All Things Religion Thread

Optimist wrote:

Seeds everyone has their reasons for doing things and Jesus said to judge not….you can discern if a thing is outright ungodly and anti Gods nature or not….but genuine hurting people respond differently. My father in law hated God all his life because a catholic priest kicked him when he was young. He gave his life to Christ just before his death but missed out on an incredible opportunity to flow along with God in life because of one man and the grudge he carried….and my church?…I’m just a traveller in time and enjoying the ride. I’ve lived to surf all my life and try also to be Gods friend and help people. I’ve never chased wealth but raised a family who all have families and work in successful humble businesses. God blessed me with my own home without any stress….just blundered along doing my thing and it all came together. Taught Jesus in China and Indonesia as well as Australian schools and started successful charities that have for over 20 years helped lots of people to this day….all this and I’m a complete nobody, not that bright with no real skills….just goes to show that God doesn’t need people with any real ability….just availability.

(Well that didn’t work)
God didn’t bless you with anything. We all have what we have through our own work. And luck!. Unfortunately you can’t see the hurt your religion brings. You hate on the big religions and their wealth, rightfully so, but can’t accept any criticism. ABC is religion bashing now. Making it up? Your lack of self awareness is astounding.
When you are are not “condemning”family or friends who leave the church how do you treat them.
These infriltaters are really just members of your church aren’t they. How are they dealt with. Internally or externally?

“Seeds everyone has their reasons for doing things and Jesus said to judge not….you can discern if a thing is outright ungodly and anti Gods nature or not….but genuine hurting people respond differently …”

But judgement is precisely what you do, like how you accused Brittany Higgins of being politically motivated in bringing her alleged rape to the public, not once but on several occasions.

I’m guessing your unbridled sense of grandeur and self righteousness comes from your devotion to and following of Ephesians 5:24, FFS even @ info openly acknowledges that his misses is the brains of the outfit.

‘No one preached to me, no one coerced me. I just knew there was God because I could see from the maths and the created things nothing but design.’
Did you really? Or did you come to that belief after your indoctrination. You said originally you spoke to or was spoken to by God after a 3 day fast. Doodling maths theories whilst fasting were you?
I’ve done a few 3 day fasts and by the 50 plus hour there is a feeling of exalted state but no God. Once into the 60 plus hours there is just hunger. I wish I saw Gozer the Destructor at that stage and I’d be all into that far out shit.

2011 altima 0 60

It’s obvious you’re searching so keep at it seeds, but do it in a good spirit not an angry one. If you’re genuine He will be watching you,…you’ll get there in the end. You will find Him.

I’ll pass, thanks.

Our expanding and vibrating universe.
Science and scripture agree that the universe came from a small focal point and is moving and vibrating outward. We who follow scripture understand this theory but I'm amazed that scientists can actually measure this phenomenon. People like Galileo would be impressed with our technology.
It seems that the earth itself is quite an old rock with an unknown history, but this current civilisation is quite new and that is also supported by scripture and all the world population graphs and growth algorithms from all sources.

I love the way John starts his Gospel. John the apostle was the deep thinker and spiritual guy. Very different to the other gospel authors. He starts his record of Jesus this way......

John chapter 1 King James Version. (amplified)

1 In the beginning was the Word, (the son, the speaker, the visible one)... .and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ( same ghost or spirit as God the father)

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; (the son) and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. (the baptist)

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

What an honour, the creator comes, lives among us, becomes one of us , substitutes His life on the cross for ours, blood for blood, life for life and declares forgiveness for us. We were guilty, now through His name we are free...talk to Him...He loves you and the changes we crave in our souls come through the personal connection with your maker, not through other men, though you will find many like minded friends that become brothers and sisters in Christ....
As Easter approaches, ponder these things and their importance to mankind.

In the beginning, God created The Garden Of Eden-

The Roman soldiers mocked Him too….His response…Father forgive them , for they know not what they do.

Leviticus 21:18-21
"For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God."

Ezekiel 23:18-21: When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

The girls wanted donkey dicks back in the day too

The Holy gospel/bible is full of verses that show it is absolute truth and no need to argue about how forgiving and loving god is.He loves you and your mrs.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

According to flopti :

‘John the apostle was the deep thinker and spiritual guy’ …

Wtf ? How the Fark do you know that ?
Are you sure you’re not just making shit up again to suit your own ideas… ;);)

https://college.unc.edu/2020/03/gospel-of-john/

Leviticus 26:27–29

“But if in spite of this you will not listen to me, but walk contrary to me, then I will walk contrary to you in fury, and I myself will discipline you sevenfold for your sins.You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.”

Optimist wrote:

The Roman soldiers mocked Him too….His response…Father forgive them , for they know not what they do.

