What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

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sypkan commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 10:00am

I thought I'd convinced myself conspiracy theorists are froot loops

but then again...."just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not following you"

even if this article is a load of crap, the question remains, why are the Rockefellers and Rothschilds NOT on the forbes richest people list?

do you know more than you're letting on blowin?

it appears kelly slater might, he almost went there in that interview that everyone wrote off as pathetic

http://weshapelife.org/2016/03/09/shocking-revelation-rothschilds-rockef...

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 11:45am

How the various age groups voted in Brexit:

screen_shot_2016-06-28_at_11.40.18_am.png

And how likely they were to even cast a vote:

screen_shot_2016-06-28_at_11.44.36_am.png

Youth ain't the only thing wasted on the young.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 1:40pm

Yep, 64% of 18 to 24 yo couldn't even be bothered voting........ There is about 6 million 18 to 24 yo's in the UK..... So roughly 3.9 million "young people" didn't vote....... At a remain voting rate of 64%, that's 2500000 votes (2 million five hundred thousand) that the remain camp lost due to youthful apathy..... The final "leave" vote was 17 410 742........... The remain vote was 16 141 241......
16 141 241 + 2 500 000 = 18 641 241....... Heaps of wriggle room there.........

Old people always vote...... And the pensioners of England have been hit hard in recent years....

Anyhooooooo, here's some poor diddums........ My heart bleeds.......

http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/the-brexit-vote-has-alr...

Sheepdog

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Shatner'sBassoon commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 4:40pm
upnorth's picture
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upnorth commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 7:18pm

I haven't read all of the posts about Brexit so apologies if I'm repeating what has already been said, from the few I read it seems control of immigration is being cited as the driving force for the leave result. It's certainly a factor but is really being overplayed by left leaning media like the BBC and the Guardian. For the record I voted leave and am naturally over the fucking moon to be out of Europe, and it will go ahead. For me and those I know who also voted leave (friends and family are about a 50/50 split) the driving force behind our decision was a desire to regain control over trade and legislation. We are a small island nation built on trade but at the moment we can't negotiate a deal to buy tomatoes from say Australia because Spanish tomato growers would veto the deal for fear of competiton, that just not right. The Eurozone has the only economy in the world which is shrinking why would we want to to be tied to it? There are 1000's of decisions made in Brussels each year which we must abide by from the shape of a carrot to the weight of bog roll, the beuarocracy and enforcement of guidelines is crippling for small and medium sized business. Perversely big business love it, they have the man power and time to deal with all of the rules which come out of Brussles and they know by encouraging it they make it harder for small competitors and the entrepreneur, that's partly why so many business leaders have been backing remain. They tried to scare us by saying prices would go up as wages would rise, isn't that a good thing? So much of what goes on in the EU us farcical, the common agricultural policy which has the same guidelines for farmers in Greece as for farmers in Scotland, the common fisheries policy which allows French, Spanish and Italian trawlers a quota in UK waters, we get to fish the Med of course but there's fuck all there and our markets are primarily cod and haddock. As result our fishing fleet has dwindled in the past 20 years meaning hundreds of towns built on fishing have suffered. It would be like unelected legislators in Jakarta ruling that Australia couldn't trade with Germany because Fiji said so. We joined the EU to improve trade which was fine but since then it has morphed into a beast which impacts every aspect of our lives and we don't have any say. Faced with Brexit Cameron negotiated the very best deal he could and it was a joke, Eurocrats who have invested their lives into the EU project cannot bare the thought of a member state having any independence and now one has they are understandably gutted. I'd be gutted if we had voted to remain. There was an element of tactical voting involved of course. Cameron knew if he lost he was gone, so did the electorate. The SNP knew that they would have a good chance of a second referendum on independence if Scotland voted remain at odds with England, so did English voters but we still voted leave. The truth is most people are sick of listening to the SNP whinge, if they want out then fuck off. For many leavers this vote was more about a shake up of everything we know than just the EU, changing the status quo from top to bottom, given the scaremongering that went before I'm so glad we had the balls to do it. The markets will settle down in a few weeks, we might take a couple of years to right ourselves and a couple more to get back on track but it'll be worth it.

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 8:14pm

Well done and well said Upnorth.

Now that he's mentioned the crux of the issue, everyone should brush up on Agenda 21.

It's already happening to us .

