All Things Religion Thread
As clear as mud in relation to the main point but from that I can only assume you are all good with burning women who offend ..... as dictated in the book of Leviticus.
BB it'd be weak to give in to every new bit of wokeness such as thinking that burning women is a bad idea.
Stand your ground son!
AndyM wrote:BB it'd be weak to give in to every new bit of wokeness such as thinking that burning women is a bad idea.
Stand your ground son!
.... and what about blasphemy?
https://m.
The easiest way to create an atheist is to teach him the bible word for word.
Another bible prophecy that seems more accurate than many.
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's foes will be members of one's own household"
More good news from the book ...
frog wrote:Another bible prophecy that seems more accurate than many.
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's foes will be members of one's own household"
More good news from the book ...
Sounds like the fella foresaw hyper-individualism and social media.
Another else see Brian Cox in his new series Universe that started on ABC TV last night?
..... calling our sun our god given all the chemical elements needed for life on earth have come from it and the other stars in the universe.
No good. The sun has no view on sin, fear or guilt.
Who is going to watch and punish for all that naughty stuff and misdirected jizz if you just worship the sun?
I'd rather believe the universe is God than the sun is god....The universe controls everything. laws of physics etc...even so its all a load of shit
frog wrote:No good. The sun has no view on sin, fear or guilt.
Who is going to watch and punish for all that naughty stuff and misdirected jizz if you just worship the sun?
Don't really know - but I think the Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians might have once thought otherwise. And if you listen to Stephen Fry tell it, there was always plenty of jizz and naughty stuff involved.
please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
brutus wrote:please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
Well, we also shouldn't judge christians by the actions of a couple of christians in this thread? Both have shown deep indoctrinated bigotry and a selfish know it all attitude. Pretty poor quality people really.
haha RK ,unsubstantiated insults from you is like mana from Heaven, thank you and have a blessed Sunday!
Roadkill wrote:brutus wrote:please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
Well, we also shouldn't judge christians by the actions of a couple of christians in this thread? Both have shown deep indoctrinated bigotry and a selfish know it all attitude. Pretty poor quality people really.
brutus wrote:haha RK ,unsubstantiated insults from you is like mana from Heaven, thank you and have a blessed Sunday!
Roadkill wrote:brutus wrote:please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
Well, we also shouldn't judge christians by the actions of a couple of christians in this thread? Both have shown deep indoctrinated bigotry and a selfish know it all attitude. Pretty poor quality people really.
That isn’t an insult…just a factual comment based off what you have posted. I guess the truth hurts so best to try and brush it off.
so me being a low quality person is a fact for you, based on your very limited knowledge of the Bible and myself...very judgmental and ignorance in your case is a bliss !!
Roadkill wrote:brutus wrote:haha RK ,unsubstantiated insults from you is like mana from Heaven, thank you and have a blessed Sunday!
Roadkill wrote:brutus wrote:please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
Well, we also shouldn't judge christians by the actions of a couple of christians in this thread? Both have shown deep indoctrinated bigotry and a selfish know it all attitude. Pretty poor quality people really.
That isn’t an insult…just a factual comment based off what you have posted. I guess the truth hurts so best to try and brush it off.
brutus wrote:so me being a low quality person is a fact for you, based on your very limited knowledge of the Bible and myself...very judgmental and ignorance in your case is a bliss !!
Roadkill wrote:brutus wrote:haha RK ,unsubstantiated insults from you is like mana from Heaven, thank you and have a blessed Sunday!
Roadkill wrote:brutus wrote:please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
Well, we also shouldn't judge christians by the actions of a couple of christians in this thread? Both have shown deep indoctrinated bigotry and a selfish know it all attitude. Pretty poor quality people really.
That isn’t an insult…just a factual comment based off what you have posted. I guess the truth hurts so best to try and brush it off.
I don’t have to know the bible to know they type of person you are.
I have read what you say about people…that is all I need, to know what you are.
brutus wrote:please don't judge true Christians by the actions of a couple of self absorbed right wing people claiming to be Christians!
"Lee Smit - the mother of Monica Smit, the founder of right-wing lobby group Re-ignite Democracy which has teamed up Craig Kelly to promote Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party, held a one-minute prayer with the crowd.
She addressed the crowd on behalf of her daughter, who is unable to attend protests due to her bail conditions over charges of incitement from a protest earlier this year.
Ms Smit called on “Christians here to unite” against “communists”, and said the numbers seen on the streets in Melbourne today were her daughter’s “vision and dream”.
I think you will find world wide the majority of Christians are conservative, same deal with muslims, can you really be a true christian and not be a conservative?
