What's what?

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 11:54am

Nice one Shats, sounds like it was written by TT but funny.

1173

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 3:30pm

Good stuff, SB. Frankie Boyle's political writing has been better than his stand-up and assorted TV comedy appearances for a wee while now.

"I've sensed a certain anti-democratic air in the media since Brexit, and maybe some of this has found its way into the Labour debate. Perhaps the parliamentary party are best placed to choose leaders after all, has been the response of commentators who secretly want to scream for quite a long time about why any decision should depend on the opinions of people who live in Sunderland. Labour have been attacked for failing to hold power to account, but there was a time when the media saw that as its own job too. If only half the horror at being plunged into the unknown of Brexit had been reserved for the grim certainties of this May government. The man who destroyed a lot of lives imposing an austerity that actually increased debt got sacked and did a runner out of the back door, while the press ran pieces on May's first speech (about, eh, social justice…) that were little more than PR. Maybe we need to be a bit more generous about the stated intentions of voters and a bit more sceptical about those of politicians."

The Guardian has changed too, I think. Absolutely anti-Corbyn. Tried to ignore Sanders as long as possible, whilst being super pro-Hillary. And here, with Katherine Murphy and Lenore Taylor at the political helm? Well, in the great electoral editorial endorsement stakes, they abstained (all other newspapers in this country, bar one, endorsed the LNP).

Yep, Batfink, regarding us, that Donald Horne quote comes to mind again. Don't tell Blowie, but.

As has been said somewhere before, let's see how the 'lucky country' shapes up when the luck runs out...and the LNP are in charge!

Shiver.

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 12:37pm

Trump's missus, Melania.

It definitely wasn't just the speech!

Get some yucks, Zen?

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 12:39pm

That time for sure.

I stand corrected:)

1173

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 1:16pm

There is much said about left, right, down, up, Tory, Neo, Turnball, Shorty, Trump, Hillary, Brexit, Turkey, media and all said with high conviction and expertise.
Besides jumping into a voting booth every few years, how many out there actually get involved politics, to the degree of party membership, talking to politicians, operating phones, running surveys ?

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
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Shatner'sBassoon commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 3:31pm

Got a message from the States the other day (it was in relation to Sanders and the disappointment of his endorsement of Clinton, and how his supporters treat the upcoming election):

"Liberals [small 'l] obsess about elections and the personalities of politicians, whereas Leftists know that elections are just one tool (and not the most important one), and that politicians are tools. If you want integrity, organize in your community and support others doing so."

We have compulsory voting here so it's a bit different, but the sentiment is the same. I would wager that all of us on here have been, and still are, involved in 'politics'. Be it small 'p', or large 'P', or even party politics specifically.

The involvement may be small, large, organised, or not...collective as well as individual. Hell, even commenting on these threads is 'political' involvement in the public conversation. All worthy.

Engagement is good. The more informed, the better. No?

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
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Shatner'sBassoon commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 3:33pm

Mad Turkey, funny shit. If only Melania was a "low talker"! And don't mention The Donald's hands (same episode)!

Is Trump the "master of his own domain'?

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 4:11pm

My question is If Trump becomes President and starts winding back their alliance obligations, as he has said he will do, can Australia finally tell the yanks to close down their military bases on Australian soil or do I still have to have Plan B up my sleeve?

Plan B .... move to NZ where they have gay marriage, a price on carbon, some of the friendliest people on the planet, uncrowded waves and mountains ..... and and they told the yanks to fuck off with their nuclear ships decades ago. Such a tiny nation punching well above its weight when it comes to the values that count.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 4:47pm

If Trump is elected the dead will rise from their graves, take a look around and jump straight back in.

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 5:16pm

AND THUS SPAKE TRUMP!

"Trump said his business experience had given him the skills to fix a rigged country. “Nobody knows the system better than me,” he shrugged with smirk. “Which is why I alone can fix it.”

And he painted a bleak view of the US economy, promising “Americanism not globalism” and seeking to convert Democratic-leaning Bernie Sanders supporters with his opposition to free trade deals.

“I have seen first hand how the system is rigged against our citizens, just like it was rigged against Bernie Sanders – he never had a chance,” said Trump. “But his supporters will join our movement, because we will fix his biggest issue: trade deals that strip our country of its jobs and strip the wealth of country.”

The Republican nominee echoed Clinton’s former Democratic challenger by promising to create millions of new jobs by building “the roads, highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, and the railways of tomorrow”.

He also pointed out that Sanders had questioned Clinton’s foreign policy judgment and expressed sympathy with him over Democratic electoral rules said to favour its establishment, much as Trump struggled against the party leadership in the Republican primary."

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 6:22pm

"What's a hissy fit, Doggo? Is that like wind or worse?"
Pleae, Stan.... Fake naivety is sooooooo 2009.....

