All Things Religion Thread

"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." - Jesus Christ (Luke 13:3,5)
https://www.godhatesfags.com/

Think I’ll stick with the Easter Bunny as my saviour.

Hey Brutus, what do you mean when you say that “Buddhism is a cop out”?

overthefalls wrote:

Hey Brutus, what do you mean when you say that “Buddhism is a cop out”?

blindboy wrote:
Brutus Buddhism is generally classed as a religion as it believes in reincarnation and supernatural entities that can aid on the path to enlightenment. It also has the great asset of not being concerned much about excluding other belief systems but concentrates on progress towards enlightenment via whatever works for you.
To be honest I find the arrogance of some christians hard to deal with. I mean someone knocks on my door to tell me that everything I believe, after a large amount of study and significant life experience, is wrong. It is pretty tempting to explain, very briefly, why I find their attitude objectionable but why bother? So I just tell them we are Buddhists.

So let me get this right ..reincarnation was a Hindu idea adopted by Buddha , so that if you are a good person you will get reborn as one of the following ...
1) Heavenly realm or God realm ( Deva)
2) Demi-God realm (Asura)
3) Human Realm
4) Animal realm
5) 5 Hungry ghost realm
6) Hell realm
So these 6 realms are what govern your life...?

You find it arrogant that someone knocks on your door to preach the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ , OK fine with that you have a choice.....but not sure Buddhism is a really good answer to Christianity....as there a heavenly realm to aspire to , or hell....and all the in between options.....but no Entity that created the heavens or Hell........wow now I see why Christians dismiss Buddhism!

Personally until BB posted about Buddhism, I had only heard second hand ...how Buddha never intended his teachings to become a religion and since then ...??

I am not going to go very far into buddhism as I am not a buddhist. My only comment is that those who I have met through my wife including priests at her temple are not much interested in the supernatural. Belief in it is optional and most view it as metaphor rather than reality.
Personally I am a hard materialist and do not believe in supernatural entities or phenomena. I am always surprised that people need to believe in such things, I mean, Earth and the universe are not awesome enough? The privilege of being a sentient being is not enough?
More importantly I regard the idea that humans have some supernatural existence beyond their body as profoundly dangerous and responsible for many of our environmental problems. I also think it actually diminishes our humanity as it sets us apart from nature when we are in fact totally embedded in it and dependant on it for every aspect of our existence. I accept that others see things differently and am comfortable with their views up to the point that they claim absolute truth or seek to impose their morality on others.

Take five minutes one evening and watch Jimmy Swaggart in tv. Channel 80 something.

Look carefully at the audience, particularly their eyes. Vacant, staring, almost lobotomised.

Some see faith. In what?

Then listen to the words. Lots and lots on sin creating guilt and a sense of failure to behave and think perfectly.

Often they talk about god's grace flowing through you like a hose making for health, wealth and happiness.

However, there is a big BUT.

If you sin just a little bit in thought and action the flow of grace is cut off. So all your problems are your fault.

Sick, no job, death in the family, divorce etc. ?

Well you stuffed up.

You checked an attractive girl at the supermarket and imagined "naughty" acts or doubted for a moment some religious leader or bible teaching Oooops you sinned again and will suffer.

Those vacant eyes have no choice but to be so - to suspend rational thought or natural impulses or else good fortune that is hanging by a thread will be cut away by the "all loving god". Censor your thought and words at all times to avoid sin.

Maybe they can repent and for a week or two and get gods grace back. Until the next stray thought cuts it off again. What a roller-coaster of guilt, fear and mind control.

Not every church but many and an undercurrent in all.

Want some of that in your life?

You forgot about the money side of it. "Donate now, repent your sins and you will be saved!" All these preachers are incredibly wealthy

Buddhism teaches not to ask for that which is not freely given. It also has much to say about attachment being the source of all suffering.

So why are you here Brutus? Clearly noone is buying your message so is it flagellation you’re attached to? Surely there are better ways to do your penance on earth.

“ there seems to be intolerance towards Christianity as an archaic belief”

Brutus it’s a shame that you’re still playing the victim role.
As a general rule no one cares about your belief system.
The problem starts when that system is so profoundly out of step with modern scientific and liberal values.
If you want to say that being gay is against God‘s will or it’s an anomaly then you can expect a backlash.
If fundamentalists want to say that God created the earth and climate change is an act of God then again those people can expect a backlash.