BTW. Never heard of that group "Re-ignite Democracy" but going off their website https://www.reignitedemocracyaustralia.com.au/about/
Their goals seem non political in theory, they claim to be happy to work with any political party and are neither pro or anti vax, just pro choice, which is fair enough.
Their social media instagram page https://www.instagram.com/reignitedemocracyaustralia/
is maybe more controversial but its still not anti vax as such it is more pro choice, but off course is going to attract those against vaccines etc as most of us don't really care to much about it all, its only really now that anti vaxers/anti lockdown crowd and many pro vax/full vaxed people are coming together and just going okay enough is enough and restarting to have concerns on things like Dans bill.
BTW. if your a Christian you have to be anti communism, the two cant exist together.
Indo , Smits and co and a lot of the right wing/white evangelists....do not pass the Jesus test!
The problem with discussing the Jesus test....you have to know Jesus and his teachings .....which shows Jesus in todays terms be a lot more left than right.......When Trump was in full swing I used to go onto forums where there was a lot of debate about the USA's , wall/immigration policies/banning of muslims etc.......I would simply ask on the forum would Jesus have built a wall, or stopped immigration or tried to ban Muslims or...????
the result was always the same silence....then my question would be well if that's not Jesus's teaching who are you following ...ouch!
Smits and crew talk about "fundamental Democratic rights " and rights of individuals.....so not really Christian.......or the teachings of the Gospels!
blindboy wrote:As clear as mud in relation to the main point but from that I can only assume you are all good with burning women who offend ..... as dictated in the book of Leviticus.
BB had to get some advice about your question......so here goes....
the Old Testament 's law was what is called now the Old Covenant....which was the law pre-Jesus. To disobey your parents was a death penalty, times were pretty tuff then and so was the law. Leviticus was from these times and yes in those times the law was rad compared to today.
When Jesus came to Earth as the Son of God he created the New covenant through his teaching and actions....men and women are sinners , Jesus brought God's grace with him in that the law was relative to the sins of man.....
So Jesus preached , love your enemy, treat your neighbour as you would have them treat you, all men and women are equal , Blessed are the poor, the meek. and the righteous....Jesus only preached love for everybody....
Brutus, Hence why he came to remind humans that sin, was missing the mark, its actual meaning. Yeshua knew that humans were missing the mark because they related to the physical identity of individuation rather than seeing the all connectedness of the Living God. Take space for example, one can say that I am here, you are there and the space seperates us, whilst Yeshua would say, why not see that the space actually connects us!
Remember, all of us are the sons and daughters of the Living God, to deny this is a total misunderstanding of what is true and in fact is the biggest sin of all, you could say its an Original Sin!!!
Thanks brutus.
brutus wrote:Indo , Smits and co and a lot of the right wing/white evangelists....do not pass the Jesus test!
The problem with discussing the Jesus test....you have to know Jesus and his teachings .....which shows Jesus in todays terms be a lot more left than right.......When Trump was in full swing I used to go onto forums where there was a lot of debate about the USA's , wall/immigration policies/banning of muslims etc.......I would simply ask on the forum would Jesus have built a wall, or stopped immigration or tried to ban Muslims or...????
the result was always the same silence....then my question would be well if that's not Jesus's teaching who are you following ...ouch!Smits and crew talk about "fundamental Democratic rights " and rights of individuals.....so not really Christian.......or the teachings of the Gospels!
Jesus test?...never heard that one.
I do know there is verses in the bible saying something about not judging other and only God can judge or something along those lines.
This thread has convinced me is that It is so nice not to feel i have to have the "answers" to religious questions or have to convince anyone else about about the definitive "truth" of any belief system.
It is also quite freeing to not feel I have to search for "answers" or to have to shut out doubts and awkward facts to protect a fragile belief system.
+1
Embrace the uncertainty.
Wonder at the ambiguities.
Frog not sure you know , but the amount of people and resources that currently exist , just to study and interpret the Bible , is astounding.
there are so many people who are a lot smarter than you and I combined , that consecrate their lives to studying and understanding scripture..
Of course its a fragile belief system for you , as you have barely scratched the surface of the known facts...
That's why when I come on here and get a serious question like BB did....no I don' t have all the answers but I know people who do.....so for me it's very educational which strengthens belief and faith!
frog wrote:This thread has convinced me is that It is so nice not to feel i have to have the "answers" to religious questions or have to convince anyone else about about the definitive "truth" of any belief system.
It is also quite freeing to not feel I have to search for "answers" or to have to shut out doubts and awkward facts to protect a fragile belief system.