So Bart was forgiven? How bout Homer and Marge?

You’re the mocker Suchas, homer won’t be a substitute for you I’m afraid.
And it’s good to see the others so deeply buried in text written around 3500 years ago. An ancient and different world full of strange rules for humanities undisciplined loose units …..unlike today….or, maybe not….
...and yes some cultures cursed themselves due to their behaviour to the point of war and extreme famine where they wiped themselves out….will history repeat?

Optimist wrote:

You’re the mocker Suchas, homer won’t be a substitute for you I’m afraid.
And it’s good to see the others so deeply buried in text written around 3500 years ago. An ancient and different world full of strange rules for humanities undisciplined loose units …..unlike today….or, maybe not….
...and yes some cultures cursed themselves due to their behaviour to the point of war and extreme famine where they wiped themselves out….will history repeat?

no flopti, all we are doing is picking writing from a fictional book you choose to somehow live you life by.

The same book that has caused pains to millions of children. The same book that covers up pedos.

The most sane part of this thread (aside from Adam12’s dissemination – I’d buy that kids book!) was indo-dreaming's advice for Optimist to press return occasionally (not metaphorically, just to make the thread easier), and Optimist's calm concession. A pragmatic exchange between two sentient apes with differing views. Now that’s civilised discourse! Socrates would be proud - not that we have any first-hand accounts from him either...

This data is actually from nearly 10 years ago...but you get the point
Megachurches and how they siphon peoples blind beliefs into dollars.
"Lakewood church, is attended weekly by 43500 people, and has a budget of $70 million. Joel Olsteen of the Lakewood church, Houston, Texas lives in a luxurious, 17,000 square foot 10.5 m dollar mansion in Houston, Texas. Money made through his books is estimated at $55 m. He has a net worth of $40m (cited in Online Christian Colleges)"
http://www.onlinechristiancolleges.com/megachurches/
dunno if link still works.

God and Jesus make gold though(the universe too) and make their own note prints for bank notes. Those people are not working for the lord our savior, our creator they are Kirk Cameron wannabes.Kirk Cameron is Jesus. If you need proof, well religion doesn't work that way it requires blind faith.

Not sure why i don't hate religion so much overseas. Maybe im just a miserable old grump after losing fitness and health and other shit going on. In aceh especially i dont mind Muslims or Christians and love stories of the Indonesian /Javanese/sundanese Sea goddess of the indian ocean..Had a picture of her on my cyclone damaged window of plywood but in Aus just get the shits with religion, the bullshit of relgious powers getting away with pedo shit and money making schemes.

Own Dad is heavy catholic always has been, bought a north sydney apartment off a church too which was an excellent place to watch olympic ceremony and new years fireworks with wide views of sydney harbour, bridge etc..Never mention to him anything about religion and he really seems to want to help out people these days even in retirement but the church wants to knock down the apartment building and make a super multi domestic highrise much bigger than current one and kick out my dad.
Some how believe in god and being a powerful religious priest or clergyman/pope type doesnt make god give you monies.You have to be a capitalism purist.Buy all property in the board game monopoly where everyone not buying any property is basically either communism or socialism.But equal wealth as boring as that type of game would be.

groundswell wrote:

Not sure why i don't hate religion so much overseas.

Maybe because you are male? Let's be realistic, these forums are anything but representative. When my wife and I traveled extensively through Muslim countries there were moments when she felt really uncomfortable. We made memories for life and some great friends but she did struggle at moments and definitely didn't feel comfortable walking on her own in certain places/times of the day.

"Let's be realistic, these forums are anything but representative."

#Muslim?

Not many Christians here either, it would seem. Thank God!!

Groundswell I think your experience overseas relates to people having less clutter in their lives.
It’s expected for Christian people to follow the master and be peace keepers and so they should be. The surprising thing is that even though Mohammad was a jihadi warlord who expects likewise from his followers, the average Muslim that I meet are just normal nice people and I think that’s really because in essence we are all Gods children and most people are just plain nice.
The experience we have in less capitalistic countries is that people live very basic lives and only have humble possessions and their faith in God to sustain them.
We in the west have become the fat kids on the block with all kinds of distractions and as you said forget about people’s well being over profits such as your dads flat etc.
In general, most people everywhere are good folk , but people will let you down, it’s in our sinful nature and also because we live in a fallen world with an end date.
People may let you down , but God and His son Jesus will never let you down.
That’s a promise from Him.

How’s the scorecard for promises in the Ukraine? And Rolling Fork?? https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/suspected-tornado-touches-northe...
Or Nashville??? https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/03/28/nashville-school-shooting-p...

So suchas, if a builder builds you a beautiful home with everything including landscaped gardens, and you punch a hole in the roof and build a fire in the living room and neglect the garden, it’s all the builders fault when it turns to shit.