Please have some broader awareness of exactly what is attracting this criticism of aspects of your religion.

And as for not tolerating intolerance haven’t we already been over this?

Brutus ;)

When exactly did jesus intend for his teachings to become a ‘religion’ ? ;);)
And how have your emmaus walk intentions materialised ?…

Seems like you may have settled on being self appointed Internet forum preacher for now ;)
And, before you start screaming persecution and the like, maybe attempt to expand your understanding of yourself before you jump on the ‘I not only know shit bout jesus etc but also other religions and religious figures’ train!
Go do a vipassana course for example ;)
Anyone of any belief system, gender, race or sexual orientation can attend.
It’s free and they feed and house you…

10 days of your life brutus ;)
(I’m sure you’re already scratching for excuses or ‘practical responsibility’ clauses to find a way to never go)…

You can then return here to your lil home in the swellnet forum and continue sharing your boundless wisdom…

But also…

‘Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent’ ;);)

I know a couple of lovely Christian friends who often encourage their brethren to attend… more than one course even ;)

I reckon you may get a few valuable insights if you wish to step outside your bubble;) Who knows… jesus may already be there waiting for you ;);)

Just a suggestion though. You seem to be on quite a fact finding / evidence based pursuit and so sure of schooling others - especially ‘seculars’ ;);)
Are you just fooling yourself and unconsciously shoring up the beliefs and doctrine you have hand picked in order to facilitate being a bit of a pretender ;);)

Do you really know who you are brutus ? let alone jesus ;);) Do you know all the facts about you? I dare to say maybe not. Do you wish to expand your understanding of yourself and your relationship to christ ? I dare say yes.

You might return after such an experience (learning to meditate using a method purportedly to have originated from z buddhaaaaaa) and be able to provide a purer or, maybe even, a more effective offering of ‘all things religion’ instead of ‘not much things religion at all - just christian confusion and assumptions about all things non christian ;);)

I mean you are offering all sorts of answers and assumptions and conclusions here… why not accelerate your ability to erase some ignorance and attempt to become a more productive and fruitful contributor here and, more importantly, in all facets of your life?
Is it possible?… Necessary? ;);)

Hey …
waddya say…
dear ol brutay ;)

Brutus certainly lives the Christian persecution complex.

“ there seems to be intolerance towards Christianity as an archaic belief” …probably because it is. A stone age set of rules and waffle as written down by a bunch of goat herders and people looking to control the masses.

Well put JellyF.
https://www.legalnomads.com/vipassana-meditation/

how the fark did you get i'm a victim?

Modern scientific and liberal values ......and when you say no-one cares about your belief system , all I can do is chuckle and make the point that here on the Secular SN forums , yeah I am the minority ...but out there in the real world you are the minority ....so I have no problem coming on here and getting abused for my faith and beliefs....as no-one on here has offered anything tangible to the contrary....even BB has admitted that he has ,"Personally I am a hard materialist and do not believe in supernatural entities or phenomena"....that's fine not sure but you probably have the same experience/
I have had supernatural experiences.......so you guys keep bleating on about how I said gays are physiologically different .....even though I treat gay people the same as al of you guys think you do!
My actions over the years in helping gay people , and still do today...as I said have some very good friends who are gay both male and female....
Coming onto SN is a real eye opener , as I realize how secular it is here and the more abuse/questions ....bring it on.....I will pray for you all!!

AndyM wrote:

“ there seems to be intolerance towards Christianity as an archaic belief”

Brutus it’s a shame that you’re still playing the victim role.
As a general rule no one cares about your belief system.
The problem starts when that system is so profoundly out of step with modern scientific and liberal values.
If you want to say that being gay is against God‘s will or it’s an anomaly then you can expect a backlash.
If fundamentalists want to say that God created the earth and climate change is an act of God then again those people can expect a backlash.

Please have some broader awareness of exactly what is attracting this criticism of aspects of your religion.