World socialism ( read as fascism from unelected beaurocrats ) heavily spiced with oppressive economic global colonisation by transnational corporations.

Yeewwww.

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stunet commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 8:27pm

"Well done and well said Upnorth."

Except for the lack of paragraphs. You know how I feel about paragraphs.

Cheers Upnorth. Good to get a report from on the ground, so to speak.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 8:37pm

upnorth I am sure there is a very significant amount of truth in what you say. What most of us are skeptical about is the ability of the U.K on its own to do any better for those disadvantaged by change. As you admit at the end, the vote was " more about a shake up of everything we know than just the EU" . Change for change's sake is a desperate ploy. If things are as bad as you say then maybe it is worth the chance, but the manner in which it has been taken seems unnecessarily reckless. Certainly you have been badly let down by the politicians on both sides who have clearly failed to form a plan of how to carry out this change.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 8:45pm

Oh and I just came across this. I don't know how much credibility to give it.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-wa...

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 8:54pm

Blind boy , don't fear , England will still be getting royally shafted by the lower wages / ceaseless flooding of the labour market with immigration that is also designed to divide and conquer the working class along cultural lines.

Inequality will continue on its steady upward spiral , only at least the Poms won't have the empire building Beaurofascists colluding with the corporations to rape the nation and divide the spoils with power and profit each going to the respective master.

Can't believe I actually typed the word Beaurofascist ....what am I fucking 15 years old again ?

Doesn't mean it's not correct though.

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 8:57pm

Just read that link Blindboy.

England is officially up shit creek.

I'd be surprised if they do leave to be honest, a lot of vested interests want to maintain the status quo.

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upnorth commented Tuesday, 28 Jun 2016 at 10:00pm

I'm partial to a paragraph as well but was under pressure to grout the bathroom tiles and the extra nanoseconds were vital. Blindoy Brexit does feel a bit reckless and for both sides there was an element of 'oh shit' when the result was announced but what are the other options? Various groups have pushed for change to our relationship with Brussels for years and have basically been ignored. Cameron had to promise a referendum to become PM so he had every opportunity to act on the problems which affect people but he hasn't wanted or been able to. There's obvious risk but also great opportunity, we can't currently trade freely with the largest markets in the world which as the worlds 5th largest economy is ludicrous but that will change. For the EU this is probably the beginning of the end, partly why Europhiles fought tooth and nail to keep us there, Denmark are keen to leave as is Holland, many people recognise that it just isn't working particularly if you are unlucky enough to have the euro.
The truth is nobody knows what will happen so all of the predictions of it actually being worse for fishermen or the poor or people who own cats are pure guesswork and it's been going on for months. The trouble is that the remain campaign scared the shit out of so many people with propaganda and they thought that seeing as the vote would go their way it would all be forgotten about. Now it hasn't people are genuinely scared and papers like the Guardian are revelling in the doom and gloom because they are bitter about the result.
What makes you think we wont't leave Blowin? There are a lot of vested interests who wanted to remain and they tried their best but the vote is done. Cameron ruled out a second referendum today and other than the parts of the media still in denial there is no mention of anything but the deal being done bar the formalities.

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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 1:14pm

An act of "terror" here in Australia!!! Not really making much of a splash in the news is it...... Imagine if it was outside a christian church with pro isis grafitti..... Holy shit you wouldn't here the end of it....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-29/suspected-fire-bomb-attack-at-pert...

Sheepdog

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 1:45pm

Inetresting that a lot of financial business's and manufacturing , are now planning to move out of Britain , the Scotish and Irish want to stay , as do 65% of people under 30?

The French are so happy to be ggeting all the business from the Not UK!

x

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Shatner'sBassoon commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 4:25pm

A post on here from the 28th April. After Brexit, and with our own election coming up, relevant??

"It is high time that Australia has an election based on class, because for the last forty years worldwide the neoliberal project has been shifting wealth from below to above, disenfranchising middle and working class people alike, and virtually winning the class war for the unnaturally wealthy.

Turnbull & Co want to create a little plutocratic fiefdom at the end of the world (ringed by submarines and numerous on water naval vessels) while Labor would like to see Australia’s egalitarian, multicultural nature preserved and expanded.

From Tony Abbott (with a scowling face), Malcolm Turnbull (with a smiling face) took over the Coalition government’s assault on the institutions of society that have mitigated against unfairness and economic inequality - like public health, public education, including needs based education, fair compensation and conditions in the workplace, and the social safety net, including disability support.

