Billabong Pro Pipeline: Women's Final
Well, the Women got their day at proper Pipe and the sporting world finally got an answer to the question: Who wants a piece of barrelling 8-10 foot Pipe amongst the Women's elite?
Not many.
Tyler Wright did not. Lakey Peterson did not. Carissa Moore did not.
Moana Jones Wong was alone in the field as the sole surfer ready to have a crack at proper Pipe.
Her matches, including the Final, were not competitive. She put five-time, and current, World Champ Carissa Moore into a combination after her opening two rides and kept her there for the entirety of the heat. By the numbers, she was almost four times better than the current best in the world after forty minutes of head to head competition at pretty damn good 6-8 foot Pipe.
Her heat with Tyler was a little closer on the scorecard, largely because Tyler packed a large Backdoor wave for a quick but intense tube ride. But it was not a competitive heat. Jones Wong took the Pipeline boogy man head on within the first five minutes for a ride that was very close to a make and when Wright made it clear she wanted nothing to do with the lefts Wong simply caught any wave she wanted, including some from right under Tyler's nose when she had priority.
Wright's Pipe record remains extraordinary. In two showings, she has won $95,000 USD and not made a single left-hand wave. She did catch one in her heat with Jones Wong but fell soon after the bottom turn for a 0.93.
Wright explained in her post-heat presser that she “chose to play it safe” and asked the viewing public to “give us a few years” to figure it out. A comment that drew immediate push-back from Kelly Slater in the booth. Kelly diplomatically mansplained that time in the line-up was required, even if not catching a wave, as a means of studying how the best do it, where they sit, what waves they catch etc etc. Kelly's logic is unimpeachable: the fastest way to get good at something is see how the best do it and copy them.
Tyler's reasoning is also impeccably rational. She explained she has to surf in five days and that taking any risk of injury on was silly, or words to that effect. She made a tonne of money, bathes in acres of kudos, is on a solid multi-year contract with Rip Curl and was the highest paid pro surfer, man or woman, at the end of 2016. There's zero incentive for her to risk any of that by charging a Pipe left and stepping out of the comfort zone.
Is that an existential issue for the elite of the Women's tour at Pipe? That they have perfectly rational incentives not to take risks, not to charge?
In the counter-factual where Jones Wong had been knocked out early or not been granted a wildcard, that approach would have won the comp.
It may yet do at G'Land and Teahupoo.
Kelly's diplomacy was tested when quizzed on the Moore/Peterson Semi-Final. Lakey was sitting on a pair of sub-one point rides, and was making a statement that she wanted nothing to do with wave after wave of hectic lefts sending their innards out into the channel in firehoses of spit. From the drone shot, we could see Carissa and Lakey, a mile out on the shoulder, with the famous Pipe boil clearly delineating the line-up. Kelly couldn't resist the observation that the heat had played out with both women well outside the take-off zone.
It takes courage to resist pressure, to not do something everyone else expects you to do. It's equally true that you don't get better at something by not doing it.
Kelly almost begged Carissa to get in and nail a set wave in her Final with Moana. As much to push her out of her comfort zone and seed the future with an attempt, even if unsuccessful.
Carissa did have a go at a chunky Backdoor right, for a non-make. Other than that, there were no attempts at proper Pipe lefts. Those were left to Moana to take, at her will and discretion.
Commentary made much of the hometown pressure on Jones Wong. I saw a complete absence of pressure. Once she had established the lefts were hers alone, there was a total lack of competitive pressure on her. She took waves off Carissa at will, whether she had priority or not.
What to do with Moana now? In hollow lefts she is miles ahead of the rest of the best. Possibly the biggest performance gap in pro surfing history has now opened up in waves of consequence, of which the Championship Tour is stacked.
Much has been made of the historic nature of the comp, yet paradoxically the prime beneficiaries exist somewhere in the future. The young girls on the sand, who will follow their heroines into conquering Pipeline.
Another strange paradox: By looking back to the past, to the simple Lopez line stripped of machismo, Jones Wong now owns the future at this break. Her closest rivals are years away in terms of reps, galaxies distant in terms of desire and commitment to the drop.
In terms of how Pipe has played out with the Men's and Women's comps in the same waiting period, we also have a template as to how it will unfold at other heavy water locations in the schedule. We've muddled our way through with no help from the commentary or WSL Commissioner but essentially we have operated as though they are two separate waiting periods, as they were when Cloudbreak and Teahupoo were last on tour for the Women.
That enables them to pick and choose the conditions that are suitable - which is not the worst result.
Moana now gets a crack at Sunset. On the strength of today's performance she needs to be part of the draw at G'Land and Tahiti.
Will it take “years”, as Wright implied, for the women to rise to her standard, or will the predicted surge of youth take up arms and rise to the standard Jones Wong set at Pipeline today?
If I was a betting man, I'd say Tyler is on the money. Making Pipe look easy is a long term proposition.
// STEVE SHEARER
Comments
Completely unchallenged. How is that even possible?
But yeah, she was. And she must have been in heaven.
Was nice to see the Lopez Line anno 2022, looking clean - and somehow modern.
Just watched the highlights... MJW made it look fun/easy/playful where the other three made it look scary. Seemed she had her board completely dialled in a way the others didn't (surprise, surprise). Smooth, pure. Looked like she had the skills to sit a bit deeper, but why bother when she had the others on toast as it was.
That last pit was pretty sick.
Honolua was a great event, Pipe (Moana excepted) largely a non event. Horses for courses, and back to the drawing board for a total tour reimagining. The questions will only get louder. The women are fine athletes and great surfers whose abilities should be celebrated rather than their weaknesses exposed to this extent. Until there is a notable, across the board increase in performance and engagement with waves like pipe, Its not really 'showcasing' anything. Hopefully Moanas incredible performance will inspire a new generation, but the performance of most may not.
Firstly, congrats to Moana. I've been a huge fan of hers for a few years, watching her instagram clips of her surfing big Pipe set to cute little Hawaiian tunes. She's a pure surfer that i respect. I'm glad you touched on Lopez, because there's alot of parallels there, in the fact she draws similar lines, picks similar waves and has that same relaxed approach. She has a relationship with the wave as Lopez does. It's a thing of beauty. She is also at the forefront of progressive surfing for women at Pipeline, as Lopez was.
It would be easy to lament the efforts of the other girls, but the reality is, like you've noted, there's just been no incentive to ever step outside the tried and tested format that's reaped great success for them in recent years in the contest world.
When Tyler talks about time, i honestly think in no time there's gonna be a rabid pack of young talented females from around the world and Hawaii that are going to step up and take what's theirs if they want it. There's clearly an opportunity for women surfers to capitalize on the gap in performance in heavy water waves that exists, and we all know there's countless charging females around the globe, many of who are very skilled surfers in small stuff too. The cream will naturally rise to the top, and those that don't want it will naturally lose their places.
Also, girls that start competing now will KNOW that the big league requires you to challenge yourself in these waves. If you're not up to the challenge, don't bother stepping up to the plate.