Ah .... but Opti, you are trapped by your own analogy.

If the builder is all an powerful being and is said to love the residents (his children) and they pray to him to save them from death as the roof falls in, but he stands by and just watches them suffer and die, is that okay?

In your view of the world we should still worship the builder even though he is, on the evidence all around us, 99.9999% of the time a passive spectator to his children's lives and especially their suffering.

Unbelieveable.

frog wrote:

Ah .... but Opti, you are trapped by your own analogy.

If the builder is all an powerful being and is said to love the residents (his children) and they pray to him to save them from death as the roof falls in, but he stands by and just watches them suffer and die, is that okay?

In your view of the world we should still worship the builder even though he is, on the evidence all around us, 99.9999% of the time a passive spectator to his children's lives and especially their suffering.

He stands idly by as the crooks, thugs, rapists, paedophiles and murderers do their thing.
“It’s to test your faith” he says.

FFS. Had a J.W turn up this arvo. Haven't had the displeasure since covid hit.
Apparently, God wants me to attend the memorial of Jesus' death on the 4th April.
Even when you politely decline the probing and questioning continues. Doesn't matter that your busy and in the middle of something, the farkers can't take a hint.
Cue the door slam.

I always tell them im just a burgler in a hurry before tenants get home and they go away.

I had a flatmate once who used to spend hours arguing with them. Neither side ended up convincing the other. I wonder how many they 'convert' through door knocking anyway?

Optimist wrote:

Unbelieveable.

Sorry Opti that was unbelievable.

I was a bit inaccurate - it was probably not 99.9999% of prayers gone unanswered in the last 2000 years but more like 99.999999999999%

Good odds. Sign me up.

frog wrote:

Ah .... but Opti, you are trapped by your own analogy.

If the builder is all an powerful being and is said to love the residents (his children) and they pray to him to save them from death as the roof falls in, but he stands by and just watches them suffer and die, is that okay?

In your view of the world we should still worship the builder even though he is, on the evidence all around us, 99.9999% of the time a passive spectator to his children's lives and especially their suffering.

It gets even more complicated; the builder has given you house, tools for survival but has setup challenges that you need to overcome to prove your worthiness. He loves you but if you don’t overcome the challenges you are destined to spend life and afterlife in misery. This is where he is just an observer of one’s path to prove love through sacrifices in the name of the all mighty.

And here is the mother of all problems; this would indicate that love god has towards his ‘children’ is conditional. And that version of love is simply not true love. Any rational human being knows that true love is unconditional. You love your children no matter what and you will never sentence them ‘to life in hell’. The little shits can definitely cause all sorts of trouble but you will never give up on them and you will do whatever it takes to set them on the right path.

So basically, it’s nearly impossible for a rational human being to attribute true love to god and especially not the church. However, not all people are rational.

My lovely mum is supposedlly in hell based on the rules purely cause she did not believe - toasting over red hot coals all day only to be turned over at night to even up the pain and keep her teeth gnashing.

The joy of belief.

Wilhelm Scream wrote:

"Let's be realistic, these forums are anything but representative."

#Muslim?

I was mainly referring to this forum being predominately male so, lack of women. But sure, maybe there is no religious diversity. If you’re asking me if I’m a Muslim the answer is no. I’m an atheist but I read the bible and kuran thoroughly to make sure I understand the topic and to see if I had any gaps in my belief system. I also spent quite a few months in Muslim countries, predominantly across Northern Africa which helped me understand the role of religion in those societies. I also studied Protestantism a bit, especially Luther and his role in breaking away from the Catholic Church. To be honest, Luther impressed me the most, he had the balls to take on the establishment. A true anarchist who was well ahead of his time.

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

― Marcus Aurelius

Unbelievable? Surely if you live in a fantasy, the constuct shouldn’t exist.

Exactly Tubeshooter!

tubeshooter wrote:

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

― Marcus Aurelius

Marcus definitely left us some very wise writings ...

Wow that's lovely...warm and fuzzy even.
The reality of how God sees things is quite different as well as the way He corrects things.