On Insiders a couple of weeks ago, Mark Reilly dubbed the next poll a fight between the “top hats” and the “hard hats”. (Turnbull immediately started running around in high viz and a hard hat.)

Bill Shorten’s call for a Royal Commission into banks will answer the question of whether heads in top hats will roll or not – if the ALP get up, that is.

Ian Narev , CEO of the CBA, has come out blaming the victims of the banking scandals – calling them “unreasonable” - in a shocking pronouncement attempting to direct attention away from the calls for a Royal Commission that clearly demonstrates the toxic culture that a RC would target, and seek to reform.

The Prime Minister has resorted to the old “politics of envy” trope to attack Labor’s election policy to halve the tax break on capitol gains, even as Shorten fired back that it’s not about envy , but fairness (since the well-off to pay less tax than the less-well-off) saying teachers and nurses can’t reduce the tax they pay from their salaries like that.

(It’s also about removing the double whammy of negative gearing and capitol gains from real estate speculators to make housing more affordable.)

At the foundation, the difference between the government and the opposition is whether the national interest is paramount or the special interests. Labor’s newly named “people first” strategy has been framed specifically to target this difference.

No matter how many policies the government steals – perhaps on super and tobacco, for example - it still won't put the interests of people who need public services ahead of corporations that are focused on profit, and avoiding their responsibility to pay fair tax on them.

It has become increasingly clear to an ever enlarging portion of the electorate that were wealthy individuals and multi-national corporations to be taxed commensurately with everyone else that there would likely be adequate revenue to avoid cuts, austerity, and budget “savings”, so that basic public services could be maintained, or even increased – without a lot of ersatz drama from a fast-talking Treasurer.

After thirty years of governments of both stripes advocating the neoliberal model of political economy, Labor now appears to have turned the corner in an attempt to get the settings right on capitalism. In truth, even when Labor was introducing free market reforms they still had a foundation of social justice behind their policy in the Accord when the social safety net was strengthened to compensate for wage restraint.

That tradition continues with the Gonski reforms and the NDIS, both of which the Coalition government appears to want to weaken or abandon.

The values-based policy and fairness test that Labor is planning to apply if elected is exactly what the economy needs, and what society needs, as well, to recover from the decades of free market based economic policy that has moved Australia in the direction of becoming a market society - where everything is for sale including the politicians, and the people are increasingly left to fend for themselves in a Darwinian free for all.

Labor will likely become known in future as the best economic managers because they put human beings back into the equation instead of turning them into another commodity like the the failing neoliberal model prescribes.

This election is about fairness. It’s about what sort of country its people want Australia to become.

In an attempt to deceive the public like Nixon did, Turnbull can make Checkers speeches till the cows come home, but his inability to identify with the concerns of everyday Australians nonetheless becomes more obvious by the day - at least to those who are paying attention.

You know, one of the things that outed the real Nixon was that he loved to hang out with criminals."

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tonybarber commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 5:36pm

Hmmm, might tell my mates they are going to become 'fiefs'. Not sure what century that came from.
Let's just Thompson to pay back the money for his underbelly pleasure.

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Shatner'sBassoon commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 5:51pm

Tony, is that it? Really?

Jeeeesus, you can't even get his name right, you fucking peanut.

Poor fella...my country.

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stickyson commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 6:09pm

Aah tried to post a link and failed Google " yes minister brexit "

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blindboy commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 6:17pm

Ha ha the Libs are so worried about Abbott losing Warringah they are not only posting every voter a letter from Turnbull, they are now calling with a recorded message from him.......if you are in the electorate let's do a Howard on the dickhead....anyone but Abbott!

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tonybarber commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 6:25pm

SB, yeah, we are still waiting at the HSU. Yeah, we did not even get peanuts.
As a paramedic , there are a lot of blokes spitting chips.

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floyd commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 6:54pm

My neighbour today told me all about Labor's lies ... unions, medicare, budgets blah blah.
He didn't think the Liberals lied at all.
God bless his little naive white socks.

Like my neighbour Tones you really ought to get your head out of your arse.