Kudos to Tyler for her wave, i felt for Lakey and Carissa, they got pretty exposed but in no way can i judge them. Being confronted with what is essentially life and death situations brings out the boogeyman in all of us. They're great women, great surfers in their own rights, awesome ambassadors for surfing and they still charge waaaaaay harder than me!! haha. Pipes a unique beast.
Great write up again FR. Thanks for covering the comp. It's added so much to what was already an epic event.
Tyler is behind the times, have a look at the females at the Olympic slope style no excuses there. Same ramps as the men and sending it.
Not comparable at all.
Those ramps are always there to practice on for snowboarders,in many ski areas.
People take turns in riding them ,unlike crowded lineups in surfing where it can be every man to himself, and the top heirarchy locals,virtually always guys at breaks like Pipe,get the best waves.
Moana grew up there,so surfed there often,and would have been called into waves or allowed to have a dig amongst the heirarchy out there,being a local and in the circle.
Which is totally why she wiped the floor with her competitors during the event
And the biggest difference from snowboard or skateboard ramps,magnified at breaks like Pipe,is they don't move,waves do.
Unfortunately there is only 1 Pipe,and a small handful of other similar waves,of which apart from Moana,aren't in any of the other girls backyards to spend all the time needed to get them more wired.
Sure they could spend more of the north shore winter having a dig at Pipe,but so do many others,along with the locals and stalwarts.
So combine that masochistic 'sausage fest',as Tyler Wright called it,along with how heavy and intimidating the crowd along with the waves themselves are,then it was a huge ask for any of the girls,aside from Moana,to go out there and show any talent comparable to the other events they surf.
Na if they wanna surf pipe they will surf pipe. Every surf spot in the world has a hierarchy led by males. Just acting like spoilt kids only want what the sibbling has until they get it then discarded.
In my opinion its not always the most skilled surfers getting all the good waves its the people who can fight well.Thats what happened at cape solander and shark island and i think Pipe too.
Give the chicks a break. They don’t surf there except for Moana and look how good she is. They’ll get there. They just need time. Reckon next year will be better and Moana will have proper competition.
Agree, Bobba. Moana is just the start. They will be better for it but, they arent going to get there without our support.
They have all had many years of Surfing Pipe.
I think,especially if there's lefts and it's solid in her heats,that Moana could win every event there in coming years if it stays on the calendar.
Why?
Well how many of the girls in the event are going to keep surfing it once they've surfed their last heat in the comp,for the entirety of the north shore season?
There's only one,Moana.
Carissa,being hawaiian,needs to start putting in more time there whenever she's at home too,
She should of impressed more in the final.
Most of the other girls are from different places so will never have the same opportunities to put in the same kind of time there.
As impressed as I was with Moana's Pipe performance, I don't see her as an allround top-tier surfer. Doubt she'd rip at G-Land.
Would love to be proven wrong.
I reckon at 6 foot speedies she’d leave the others for dead.
But yeah if it came down to turns she’d be in trouble
Nah. Caroline Marks and others would make her look pretty pedestrian I reckon.
But Marks looked exactly that out at pipe.
G Lamd is nothing like pipe. G Land may be won on turns. Moana doesn’t look to have a fraction of the technical ability of Marks. Moana had an almost insurmountable break-specific advantage over her competitors which I don’t reckon will even translate to Tahiti.
Your right but real champs are great at all breaks or they learn to be Caroline is young and maybe has the time.
She'll still be the best one out there though if they send the girls out in the same size conditions as the pipe finals day.
The concept of surfing chopes is similar to pipe.
Paddle in hard,make the drop,draw the bottom turn,set the line,then get spat out,all within 10 seconds the majority of the time.
And there's less warping and clamping in many of the barrels at chopes compared to pipe,so once in the barrel it's probably an easier barrel to come out of more often to my observations.
I do think speedies in g land though might not be up her alley.
It's longer and there's more pumping and threading in the barrel required it's not a drop,bottom turn,set line then get spat out all in a few seconds deal.
Most of the guys would pull it off but i think it'll show up many of the women's shortfalls,if they were put out in 6 foot speedies,which i doubt they will be as money trees is always on at the same time too.
Fully agree. Sooo many chick grommets wanna be Moana RIGHT NOW. Just as Laird Hamilton pushed the envelope at Chopes with "that wave", in 10 years time, Moana will be the Rhonda Rousey of female surfing, a pioneer. The biggest mountains are climbed with one small step at the start.
And if you think it's hard for women to be taken seriously at pipe (or even get a wave), well I've seen more waves ridden at pipe by chicks than I've seen women commenting on swellnet threads.
THINK about that, Steve ;)
Not usually a fan of claiming, but it was hard not to get swept up in Moana's vibrant enthusiasm as she exited each barrel with an outstretched arm.
Great to have such a talented new face on the scene too.
Liked the claims but thought the fall offs after the pull outs were incredible, each one was really enjoyable to watch. (Have a look if you cant recall..)
Just watched again, can someone edit all the cool fall off's? She's awesome. Best thing to happen to Women's surfing since Steph's wave at Keramus.
Same I think it was more of an expression of joy than anything else and well deserved
"Give us time" Can you imagine any other athlete in the absolute top tier in the world asking for time to get better?
That is not what you should hear from the BEST in the world. She got paid full pay for an admitted poor performance that needs time to improve?
No other top tier female athletes in the world have something like an almost complete lack of experience at heavy Pipe to deal with either though.
The four heats she surfed over the last few days was an ideal opportunity to gain experience at pipe without having to deal with large crowds. She didn’t take the opportunity so when would be a good time for her to get experience ??
Straight up
I guess 4 heats for a couple of hours would of really closed the gap with someone who grew up there and surfs there all the time hey lol.
No one's saying that. It was everyone's chance to have a crack at uncrowded Pipe and some didn't. Whatever your reasons, you're getting paid to play so have some integrity and at least go and sit on the boil between sets.
Still if she was determined to crack it she would be out there as Kelly said studying how is done at every opportunity and work on it (like Kelly and Mick did). Seemed to me like it is all to hard for Tyler which is strange as she is obviously talented enough to take it on. Bit of the Pip's maybe?
I think there's a parallel in Cricket with teams being newly accepted into Test Cricket. NZ took something like fifty years to win their first test and now they're test champions. Afghanistan got crushed in their first few outings but are rapidly progressing.
More of Fail for the WSL attempt at Wokeness, instead of showcasing womens surfing.
Its leaving a big opening for a Trans athlete ???
lol absolutely. im booking my op now. should be easy money. this is the best comment on here, amongst all the astute, though predictable ones.
Matt Wilkinson - a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
Well - he did a perm once. Cant be too much of a stretch to go Trans
And hes a goofy !
Fluid thank you.
Username checks out
Maybe there's already one there haha?!
Not sure how Moana will do in waves other than Pipe. We have yet to really see her surfing skills away from pipe.
At Chopes she'll still do better than the rest if it gets a bit solid i'm sure.
I'd think she'll get a wildcard there too now.
She singlehandedly showed a woman can surf solid Pipe,so they'll need her to save that event too maybe.
Also as she's not on tour,i could see her spending a month there before the event getting it dialled,as she'll have time,and it's during the Hawaii off season.
That'd be my game plan if i was her,presuming they give her a wildcard weeks before the event starts.