Stu as I have said to Frog...when you only scratch the surface yeah there is a lot of ambiguity.....but consider the ambiguities that our current society embraces as a modern way of life!
We elect politicians to take care of our lives , but we do not have any respect for the profession of being a politician. All Polls show we rate Politicians as one of the least respected in society...usually out performing a new category called Lobbyist's......Prostitutes and Psychics rate higher on the respect meter than Pollies!
We elect people to a profession we have no respect for , then the lobbyists go in and buy what they want and need to further their business interests...and as they are public Co;s , they have one mission...to make profit at any cost for the shareholders.
We have incredible scientists and academics who try to warn us of impending severe consequences from Climate change , and the never ending printing of money is becoming an economic burden...to the point now Inflation keeps climbing which means the have nots have a lot less spending power , slip into poverty......the only way to slow inflation is put interest rates up , but this would create an economic slowdown......currently the have nots are getting less and less.......and coupled with Climate change.....
the whole system to me looks like its wobbling to me on every level...to the point we are now seeing the rule of law being challenged and flaunted.....where is the hope in a secular future when we seem to be shitting in it's own nest ??
stunet wrote:+1
Embrace the uncertainty.
Wonder at the ambiguities.
brutus, humans are better at creating problems than solving them so in any system problems increase and ultimately lead to its collapse or replacement. Civilisations rise and fall. Are we at the point of collapse? Not as far as I can see. The economic problems are serious but not terminal, climate change will be increasingly disruptive but not likely to lead to collapse this century. Despite the moronic rantings of the China hawks a major war anytime soon seems unlikely. We have been staggering from crisis to crisis for a long time now, at least since the eruption of Toba 70 kya. Our limited genetic diversity suggests we survived a very narrow population bottleneck back there somewhere. We dodged a bullet with the Black Death and so on and so forth. I expect relative stability for the forseeable future.
God is watching Channel 2 and Prof Brian Cox from heaven tonight
brutus wrote:Stu as I have said to Frog...when you only scratch the surface yeah there is a lot of ambiguity.....but consider the ambiguities that our current society embraces as a modern way of life!
We elect politicians to take care of our lives , but we do not have any respect for the profession of being a politician. All Polls show we rate Politicians as one of the least respected in society...usually out performing a new category called Lobbyist's......Prostitutes and Psychics rate higher on the respect meter than Pollies!
We elect people to a profession we have no respect for , then the lobbyists go in and buy what they want and need to further their business interests...and as they are public Co;s , they have one mission...to make profit at any cost for the shareholders.
We have incredible scientists and academics who try to warn us of impending severe consequences from Climate change , and the never ending printing of money is becoming an economic burden...to the point now Inflation keeps climbing which means the have nots have a lot less spending power , slip into poverty......the only way to slow inflation is put interest rates up , but this would create an economic slowdown......currently the have nots are getting less and less.......and coupled with Climate change.....
the whole system to me looks like its wobbling to me on every level...to the point we are now seeing the rule of law being challenged and flaunted.....where is the hope in a secular future when we seem to be shitting in it's own nest ??stunet wrote:+1
Embrace the uncertainty.
Wonder at the ambiguities.
You could replace elect with promote, politician for priest, lobbyist for believers, business interests/profit for souls.
Try it, it reads the same.
Roadkill..".You could replace elect with promote, politician for priest, lobbyist for believers, business interests/profit for soul , Try it,it reads the same."
Roadkill not sure you understand the difference between the principles of Democracy , and how you all think you are free , where the people elect other people to represent them.....when you look at what I posted the System is very broken and seems to be spiralling down , with more dissent towards Governments and lobby groups , climate deterioration to where it's affecting all our lives now, economic instability ( How much more money can we print?).....so that's the physical world we all live in....
the Spritual World just doesn't work like your world....
I have a belief in a higher being and spiritual World that has hope.....meanwhile your world ....?????
So how did you go , and who is Brian Cox?
seaslug wrote:God is watching Channel 2 and Prof Brian Cox from heaven tonight
Brilliant, Brian is that real smart guy, who's God?
Not THE Brian??
Prof Brian Cox is one of those rare individuals who is not only the real deal as a high level particle physicist, which requires a substantial background in both mathematics and physics, but is also a popular author and presenter who interprets and translates fundamental science (particle physics and cosmology) in a way that is digestible for everyday people.
You can even see in his latest series Universe currently airing on the ABC (https://iview.abc.net.au/show/universe-with-brian-cox/) that he is incorporating into it the latest developments in our understanding of cosmology and the early formation of the universe.