And as for not tolerating intolerance haven’t we already been over this?

haha Jelly....lota stuff to answer .....Jesus is the son of God , his teachings became the New testament , which compliments the old testament ...
I am not an internet Preacher, it's because you guys keep asking questions in the hope of destroying my faith.
Pretty hard to discuss a subject when you readily admit that you don't know much about Jesus/religions .....like talking to an Eskimo about the sahara desert....
It's obvious that you are trolling me by saying I don't contribute here and maybe meditation could help.....yeah a blank mind should do wonders..works for the seculars...
So what do you believe in...??

Jelly Flater wrote:

Brutus ;)

When exactly did jesus intend for his teachings to become a ‘religion’ ? ;);)
And how have your emmaus walk intentions materialised ?…

Seems like you may have settled on being self appointed Internet forum preacher for now ;)
And, before you start screaming persecution and the like, maybe attempt to expand your understanding of yourself before you jump on the ‘I not only know shit bout jesus etc but also other religions and religious figures’ train!
Go do a vipassana course for example ;)
Anyone of any belief system, gender, race or sexual orientation can attend.
It’s free and they feed and house you…

10 days of your life brutus ;)
(I’m sure you’re already scratching for excuses or ‘practical responsibility’ clauses to find a way to never go)…

You can then return here to your lil home in the swellnet forum and continue sharing your boundless wisdom…

But also…

‘Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent’ ;);)

I know a couple of lovely Christian friends who often encourage their brethren to attend… more than one course even ;)

I reckon you may get a few valuable insights if you wish to step outside your bubble;) Who knows… jesus may already be there waiting for you ;);)

Just a suggestion though. You seem to be on quite a fact finding / evidence based pursuit and so sure of schooling others - especially ‘seculars’ ;);)
Are you just fooling yourself and unconsciously shoring up the beliefs and doctrine you have hand picked in order to facilitate being a bit of a pretender ;);)

Do you really know who you are brutus ? let alone jesus ;);) Do you know all the facts about you? I dare to say maybe not. Do you wish to expand your understanding of yourself and your relationship to christ ? I dare say yes.

You might return after such an experience (learning to meditate using a method purportedly to have originated from z buddhaaaaaa) and be able to provide a purer or, maybe even, a more effective offering of ‘all things religion’ instead of ‘not much things religion at all - just christian confusion and assumptions about all things non christian ;);)

I mean you are offering all sorts of answers and assumptions and conclusions here… why not accelerate your ability to erase some ignorance and attempt to become a more productive and fruitful contributor here and, more importantly, in all facets of your life?
Is it possible?… Necessary? ;);)

Hey …
waddya say…
dear ol brutay ;)

brutus I gave a very clear alternative: there is nothing beyond nature. For me, and many others, true spirituality is in recognising that and working towards a culture less damaging to the systems that support us. The idea of an eternal idyllic existence out there in some supernatural space is problematic because it undermines our responsibility to preserve human life on this planet. What does it matter how we treat nature when god plans to destroy it anyway?

“How the fark did you get i'm a victim?”

It’s probably because you keep saying “stop picking on me”.

And the first half of that second paragraph makes very little sense.

AndyM wrote:

“How the fark did you get i'm a victim?”

It’s probably because you keep saying “stop picking on me”.

And the first half of that second paragraph makes very little sense.

Just about to say the same thing basically.

The 10 posts previous where the victim card has been shown…gives a clear indication.

OK GS...so does buddhism appeal to you?

I came on here quoting some scripture with Optimist...then the mob arrived demanding answers on all things Christian....no need for me to back off and run away...it's a secular mob, and some questions have actually taught me a lot as sometimes I will spend an hour or so checking and reading links etc....so I learn heaps from searching for answers and info...more please!!!

GuySmiley wrote:

Buddhism teaches not to ask for that which is not freely given. It also has much to say about attachment being the source of all suffering.

So why are you here Brutus? Clearly noone is buying your message so is it flagellation you’re attached to? Surely there are better ways to do your penance on earth.

haha Stop picking on me...where did you get that from.......what do you believe in....??

Keep the questions coming , this is therapy for me...so when I can't answer, I go and look for an answer....I really enjoy the learning process.......

Roadkill wrote:

AndyM wrote:

“How the fark did you get i'm a victim?”

It’s probably because you keep saying “stop picking on me”.

And the first half of that second paragraph makes very little sense.

Just about to say the same thing basically.

The 10 posts previous where the victim card has been shown…gives a clear indication.

