All Things Religion Thread

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Balance started the topic in Sunday, 29 Mar 2020 at 2:13pm

Here you go optimist

Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...

But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!

So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like

You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...

maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here

Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain

All the best...brother

PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!

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blindboy Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 3:56pm

"Well BB how about life itself or the universe as a whole?"

I specified biological. In terms of the origin of life no we don't know exactly how it started ...but there are many possible hypotheses and lots of evidence to support the idea that it started on Earth by natural processes. The fossil record, for example, traces back to simple organisms that closely resemble the simplest organisms we still find today and shows the slow progress of evolutiuonary change. The genetic code is the same for all organisms which suggests a common origin. We know that the basic components of cell membranes spontaneously form cell sized structures under the right conditions. We also know that once any form of replicant forms it will be subject to selection. I could go on but against that what is there? God did it. Well maybe, but if he did he was very careful to hide his fingerprints.

In terms of the cosmos it has always seemed to me unnecessary to propose a beginning. The most basic observbation we can make is that stuff happens. I just assume that observation extends infinitely....and yes that is just as much a belief as a god.......but it involves far less speculation.

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Pops Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 4:02pm
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Pops Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 4:05pm

Chook, you're well above my level on this kind of discussion, but there's an extra bit of nuance there, no? Brutus is admitting that an uncreated (implication being past-eternal) thing can exist without a designer. The weight of evidence points to the universe being past-finite.

chook wrote:

Brutus, you don't seem to appreciate the argument.
By saying God is not created, you admit that things can exist without having a designer. So, what reason have you for holding that the universe is not also one of the things that can exist without a designer?

brutus wrote:

chook, that's why the idea of God being the creator and designer ....of all!

That's the question man is always trying to find......where did it all start....so everytime the scientists drill down into the hows and whys....such as the God Particle.......there is nothing random , something or body designed it all!!

chook wrote:

Brutus, intelligent design cannot be right.
Here's why -- we have dilemma. Either the(a) designer was designed or (b)the designed was not designed.
if a then we have a vicious regress and get no explanation of how the universe came to be..
if b, then the designer exists without being designed. So that means things can exist without a designer. So it's possible for the universe similarly to just exist without a designer.

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brutus Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 5:44pm

gsco, Harry Butler was the first naturalist to do a show on nature where he walked around picking up snakes spiders but explaining in Laymen's terms all about nature and to embrace it and not be scared of it ...he was the first personality who everybody loved ...a bit like Steve Irwin but spoke like an Englishman...incredible communicator and I think he was the first on TV to start explaining Australia's flora Fauna...
Back to intelligent design....I had heard that Einsteins theory of relativity had been disproved , but I just don't have education/intellect to really understand the science so I try and rely on peer reviewed articles.
I am intrigued by science and love technology...and you have certainly added to my education , especially when you say ,"
So I think that when you see the quite shaky state and foundation of theories and models of fundamental science, it is quite easy to conclude that religious beliefs are kind of equally plausible and on an equally solid foundation.

"
Just like scientists there are academics who have given their lives to studying the Bible/Christianity , and there are so many uni's etc who teach and explain the Bible....there are some pretty solid facts and also philosophy's that come from the bible....
I am not sure if you would be interested , but I posted a link to The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization.......I think this is one of the most important books that explains the history of how the Bible/Christianity gave us the lives we lead today?

https://chriscribariblog.com/2017/06/07/the-book-that-made-your-world-re...
The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization
Look inside
Understand where we came from. Whether you're an avid student of the Bible or a skeptic of its relevance, The Book That Made Your World will transform your perception of its influence on virtually ever facet of Western civilization. Indian philosopher Vishal Mangalwadi reveals the personal motivation that fueled his own study of the Bible and systematically illustrates how its precepts became the framework for societal structure throughout the last millennium. From politics and science, to academia and technology, the Bible's sacred copy became the key that unlocked the Western mind. Through Mangalwadi's wide-ranging and fascinating investigation, you'll discover: What triggered the West's passion for scientific, medical, and technological advancement How the biblical notion of human dignity informs the West's social structure and how it intersects with other worldviews How the Bible created a fertile ground for women to find social and economic empowerment How the Bible has uniquely equipped the West to cultivate compassion, human rights, prosperity, and strong families The role of the Bible in the transformation of education How the modern literary notion of a hero has been shaped by the Bible's archetypal protagonist Journey with Mangalwadi as he examines the origins of a civilization's greatness and the misguided beliefs that threaten to unravel its progress. Learn how the Bible transformed the social, political, and religious institutions that have sustained Western culture for the past millennium, and discover how secular corruption endangers the stability and …future of us all.