Very highly recommended.
I'd be interested to hear the opinion of devout Christians about science's understanding of the building blocks of matter (particle physics) and of the universe (cosmology), maybe starting with the question:
Do you believe that the universe is 13.8 billon years old?
You read the book GSCO?
It's pretty good.
fr76 I've kept up with all his tv series but not his books.
Main reason is my Phd was in the main area of pure math (differential geometry) behind the standard models of both particle physics (gauge field theory) and cosmology (general relativity) so I tend to read the technical literature there.
But I recently had a look at his book The Quantum Universe and I think it's the same story as his tv series: beautifully written for a general audience while remaining technically correct and precise, and not oversimplifying, which isn't easy to achieve.
His original tv series Horizon partly inspired me at the start of my science journey.
Yes, Cox is the real deal. Decent musician too.
GSCO, personally (as a christian with a background in physics and maths) I believe the universe is old (though not eternal). A beginning circa 13.8 billion years ago seems most plausible based on the physics we currently know (entirely possible that a quantum theory of gravity, if that proves to be possible to construct, would see that number revised by some probably tiny amount).
Christians do differ on that - much of it comes down to how the first dozen or so chapters of Genesis are interpreted (literal history vs more figurative genres e.g. "mytho-history". Both camps broadly agree on what is taught r.e. relations between God, the world, and humanity.).
gsco, sounds like an interesting guy that has the gift of communication....anyone remember Harry Butler??
regarding your question about the building blocks of matter and the cosmology.....have you had a look at intelligent design theories??
Yes why not 13.8 billion years......
I think the big questions are where did all it come from...what was the starting point......the big Bang doesn't work for me but Intelligent design sure makes sense!
gsco wrote:Prof Brian Cox is one of those rare individuals who is not only the real deal as a high level particle physicist, which requires a substantial background in both mathematics and physics, but is also a popular author and presenter who interprets and translates fundamental science (particle physics and cosmology) in a way that is digestible for everyday people.
You can even see in his latest series Universe currently airing on the ABC (https://iview.abc.net.au/show/universe-with-brian-cox/) that he is incorporating into it the latest developments in our understanding of cosmology and the early formation of the universe.
Very highly recommended.
I'd be interested to hear the opinion of devout Christians about science's understanding of the building blocks of matter (particle physics) and of the universe (cosmology), maybe starting with the question:
Do you believe that the universe is 13.8 billon years old?
Brutus, intelligent design cannot be right.
Here's why -- we have dilemma. Either the(a) designer was designed or (b)the designed was not designed.
if a then we have a vicious regress and get no explanation of how the universe came to be..
if b, then the designer exists without being designed. So that means things can exist without a designer. So it's possible for the universe similarly to just exist without a designer.
Intelligent design is just the latest version of creationism as it implies god had a controlling hand on evolution. This is not not supported by the evidence. From my view it also seems to suggest a lack of faith in god's ability. I mean if he/she/it is all powerful, all knowing etc etc then there should be no problem setting up the big bang to deliver exactly what we have now......which from my understanding is pretty much a mainstream christian view these days.
chook, that's why the idea of God being the creator and designer ....of all!
That's the question man is always trying to find......where did it all start....so everytime the scientists drill down into the hows and whys....such as the God Particle.......there is nothing random , something or body designed it all!!
chook wrote:Brutus, intelligent design cannot be right.
Here's why -- we have dilemma. Either the(a) designer was designed or (b)the designed was not designed.
if a then we have a vicious regress and get no explanation of how the universe came to be..
if b, then the designer exists without being designed. So that means things can exist without a designer. So it's possible for the universe similarly to just exist without a designer.
Human evolution these days is recognised to not be a single threads with a clear destination in mind. It had many, many threads and deadends. Remarkable outcomes. But it is not a very intelligent design to create such a weird array of early humans.
Once human ancestors moved from the trees to scavenge for dead animals, the path was set for rapid evolution. Those who could spot vultures circling over the dead animal, track, read the landscape, move quickly (walk then run for long distances) to the carcass, scare away other predators (work as a group like hyenas but use tools cause they has no claws or big teeth), share the spoils with those who stayed back to care for the young etc. - the path to modern humans was set.
Using tools and active hunting was a logical next step to prosper.
Once these foundations were in place, natural selection strongly favoured intellect, technical manual skill, social cooperation, adaptability etc. In tough times - major droughts during ice ages, only the smartest of the smart survived. This sped things up.
A god was not needed to drive and design the dominos of change to lead to us. When did god stick a soul inside us - which year 1.5 million BC? 700,000 BC? bingo hominids got soul one day but the day before did not. Weird.
