totally agree Matilda.
That’s just comparing apples with oranges. If you compare locally sourced plants with locally sourced meats, or imported plants with imported meat, then plants win every time. Got some lovely beef wrapped in plastic fresh from brasil at home if you wanna come over for a bbq. Also explain to me in real world solution terms how all of Sydney are going to source from their local farmers markets. How about Singapore. The world still perils with your plan unfortunately. Meanwhile, the young vegans are out there supporting locally sourced food as best they can and actually getting on with fixing the planet we fucked. Some food transportation has to exist, it is what it is. Glad you recognise that veganism lowers the impact on the environment. Totally agree with the globalisation comment as well, we need to minimise imports and exports and eat seasonally. The soya bean reference that keeps coming up is also an interesting one. Not just because of the why that example, but also because the majority of its production world wide is for livestock anyway. I just want the best solution, not the one that suits my agenda.
Shoredump, please do us a favour and not introduce realty into Blindboy’s fantastical paradise as prescribed by Walt Disney.
According to Laurie, we will all be able to procreate like mad fuckers and live in our South coast duplex’s and eat Industrial farmed meat no worries, cause it’s all Trump’s fault and there’s no limitations to the amount of people that a thin soiled , escarpment bound agricultural regime of unpredictable water sources can sustain.
It’s like the loaves and the fishes .....it’s faith based !
If we can ( shoddily) build it , they will come !
Will life be better with more and more people ?
Who cares ?! What a stupid question !
They’re coming and they don’t care for your culture and pull your head in you racist !
Shut up and drink recycled shit so we can fit in more misogynistic , acid throwing rapists from......
Mate you have really lost touch with reality this time. Are you so pathetic that you have nothing better to do than troll me with opinions I have never expressed?