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Sheepdog commented Wednesday, 29 Jun 2016 at 7:01pm

BB writes ;
"Ha ha the Libs are so worried about Abbott losing Warringah they are not only posting every voter a letter from Turnbull, they are now calling with a recorded message from him"

Friends of mine in Port Macquarie are getting the same thing - letter from Mal... Each letter is personally addressed too - "Dear Macca"......
They're pretty worried old Bobby Oakshot is gonna nail it.....

Sheepdog

talkingturkey's picture
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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 12:20pm

Fuck, it's all happening!

"yeah, we are still waiting at the HSU. Yeah, we did not even get peanuts.
As a paramedic , there are a lot of blokes spitting chips"

Tony Barber's a paramedic??

Jeez, here I was comparing you in the past to Mick Malthouse, when in fact you're Nicolas Cage outta "Bringing Out the Dead"?!

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 3:37pm

looks like some at the guardian are waking up to what's what

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/29/the-liberal-left-i...

but it's going to take the world getting a lot uglier for the feminists to wake up. running next to it is the usual feminist clap trap about how wonderful a candidate clinton is. seriously how can they write that shit when this sparrow fellow has just pointed out Clinton's very dodgy neo con history without even mentioning 'her' wars. absolute blind faith from the feminists.

the biggest thing I take from this article though is how disgusting it is to over privatise some government services. some things the government just has to have control over - and prisons, child protection etc. are prime examples, probably medicare and job services too

the most stark australian example of this was on Q and A monday night when it was raised by that very switched on aboriginal woman that there are 150 NGOs in wilcannia, as she asked? what the hell are they doing?

while I'm morally opposed to privatisation of social services, I've accepted it, but what we have seen is the extreme neo-liberalisation of these services. some may think that's the same thing, but neo-liberalisation tends to break things down to individual causes and services, giving money here, money there, with different organizations covering different (very similar) sections. this compartmentalisation leads to very wasteful duplication, kind of ironic as it's supposed to be more efficent.

of more concern from my observations is the fact that the old adage of the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing comes into play. and even worse the poor clients have to go through introductions and explanations time and time again which disenfranchises the already disaffected even more.

it's a very cold hard detached, compartmentalised and inhuman way to deal with humans, when all the theory advocates taking a wholistic approach.

we've got it all so wrong. as the article suggests both sides eventually jumped on board with gusto. there probably was a moment in time where it was efficient but it quickly grows into an ugly self serving mammoth

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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 12:35pm

Sparrow makes some salient points as usual. But you've gotta be careful not to conflate the different experiences in different countries too much.

And again, I ask, where do Sanders and Corbyn fit in this painted scenario? And how is that 'push' reflected here?

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 2:48pm

Sorry missed that little post question turkmanistan (sorry again, but that's an underrated little piece of
gold from the sheepdog)

As I, and many have said, there is no 'push' in Australia, we're still cruising, thanks to the mining boom. We're literally about five years behind the effects of the neo liberal globalisation experiment. We are still loving the tax havens, barely interested in the Panama papers, the train rolls on. That's why shorten's little dismissal of the anti trade deals furore the other day was enough. Not one journalist followed it up, not even a confirmation. Meanwhile Howard liking Xenophon to Pauline Hanson was jumped on by all. Oh the irony, Howard equating Xenophon to Hanson.

You're right countries are different, our political disillusionment is about Rudd Gillard Rudd Abbott Abbott Abbott, he gets a special mention because he was so special. People can see what's coming, which creates a little unrest, but really we haven't got a clue how bad shit is in Detroit or northern England. There was research in the US that found something like 50 per cent of the population would have to sell something or seek credit to pay an unexpected $400 bill, imagine that? Australians haven't got a clue how bad things are.

Sanders and Corbyn are all over it, they can see the writing on the wall. Unfortunately the machine shut sanders down, just increasing trumps legitimacy, Clinton made a few concessionary statements and moved on. This will bite back ten fold, maybe not this election but the next.

Similar has happened with Corbyn, he got some real traction initially, the yooth and all that, but as soon as the realities of brexit appeared the party have lost their nerve. They freaked as soon their asset and stock wealth was threatened, and now they want him out. He was a half hearted defender of remain, his party knew it, and all was fine, until it looked like it might actually happen.

Isolationism and nationalism are ugly, but I believe they are totally overstated. Transporting oranges from the americas to oz just doesn't make sense, anybody can see that, especially when farmers are struggling. It's not about locking down borders and stopping trade, it's about finding a balance that makes sense. The blind faith in free markets doesn't work, neither will protectionism in the modern context. But we continue with our battle of ideologies.