Her small wave act will be an issue. She is nowhere near Carissa, Steph, Lakey etc when it comes to turns. Those girls really have lifted womens surfing to a good level in those type of waves.
Yeah but big pipe really put the spotlight the waves and how painfully monotonous it is watching someone Pip jump up and down on little stuff and how thrilling it is watching WOC (waves of consequence) and the guys (and MJ) take it them on. This is where they earn their pay packet.
I love your enthusiasm BD but with the structure of the QS and CS comps it seems the recipe is set for Moana to dominate indefinitely. Hard to envisage how any charging newcomer gets a start, unless they hand out more wildcards.
This is the thing, hey? Whether it be the juniors, QS, or CS, women surfers have no need to go anywhere near Pipeline, but as soon as they jump to the CT - and, what, that's one or two surfers per year? - then they have to become adept at a complex and terrifying wave.
That said, with Elo and co. setting the CT course towards heavy water waves, the sooner the young girls accept that fate the better they'll be. In Australia, aspiring pros gravitate towards the thin-lipped waves of the Goldy and Northern NSW, it's consistent and it's where the HPC thing is. However, I think they'll be better served by doing what the Brazos have been doing .
Since about 2000, Pina - talent scout and mentor to almost every Brazo pro - took his troops to the North Shore where they lived for the season. Coincidentally, it's what the Aussies used to do in the 70s and 80s.
I reckon the new crew will need a return to heavy water acclimatisation through the summer months if they're to make it on the Tour's new world order.
That's interesting. No wonder guys like Sammy Pupo etc were charging so hard on the big pipe days. I was really impressed with all of the Brazilians, really. Toledo not withstanding.
Totally agree, a lot of Australian sports now have rules in place that don't allow hard training techniques - they are too scared that someone might be offended and call out bullying. Australia's most promising surfer Jack Robbo spends months in Hawaii each year outside of the comps and we have all seen how he performs there
Agree and what did we get out of the 70's and 80's....world champs.
"New world order" you say? Hmmm, interesting terminology... Where have we heard that before?...
Not sure, were you in the crowd when Woodrow Wilson outlined his vision for international peace post-World War One? A "new world order to prevent aggression and conflict".
If so, that's probably where you heard it.
I heard Brad Hazzard say it recently. Also Kerry Chant. There's been quite the revival of that catch phrase of late in the media.
Historically, George H W Bush famously said it many times. Dubya uttered it occasionally. Biden hasn't minded dabbling in a bit of NWO rhetoric either. Al Jourgensen wrote a song about it the same year KS won his first Pipe Masters.
Interesting that you use Wilson's quote. A "new world order to prevent aggression and conflict".
For it seems these quoters of said terminology have indeed authorised quite a bit of "aggression and conflict", no?
Yawn.
AhHAHAHA! Keep it shallow right?! LOW tide! Welcome to your New World Order bitches lol!
Go back to covid overload forum with the rest of your anti vax shit Algae this is about the Pipeline contest.
You seem triggered. There was no mention of vax by me. Are you suggesting the vax is somehow connected to the new world order?
Did some quick calculations for the mid season cut based on the first five events (for the men) and by winning an event one has probably already qualified. Interesting to see how that plays out.
A pity Steph wasn't there to have a crack
Agreed.
Do people think Steph would have got into the pointy end of the comp?
Yes. Have you seen her clip of Backdoor where she is in the white wettie?
That was like the waves the other day when some of the girls got some good ones,not like the final.
I think Carissa is better than Steph at Pipe,so judging by how she went in the final,i think Steph would of been pretty sameish.
She would of been as far away as possible from the lefts and never near Moana i bet.
I can think of two other female local surfers, one at Teahupoo and another Cloudbreak that share the same level of comfort in the heavier stuff. I hope they get wildcards into the upcoming events and yet again expose the "daylight" that exists within the women's CT field and committed locals.
Doesn't one of the women pro literally live in Fiji and surf Cloudbreak all the time between events ?
You’re thinking of Brisa Hennessy, I think her dad manages one of the resorts there.
Moana charging Teahupoo...would be epic
Just some context that didn't make it from notes to article:
It's not unheard of for Specialist wildcards to win events on the mens draw either.
Jamie O'Brien, Mike Ho have both won Pipe as wildcards.
Bruno Santos and Manoa Drollet Finalled at Chopes as Wildcards.
We may see it again with Vahine Fierro at Chopes this year.
It's just the starkness of the gap between MJW and the rest of the field that stands out.
Also, spent a long time searching for clips/recaps of the early 2000's Women's Event at Teahupoo to try and gauge performance evolution in tubes.
That era and series of events seems almost completely memory holed from the Internet.
Could not find a single clip.
Was hoping for some evidence that my fav Woman Pro of that Era, Chelsea Georgeson, was getting shacked there.
Actually, it was Johnny Boy who won pipe in 97, Michael Ho was runner up, but to your point, both were wildcards. Not to mention the number that have wrecking-balled the early rounds- Gavin Gillette ending Parko's 2010(?) title hunt at pipe a notable example....
Yeah, copy that.
Gavin Gilette beat Parko in 09.
And JBG was the oldest winner ever at the time too at 34.
Then Kelly smashed it at 41 in 2013,and has just completely obliterated it at 49.
I think he might have won 1 after 34 and before 41 too like about 2008ish.
If there's one way to judge if he's the GOAT of all sports,it'd be in him breaking his own records multiple times.
FR if i remember rightly im pretty sure Chelsea got teahupooesque type wave at Cloudy. Its locked away somewhere in the files of my thick grey matter.
https://www.surfing-for-girls.com/chelsea-hedges.html
Freeride - shit your right there's not much out there on Chelsea at all
fantastic Stylish Surfer
Agreed also, but I'm not sure she would have sent it on the lefts either, as much as she's the Woman's Goat
Perhaps the best prize for Moana is that she’ll be getting a lot more waves out at Pipe in future. As a native-born north shore Pipeline Master, I reckon she has just leapt a long way up the pack pecking order.
Sunset - Do many of the women free surf there when in Hawaii? Interested to see how they handle it.
G-Land - There is 3 weeks between Margaret River and the G-Land comp to practice if they want it, wonder how many will post up to get in the time at the break. No excuses, doesn't have the same crowd challenges as Pipe. If Speedies is breaking, will the same scenario happen?
Teahupoo - Same as G-Land, 3 weeks between J Bay and Tahiti, plenty of time to hang out and get time at the break if they really want it.
I guess this is the problem wit the Trestles final format. As long as you finish top 5 for the season, the challenging reef lefts have no outcome on ability to win the world title.
Forget about speedies,that'll be for the blokes,if it breaks as it often doesn't,they'll save face at moneytrees.
That's the bread and butter everyday section at G land.
Still can get barrelled and they'll get to run speed lines and do turns too.
If during a women's heat and is on,perhaps one of them will paddle down there and the heat will run with a couple hundred metres separating them,but i doubt it.
They're not going to leave what's already a really good wave and take a risk with the unknown.
The girls did alright at overhead cloudbreak when the events were there,i think G land will be comparable.
Impressed! Moana was like a frothing grom at a two foot beachie! Catch a wave and scratch straight back out for another.
