All Things Religion Thread

It’s obvious you’re quoting Christian sources. Everything secular or Muslim based that I read on the subject clearly separate Hubal and Allah as being distinct from one another and that neither was a moon god.
What’s your source Optimist?

Tomato, never BBQ oh and Mae Ploy sweet chilli another fav.

PS you won’t get pre Muslim stuff from hardcore muslims as they alter history to suit,…and wiki is sometimes good but often Wakky…not even allowed in colleges as a reference. Just keep digging and you’ll be fine….and yes I have some Muslim friends in indo who are open to discussion on many topics…two young clerics I met once appreciated a little New Testament bible I gave them with psalms and proverbs in It as well because they are into king David and king Solomon.
The greatest deception in Islam that excludes them from the salvation message is that “ Allah has no son “ this contradicts the true God who has a son “the messiah “ and is co- equal and co exists with the father. The son is the visible image of the invisible God and shares the same ghost or spirit making Him the same as God but in a visible form as we have seen in history….back to my fencing and it’s hot too.

Shit joke and won’t answer.
Yep it’s no doubt you right into that discredited 20th century Christian propaganda to discredit Islam as a pagan religion under a pagan god. Study? Ha what a joke. Sad man.

Optimist wrote:

PS you won’t get pre Muslim stuff from hardcore muslims as they alter history to suit,…

Like the second testament? What was wrong with the first one?

Ha yeah there’s some history they’d like to alter

Guys constant obsession with pedophilia is perhaps a reflection on his character. Perhaps you should join the Roman Catholic order Guy….the rest of the real christians are out looking after the needy and like my wife , housing the homeless which is currently growing to be a big thing, running food banks and organising doctors overseas , mercy ships , taking in abused kids in foster care, running drug and alcohol rehab, you know, all the stuff God said to do….so please give your hate a rest.

Optimist wrote:

Guys constant obsession with pedophilia is perhaps a reflection on his character. Perhaps you should join the Roman Catholic order Guy….the rest of the real christians are out looking after the needy and like my wife , housing the homeless which is currently growing to be a big thing, running food banks and organising doctors overseas , mercy ships , taking in abused kids in foster care, running drug and alcohol rehab, you know, all the stuff God said to do….so please give your hate a rest.

Did you mourn the death of Pell?

Are those good deeds free of (your) religious preaching opti, service provided no religious strings attached, or is that an integral part of the meal deal? The MO?

Nope, all volunteers, no strings attached, no favour of one person above another, the word charity actually means love, and the master giver Jesus Christ commands that we the people of earth love one another as He loved us. He surprised so many people with His choice of characters that He healed and taught. Some people expand their community by war, some by financial gain, but Christianity is spread by a message of love and then the deeds to back it up….takes a bit of practise too, as well as Gods help to be nice, because your old nature often kicks in and sometimes you just want to slap someone.

Nice lil preaching there opti but you avoided the question.

The first rule of Opti's Club is: you do not answer tricky questions.

Opti, did you mourn the death of Pell and did you preach your religion to the people you are helping?

Pretty simple questions.

Optimist wrote:

Guys constant obsession with pedophilia is perhaps a reflection on his character. Perhaps you should join the Roman Catholic order Guy….the rest of the real christians are out looking after the needy and like my wife , housing the homeless which is currently growing to be a big thing, running food banks and organising doctors overseas , mercy ships , taking in abused kids in foster care, running drug and alcohol rehab, you know, all the stuff God said to do….so please give your hate a rest.

I mean since when did anybody need permission from some alleged so called god to do some good in this world? and I hate to say it, but I'm with Burls on this one - what about all the preaching/kiddy fiddling?

World’s best practice prosperity gospelling right there

https://apple.news/A0Q_3gv59SuSP_LAJDc-47Q

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/hillsong-accused-of-misusing-...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/09/hillsong-accused-of-money-...

Breaking news, Guy Smiley has worked out Pell and Houston are dodgy. Don’t worry about all the good people like the Salvos etc, fixate on Pell and Houston aaark Pell and Houston aaark….give the atheist a cracker please.

All the good people- https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/12/salvation-army-fo...

Flopti :

‘all the good people like the salvos etc’

Redefining ‘good people’ through the flopti lens ;)

- We know who needs the cracker ;);)

Quick…
Scramble for an imagined explanation ;)
Make some shit up.

The link from suchas shows how far you got ya head up your clacker !

Unfortunately infiltrators are everywhere, but we shouldn’t deny the good work genuine people do. Without the very large Christian family picking up the homeless, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the hungry across every nation on earth , the world would be a much harsher place in which to live. Over the last 40 years as a member of many churches in my travels, I have seen first hand several predators trying to sneak into a congregation like wolves in sheep’s clothing. Fortunately most were busted early but some always get through due to their cunning evil ways. Unfortunately some pastors and ministers are just too nice or too dumb one or the other, not listening to their gut and to God when certain even slightly suspicious people should be just outright barred. I think it comes from them not believing that people could be so evil but …there they are,

Optimist, how about all of the good work done by genuine people who are not Christian?

Optimist wrote:

Breaking news, Guy Smiley has worked out Pell and Houston are dodgy. Don’t worry about all the good people like the Salvos etc, fixate on Pell and Houston aaark Pell and Houston aaark….give the atheist a cracker please.

Did you mourn Pells death? and what did you think about the public figures that attended his funeral?