It appears it's got to get more shit first, before we'll change. You won't like this turkeyman but blowin is right agenda 21 is a joke. It's selective globalisation for the elites while exploiting third world populations and environments. The only way we (the little people) fit in to this agenda is by sacrificing everything we have so chardonnay socialists and the rich right can have their little dream.

Bring on the shit I say, I'm tired of never ending war to protect my assets, it's all relative anyway, my piece of dirt is still worth the same in relation to your piece of dirt, it's just the Chinese and Russian mafia that are inflating the prices. And that's another hoax of globalisation, the questionable characters we allow in to maintain the growth

We've all been duped

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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 4:22pm

Jeezus. Blowhard. Y'know for being such an uber-Aussie patriot, he ain't half-keen on importing stupid Seppo nonsense?! No wonder he's voting Hanson. Maybe he should get off the turps and start his own Posse Comitatus or 'billy' tea party.

Mate, go to the actual source for Agenda 21. Have a read. Go to both sides of the commenting fence, and the centre (as you see 'em), read, compare. See who and what stacks up...for 'real'.

For mine, it ain't the Koch Brothers.

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 2:54pm

Sorry again, turkeyman but looking at blowin's 'list' I think blowin's billy party would be the best thing that could happen to oz politics

Totally agree on the Koch bros. pure evil

But the chardonnay socialists have lofty ideals that are stuck in a 1970's world view

It's time to reboot the settings

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Sheepdog commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 3:59pm

Sypo, I really don't know what drugs you are on..... But if you could mail some to me, that'd be great lol

Did anyone see lateline was having a "fun" application to be pm? I think it is still running..... You had to post in a handful of policies, and a 3 word slogan...... Did anyone take part?

Sheepdog

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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 4:29pm

It's been reported that 'someone' posted in as LEFTY LYNCH MOB. The policies: STOPPED THE BOATS. AXED THE TAX. LABOR IS SHIT. WE ARE BETTER. BECAUSE, BECAUSE, BECAUSE...

His last one:

I'LL BE BACK.

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Sheepdog commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 5:19pm

Sypo writes;
" There was research in the US that found something like 50 per cent of the population would have to sell something or seek credit to pay an unexpected $400 bill, imagine that? Australians haven't got a clue how bad things are."

Ummmm..... You do know how bad things are out there in the burbs yeah?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/one-million-aus...

Sheepdog

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happyasS commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 6:13pm

acos reports 13.9% in poverty.

ceda reports 4-6% in poverty.

why a three fold difference?

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 6:22pm

what's not to like?

ok, maybe a couple of doozeys, but on the whole a great place to start

Blowin wrote: Halt foreign ownership of real estate...all forms .
Limit population growth through restricted immigration .

Halt or extremely limit the use of imported labour in Australia .

Prioritise spending on Health, welfare , education.

Subsidise tertiary education.

Discontinue the privatisation of government functions - transport, ports, education, health and welfare.

Nationalised infrastructure spending that produces exportable products - Oil/ Gas , mining etc. Achieved through a commited and non politicised sovereign wealth fund that is accumulated as a result of an annual flat rate tax payable by every Australian citizen.

An Australian constitution guaranteeing freedom of access for individuals to natural resources eg fishing, hunting.

Complete transparency, limitation and curtailment of political donations / lobbying.

Political sphere should consist of - true democracy : continuous referendum style establishment of the desires of the Australian people. People often denigrate policies as being " populist " - isn't that the hallmark of democracy , to reflect the will of the majority ? Constitution / laws established through plebiscite .

Removal of the relevance of individual politicians from consideration - political parties should be faceless, though not unaccountable . Same as every other government department. Make people vote for policy, not projected personality. This could be achieved by a regularly scheduled release of each parties / independents stance on a range of issues displayed in a matrix format for the easy comparison / contrast with each other. Political sanctions as deterrence towards failure to follow the nature of the stated policies .

Dedicated sovereign partnerships with all approved foreign investment in Australia.

An opposition to the acceptance of free trade agreements particularly those containing an ISDS clause.

A focus on the unity of Australians - ie the sustenance of the common language .

Removal of dual citizenship options.

Tightening of tax loopholes for transnational companies . Limited deferral of tax obligations as a result of capital deduction.