Anyhoooo, yeah..... Trump........ I just watched his speech......... Whooooah...... I suppose if I brought up Hitler, there's be screams of Godwins Law.......

And in other news, note the direct answer of yes..... No British leader has ever done that.... Previous leaders have been asked, and have always been tactful...... She shows no emotion for the hypothetical 100 000, and instead goes for the throat...... Imagine her and Donald......

Sheepdog

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
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Shatner'sBassoon commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 6:43pm

From my Frankie Boyle post above:

"The spirit of the times was perhaps best captured when Owen Smith [fellow Tory...though red!] launched his candidacy by going on Andrew Marr to announce that he would be happy to instigate a nuclear holocaust, as Marr prepared to throw over to a country trio called Applewood Road."

Oh dear.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 9:03pm

Nuremberg comes to Cleveland.

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Friday, 22 Jul 2016 at 10:20pm

Bonzo goes to Bitburg

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Saturday, 23 Jul 2016 at 9:05am

No need to go to Cleveland. We had a bit this at Prot Melbourne.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/friends-of-...

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Saturday, 23 Jul 2016 at 9:29am

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Saturday, 23 Jul 2016 at 3:55pm

Ahhh Tony barber come on down!!!!!!! Ohhh. hang on.... that's the price is right lol...

Here's one right back at ya.....

"Liberal Party backbencher Ann Sudmalis, who reportedly boasted she won a polling booth because a supporter removed opposing signs, has backed away from confirming the allegation."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-19/poster-tampering-investigation-und...

Sheepdog

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 9:31am

I know it seems this Munich gunman was more just a looney more than religion based terrorist, but it is interesting that the shooting came close to happening in McDonalds, apparently he started opening fire outside Maccas after luring victims with Maccas food.

Im personally surprised Islam based terrorism (that among other things generally hates and despises the West) hasn't used or encouraged lone wolf gun or bomb attacks in McDonalds outlets.

Why???

Because McDonalds is one of the biggest symbols of the west and it's dominance on the world, go anywhere in the world and you will find a Maccas.

Imagine if there was a string of attacks located in busy McDonald outlets around the world, not only would they achieve their goal of killing innocent people but they would also spark fear into everyone worldwide about eating in McDonalds hurting McDonalds big time, i know even i would probably opt for drive through rather than eat inn.

Anyway just a weird random thought, but still surprissed it hasn't happen yet.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

tonybarber's picture
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tonybarber commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 9:59am

ID, Latest I heard was that the Munich shooter was following the Norway massacre ? Go figure.

SD... Pulling signs down is a Bit different to trying run over people.

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 10:13am

batfink's picture
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batfink commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 11:26am

Floyd said "Plan B .... move to NZ where they have gay marriage, a price on carbon, some of the friendliest people on the planet, uncrowded waves and mountains ..... and and they told the yanks to fuck off with their nuclear ships decades ago. Such a tiny nation punching well above its weight when it comes to the values that count."

I've often thought about that Floyd. When the world blows itself to smithereens an acre or two on the north island, a vegie patch, some fruit trees, fishing etc, you could almost survive the holocaust. May yet do it.

Also considering doing same for somewhere up or down the coast. Seriously, for the first time since my teen years in the 70's, where we mostly grew up with an underlying sense that the world may blow itself up, I'm starting to think that it may all hit the fan. Long term planning to have somewhere for the kids to come in the future if food, water and basics are suddenly not so available. I'm not so much expecting a nuclear war as much as some sort of economic armageddon, especially one that might blow up my superannuation.

May even knock out one of my front teeth, buy a fucking big rifle and a banjo, and sit out on the porch with both of them, deliverance style.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 1:36pm

Already doing it Batfink.

Access to quality food and fresh water will be for the wealthy - even more so than now .

Its not exactly a stunning revelation to say that access to water is going to be a massive deal in the not too distant future.

There is some good land available not too far from decent surf in Australia still at an acceptable price , we are very lucky.

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floyd commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 2:59pm

tend to agree with you batfink about an economic meltdown; just like climate change just how many respected international economists have to tell Australia about the massive housing bubble we have ((look at the historical data to see what has happened since Howard 1/2ed the CGT on speculative negative gearing and also allowed self managed super funds to borrow money for investment (speculation) purposes)) before government here implements measures to temper housing investment and prices. Its gunna be very nasty when that bubble bursts and all those punters with interest only loans (10% of all mortgages now) will be the first to lose the lot. What would the Australian economy look like if 200,000 mortgagees defaulted all at once?

......... although could you imagine a President Trump provoking China by sailing a fleet of warships through the South China sea? scary stuff that ........ no Kennedy with the Cuban missile crisis.

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happyasS commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 5:18pm

yep just look at the china food dramas past few years.....aussies shipping baby formula @ $80 a can and more & still doing it today even when the issues there have passed. clearly there are enough folk there who can afford it when its quality that matters. and when china controls Australian farming we, Australias 23 million, will be competing on price with all the chinese new rich for our own quality food.