Check out his credentials, an Indian Philosopher.....what do ya think?

gsco wrote:

Brutus I hadn't heard of Harry Butler but he appears to be slightly before my time. I haven't looked into intelligent design theories either.

I personally think Christian (and other) religious beliefs can very peacefully sit beside scientific knowledge without conflict in the same human's mind. Science is just (in large part) mathematical models used to explain and describe observable phenomena of the world around us, whose predictions have not yet been falsified. But a lot of fundamental science is still on surprisingly shaky ground and doesn't necessarily contradict or invalidate religious beliefs.

For instance, the big bang theory also doesn't sit too well with me but for the reason that it's a prediction of Einstein's theory of general relativity under the assumption that the distribution of matter and energy in the universe is "uniform" in all directions. Under this assumption general relativity predicts that space-time should be expanding, starting at a single "space-time point" about 13.8 billion years ago. This expansion has been verified by observation but it's accelerating, which is not predicted by general relativity based on our measurement of the visible matter-energy density of the universe. This leads to ideas such as dark matter and dark energy, and leads some cosmologists to believe that general relativity is not quite correct.

Indeed, in this sense one could say that some predictions of general relativity are wrong (have been falsified), but instead of throwing out general relativity, scientists are inclined to "invent" new matter and energy in the universe! Pretty dodgy.

Also, Quantum field theories (QFTs) explain the behaviour of subatomic particles interacting with each other at high energy. But QFTs are just a bunch of heuristic or "magical" mathematical rules with little to no rigorous mathematical foundation but whose predictions are startlingly accurate. There is actually a $1m USD prize on offer by the Clay Mathematics Institute (https://www.claymath.org/millennium-problems/yang%E2%80%93mills-and-mass...) for anyone who can put a QFT on a rigorous, logically coherent mathematical ground. That's how important it's deemed by the scientific community.

So here, we have scientists testing the predictions of these heuristic mathematical equations in particle accelerators like the LHC, but we haven't even yet proved that a logically coherent QFT even exists.

So I think that when you see the quite shaky state and foundation of theories and models of fundamental science, it is quite easy to conclude that religious beliefs are kind of equally plausible and on an equally solid foundation.

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brutus Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 5:49pm

yes Jelly , what an idea you have of my level of ignorance....is that your reality ?

Jelly Flater wrote:

Brutus an idea is not a reality ;)
And who is Brian Cox … ;);)

It’s almost astounding the level of ignorance on display.

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brutus Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 5:49pm

yes Jelly , what an idea you have of my level of ignorance....is that your reality ?

Jelly Flater wrote:

Brutus an idea is not a reality ;)
And who is Brian Cox … ;);)

It’s almost astounding the level of ignorance on display.

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brutus Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 5:52pm
chook wrote:

Brutus, you don't seem to appreciate the argument.
By saying God is not created, you admit that things can exist without having a designer. So, what reason have you for holding that the universe is not also one of the things that can exist without a designer?

brutus wrote:

chook, that's why the idea of God being the creator and designer ....of all!

That's the question man is always trying to find......where did it all start....so everytime the scientists drill down into the hows and whys....such as the God Particle.......there is nothing random , something or body designed it all!!

chook wrote:

Brutus, intelligent design cannot be right.
Here's why -- we have dilemma. Either the(a) designer was designed or (b)the designed was not designed.
if a then we have a vicious regress and get no explanation of how the universe came to be..
if b, then the designer exists without being designed. So that means things can exist without a designer. So it's possible for the universe similarly to just exist without a designer.

one God , one creator of all!