Whilst whoever was in the lineup with her just watched on merely as spectators.
Total different mindset to the rest of the women competitors.
WSL get her a jersey for the rest of the year! (And a BIO!)
i have a feeling she'd be brought back to earth pretty quickly at most of the other venues,as all but 1 of them have a lot less or nothing in common with Pipe at all.
As i've said before ,athletes should be paid on ability not gender.
If that’s the case, then Toledo, Ethan, Morgs and a few more need their pay docked
Those boys need to go put a lot of time in at Pipe. Slater did at an early age and it worked out nicely for him.
They have all had ample time out at Pipe !!!
Agreed particularly when you see how hard the Aussie rookies charged
“give us a few years”
Softest cop-out comment! We all know the feeling of shitting ourselves in waves we're not used to, it's one of the beauties of surfing because, as we also all know, there's only one way to get past it - push over the ledge and go!
It's not like they're coming from surfing 1ft Brazzo slop their entire lives to suddenly facing 10ft Pipe. They're professional surfers who've all been in solid surf, solid barrels, heavy situations before, sure it's scary fuck off Pipe, but the 20yo didn't have a problem giving it a good nudge and loving every second of it.
You don't have a few years if Moana's an example of the up-and-comers. Evolution can jump pretty quickly sometimes, look what happened to Ronda Rousey...
The only way any of the others could of done what Moana did,was if they'd had the same kind of history as she has there.
She's done counless hundreds,if not thousands,of more hours time out at Pipe than any of the others.
I reckon Bethany Hamilton,had she been lucky enough to get there,would of made the final closer on those lefts.
she would have at least had a go at some of those sets.
No doubt she's a cut above at Pipe and you're probably right that none of the others could do what she did, though they could have at least tried. There's no substitute for learning the intricacies of a spot over months and years, but they're professionals, it's their job. Give any of us amateurs a handful of waves and we'll start to form a decent idea of how things work, let alone priority with 1 other person over multiple 30-40 minute rounds. I don't doubt their skill or ability to have surfed it, I think there was only one thing stopping them, fear.
A shame Joanne Defay was eliminated by Lakey on that last wave, I reckon she was charging in her heat and would have been interesting to watch in the finals day conditions.
Agreed, Joanne would have sent it.
Spot on @YETI
Joanne Defay charges as hard as any bloke and should have been in that final, just based on her go for it attitude. But it's a competition so it ain't that straight forward.
I think the biggest point here is to stop making fucking excuses that you haven't had time to practice at pipe. There are so many heavy-water waves on this planet to practice at, that I can't see anything in that [we haven't had time] as a valid excuse.
Get out there and practice in heavy waves if you want to overcome your fears. It's the ONLY way.
Fear can be overcome, but only if you constantly face it down and learn how to control it.
My view is that most girls [and plenty of guys] were simply frozen by fear, and saying I didn't have enough time to practice at pipe is just pure bullshit.
Chianca [in the mens] nearly whipped the men's best pipe surfers just with a fucking go for it attitude.
Did he have lots of experience at pipe? Nope, just a critical understanding and control of his fear.
Top notch comment. Sammy Pupo too. The dude was openly admitting his fear but charging anyway.
Surfalot, not sure if penalising competitors for a performance that is under their usual level is the way to go,but keep hanging on to that straw mate!
Big love and respect to the stand up girls for taking on Pipe. No doubt its hard getting into them on your feet. Especially backhand.
The women most definitely deserve equal pay. In every sport. I love watching women’s sports. I agree with what you’ve said about just giving them time to practice out there.. Pipe lineup is brutally busy. Something else to consider about 10ft Pipe with strong trade winds- physiologically it is impossible for a woman to muscle into waves as easily as a man. Muscle and testosterone make a huge difference. That’s why there are separate divisions. However I do agree the girls could have dug deeper. They can do it. I found it a bit frustrating to watch at times. Pipe is dangerous but also 99% of the time you wont hurt yourself. Carissa looked solid on her backhand in the pipe pits that she went for, I’m sure she has the skills to nail it on bigger ones. Worrying about money and injury is an interesting reason to not dig deep. Maybe it would be different if Pipe was the last event of the year?? And yeah as a female you definitely have that extra pressure if you don’t go hard, you get people commenting that you don’t deserve to be there. Maybe it was actually that pressure that the surfer girls felt? They believed what everyone was telling them? That they can’t do it!? It put that uncertainty in their head? ANyway, I’m just trying to figure it out..
I used to go to Hawaii every year to compete at Pipe in Bodyboarding. I worked multiple jobs to afford it, barely time to train for myself, stay in the shit cheap accommodation, and knew that if I hurt myself I would be in big trouble, not able to work to pay off the trip and rent at home. But its PIPELINE! You could get the barrel of your life, and you have just three other girls out there with you! For me, scoring a barrel of a lifetime is the biggest reason to go hard in the Pipe comp.. Many of the bodyboard girls would dig deep. I dug deep. Got closed out on in 10ft Pipe in 2007.. Paddled back out. Tried again. I think I got like $500 for winning in 2014 when it was about 6-8ft. Went back home to my multiple jobs to save up for next event…. (And then actually broke my back at a 2ft beachie lol). Still broke now because of my passion. But I got barrelled at Pipe. Hmmmm I’d love to have that kind of money as an extra incentive hey. I reckon I could have been pretty good at bodyboarding if I was paid. Even just enough to pay my rent lol.
Just imagine though, if every female athlete had that kind of paid opportunity? Imagine how good the level of every female athlete will become in the future when there is equal support? When they can quit their multiple jobs and train for their sport. Excited for the next gen. Excited for more sports to embrace equal pay. Let’s go girls.
I reckon you are more than bloody good!!
Lilly, spoke to some close friends who bumped into you chasing a very heavy wave on your own a long time ago. full credit to you and your passion. Put allot of blokes to shame just having a look at it. Charge on.
Haha awesome thanks Rob. Is that the spot that’s a thirty minute paddle? If its what I’m thinking of, that was the day I paddled out alone and got the best barrel of my life! And then the worst beating of my life! And a lady on the beach saw me paddling out and called the police and rescue helicopter. Lol. Crazy good day.
Maybe, maybe not. ;)
The fact that you went because you wanted it is what counts.
"Worrying about money and injury is an interesting reason to not dig deep. Maybe it would be different if Pipe was the last event of the year??"
Very good point.
It'll be less of a point at Chopes,being the second last event of the year.
But then even if Pipe was still the last event,would a world title contender,if there were others too,be hesitant of getting injured if it was solid,in fear of having to pull out and losing a shot at the title?
Haha great comment, very typical from a crazy bodyboarder no matter what gender
Lilly, you would have been far better to watch than anyone but moana out there today. Hiring you as a mindset coach would be a worthy investment of some of these girls pipe prizemoney.
Folks further to this, Lilly and Kayla Pisini have just pulled the trigger on this years pipe boog event, and Dan from infoamed has started a gofundme to help get them there without plunging into excruciating debt
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-lilly-and-kayla-at-the-pipeline-comp?...