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Blowin commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 5:49pm

Whilst I agree with Pilgers Anti Americanism, I don't believe that it's the good cop / bad cop deal with the USA and China that he'd have us believe.

China is at least as bad, it's just yet to spread its wings properly.

China's territorial grab in the South China Sea is war provoking stuff.

Just as Australia's grab in the Timor sea would have been if the power balance wasnt so asymmetrical .

The SCS deal would also be asymmetrical , rather than the number of territorially disputing opposing parties and the backing of the international trade fleet and those that wish to limit China's play against their hegemonic ownership of world power.

Better the devil you know I reckon.

Don't EVER think that China is a beneficial alternative to US supremacy .

This involves the Chinese diaspora that may be seen as a Trojan horse in the future.

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Blowin commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 5:57pm

Happyass - Preping is bad , right ?

But insurance is good and precautions are logical, correct ?

Get some while you can.

I've got 25 acres of former banana plantation converted from monoculture to mixed fruit orchard / regenerated native bush land .

At least 100 fruit, varieties a couple of dams - one turkey, one runoff - and self proficient in water. Looking to buy the property next door that contains a natural spring.

Got a shack I can - and have - lived in without power in total comfort.

Not that expensive to indulge yourself in this fashion if you're willing to head 15 minutes from the coast .

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Blowin commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 6:00pm

Just finished Economix - can't speak highly enough about it.

Ties in so many threads of history, ideology, economic theory and the state of the planet.

Should be recommended reading in schools - like that would ever happen in the current political climate.

Anyone that's read it - did it change or reinforce your thinking ?

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Blowin commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 6:36pm

Part C. XXXXX Brings Water Woes Around the World

If XXXXXX's contract in Iraq is extended to include "distribution of water," just as Halliburton's was for oil, the people of Iraq have much to fear. XXXXXX is one of the top-ten water privatization firms in the world. After privatizing the water system in Cochabamba, Bolivia, a subsidiary of XXXXXX made water so expensive that many were forced to do without. The government met public protests with deadly police force. XXXXX waited. Finally, the Bolivian government canceled XXXXXXX's contract. The company responded with a $25 million lawsuit for lost profits. This is but one such case study provided in this report that draws on community struggles against XXXXXXX from San Francisco, California to Sophia, Bulgaria. Each case demonstrates XXXXXXX 's extreme disregard for the rights of its workers and the rights of communities to have access to affordable water.

Privatisation of water - it was ILLEGAL to catch rain water in this instance in Bolivia.

Then the Bolivians had to oppose deadly force from their own government ( under the employ of XXXXXXX ) to reclaim their water rights.

Could never happen here though......?

Gotta love the potential for the use of the golden ISDS clause in an instance such as this one.....as happened in Bolivia.

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stunet commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 7:56pm

Economix: Reinforced it.

Had always kinda known what was happening but it explained the why. Why the Third World will never be as prosperous as the First World. Why no-one gets out of debt to the IMF and World Bank. Why the IMF and World Bank insist on structural changes before giving loans. Why Bush went to war with Iraq.

However, there's subtlety within the 'why'. Did Milton Friedman and the neoliberals truly believe in free market ideology, like as an academic theory, or was their plan nefarious from the beginning? I tend to think the former, that they really thought they'd improve the state of the world through their neolib changes, however after 50 years of abject failure they still persist. Can they still believe in it?

Of course big business will keep believing in it because they're profiting so handsomely, but the economists? The theorists...? Surely not.

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Blowin commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 8:44pm

I reckon the academics might have believed it and their barrow was probably cherry picked and pushed hard by the vested interests.

They might have lost a few battles since the New Deal but the war was ongoing.

Big business waiting and strategising , plotting and moving their pieces around the board till the time was ripe.

It just strikes me as odd that history can be repeated so blindly .

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blindboy commented Sunday, 24 Jul 2016 at 8:51pm

A slightly different perspective on this Stu is the distinction between "strong links" and "weak links". Virtually all politicians and professional economists arise from elite groups in society. Their training and life experience tends to make them believe in top down solutions "strong links". If you get the right people and the right policies at the top, problems will be solved.
The reality is that most social and economic problems arise because of "weak links". Malcolm Gladwell applies this to education in the US where through generous donations the top universities have obscene amounts of money while the rest struggle to meet the needs of their students. The belief is that a few super-talents are what is needed when the reality is that using that money to fund better education across the board would improve social and economic problems much more effectively.
In terms of the neolibs the problem is that while it has been a catastrophic social and economic failure, their friends and families, have done well. In their world it has been a success and its obvious failings are down to the moral failings of the lower classes. The only possibility would be for it to be replaced by a new equally ineffective top down system that kept wealth and power in the hands of the same elite.