AndyM wrote:

“How the fark did you get i'm a victim?”

It’s probably because you keep saying “stop picking on me”.

And the first half of that second paragraph makes very little sense.

which part and I will try and explain?

udo wrote:

Well put JellyF.
https://www.legalnomads.com/vipassana-meditation/

Hey Udo....nice link to those who need to face their fears and search for some meaning in their life...

I was just thinking about ...was it you quite a few years ago who made a joke about splitting altar boys , and I was pretty pissed of at the time?

brutus wrote:

haha Stop picking on me...where did you get that from.......what do you believe in....??

Keep the questions coming , this is therapy for me...so when I can't answer, I go and look for an answer....I really enjoy the learning process.......

Roadkill wrote:

AndyM wrote:

“How the fark did you get i'm a victim?”

It’s probably because you keep saying “stop picking on me”.

And the first half of that second paragraph makes very little sense.

Just about to say the same thing basically.

The 10 posts previous where the victim card has been shown…gives a clear indication.

Btw…no one has abused you for being a christian, or believing in made up beings. It’s the interpretation and bigoted semantics based off christianity and/or your beliefs that people have called you out on.

Personally, I think if you get peace or strength from your beliefs….good luck to you.

I think brutus does see himself as a bit of a preacher that needs to bring the word of god to the non believers.

blindboy wrote:

brutus I gave a very clear alternative: there is nothing beyond nature. For me, and many others, true spirituality is in recognising that and working towards a culture less damaging to the systems that support us. The idea of an eternal idyllic existence out there in some supernatural space is problematic because it undermines our responsibility to preserve human life on this planet. What does it matter how we treat nature when god plans to destroy it anyway?

Once again the difference is between you and me is life experiences where I have had numerous supernatural experiences , a lot of near death experiences.....and a couple of miracles.....in beating the odds against dying.....so there was a question always there which I have been looking for the better part of my life.
The one thing I have learnt and feel very strongly about is the existence of a spirit world , which has led to a belief in God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit as there is so much logical proof...
I start the morning with "Verse of the day" from the online You Version Bible app ( More than 500m downloads)...todays is a classic , " Bless those who curse you , pray for those who hurt you."......see any threats there?

brutus wrote:

udo wrote:

Well put JellyF.
https://www.legalnomads.com/vipassana-meditation/

Hey Udo....nice link to those who need to face their fears and search for some meaning in their life...

I was just thinking about ...was it you quite a few years ago who made a joke about splitting altar boys , and I was pretty pissed of at the time?

Sure was me- August 2015 and by Christ did you let loose with your Red wine fuelled reply...A Vile Disgusting spray...which i screenshot.

Roadkill wrote:

I think brutus does see himself as a bit of a preacher that needs to bring the word of god to the non believers.

not at all , as Preachers are so far ahead of me with their knowledge.....I actually consult a couple of friends when I get stuck....RK you keep asking me questions....that's why I keep answering, LOL!

udo wrote:

brutus wrote:

udo wrote:

Well put JellyF.
https://www.legalnomads.com/vipassana-meditation/

Hey Udo....nice link to those who need to face their fears and search for some meaning in their life...

I was just thinking about ...was it you quite a few years ago who made a joke about splitting altar boys , and I was pretty pissed of at the time?

Sure was me- August 2015 and by Christ did you let loose with your Red wine fuelled reply...A Vile Disgusting spray...which i screenshot.

could you repost what I wrote to you ??

No
No way could i / would i repost that on here ...best let that go Brutus
Put it down to full of piss and bad manners.

RK I have tried to do my best in answering , but I am no preacher...still learning shitloads......it's hard to discuss because I know a little about Christianity , but the people I keep answering have very little knowledge on the subject .....so it's like asking an Eskimo , what's the Sahara desert like?

Roadkill wrote:

brutus wrote:

haha Stop picking on me...where did you get that from.......what do you believe in....??

Keep the questions coming , this is therapy for me...so when I can't answer, I go and look for an answer....I really enjoy the learning process.......

Roadkill wrote:

AndyM wrote:

“How the fark did you get i'm a victim?”

It’s probably because you keep saying “stop picking on me”.

And the first half of that second paragraph makes very little sense.

Just about to say the same thing basically.

The 10 posts previous where the victim card has been shown…gives a clear indication.