Flat rate of tax commencing and ceasing at minimal and maximum earnings respectively for individuals.

Removal of state governments and bodies.

Foreign aid to be concentrated on directly neighbouring nationalities.

Increased antitrust legislation.

All the above is of course conditional on approval by the constant plebiscite process that I advocate.

How the tide of political corruption would be prevented from being spread from the individual power of the current politicians to the diluted, though accumulatory power of the plebiscite approach is beyond me.

Though you can guarantee that if there is political power it will be purchased by those with power , one way or another.

Australia should resist all efforts by non -representational ,transnational bodies to subvert the democratic prerogative of Its citizens as a primary concern .

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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 6:57pm

Right on. I can see how Hanson's One Nation fits the bill for Blowie.

(rolls eyes back in skull)

Which ones are the "doozeys" by the way, Syppo?

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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 6:52pm

Syppo, from that same thread convo, Andy M's prescriptions (it's what goaded Blowie to actually commit his efforts here):

"Blowin the way I see it, you have to identify what is not up to scratch with the current situation so you can have a conversation about it and hopefully come up with a solution or compromise that people can live with - I don't see this as denigrating the present situation.
Although I have concerns about the direction in which Australia is heading politically/socially/economically, I enjoy day to day. There's some poo on my proverbial glasses but I'm ok with the amount, there are a lot of things I get immense pleasure and enjoyment from such as a surf yesterday and seeing the birds in the forest today.
I'm not going to write a thesis on my political views but I'll put down a few points.
Something closer to real democracy, free of "donations" and string pulling by media monopolies, mining lobbies, real estate lobbies etc.

Recognition and dignity for minorities including Indigenous, gay, disabled and to an extent, women.

Recognition for the necessity of a sustainable future, taking into account population, resource use etc.

Stopping the politicisation of issues like asylum seekers/indigenous

Non-partisanship of the Federal Police, Border Force etc.

Transparent government with regard to asylum seeker boat arrivals, offshore detention, donations received, pork barrelling etc.

Scaling back of a materially aspirational society i.e. recognising the relationship between humans and the natural environment. None of this should interfere with sustainable farming, forestry and fishing.

Supporting capitalism, technological advances etc. but avoiding monopolies/duopolies because that's when things start to get ugly.

Supporting a social democracy where there is universal healthcare and education.

I could go on but there's a start.
Needless to say, neither side of politics gets my tick of approval. The LNP especially goes against everything I've said above and I see this as extremely dangerous for every reason."

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talkingturkey commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 6:57pm

Both sit well within the capitalist system. There's a world of theory and, yes! 'real world' examples out there that are more radical. Anarchism and the Zapatista movement spring to mind. The Kurds are trying out something different too as we speak.

The fact is, in realpolitik, the 'real world' as it stands in Australia now, who the fuck does/doesn't get your vote this Saturday?

What is the strategy?

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Sheepdog commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 8:02pm

Sypo...... Did you want me to pick that list apart? lol

Sheepdog

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sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 8:22pm

yeh good on andym for finally pinning him down, blowin had been lurking in the shadows for too long

I like both lists

I don't see anything I couldn't accept as a starting position (very di Natalie)

I think the problem is the left kind of argued a bit of socialism for a period, until the spoils of neo liberalism and a booming world economy made that argument unconscionable, then, as pilger put it, we indulged in a generation of identity politics, all while the right was running wild.

The left should have had some better offer by now, but all we've got is unbridled capitalism versus socialism, we need a new way, not a bloody third way!

Re Anarchism etc. Isn't there some assumed development?

Like, feudalism, capitalism, socialism, anarchy or something?
With arguments being about the transitions and smoothness?

I think at the moment we're at one of those transitions, how long it will last and how smooth it will be no one knows

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 8:25pm

Above is assuming anarchy is a good position, where people have developed enough to live without rules and overlords

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 9:00pm

So.. PM Blowin and Tresurer Sypo have;

"Halt foreign ownership of real estate...all forms ."

Well...... Pop goes the bubble........ Current overseas owners trip over themselves to unload their properties before the rules come in..... Mortgage owners lose hundreds of thousands in assets, but still owe the bank..... The building and real estate sector goes into a death spiral... Bank shares plummet.... Opposition leader Shep' Dawg ccouldn't get the independents to vote down the laws..... The polls show if an election was held, Dawgs SHFP (super happy fun party) would shit it in....