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Leebo20 Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 6:07pm
Optimist wrote:

Gday Balance, I'll give the short version of why I am who I am and why I'm compelled to speak about it. It may not be interesting to most but seeing as you asked.
..I'd lived through and survived the 70's and saw many friends die from heroin etc. Some were my older surf heroes from Norah Head, Toukley, Budgewoi and Sydney. When I watch my favorite movie Forrest Gump, just before the scene where Jenny is about to jump, and I see those guys hitting up, it sends a shiver down my spine as I was there and saw it all. I was a bit too young to join in then but I felt the pain. I stuck to weed.
At 19, I picked up a book called "the miracle of fasting" By Paul C Bragg. It looked good to me ,so detox here we come. After 3 days on just distilled water all this shit started coming out of me. Two weeks later I did 4 days the same and felt amazing afterward. so much so that I started running everywhere instead of driving just to burn it up. The strange thing was I would swear God was talking to me at night in these amazing dreams etc. I blew it off and forgot it and stayed super fit for a few years until I moved up the north coast and built a log cabin on a rented 5 acres for $5 per week and had a family in 1978. Nice cabin $2000 all up, hand adzed and chain sawed, vegies and weed growing side by side in my patch. Handyman business to farmers, livin the dream, surfing quiet places like Angourie among many others. Anyway all my mates from south came to visit and loved what I was doing and wanted to do likewise. So they did, all up 50 of em including girlfriends etc. Turned into quite a community but then the greed came too. Big crops, big money, agro, accusations against each other, guns you name it. I started to hate them and what they had brought to my rural community. I was feeling so shit guilty that I went squatting in an old miners hut with my family just to get away from the parties etc and my friends.
It was there Mr Balance that I poured my heart out to a big open sky, I knew there was a God there somewhere, I can do the maths and physics, I'm not an idiot.
Anyway, I prayed for forgiveness and He answered me. So powerful it was it transformed me and I was never the same again. I was 24 years old.
So I left my cabin, my friends etc and traveled studying the original King James 1611 Version Bible. Preached and taught in many places all over the east coast about the love of God and His son Jesus.Was invited to schools by principles to teach on love and community etc. For years though, I couldn't figure out how, if God was God how could Jesus be God too? He showed me one day, while fasting again and it was so simple I missed it. Every man and "Womb" man or woman, have their own spirit or "ghost" if you like. Your flesh and your spirit make you a living soul. When you die your spirit goes back to the Father who gave it. Jesus on the other hand is different. How many times have you heard "that boy is just like his dad". well Jesus is so much like His dad that He is His dad. Jesus and the Father have and share the same ghost or spirit so they are totally interconnected. Two bodies, one person. One too big to see, the other visible and connected to creation.
God is not a pussy though I must say, and not to be messed with, he has His ways and He is a serious but very loving dad. Just like all good dads should be. He is patient and sends rain on the evil and the good until His day of reckoning which is not far away if you've been paying attention to world events. I'm quite sure he is about to hit the reset button but a new Anti Christ who will make Hitler look soft is to come yet. Jesus came from His throne to earth to be just like us, grow up like us among us, to teach us then substitute for us ..Blood for Blood..Life for Life...sin requires death..Penalty paid in full for us on that cross. Would I go about things that way...probably not but who thinks like God? He definitely has His own way of doing things. This can be clearly seen in His created things which must have taken a billion years to dream up. Have there been civilizations before ours, probably but what kind I don't know, as He doesn't talk about such things, He merely wipes them away. My thoughts or guess are another race of what we call fallen angelic beings before us. Lucifer being one of them. He got chucked out of his world long ago with many others. God changed his name from Lucifer "illuminated one" to Satan "destroyer"....Anyway its all in the bible, easy to read versions around these days too. I have experienced things you would not believe if I told you. I have been so grateful to God for having an interest in me all these years simply because I had an open mind while here flying around the sun at 100,000 Klm per hour.
I think there are two types of people, the ones who find out there is a bomb in the building and run for it, and the others who run around telling everyone there is a bomb while being called delusional and an idiot. ...you can decide which one I am.
God bless you guys...take care...Optimist Out

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Leebo20 Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 6:10pm

Like the Dire Straits song.