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Island Bay commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 6:41am

Re your Plan B: come on over; we need thinking people badly these days. NZ, too, is ruled by blatantly lying swine, and most of the population seem quite happy being lied to and exploited.

Thank you SB for that Frankie Boyle article. Funny and scary.

chin's picture
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chin commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 10:12am

Maybe this is the first step, where rural landowners close to Adelaide are being charged rates for water they have sitting in small dams on private property, filled by run-off from that property.
That was supposed to be a reply to Blowin's post, never mind.

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stunet commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 12:25pm

History repeating, as written by an archaeologist:

"Again, for a historian it [WW 2] was quite predictable. Lead people to feel they have lost control of their country and destiny, people look for scapegoats, a charismatic leader captures the popular mood, and singles out that scapegoat. He talks in rhetoric that has no detail, and drums up anger and hatred. Soon the masses start to move as one, without any logic driving their actions, and the whole becomes unstoppable."

'History tells us what will happen next with Brexit & Trump'

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nickcarroll commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 1:54pm

Ha ha stu, I think the neoliberal economists would say "well it's never really been done right"

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stunet commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 2:24pm

Hope springs eternal, eh? Good on those neolibs then, never perturbed by any of their monumental fuck ups. They can always do better next time.

That's the spirit, lads.

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Blowin commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 4:56pm

Did you read the comments after that article Stu ?

I had to burrow a little deeper to find the echo chamber I was looking for , but there it was !

Diminished his arguments beautifully , I thought.

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tonybarber commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 8:50pm

Stu, are you suggesting the article (you provided above) is connected to neoliberalism ? Maybe a study of human sociology would be more relevant.

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stunet commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 9:10pm

No. Nothing really to do with neoliberalism, but hey, this is the What's What thread and we can talk about more than one thing at time cant we? What?

Yeah Blowin, old mate archaeologist got the air let out of his tyres pretty damn quick. He took a few liberties with his Brexit diagnosis, damn thing is way more complex than he considers, and he's chucked just a wee bit of assumption in the mix.

OK, yeah, fucker is projecting.

But still, things are shifting, old sentiments don't seem so red hot any more, and it's not just here, or just in the US, or just Pomgolia. The fact it's happening all over is reason enough to link recent events and study them.

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Blowin commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 10:26pm

His reasoning might be off, doesn't mean the predicted outcome will be.

Whoa ......I just went full melodrama didn't I ?

Never go full melodrama.

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Sheepdog commented Monday, 25 Jul 2016 at 10:39pm

4 corners just blew my fucking mind....... And Triggs on Q & A nailed it...... Shame, Australia... Shame.....

Sheepdog

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 7:34am

.

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thermalben commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 8:42am

I felt sick to my stomach watching that 4 Corners investigation. The CCTV (and handycam!) footage was harrowing.

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tonybarber commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 9:10am

Agree but Triggs is not the one to handle this and she won't. There is a specific rights commissioner to handle this. Pat Dodson had a good response to this.

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stunet commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 9:37am

Why not Triggs, TB?

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 10:03am

I see Turnbull has announced a Royal Commission, good on him.

Stu, good question about Triggs, I think TB would, in part, have been referring to how she ruffled the feathers of the Abbott government so often about our other shame ... offshore detention. Lets all remember the pressure Triggs was put under by Abbott and his ministers when it suited their political purpose.

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tonybarber commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 10:46am

Stu, re Triggs. Just have a look at what she has done or not done over the last five years. The QUT affair is a classic example of her incompetence and (God forbid) her bias.

floyd's picture
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floyd commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 10:59am

In neo-con land the world is full of inconvenient truths!

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stunet commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 11:09am

Oh c'mon TB. How many ways can you say witch hunt?

The Abbott govt didn't like the timing of her disclosures, conveniently ignoring she also implicated Labor. In fact it wasn't just 'timing', Abbott was following the IPA's request to abolish the Human Rights Commission, much as he met many other IPA requests: destroy Carbon Tax, Dept of Climate Change, renewable energy target etc etc

And so the Murdoch attack hounds turned it into a 'scandal' to undermine her.

It's muck-raking by numbers and I'm surprised you fell for it.

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talkingturkey commented Tuesday, 26 Jul 2016 at 12:01pm

"It's muck-raking by numbers and I'm surprised you fell for it."

You're talking 'bout Tory Barber, yeah? Hmmmm, yes, surprising (rolls eyes into back of skull)

He's got a hard-on for Triggs like Doggo has for Flannery and Shorten. I don't mean that literally. I think.

4 corners was shocking, I guess. Maybe after reading Economix, we should next all have a read of McGahan's The White Earth?

Burn, baby, burn!

Speakin' of which...meanwhile in America...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/5-reasons-why-trump-will-_b_...

BRING IT ON!

Who's with me?