"Halt or extremely limit the use of imported labour in Australia ."............... Even though Pm Blowin never revitalized TAFE after Treasurer Sypo took to it with a meat cleaver in similar vane as Howard all those years ago, they go ahead with this knee jerk xenophobic policy...... Opposition leader Dawg said at the time, "Look, we need to re invest in tafe.. We need at least 6 years of training own own skilled workers before we are in a position to be self supportive in regards to filling technical and trade postions.... If Blowin had of worked in a bitartisan manner, we wouldn't have projects sitting idle like we do thanks to no skilled work available..... Now these companies are going offshore, investing in other parts of the world..... "

I could go on...... Bahahahahaha

Sheepdog

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 11:43pm

We need at least 6 years of training before we are self supporting in trades ?

Which trades would they be and what would make you think this is true ?

I know , probably a lot better than you do , that TAFE and trades training has been hollowed out by the government over the last decade.....which is why I suggested no,privatisation for education , free tertiary and a better funded education system all round.

But really , who doesn't want that apart from business that will profit from the privatisation of education ?

Cmon Sheepdog, I wrote those points in 5 minutes two weeks ago and that's the best you can come up with ?

PS So you wish to keep on selling Australia by the square metre ?

You honestly think that's in the best interests of the nation ?

You do realise that the property bubble is going to have an ugly ending regardless , don't you ?

PPS mate, I've got to reiterate , why would you think I wouldn't be for education in Australia ....even though it was literally written 3 times ?

You seem to be so desperate to pin me as a John Howard / Tony Abbott amalgam even though I share no common ground with them whatsoever, have never voted for them and despise their ilk - as I've told you.

So I'm happy for you to disagree with me and not even like me , but the least have the courtesy to disagree with what I actually say rather than transpose Abbott's identity over mine.

And another thing - Knee jerk xenophobic policy ??!!

You think I've come to the conclusion that Australia is being dudded by imported foreign labour overnight ?

I have seen this shit unfold over decades, knee jerk reaction it is not.

Baseless xenophobia is it ?

Real wages stagnating , even declining ....why do you think ?

Here's something to think about - as an example take one of xxxxxxx's massive LNG ventures in the Pilbara , the xxxxxxxxx project.

7000 employees , more than half are from overseas - fact - assume that 35 percent are sending money home , say 70 percent of their net pay .

That equates to just under $230,000,000 loss to Australia per annum.

The same amount of earnings received from the exportation of wine from WA to China that has got the state in a state of excitement as a great redeemer post resources boom.

Oh and incidentally, xxxxxxxx will be shipping off the first 300,000,000 tonnes of LNG free of charge. No royalties for 20 years !

And the coast is an eyesore thanks to industrial development.

And WA is prohibitively expensive to live in thanks to the mining boom that didn't actually profit that many people.

And those foreign workers are now bailing from the state and country , having drained the main source of benefit , the income of the actual construction workers.

You reckon it's just xenophobia though , do you ?

And if you honestly believe that Australia doesn't have , and didn't always have , the quality and quantity of workers required to service our own needs then you are a victim of all the media delivered, social engineering propaganda that you so despise.

Ironically enough, you would have been better off watching Masterchef rather than the newsfeed teet you constantly suckle.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 9:51pm

Well for what it's worth I reckon they were pretty bloody decent policies. Made even more so since they were jotted in five minutes.

Must've missed 'em first time around.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Thursday, 30 Jun 2016 at 10:02pm

x 2

I even copied and pasted it and forwarded on to quite a few people.

For 5 mins of work i thought it showed more insight than most of our pollies have garnered in a lifetime.

1173

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 1:02am

Blowin, did that response take 3 minutes? FFS.... There's some naivity out there lol.....

Do you think i like what has happened re' overseas investors shutting out first home buyers, Blowin? Do you think I like Major farms being bought by the Chinese? No.... No I don't..... But your "fix it" strategy sucks.... If you think forcibly popping the bubble is a good thing, sending the markets into free fall, then fuck me..... The only way to get around a major crash, which is what your policy would do, is to have very slowproperty price growth over a ten to maybe 15 year period..... Let the air out slowly..... I think Labors negative gear changes would be good for that....
And Instead of banning all overeseas investment, which would fuck us, perhaps allow purchase of farms but make it policy that 60% of yield must be sold to Australian consumers, as not to have all produce leave the shores..... Food security..... I plucked that number by the way....