Perhaps some of the WSL girls who did not exactly earn their big bucks at pipe could help their poor prone cousins out? Both are sweet humble legends who will send it given any chance. Well worth throwing a couple bucks at underground chargers...
Bravo Lily. Word's and your story. Legend!
Let me respectfully disagree about equal pay for both sexes.
Pay in any sport is usually/should be roughly proportional to the amount of boardshorts sold, or eyes on screens. This is the nature of professional sport or professional anything. Pay should not in any way be linked to ones intrinsic value as a human being, and I don't understand why issues of gender equity get conflated.
I surf pretty good, perhaps in a year I influence one grom at my local beach to buy the same boardshorts, and if I did choose to call myself a pro wouldn't feel entitled to more than $10 a year or whatever the margin is.
No one owes anyone anything for surfing, but if one ability is marketable then money follows. Female surfers are, I believe, outnumbered 10:1 by males, and viewership likely similar. If these stats were accurate, I'm interested to hear on what principle woman should be paid more than >10% of men.
Where I feel equity is important is where taxpayer dollars are used towards pro/amateur/grassroots sports, this is clearly different to letting a free market do its thing.
I'd be interested on anyone's thoughts on this.
I guess the Woz is a privately owned business bankrolled by an American Billionaire, so that's about as close to free market as you get.
Not a bad argument , but I think you'll find that in the surf rag trade, female clothing may actually be a larger revenue stream than male. Anyone on here know the actual figures?
Could be...might result in something closer to parity for endearment deal at least. I would have thought though that WSL revenue (therefore prize money) more linked to online viewership, which I'm guessing skews very much male. None the less, if Carissa or Moana are in fact that lucrative, the money should follow naturally without need for anyone to make a rights based argument for equal pay.
An athlete's contribution to their sponsor's goodwill (incl product sales) is presumably reflected in their salary. cf Alana Blanchard
Competition prize winnings, on the other hand, should arguably reflect their contribution to the WSL product (read bottom line) and I expect the most reliable metric of that is viewer numbers (though certainly not the only one). Comparative sacrifices like costs of travel, accommodation, equipment, coaching, physio, nutrition, etc are, respectfully, immaterial. Markets care precious little for the cost of inputs - or job titles - only the output.
That all said, the perception of gender equality is a marketable output in itself. And if it helps WSL get one big fish sponsor over the line then chances are the business case stacks up.
Professional sport is business. Rightly or wrongly notions of "fairness" has little to do with anything.
Yeah I agree, if the equal pay initiative serves WSL's long-run bottom line then I'd have no objection.
Though I suspect when the idea of equal prize money was initially floated, on grounds of 'equity', it was not so much business savvy as lack of courage that got it over the line, not so much concern over WSL balance sheet as the personal/repetitional cost of being the bloke in the room who's seemingly against progress and fairness.
I don't like how simplistic your examples are but the principle is right. You've missed the investment side of the argument, pay em more and they'll perform better, but that's a financial decision too. The conflation is just too easy and tempting.
I wonder if anyone will argue for more because there's more men and therefore a greater prize pool
One of the main points in the article is that (according to Wright), despite equal pay, there was no incentive to charge. But I imaging Moana will do ok out of this. Maybe a new system for woman and men where they get paid according to each heat total?
Imagine that? Say, one thousand dollars for every point, so a max of $20K per heat. Would create a fascinating incentive for surfers to lose (but not by too much) in the non-elimination heats, in order to make more money.
Investments don't have to pay off. Even if the average chic in tour gets better at pipe over time, still doesn't mean the investment paid off. They could just be doing it because they want to like Lilly above. Pretty sad state of affairs really
Couldn't get recent stats because I don't have the Google skills but way back in 2005 Quiksilver was getting more income selling board shorts to women than men (110 mill vs 88 in the US) and another report I found said that young women's participation in surfing is spiking faster than men's in the last decade. So, I don't think your argument matches up with market realities. Surf gear sales correlate more with generic beach lifestyle popularity than Pro surfer skills at 8ft pipe...
That said, Lily (you're a complete legend!) describes the hunger to perform and participate at Pipe, and that's with zero cash support, but knowing that Pipe was *the* proving ground for either gender of bodyboarders (that's maybe broadened in our scene in the past decade or so). I think it has become clear this week that among Pro female surfers right now, "Pipe is the pinnacle" is just *not* the attitude held by most, creating the awkward scenes in the finals.
"way back in 2005 Quiksilver was getting more income selling board shorts to women than men (110 mill vs 88 in the US)"
Really? I find that hard to believe, only because I honestly can't recall many girls wearing boardshorts at all. Of course they do - but 20% more than the men?
"and another report I found said that young women's participation in surfing is spiking faster than men's in the last decade."
Of course, that's relative to starting figure. It's a meaningless number.
Would love to see the reports if you can find 'em; I find that kinda analysis fascinating (i.e. publicly listed companies telling the market what they think a certain demographic is going to do, in order to justify their business position). Of which, shortly after 2005, things came crashing down for Quiksilver.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2008/11/20/ripples-wall-street...
Sure, and it was a tough dig to find this stuff; none of the recent published reports that I could sniff out offered segments by gender so it's all I could go on : https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/805305/000095013705007217/a09838... not actually sure if this is the same doc I was looking at the first time but the same trend is reported in terms of women's segments being slightly larger than men's. I'm sure anyone with better finance/economics knowledge than me would know where to look for more robust recent stuff.
The youth participation thing did include some absolute numbers but they feel kinda fishy to me: http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6202-surfs-up-for-young-women-fifty-pl... and this feels more balanced, though indicates an interesting stat about higher proportion of women taking up organised vs free surfing: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.clearin...
This latter report notes that there's a higher proportion of interest in surfing participation among women than men, but it's less realised in practice, suggesting it has decent appeal but other factors are affecting actual uptake.
Finally this one shows apparel earns more than gear: https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/surfing-apparel-acce...
All up it's a pretty cobbled together set of sources, I'll give you that, but it does paint a decent argument that money flows into the sport from all genders.
Without delving into the stats within those docs, of course - money flows into 'surf brands' from all genders.
But, I dispute the claim that "it does paint a decent argument that money flows into the sport from all genders." Key phrase of interest: "The Sport".
I've always been under the impression that most of the revenue generated by surfwear brands is closely related to their lines of womens swimwear.
But, how does this relate to Professional Surfing? I don't know. But I really don't think someone buying a swimsuit in Broken Hill or a pair of boardies in Singapore has any impact on whether a surf brand chooses to pay for the naming rights for the WCT event in Tahiti (which, by the way, still doesn't have a sponsor for about the fifth consecutive year).
To me, there's a large void between 'surf brands' (the companies selling apparel) and 'surfing' (the recreational pursuit. The biggest 'surf brand' on the planet is (or at least was, for a period) Hollister - who've never sponsored a surfer nor run a surf event, and whose backstory was fabricated by a savvy CEO.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-actual-hollister
As for stats of increasing participation from any gender, I'd always view it through the lens of your own experience. Next time you're in the lineup, just count the heads and see how it divvies up.
On the Tweed Coast, the popular locations might sometimes see four or five girls out of a lineup of forty or fifty (but often, there are none at all), at the quiet spots I almost never see girls out in the water.