Telegraph road?

Found a place thought was the best, made a home in the wilderness...

The came the liars, then came the rules.

And that telegraph road

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Jelly Flater Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 6:14pm

;);)

‘Christianity. The belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Yeah… makes perfect sense.’

;);)

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Leebo20 Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 6:24pm

When I read optimists first post, I think of the Dire Straits song.

Telegraph road?

Man came to a spot he thought was best, made a home in the wilderness...

Then came liars, then came the rules, churches.

And that telegraph road...

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gsco Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 7:23pm

Brutus, the book you recommended looks interesting. I just paid a whopping $12 for the Amazon Kindle, so will read it over time. I once read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis, a while ago now, and found it interesting and insightful.

I've read a bit of philosophy and history and am comfortable in my understanding of the very large impact Christianity has had on Western civilisation and culture. I immediately think of scholasticism and its impact on the development of the Western university system, and the impressive architecture of the great universities.

It may not be accurate to say Einstein's theory has been disproved. Most of its predictions are strikingly accurate and a lot of technology wouldn't work very well without it. Regarding dark matter/energy, it's entirely possible that we humans just don't yet have the apparatus to detect it. But general relativity is proving to be annoyingly stubborn to (i) reconcile with quantum theory and (ii) permit combining gravity with the other fundamental forces of nature into one general mathematical framework. Both these points are very far from ideal.

Harry Butler looks like he was a pretty cool dude.

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frog Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 7:41pm

Intelligent design is not a saviour for the biblical belief system and concept of man being so special and loved by the big daddy in the sky.

It creates a new set of awkward questions.

Why so many mistakes and evolutionary dead ends?

When did God decide early homo sapiens had become worthy of a soul?

Did he have a minimum molar tooth size and a cranial capacity size achievement to deserve a soul and his love?

What about the parents of the lucky ones given the first souls - were they just dead while their kiddies all got souls?

Was there a day he zapped a soul into all those with who qualified by a few increments or were judged handsome enough and then banished the uglies and too hairy ones to soullessness?

Like a movie plot full of holes and weird logic. Think too much and it becomes unwatchable.

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blindboy Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 8:14pm

There are numerous problems with intelligent design. Not least that it is unnecessary, is not supported by any evidence and fails to account for the numerous poor designs of many living things. In humans the knee and lower back are very poorly designed for bipedalism. Then there are the numerous horrendous genetic diseases which cause an immense amount of suffering often in very young children......which of course leads to the wider problem of suffering. This all powerful all loving(!!!!!) god, by one means or another has imposed intense suffering on those who have done nothing to deserve it.

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davetherave Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 8:17pm

I remember when I found god. I had this really itchy nose. So I started scratching it. Then I had this overwhelming feeling that there was something more going on and I felt this incredible amazing sensation in my nose. It just seemed like a totally new, a totally all encompassing experience. It shook me to my core and I cried out, what the fucks going on, and a voice within, a voice that knew, vibrated, fuck nose.

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views from the ... Tuesday, 23 Nov 2021 at 8:57pm

The first episode of Universe by Brian Cox on TV explains it well.
I challenge anyone to watch, understand and believe anything else.

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davetherave Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:30am

Views, we are allowed to believe whatever we want. Thats the beauty of the living god, all truths add up to the one truth. Remember, all physical realms are virtual realities. But whatever you choose to believe there is only one question and that is, " am I really and truly happy believing this?"

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overthefalls Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:41am

Speaking of believing whatever you want, what do you all think of speaking of whatever you believe? Here’s some great news for all the bigots out there. The likes of Israel Folau and his brethren must be hooting!

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/religious-australians-to-get-pro...

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overthefalls Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:46am

If fundamentalist Christians are now legally entitled to state their belief that hell awaits homosexuals, I wonder if the new law will legally protect Muslims who say that infidels must die?