13 Influential intellectual atheists, who became Christians and believed God exists, and the resurrection of Jesus true
1. Albert Henry Ross (1881-1950)
Englishman lawyer and journalist Albert Ross was a skeptic. He criticized the Bible and believed in Darwin. He wrote a book to disprove the resurrection of Jesus. Instead, he became a Christian and wrote: “Who moved the Stones?.” As a novelist, Ross was known as Frank Morison.
2. Anthony Flew (1923 -2010)
Anthony Flew a famous spokesperson of atheism before Dawkins and Hitchens. The world was shocked when he said God exists in 2004 and wrote a book about it. He based it both on empirical and philosophical evidence.
3. Alister E. McGrath (1953)
Alister McGrath is a historian and biochemist scientist who believed in evolution. He is a Professor of Science and Religion who became a Christian apologist.
4. Francis Collins (1950)
Francis Collins is an American physician-geneticist who discovered gene diseases that led to the Human Genome Project. He investigated many faiths, and though he resisted, the evidence was clear, and he converted to Christianity.
5. Gilbert West (1703-1756)
Gilbert West was an eminent English poet who studied at Oxford. He debunked the resurrection of Jesus but could not. He became a Christian and wrote the book ‘Observations on the History and Evidence‘ of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ in 1747.
6. David Wood (1976)
David Wood was an atheist diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy). After his jail time, he earned a doctorate in philosophy. He’s a Christian apologist who founded a ministry that critiques Islam.
7. John Gurdon (1933)
John Gurdon is a developmental biologist known for his research in nuclear transplantation and cloning. A Nobel prize for Physiology Medicine. He considered himself agnostic but later referred to himself as a liberal-minded Christian.
8. John Eccles (1903 – 1997)
John Eccles was a neurophysiologist and a Nobel Prize Award in Physiology Medicine—a devout Catholic who believed in divine providence over materialistic happenings of biological evolution.
9. Jordan Peterson (1962)
Jordan Peterson was an intellectual atheist who was open to theology but found it difficult to reconcile the God of the Bible as a loving God. He is also an astute and rational intellect who investigated the Bible. He said the Bible is more durable than stone or an empire and a life-changing academic and historical text.
In 2022, he declared that he was no longer an atheist. He had a series of lectures on Genesis and recently a collaboration with Daily Wire, along with a team of formidable theological and literary scholars, for an unprecedented, in-depth analysis of the Book of Exodus, taken seriously in the modern era.
10. Lee Strobel (1952)
Lee Strobel is an investigative journalist. He was an atheist and tried to prove the Bible was not valid. The evidence he acquired changed his mind, and he became a Christian.
Strobel’s critical proof of Christ’s resurrection were eyewitness accounts from non-Christians, evidence of an empty tomb, evidence of post-resurrection appearance with multiple eyewitnesses, and ultimately the transformation of the lives of His followers.
11. Nabeel Qureshi (1983 – 2017)
Devout Muslim Intellect Nabeel Qureshi investigated Christianity for 15 years. Although he believed in the God of the Muslim, it was not the one true God of the Bible. He left Islam for Jesus.
12. Rosalind Picard (1962)
Rosalind Picard was raised as an atheist and converted as a young adult. She is a scholar and inventor who founded MIT’s Affective Computing Research Group. She received the highest professional honors accorded an engineer.
13. Simon Greenleaf (1783-1853)
Simon Greenleaf, a chief founder of Harvard Law School, refers to Christianity as a silly myth. After being challenged by students based on history and evidence, he became a believer in Jesus.

Insufficient data for meaningful answer?
http://www.thelastquestion.net/

Time to resolve 2000 years of debate and speculation once and for all with a single simple event.

I call upon the big fella in sky to metamorphose into a 1000 foot high bearded wise man and stand in Central Park in full view for a few days until the crowds and media gather. Then, he should dictate a new 5 page Bible to the world summarising his commandments, removing all the tedious begetting and scary smote stuff, and set out clearly the rules to get into heaven, the delights to be found there and the punishments waiting in hell.

It would be a mass conversion event on the scale of billions a day. Churches would fill. News and Tic Tok would over flow with visions of the great one.

Opti would no longer have to dance around difficult questions on swellnet trying to convert annoying sceptical surfer types. Opti and I could even hang out and compose hymns together.

It would be so easy. Why not?

"I also studied Protestantism a bit, especially Luther and his role in breaking away from the Catholic Church. To be honest, Luther impressed me the most, he had the balls to take on the establishment. A true anarchist who was well ahead of his time."

#Simpatico?

https://ipa.org.au/ipa-review-articles/luther-nailed-it

#HowzaboutThatCromwell,Begorrah?

Luther was a legend, as was Wycliffe and Tyndale. …to translate the bible into English was punishable by death by the Roman Catholic Church.

Optimist wrote:

Luther was a legend, as was Wycliffe and Tyndale. …to translate the bible into English was punishable by death by the Roman Catholic Church.

Spot on. German as well, Luther knew that his actions carried a death sentence.

@Wilhelm Scream I don't know if you are asking a question, making a statement, or something else. In any case, I'm talking about Luther himself, not necessarily the whole movement or what happened centuries later. I studied that time period in great depth and Luther was definitely an impressive individual.

I think he’s saying he was a righteous dude.