That's just my observations anyway.
Oh, 100%, but we're taking this in a lot of directions I didn't intend with my original comment. I quite literally just wanted to point out the fallacy in the earlier comment that women should earn 10% of what men do because they shift less product. One, I think it's a horrible metric, and two, I think it's flat out incorrect.
And regarding head counts - our own experience is great at seeing people who make the same overall choices about how to ride waves that we do - where, when, with whom. I'm a bodyboarder and talked recently to a surfer from Newcastle who said nobody bodyboards there at an advanced level. He was dead serious. Had never seen a bodyboarder ride a wave well, he reckoned. When I asked a few reef names in the vicinity he'd never heard of or surfed them. His surfing venn diagram basically just didn't overlap with where good bodyboarders go, so he didn't think they existed at all. Here in Vic as a boog I'll walk a K down the beach so I can surf on my own at a rampy closeout rather than go out at a wally bank with 20 surfers. Do they see me? Probably not - in their reality, the only people who surfed that day were standups, or if they did see me, I was a kook taking closeouts. When I was on the Goldy Straddie was my home break. 4-6ft with a SW wind? Boogs everywhere, standups were (mostly) at the points. If you'd asked my surfer mates at the time what an ARS is they'd have had zero clue.
In the same way, female surfers might make different choices about when, where and with who they surf, and hell, they might even actively avoid lineups of 50 dudes with no women out, because it just might not be fun for them, just like I don't bother paddling out to that wally bank with 20 surfers.
I'm not saying men don't dominate numerically overall - they do - I agree with you, and those reports back it up - but people are pretty bad at noticing change if it's not in their immediate bubble, and the reports do point to some trends around interest/participation from women growing quite a lot.
Oh and I was quoting apparel stats not literally just "boardshorts" - that was me taking aim at Bvn's comment that pay should be proportional to how many board shorts you inspire others to buy. The main reason I commented was to point out that his estimation of women chipping in less than 10% of the market seems, at least on those old Quiksilver figures, completely wrong, but obviously it's just the one report I could find.
Ah, cool - I didn't make the link (I thought you literally meant boardshorts).
As per my above comments, I reckon there'd be more women's clothing sales of the big 'surf brands' than mens, for sure.
But, what does that mean?
Onya Lilly, you're a charger alright, you've charged right into this sausage fest haha not sure how many on here have actually surfed (?) 10' pipe either, I haven't. How come you (and Moana, god bless her tiny little heart) don't care about being scared?
thats a good comment. as a booger, you would be making a fraction of the stand up surfers, yet you still charged and most of them didnt. i've seen some of your stuff on insta. carry on the good work
I think board choice was a factor. MJW seemed to be riding bigger board which allowed her to get in & draw those lines.
Her last wave was great to see, behind the section, see through it, then hands in be air!
Great job young lady!!
Tyler & Carissa showed with their Backdoor waves they can charge just need to spend time on lefts.
Hey I’m from the southern Golide, love a right hand point break, not that great in ledging lefts! Need to practice more I suppose.
"Something else to consider about 10ft Pipe with strong trade winds- physiologically it is impossible for a woman to muscle into waves as easily as a man. Muscle and testosterone make a huge difference. "
Not sure that argument applies here Lilly.
Moana is small and not solidly built at all and paddled in easily using timing and positioning (and superior equipment as noted above).
@freeride76 Yeah absolutely agree hey. Timing/positioning/equipment/skills are also huge factors. And Moana really killed it hey.
Recon confidence really counts highly in bigger waves.
It does make a difference coming out of some of those barrels that pinch or clamp down though.
A couple of the ones that got her,the guys would of stayed on their boards and made the waves,being heavier and stronger.
Same with some of the other girls rides too.
Moana would’ve smoked Pip Toledo
Shame Joanne was knocked out in a slow 4ft heat - she wants the bombs! Fucking rad to see her chasing swells and monstro waves just for the love and fun of it.
Imagine how bad finals day would have been without Moana
Those 3 photos of Moana in this article are awesome!
What a gutsy little champ.
...but yeah, the less said about the rest the better.
Let's not forget Moana also doesn't really go right. They all seek their forehand and Pipe was much better than Backdoor today,
Fek me,
I thought it was only pollies, grifters and similar types like Bernard Tomic who earn ridiculous money for very little productive output.
Its a disgrace!
This is where the equality narrative falls apart. The women are simply not strong enough to handle big pipe and paddle confidently into big critical drops. The commentators knew it and so did everyone else.
Put them in waves where the women can shine, not heaving pipe where thousands of viewers can post comments in the youtube live stream shaming them.
The equality narrative comes from the girls themselves, do you think it right others advise them they are wrong?
I just had a look at Lakey Peterson's instagram. A few assholes giving her shit for her effort. pretty crappy to go at her personally.
I comment as a fan, in a surf forum. I did think she was exposed but it is pretty shit to see people attacking her like that.
Pretty glaring contrast to hear a holder of multiple women’s world titles still whining that they need to be GIVEN more opportunities out there , whilst in the same broadcast Kelly Slater is telling tales of surfing pipe at 12 years old, getting flogged and being determined to learn the place like the back of his hand.
I reckon there’s a generational cultural movement I like to think of as “Neutered Feminism “ which has its proponents originating in the most pampered environment in global history, whilst still believing that they are victims of patriarchal oppression. Complaining about being treated as bikini models whilst not evolving their surfing to cope with expert level waves.
It’s a neutered version of feminism because it cries constantly about how hard they e got it whilst never doing anything to assert their own agency and getting everything handed to them on a plate.
It’s like a bunch of East Berliners who still complain about their oppression a couple of decades after the Berlin Wall was dismantled. Sure they may have problems in their lives but the problems aren’t the result of communism.
Thank Christ there’s another bunch of hungry young chick surfers soon to hit the world stage who weren’t raised thinking that their job mostly involved lifestyle shots on palm treed islands and cutesy dancing to disco on luxury surf charter vessels.
REEEEEEEE!!! REEEEEEEE!!! How dare you haha!!!
FR any idea what the income streams are (assume advertising) for female / male comps?
For me, Moana highlighted the gap in performance in solid waves of consequence for the women. Yes, it's her local and yes, she surfed on her forehand, but pipe is predominately a left. She has now set the benchmark for the women surfing pipe and she was daylight ahead of the others from what I saw of the comp. To me, there is no more excuses, nor "give us time". As Kelly pointed out, get out there and watch, observe, take note and even try to score a couple.
I don't care about the "equal pay, equal play" calls. They are employed as the worlds best, they know the destinations they are going to surf and they know the potential conditions that those destinations will serve up. If they aren't up for that, get out and give those that are a chance.
Moana was a joy to watch, she had style, she looked relaxed and she looked to be having fun. I will watch how she goes at sunset, and hope she gets a shot at Chopes and G-land.
“They are employed as the worlds best, they know the destinations they are going to surf and they know the potential conditions that those destinations will serve up. If they aren't up for that, get out and give those that are a chance.”
Yep
Was Moana riding a quad with 4 fins all the same size? No quad rears just 4 normal size fins? Maybe that’s what you need when you are light weight?