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davetherave Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:51am

Yeah, the good news is you dont have to believe what others believe, in fact you can thank them and bless them because it helps you to decide what works for you and can strengthen what you believe in. The only think that I invite you to consider is who you are in relationship to anything, "Who am I?"For me, Israel shows me what not to believe and how not to be, what a teacher! Rather than repel him, I embrace him and send him love so that he can realise the beauty and truth of inclusiveness and tolerance and acceptance of all in a peaceful way.

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overthefalls Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:58am

Wise words, Dave the Rave. However, it’s still scary that religious bigotry is now legally enshrined.

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frog Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 9:41am
davetherave wrote:

I remember when I found god. I had this really itchy nose. So I started scratching it. Then I had this overwhelming feeling that there was something more going on and I felt this incredible amazing sensation in my nose. It just seemed like a totally new, a totally all encompassing experience. It shook me to my core and I cried out, what the fucks going on, and a voice within, a voice that knew, vibrated, fuck nose.

Never tried coke myself.

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chook Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 12:44pm
blindboy wrote:

brutus name one biological structure or system that you believe could not have evolved by natural processes.

Aren't there one of two things that create issues for neo-Darwinianism and natural selection? The eye of some animal? I seem to remember Stephen Jay Gould discussing them. I can't remember how or if they are considered resolved. A quick search doesn't turn anything up.

Not that this helps the argument from design for the existence of God. The dilemma still applies.

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blindboy Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 1:01pm

chook, the various evolutionary stages of the eye, from light sensitive nerve endings, all the way through to the human eye, can be found in living creatures. From memory Gould went into it in great detail in one of his books. Support for creationism and intelligent design has dropped off rapidly over recent years as the evidence for evolution has become so strong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

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davetherave Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 2:23pm

Nice one frog. Either have I actually, although with all this rain about I am considering micro dosing with mushies to see if it can help the neck, shoulder and arm pain.
Any words of wisdom from any mushie medics?

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overthefalls Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 2:28pm

Start low and go slow!

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udo Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 2:50pm

Paul Stamets - Mushroom man



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brutus Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 4:32pm

gsco....Mere Christianity is really thought provoking , not sure if you know C S Lewis was an atheist for 40 years , also had a friend called J.R.Tolken chirsitian also.....not sure if you would like a true story about an investigative journalist who set out to prove there was no Jesus etc.....Lee Strobel , a Case for Christ......

I find it always interesting to read how people were ( I was ) anti-religion/Christianity , but after confronting the facts and a belief that there has to be something more to life than just entertaining ourselves , and that there is a deeper meaning.

with Einstein , I can't remember where but I know there were questions and doubts about his theory of relativity....but I do like Einstein's definition of insanity/stupidity....making the same mistake over and over again , and expecting a different outcome!

Harry B on reflection had an enormous affect on the laymans understanding of Nature...dare I say it ....he was our Richard Attenborough ......

gsco wrote:

Brutus, the book you recommended looks interesting. I just paid a whopping $12 for the Amazon Kindle, so will read it over time. I once read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis, a while ago now, and found it interesting and insightful.

I've read a bit of philosophy and history and am comfortable in my understanding of the very large impact Christianity has had on Western civilisation and culture. I immediately think of scholasticism and its impact on the development of the Western university system, and the impressive architecture of the great universities.

It may not be accurate to say Einstein's theory has been disproved. Most of its predictions are strikingly accurate and a lot of technology wouldn't work very well without it. Regarding dark matter/energy, it's entirely possible that we humans just don't yet have the apparatus to detect it. But general relativity is proving to be annoyingly stubborn to (i) reconcile with quantum theory and (ii) permit combining gravity with the other fundamental forces of nature into one general mathematical framework. Both these points are very far from ideal.

Harry Butler looks like he was a pretty cool dude.

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bonza Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 5:11pm
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Roadkill Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 6:40pm
bonza wrote:

https://www.swellnet.com/comment/709977#comment-709977

A religious burden of proof……does not exist.