Optimist wrote:

Unfortunately infiltrators are everywhere, but we shouldn’t deny the good work genuine people do. Without the very large Christian family picking up the homeless, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the hungry across every nation on earth , the world would be a much harsher place in which to live. Over the last 40 years as a member of many churches in my travels, I have seen first hand several predators trying to sneak into a congregation like wolves in sheep’s clothing. Fortunately most were busted early but some always get through due to their cunning evil ways. Unfortunately some pastors and ministers are just too nice or too dumb one or the other, not listening to their gut and to God when certain even slightly suspicious people should be just outright barred. I think it comes from them not believing that people could be so evil but …there they are,

What about the world wide misery churches have bought to children and indigenous communities. You guys are largely in deficit I would imagine. Now Hillsong being revealed as a Ponzi scheme under the guise of a charity……… I suppose they didn’t get caught fuckinjg kids. Like most other churches. Oh no that happened too.. yeah Christian’s!

Don’t even get me started on the worlds biggest “victims” not much Christian charity getting thrown around Israel if you’re a Palestinian. Hiding behind the holocaust forever. Cunts.

Optimist, spiritualism is good. Religion is about control and coercion and there’s a whole lot of bad for a meagre return of good.

Good on you for persisting Optimist. I'm an atheist but you have my support.

Here’s a thought- how bout starting afresh- new religion- just Opti and Jesus. That way there’s no baggage- just you and pure thoughts!

Optimist wrote:

Unfortunately infiltrators are everywhere, but we shouldn’t deny the good work genuine people do. Without the very large Christian family picking up the homeless, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the hungry across every nation on earth , the world would be a much harsher place in which to live. Over the last 40 years as a member of many churches in my travels, I have seen first hand several predators trying to sneak into a congregation like wolves in sheep’s clothing. Fortunately most were busted early but some always get through due to their cunning evil ways. Unfortunately some pastors and ministers are just too nice or too dumb one or the other, not listening to their gut and to God when certain even slightly suspicious people should be just outright barred. I think it comes from them not believing that people could be so evil but …there they are,

Yet you still go and support the filth that is religion.

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

Yep, agree - there are plenty of great church orgs doing fantastic work.

But, there are lots of non-christian groups/people also doing great work too, sometimes without the same kinds of benefits/concessions.

Irks me to see the stuff Hillsong gets away with.

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion about "my logic"

But i personally will not donate to a charity that the CEO takes 700K per year from peoples goodwill donations.

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

The non profit I used to work for used to reinvest most of their profit back into the over inflated salaries of the board members running the so called non profit, as well as flashy new buildings which they used to staff with poorly paid carers. So there is that too, and makes you wonder how many other "non profit" organisations are out there that do the same. Lack of shareholders just means less scrutiny and accountability.

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion about "my logic"

But i personally will not donate to a charity that the CEO takes 700K per year from peoples goodwill donations.

Exactly Burleigh. Sounds a bit like Hillsong. Apart from big business what CEO gets these big salaries? Our Prime Minister gets less. A charity CEO gets 700g.

Good point Garyg1412. Not for profit not for spending much on stated cause. Scams

I’m hearing you on Hillsong Ben, never been a fan of Brian always on money money. Blah blah…but some of the musos there were brilliant the best one leaving ages ago named Darlene Zschech who got over it too and started her own church which is doing well I hear. Regarding ceo pay for people like world vision, they do need the best and I think the leaders are on 237k plus compensation which is travel , danger money, expenses , often on private dodgy private small craft into war zones etc…not a job for me that’s for sure, which can total between 500 and 700 k. The rest are on standard salaries and the core group are all volunteers that do a stretch overseas sometimes…plus the good old average joe aussies sponsoring kids, a program my kids and I enjoyed very much while they were growing up.

Cringe

garyg1412 wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

Lack of shareholders just means less scrutiny and accountability.

Yeah, I like this one. Totally agree with this.

“Religions are divisive and quarrelsome. They are a form of one-upmanship because they depend upon separating the “saved” from the “damned,” the true believers from the heretics, the in-group from the out-group. . . . All belief is fervent hope, and thus a cover-up for doubt and uncertainty.” — Alan Watts, The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

Pretty much the same as ideology.

Absolutely.
That's humans for you.

Or….is this a design and there is a master designer who has His own thing going on and whether we like it or not, He has His ways of doing things and rarely changes His mind….just the universe itself and the created things on earth show a master design with maths and physics involved that cannot possibly be written off as accident. Look harder and deeper and you will see design…go deeper again and you will find the designer….don’t be satisfied with people’s versions of religion…ask God Himself to show you and the doors will open. The only thing is, the doorway may challenge your pre conceived ideas and turn upside down everything you think to be real and correct.

Yeh, nah. Grow up and live in the present reality, shit tho it may be

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

Been off grid all day so late to today’s musings…. Yes can agree in principle to much of that, we even volunteer for the salvos, but opti to the unanswered question, the MO of these “christian” orgs especially in Africa and Asia is inglorious in the name of the christian god

Benny Hinn voodoo man

https://m.

Sins of the Amish Part 2 - On 7 bravo now .

My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness. – Dalai Lama

Optimist
What happens in your congregation if someone leaves their marriage or just loses their faith and leaves the church?

Optimist wrote:

Or….is this a design and there is a master designer who has His own thing going on and whether we like it or not, He has His ways of doing things and rarely changes His mind….just the universe itself and the created things on earth show a master design with maths and physics involved that cannot possibly be written off as accident. Look harder and deeper and you will see design…go deeper again and you will find the designer….don’t be satisfied with people’s versions of religion…ask God Himself to show you and the doors will open. The only thing is, the doorway may challenge your pre conceived ideas and turn upside down everything you think to be real and correct.

Say what?

Optimist thinks his ravings make sense.
It’s legal and tax free.