Btw…no one has abused you for being a christian, or believing in made up beings. It’s the interpretation and bigoted semantics based off christianity and/or your beliefs that people have called you out on.

Personally, I think if you get peace or strength from your beliefs….good luck to you.

Haha brutus ;)
Keep searching…

‘I have had supernatural experiences’ (numerous)
‘A lot of near death experiences’
‘… and a couple of miracles’

Yadda yadda ;)
It is very repetitive…
Who are you really trying to convince ?

Tell us tho ;)
What’s all that got to do with anything?
Really.

Are you one of the chosen ones?
Are you a tad deluded ?

And this is therapy for you. Wow.

Well I guess we know why you are on here and I guess we can all feel a lil better knowing we are being good christians to you ;)

Nobody curses you but yourself ;)
Stop pretending.
Be honest ;)

udo wrote:

No
No way could i / would i repost that on here ...best let that go Brutus.

you could send me the link as it's always prayed on my mind (pardon the pun) as there was a very sad story that I had been involved with which might explain my anger and as you put it ,vile!

brutus there is no logical proof of the supernatural. There are arguments but I find them unconvincing. The problem with miracles is that there is zero evidence, beyond the assertions of those who claim to have witnessed them. I have my reasons for disbelieving as you have yours for believing.

yada yada yada , now there's some constructive comments.

I don't have to convince anyone , as I am public figure and I have spoken in public a lot about my experiences....so I am an open book on a lot of personal subjects and I am aware that comments I make here can be used in any public forum etc ...

Not Therapy , not pretending.....those are your words and conclusions.....

Jelly Flater wrote:

Haha brutus ;)
Keep searching…

‘I have had supernatural experiences’ (numerous)
‘A lot of near death experiences’
‘… and a couple of miracles’

Yadda yadda ;)
It is very repetitive…
Who are you really trying to convince ?

Tell us tho ;)
What’s all that got to do with anything?
Really.

Are you one of the chosen ones?
Are you a tad deluded ?

And this is therapy for you. Wow.

Well I guess we know why you are on here and I guess we can all feel a lil better knowing we are being good christians to you ;)

Nobody curses you but yourself ;)
Stop pretending.
Be honest ;)

blindboy wrote:

brutus there is no logical proof of the supernatural. There are arguments but I find them unconvincing. The problem with miracles is that there is zero evidence, beyond the assertions of those who claim to have witnessed them. I have my reasons for disbelieving as you have yours for believing.

I would go into this further , but it's personal and after the serving Optimist got with his first hand story .....the SN mob would not be able to help themselves in sinking the boot in......

‘Not Therapy , not pretending.....those are your words and conclusions.....’

Ummmm…
Observations actually ;)
And YOU said this was therapy..,

This is you - you said this: (go check)
‘Keep the questions coming , this is therapy for me...’

Are you all there ? ;);)

So … yeah …
Keep pretending.
… or … Be honest ;)

“ For those with deep belief in a creator, we have a soul that is unique to the human body. For secular humanist thinkers, we have soul-like mental powers that are unique to the human brain. Each is a reason for why humans aren’t truly animals. At least, not in any crucial way.”

The point being that the reality of our animal nature is denied as much in secular thinking as in religion. And by doing so we distort who we really are.

“For those world views loosely clumped together under the term “animism,” there’s less of a gap to justify…. Humans simply possess a share in a sacred cosmos. There are still traces of this original numinous landscape. It’s there in a handful of hunter-gatherer cultures and faintly in polytheistic world views. But as a rule, it doesn’t seem to have survived the transition into large agricultural societies.”

This is basically my view. It is the cosmos that is sacred….and we are an integral part of it. Inseparable from everything else. We are animals that evolved extraordinary talents on a planet of breath taking beauty and diversity. For me the truth is constantly there before us. And this view is as much a challenge to economics, science and politics as it is to religion. Of the three only science seeks to find the truth, but even science is cold blooded and detached. As for the other two they are no more than managerial skills frequently perverted for profit.

Quotes from
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2021/12/02/the-minds-body-problem/

“as no-one on here has offered anything tangible to the contrary....”

This quote is beyond hilarious.

So, no one has offered anything TANGIBLE to the contrary….something tangible to….god and jesus and coming back from the dead and turning water into wine and virgin births? Ha ha ha ha.