Check the vid below
The rears also look quite spaced out closer to the rails than what Kelly rides or McKee setup and normal step up quads.
This shows Fin cluster a bit better
You might be right, I thought rears were slightly smaller.
But in that vid they looked same size.
damn, that board worked so good for her.
I reckon they are slightly smaller...those Stretch Quad sets she uses the Rears are only a Tad smaller.
^^ Height Difference
fronts 4.38
rears 3.99
9.9 mm
Looking at the tail it looks wide so quads it has to be.
Mona stands a long way forward on that board back foot no where near the sweet spot certainly has control in the barrel, interesting.
A la Lopez.
No deck bad either. Ride it forward
These are my fave quads for a DS/Spartan in solid waves. All same size:
https://captainfin.com/products/mccallum-quad
why is there no mention of the women who were knocked in small conditions or didn't compete (steph)? sal fitz, beth hamilton and steph all absolutely charge and i'm not sure it's fair to paint with a broad brush when half of the women weren't sent out in bigger than head-high pipe.
I've never seen footage of Sally Fitz charging waves like solid Pipe.
Neither Steph.
The footage of her was smaller like the other day when the girls got a few decent ones.
Don't really know about Bethany,but i'm certain if she never lost her arm in that shark attack when she was a kid,she'd probably be the queen of Pipe these days,based on what i've seen of her over the years there with her disadvantaged handicap.
i've surfed big south coast slabs with sal over the years and find it hard to imagine she couldn't apply that same mentality to a shifting pipe peak. you only have to think back less than a month to the Da Hui shootout to remember beth charges harder than most.
Pipe,and Hawaii in general,are next level heaviness compared to Australia and most other places.
Can't vouch for it personally,but have heard from people who've been there,and seen pros say it in years past too.
Even if the waves aren't hollow,they push harder.
Even if you're just wading in the shore,the water feels stronger running through your legs.
Perhaps surfing slabs on the south coast isn't really as much a preparation for Pipe as one would think then i'm not sure.
"Don't really know about Bethany,but i'm certain if she never lost her arm in that shark attack when she was a kid,she'd probably be the queen of Pipe these days,based on what i've seen of her over the years there with her disadvantaged handicap."
Does the mere fact she charges big pipe with ONLY one fucking arm put all the other ladies who wouldn't try to shame. Me thinks so. I may add she also put all the guys who wouldn't "send it" to shame as well.
Bethany is someone the girls need to start looking up to for inspiration. It's that simple, they just say to themselves before paddling out each time - "if she can do it with one arm, then what's my excuse?"
Bethany IS the Queen of Pipe in my opinion! Peace out!
She would've joined the tour years ago when Carissa did and been one of the top women if that never happened.
Yeah she charges,but she is disadvantaged against other competitors in the paddling department.
She has 50% less paddling power.
Unfortunately that's what gets in the way of her progressing further at times it looks to me.
She can't get into the right spots quick enough to get the best waves that would've won her more heats.
Which is when others that don't surf it near as well get past her.
She's been the sentimental queen of Pipe maybe in the past, but the official one was crowned it today.
The worm surely has turned Blowin, it may have turned so far that it's disappearing up it's own asspipe.
Can anyone tell me what the measure of equal pay is...surely it's not enough to just say both sexes are professional surfers?
In what other industry would that get across the line?
If I was a male surfer competing in the Pipe comp I would be calling out the inequality of equal pay.
Not in these days of instant social media shaming.
Unless you wanted to bring heat on yourself,make negative headlines,risk your career,or at least lose a sponsor or two.
Back in the 80's it was far from equal pay but a few of the top guys used to give shit to the women simply because they were nowhere near as good,and largely got away with it.
Dusty Paine says hello.
Why was Carissa riding a thruster ? i mean its obvious that quads work best in barrels......Moana the new hope of women's surfing, just hope she can surf rights as there will be a lot of pressure on her to do well at sunset. What i cant understand is that Carissa's a 5 x world champ who is Hawaiian so i would have thought she would surf big meaty waves a lot being a local but doesn't seem to be the case.....why? Now i mentioned this on the other thread, why not just have an expression session for the women who want to have a real dig at pipe ,be way more exciting than watching girls not really wanting to be out there......and give the girls back Honolua bay which was more in there comfort zone and really good to watch .
One thing I always think when I see clips of JJF and his bro Nate is that they always surf thrusters at Pipe. I’ve never seen a clip of them riding quads. Works for them eh?
Would have been epic if Laura Enever got a wildcard ... no doubt she would have sent it (as documented in the early AM surfs before they ran the men's). Moana did great.... Tyler's wave was epic....
Bring moana to margs and run the whole comp at the box
How does she go backhand?
Based on how many of the guys struggle at the Box, I doubt she would be up for it. Backhand too. Its a hard wave, arguably harder than pipe and really requires local knowledge. The year they had it big, Jack Robbo made everyone look like they were struggling out there. Even John John.
I think the whole women's pipe comp is a sad example of good intentions that end poorly. At the same time, I don't really know who is responsible for how it turned out.
On one hand, it's clear that the WSL made plenty of errors regarding if or when the women would surf. It's the whole "Equality vs Equity" issue turned up to 11 - it is a clear fact that men and women's surfing are at different places right now and to make a step change and lump them together at the same venues was only going to go this way. Also, the debacle around the Women not surfing on the Men's finals day due to "wind", with the men pulling into huge barrels in the background during the announcement, was madness.
At the same time, the WSL had given the surfers around a year's notice that Pipe was going to be "a thing" in the future - the women had better be ready. Since it's Pipe in January/February, surely the women must have realised the strong possibility that:
1. It would be big
2. It would be Pipe - not Backdoor.
Sure, there's the argument that it's hard to get waves out at Pipe to become proficient at surfing it. If that's the case, I would have thought that catching waves in the heats would be a great way to learn.
It truly seems like the WSL is employing a "let it rip" strategy with the big wave performance gap.
Any thoughts on it being a natural vs goofy challenge ? Moana was on her forehand going left where as for the other three it was a backhand barrel prospect…..
Very good question and fair observation.
As an observer, Backdoor backhand looks like a much harder wave grinding onto a shallower and shallower reef, sometimes only with doggydoor exits backhand than Pipe which seems to be shorter, intense but always goes into a deeper channel. So you'd have to imagine that Pipe backhand is a more calculated risk. But that's just from the arm chair expert!!
Just checked out her Insta - wow some incredible clips and photos of her charging pipe. Got it all going on - married, plays the piano, charges…
Had to scroll scroll scroll to find a her going backhand - style and hacks but no barrel shots.
Can anyone else see the similarities between WWE wrestling and the WSL?
As in the commentary compared to the reality?
A lack of experience at Pipe is not the reason for hestitation and low performance levels. Fair to say, for decades rookie pros have turned up for Pipe with next to no experience and thrown themselves down the face, learning on the fly. Fear of shaming for not going is greater than fear of the reef and the wave.
The expectations for women surfers are different but that is about to change with equal pay.
Fully appreciate the danger/fear level for some of the girls (and blokes) but they have to at least have a go. Paddling out with little intention of getting a wave never mind competing for set waves and the heat is just wrong.