In regards to skilled labour shortage;

https://docs.employment.gov.au/system/files/doc/other/skillshortagelista...

But of course there's more than that......

Anyways...... You have your plan........ Here a a few simple steps I'd take in my first 6 months leading this shit hole..
Just as every new house has to be fitted with smoke alarms, every new dwelling will have solar panels.. In fact, i'd make solar panels and istallation free of gst to encourage older houses to take them up..... There's some immediate jobs, less carbon, more investement..... All research and development into alternative energy would get a comapany tax rate of only 10%..... That may encourage overseas renewable companies to set up shop here...... More jobs.....
I'd move all riverina rice production to the tropics, where it belongs, creating jobs in the north, and help return water to the Murray Darling Basin....
I'd legalize medical cannabis, which would replace the rice crops in the riverina, only using a fraction of the water, and giving riverina farmers a replacement crop....
I'd pull out of Syria, but still offer logistical help to the USA via Pine gap etc, saving us millions....
I'd adopt Labors negative gearing changes...
I'd scrap those useless employment agencies, and have a one stop shop..
I'd legalize gay mariage ( quite a money spinner actually)
I'd take drug addiction away from the legal fraternity, and hand it to the medical fraternity.

That's a fair start...

I'm going to bed lol

Sheepdog

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 6:11am

That took you 4 hours ?

Where do you think the government gets its information on the shortage of skilled labour ?

You're right, there is a lot of naïveté out there.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 9:27am

I can't believe you called Australia a shit hole.

Australia is beautiful and compared to many countries I've seen, really well looked after.

(On the surface at the very least)

1173

sharkman's picture
sharkman's picture
sharkman commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 9:42am

Ah Mr Zen ,good point , reminds me of a great Comedians comment on his visit to Australia many years ago Dave Allen .

He used to sit in front of the camera deadpan , with a Scotch at his right hand , and as he had just returned from a Fantastic trip to Australi , " Australia is the most beautiful country I have ever seen , and the locals were charming, hospitable , would help you constantly , invite you home for tea, offer you lodging , transport , the most welcoming people on the planet ," he then takes a sip of his drink , ......

....."but didn't think much of the white people!"

x

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 9:49am

I conveniently overlooked that Agent Sharkman- whoops!

Didn't say Oz was perfect but it aint no shithole.

1173

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 11:06am

Blowin writes "That took you 4 hours ?"

Ummmm..... You may sit at your pc 24/7..... I dont... I've got a life.... Yeah my post was at 9pm.... The next one was at 1 am..... Ever consider I went off and watched poor old Floyds bombers bomb? Maybe catch "Choppers Anzacistan"? Which btw was hilarious!........
Yep...... Idiocy reigns supreme...

Zen writes "I can't believe you called Australia a shit hole.
Australia is beautiful and compared to many countries I've seen, really well looked after"

Well mate, you better call the sedition squad and report me......
As you sort of pointed out - "On the surface at the very least", beauty is more than skin deep.... I was referring to Australian society... It's broken.....
If you don't believe me, believe Blowin... Look at his list, not mine.... He has written " Halt foreign ownership of real estate...all forms , Limit population growth through restricted immigration ., Halt or extremely limit the use of imported labour in Australia"......... ( he then points out lack of funding for health, education, welfare, the privatisation of Australian assetts, lobbying screwing politics, disunity amongst Australians, an unfair taxation system, political corruption)..............

So that's what blowin points out...... But if you aint happy with that, Zen, maybe check Turkmanistans list "- Recognition and dignity for minorities including Indigenous, gay, disabled and to an extent, women.

Stopping the politicisation of issues like asylum seekers/indigenous.

Non-partisanship of the Federal Police, Border Force etc.

Transparent government with regard to asylum seeker boat arrivals, offshore detention, donations received, pork barrelling etc."

So yeah, Zen...... Cradle Mountain is beautiful..... The Limestone coast is fresh and clean, Daintree is breathtaking,....... Blah blah blah....... But that's just geography......

Sheepdog

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Friday, 1 Jul 2016 at 11:42am

Sure man and the majority of Aussies for the most part are awesome in my opinion.

You may think so but in my jaded eyes, Australia is no shit hole.

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