If brutus is a public figure…who is brutus?

@Brutus

"Modern scientific and liberal values"

Why did you type this and what is it referring to?

"no-one on here has offered anything tangible to the contrary"

Something contrary to your belief system which is also tangible?
In what context?
What are you referring to?

I've already shown you how same-sex relationships are anything but anomalies.
How fundamental are your beliefs?
Do you need proof that the earth was not created in seven days?
BTW large parts of your belief system are anything but tangible so it seems odd that you would ask for something which can be defined as such.

GuySmiley wrote:

Buddhism teaches not to ask for that which is not freely given. It also has much to say about attachment being the source of all suffering.

So why are you here Brutus? Clearly noone is buying your message so is it flagellation you’re attached to? Surely there are better ways to do your penance on earth.

Maybe. But the dahli lama and Buddhism also practise hate speech and believe in hateful things.

As has been posted earlier. Here’s a other one.

“the Dalai Lama was once asked about his views on homosexuality:

“They want me to condone homosexuality. But I am a Buddhist and, for a Buddhist, a relationship between two men is wrong. Some sexual conduct in marriage is also wrong.
Dalai Lama”

So he”s massive hurtful prick who believes in stupid shit.

Bonza, I wouldn’t call any holy or spiritual person a hurtful prick unless there was good reason beyond their doctrine eg pedophilia. But, you are questioning their teachings with your statements which is something Buddhist tell all people to actively do. Further, unlike any other religion or spiritual belief that I am aware of Buddhism requires its followers to question the teachings of individual leaders/monks. Fancy that a spiritual belief system that encourages and not stymies debate!!

But that’s what many arecalling Brutus and optimist. There is no difference. When pressed on the question of gay sex Brutus and optimist responded according to their faith. When the Dali Lahmi was questioned and pressed on the matter his response was exactly the same.

So if Brutus and optimist engage in hurtful hateful messages about gay sex thus does the dahli lama and anyone else who practises Buddhism.

from: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/dalai-lama-voices-support-gay-marriag...

see also

Bonza I think you need to carefully reread my last couple of posts, I think you have misinterpreted what I’ve said.

Yes he did say that. But you are also aware gsco of his other statements on gay sex. So which is true? Has he changed his mind?

GuySmiley wrote:

Bonza I think you need to carefully reread my last couple of posts, I think you have misinterpreted what I’ve said.

Maybe I have. But my point remains. If optimist and Brutus are homophobes so is any Buddhist.

I think you will find the context of the recent discussion on homosexuality with optimist and brutus was the infallibility of the word of their one true god i.e. their god no other is incapable of ever being wrong.

Debate has raged over religion for millennia but Christianity has been debunked by swellnet contributors in little over a week. Next...

Yes I am, and in response I'd say two things:

(i) He may certainly have softened his stance in general over the years.

(ii) But his "original" comments were mostly directed towards other practicing Buddhists and their practice of Buddhism.

But these original comments also upset some practicing gay Buddhists. The softening of his stance over the years were particularly in response to this.

In order to understand and "process in one's own mind" this softening (and seemingly backflipping) of stance, it would be useful to understand a bit of Buddhist history.

Buddhism is a very diverse and "colourful" practice that has a very strong tradition and history of being flexible, open and adaptive to the current times, cultures and societies in which it finds itself. The above backflipping is just part of this long tradition of merging its core teaching with the times.

A good recent example of this evolution, and a great entry point to learn some more, is the below first book in a five-part series written by Thubten Chodron, a very popular western practitioner. The series presents the path of the Gelug tradition of Tibetan Buddhism (the Dalai Lama's) to a western audience. There's actually some "spectacular backflipping" going on in there compared to previous Buddhist schools and practices. But the core teachings and message remains the same in all the flavours of Buddhism all throughout history.

I found their comments on gay sex offensive and dumb much as I found the dahli lama who represents Buddhism who said exactly the same thing when pressed. But I also saw love and acceptance in their comments much as I have seen n the dahli lama.

“Buddhism is a very diverse and "colourful" practice that has a very strong tradition and history of being flexible, open and adaptive to the current times, cultures and societies in which it finds itself. “

So is Christianity. We now have gay preachers.