Some fascinating lectures on youtoob these days on what, when, why and how it all happened - too scary for god "experts" though - don't look - might prick your bubble.
BB , try reading this....https://intelligentdesign.org/whatisid/
IS INTELLIGENT DESIGN CREATIONISM?
No. The theory of intelligent design is simply an effort to empirically detect whether the “apparent design” in nature acknowledged by virtually all biologists is genuine design (the product of an intelligent cause) or is simply the product of an undirected process such as natural selection acting on random variations. Creationism typically starts with a religious text and tries to see how the findings of science can be reconciled to it. Intelligent design starts with the empirical evidence of nature and seeks to ascertain what inferences can be drawn from that evidence. Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design does not claim that modern biology can identify whether the intelligent cause detected through science is supernatural."
blindboy wrote:Intelligent design is just the latest version of creationism as it implies god had a controlling hand on evolution. This is not not supported by the evidence. From my view it also seems to suggest a lack of faith in god's ability. I mean if he/she/it is all powerful, all knowing etc etc then there should be no problem setting up the big bang to deliver exactly what we have now......which from my understanding is pretty much a mainstream christian view these days.
Brutus I hadn't heard of Harry Butler but he appears to be slightly before my time. I haven't looked into intelligent design theories either.
I personally think Christian (and other) religious beliefs can very peacefully sit beside scientific knowledge without conflict in the same human's mind. Science is just (in large part) mathematical models used to explain and describe observable phenomena of the world around us, whose predictions have not yet been falsified. But a lot of fundamental science is still on surprisingly shaky ground and doesn't necessarily contradict or invalidate religious beliefs.
For instance, the big bang theory also doesn't sit too well with me but for the reason that it's a prediction of Einstein's theory of general relativity under the assumption that the distribution of matter and energy in the universe is "uniform" in all directions. Under this assumption general relativity predicts that space-time should be expanding, starting at a single "space-time point" about 13.8 billion years ago. This expansion has been verified by observation but it's accelerating, which is not predicted by general relativity based on our measurement of the visible matter-energy density of the universe. This leads to ideas such as dark matter and dark energy, and leads some cosmologists to believe that general relativity is not quite correct.
Indeed, in this sense one could say that some predictions of general relativity are wrong (have been falsified), but instead of throwing out general relativity, scientists are inclined to "invent" new matter and energy in the universe! Pretty dodgy.
Also, Quantum field theories (QFTs) explain the behaviour of subatomic particles interacting with each other at high energy. But QFTs are just a bunch of heuristic or "magical" mathematical rules with little to no rigorous mathematical foundation but whose predictions are startlingly accurate. There is actually a $1m USD prize on offer by the Clay Mathematics Institute (https://www.claymath.org/millennium-problems/yang%E2%80%93mills-and-mass...) for anyone who can put a QFT on a rigorous, logically coherent mathematical ground. That's how important it's deemed by the scientific community.
So here, we have scientists testing the predictions of these heuristic mathematical equations in particle accelerators like the LHC, but we haven't even yet proved that a logically coherent QFT even exists.
So I think that when you see the quite shaky state and foundation of theories and models of fundamental science, it is quite easy to conclude that religious beliefs are kind of equally plausible and on an equally solid foundation.
Brutus an idea is not a reality ;)
And who is Brian Cox … ;);)
It’s almost astounding the level of ignorance on display.
Brutus, you don't seem to appreciate the argument.
By saying God is not created, you admit that things can exist without having a designer. So, what reason have you for holding that the universe is not also one of the things that can exist without a designer?
brutus wrote:chook, that's why the idea of God being the creator and designer ....of all!
That's the question man is always trying to find......where did it all start....so everytime the scientists drill down into the hows and whys....such as the God Particle.......there is nothing random , something or body designed it all!!
chook wrote:Brutus, intelligent design cannot be right.
Here's why -- we have dilemma. Either the(a) designer was designed or (b)the designed was not designed.
if a then we have a vicious regress and get no explanation of how the universe came to be..
if b, then the designer exists without being designed. So that means things can exist without a designer. So it's possible for the universe similarly to just exist without a designer.
brutus name one biological structure or system that you believe could not have evolved by natural processes.
Well BB how about life itself or the universe as a whole? As Brian Cox explains (again) in his latest Universe tv series, we don't actually know how either appeared. So it is equally plausible to believe that neither evolved from a "natural process" until proven otherwise as it is to believe that they did.
Here you go optimist
Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...
But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!
So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like
You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...
maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here
Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain
All the best...brother
PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!