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gsco Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:07pm

I think it's entirely ok to believe in something purely upon the basis of faith. I'm not sure if reason, evidence, proof, logical argument, etc, is basis upon which people are religious. It's due to not having proof or evidence that people believe in a religion.

As I understand it, religious faith is a faith. It's also about one's individual relationship to a religion and living a certain way of life with passion and commitment because doing so is personally meaningful to oneself.

Actually, I could imagine that believing something based on faith, without the burden or duty of proof or evidence, could be quite liberating.

I can't help but keep thinking back to the philosophy of Søren Kierkegaard.

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bonza Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:54pm

“ Actually, I could imagine that believing something based on faith, without the burden or duty of proof or evidence, could be quite liberating.”

Exactly.

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Roadkill Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 7:59pm

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want…if they get peace and joy and happiness from their beliefs, great. However great the belief is, it is still not real if there is no proof.

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Roadkill Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 8:12pm
gsco wrote:

I think it's entirely ok to believe in something purely upon the basis of faith. I'm not sure if reason, evidence, proof, logical argument, etc, is basis upon which people are religious. It's due to not having proof or evidence that people believe in a religion.

As I understand it, religious faith is a faith. It's also about one's individual relationship to a religion and living a certain way of life with passion and commitment because doing so is personally meaningful to oneself.

Actually, I could imagine that believing something based on faith, without the burden or duty of proof or evidence, could be quite liberating.

I can't help but keep thinking back to the philosophy of Søren Kierkegaard.

“. It's also about one's individual relationship to a religion and living a certain way of life with passion and commitment “ I would be happy if people stuck to this, they don’t.

Unfortunately, it is also about pushing their religious morals on non believers, about spreading the word to people who don’t want it. It is about condemning people for their beliefs and the lifestyle the choose and more.

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bonza Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 8:23pm

Not always RK.

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blindboy Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 8:34pm

Scotland's Sacred Islands is a good watch for the connection between spirituality and place

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views from the ... Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021 at 10:09pm

Faith- mmmm - Liberating enough to allow oneself to commit crime in the belief you are on the chosen path.

Clearly it has plenty of upside too for those who use it positively.

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brutus Thursday, 25 Nov 2021 at 8:01am
blindboy wrote:

Scotland's Sacred Islands is a good watch for the connection between spirituality and place

So Is Australia , when you consider our First Nations connection between place and spirituality....it's what binds them to their culture!

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blindboy Thursday, 25 Nov 2021 at 9:26am

It's a show on SBS brutus and I was struck by the similarity to indigenous spirituality.

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brutus Thursday, 25 Nov 2021 at 4:35pm
blindboy wrote:

It's a show on SBS brutus and I was struck by the similarity to indigenous spirituality.

brings up an interesting question , are there any Indigenous cultures that don't have a spiritual connection to country?

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blindboy Thursday, 25 Nov 2021 at 5:49pm

The Morrison government continues its efforts to gather votes from every extremist group in the country. They have already made a big push for the anti-vaxxers, the climate deniers and various other segments of the freedumb coalition. Now they make their play for those who think their religion gives them the right to discriminate against those who do not fit their ignorant binary view of sexuality. Don’t worry about the mental health of the most vulnerable young people in the country. Give the bigots the right to put the boot in! The despicables sink to a new low.

“However, the third draft of the Bill has watered this down. It now simply says that conduct covered by the bill “may” still be discriminatory under the Sex Discrimination Act. The subtle change from “does not” to “may” makes a big difference, and puts LGBTQ+ teachers and students at risk.
And because of the controversial “statement of belief” provisions in the bill, religious schools are largely free to tell trans students that their gender identity is against the laws of God, or to tell lesbian parents they are evil for depriving their child of a father. Even if other discrimination laws ban such statements being made, this bill overrides them.”
https://theconversation.com/schools-can-still-expel-lgbtq-kids-the-relig...

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bonza Thursday, 25 Nov 2021 at 8:02pm

Priorities huh. Well I guess with a honest mob on the hill a best practise federal ICAC isn’t necessary after all.

Porter will be proud. What a legacy.