As a pro there's no excuse for being underprepared. Yes, it is harder for the girls to battle for waves in the usual pipe line up but they are in a unique position where they can go there and focus on nothing else for weeks at a time. They have all of the infrastructure around them to make it possible - cash, equipment, contacts, knowledge. Its an absolute gift.
If they choose not to prepare because they really don't fancy surfing pipe, hope it never has to happen and would actually prefer it if there was a separate women's comp at a different more manageable break then fair enough. But they need to say so. Then we can avoid the awkwardness of the excuse making in commentary and on stage and someone can actually have a crack at those beautiful untroubled waves.
Well done Moana. Great lines and pure joy at having empty pipe was the highlight.
The rest? Regrets that will haunt them in many ways is all I see.
Next time (?) Tyler paddles for a wave at Pipe in a free surf, will the pack pull back....... ? Awkward.
Tyler - i guess there would t be a few rookies in the mens that had a good dig at it that would have had very little time out pipe. What i mean is if you want it - it was there to be had. Certainly agree with getting out there and watching and learning from the best though
Tatiana might have been up for a rematch. Knocked out by Moana in the R16 (was building conditions?) by less than 1.5.
Would this be a different conversation if it was a N-NW swell and it was all Backdoor?
Good question. Tyler got the highest scoring wave in the finals at Backdoor so probably would have made a difference.
Probably the main difference to date with the guys and girls is the ability to go backhand on critical waves. Any goofy footer on the ladies tour is going to have an advantage on tour at Chopes, Gland, Pipe etc
Didn’t want to make any comment until I had watched some more replays.
I was really impressed by Moana’s determination, courage and joy. What a great performance.
My comment comes from the missed opportunity of the women to make a statement about their sport on the world stage. And therefore, the missed opportunity the WSL have had to see returns on their investment. The loss here will never be greater than what we have just witnessed. It’s the first time women have run in conjunction with men at Pipe, , regardless that it was run in February in smoking, gnarly conditions. This is An arena that mainstream media can engage with, as evidenced by the widespread reaction to Kelly’s win. He wouldn’t have got anywhere near the write ups he has at any other venue.
The sentiment here (comments) is the WSL keep dropping the ball but it seems to go deeper than their coverage or commentary (although it does give some insight)
They needed to provide their athletes with a sense that they belong to something important. They needed to give the women a sense of unity and opportunity to showcase their collective talents on the world stage. This would have had to start long before the event. It seems obvious that they have not found courage in each other out in the water. Someone mentioned that there seems no incentive for any of the women to take a risk and go. That’s the narrative the organisation need to find, in partnership with their athletes, if they are to make something of the product that they have become. It’s likely the athletes see themselves as nothing more than commodities and this is the fundamental flaw in the whole setup. The coverage reeks of this sentiment, I believe. For these athletes to (not) perform the way they have, signals an unhealthy organisation where resentment may be stronger than individual aspiration.
Yep! When Tyler was interviewed post heat she mentioned Moana "trains" out here (Pipe) all the time. That's just not true. Look at Moana's insta clips. She's out there gorging herself on epic Pipe pits. Completely for the love. It just so happened her froth for Pipe found her on the world stage.
There's a world of difference between 'surfing' and 'training'. It's gotta be a mindset, which goes deeper than the actual surfers as you rightly pointed out. The organisation has been taking surfing away from it's core (i know that word..that word) values for some time now since they've tried to Americanize it for people who still, don't care and never will care. Just my two cents worth to that. Cheers.
Carissa Moore was a major disappointment.
She's a multiple world champion,, from Hawaii, has had more than ample opportunity to surf at the Pipeline/Backdoor reef, yet in the final she capitulated completely to MJW.
Moana Jones-Wong was a wildcard rookie who has never won anything at the top level and a year ago, was known only around the North Shore.
A lost opportunity Carissa will come to regret.
Tyler talked a bunch of shit about sausage fest,and lack of opportunity at Pipeline not just on social media but mainstream media.
Tyler got an earlier heat without even having a competitor (not sure why) earlier in the comp and failed to "practice" or even try to practice or go left for practice .
Tyler gets paid an astronomical amount for one wave in the final (it was a good ride) but "worlds best"?
Tyler comes in and whinges about how she/they needs more time to practice and Moana "trains there all the time" . More excuses.
Maybe being nothing but a entitled spoilt contest surfer her whole life she doesnt get that maybe Moana surfs there cause its a sick wave and she wants to surf well there rather than life evolving about making money from surfing?
It may have been in the Backdoor shootout but Moana did a pretty good pigdog going right that I saw so not just a left specialist.
The cream rose to the top both mens and womens .
As for Tyler and her bitterness.....faark lets just blame the misogynistic menfolk and lack of opportunity , heres 90k!
She really is a professional Millennial victim.
When she was young and nipping at heals of the top ladies, she really had something - and surfed like a demon, Then she took the bait hook, line and sinker, and now she's almost a pastiche of woke.
She also needs a new forehand turn. That layback is getting tired. Mikey had the same issue..
You would give her more respect if she said I was to scared to catch anything and Moana flogged me.
Very well stated. Agree entirely. Moana is motivated by the FROTH and it's a pure and beautiful thing. That's what motivates the "real world" surfer (like I'm guessing most of us here) who check the surf every day, studies the synoptic charts, goes on countless trekking missions (often unrewarded), researches: weather, direction, period, tides; at innumerable locations, travels the world searching (used to), and continues to do so at the expense of everything financial and even more.
What's Tyler motivated by?
Yesterday he spent half of the write up of the Men’s finals complaining about the women, today we also don’t get a paragraph on what went on before the brave free speech of Steve Shearer calling a spade a spade! Unsurprisingly we now have the kind of toxic masculinity which has always characterised surfing alive in the comments, sincere props to those women / non-binary folks sticking it out in this hostile environment, created by the Swellnet editorial angle that apparently sees an audience for Joe Rogan style truth tellers with the well pitched dog whistle. I’d been hanging around as the forecast write ups are superior to the competition and having a report from close to the nearest break was good also on occasion, but I think I’m taking a subscription to the competition - their global corporate sheen is certainly no friend, but I’ll take the slightly inferior data and content over the deliberate attempts to create a community of bigotry. Will miss those VIC reports Craig but will enjoy the surfing community in all genders more with more open and inclusive content and fewer dinosaurs…. Times are changing sad to see this platform on the wrong side of history. And it was a historic event, even as Steve in the opening salvo tried to say it wasn’t. Go Moana and all the women it was an inspiring event to watch!!
Lame post to be honest.
If you’re in the public arena, highly paid and don’t perform, be it in sport, business, politics whatever then you are going to get criticised. Male or female.
Toledo and other guys have copped a huge pasting for their effort at Pipe.
On the flip side there has been nothing but praise and compliments for Moana on here, you must of missed that though.
Spot on @goofyfoot.
This is NOT about being female OR male. It's about getting over your fears. It's about being honest and admitting you were shitting in your pants.
I have surfed for close to 40 years in some very heavy waves but I know I would have been scared shitless out there, and would be happy to admit it. Just wonder why so many pros can't get over that hurdle of just admitting your scared. The males who also couldn't get over their fears should and have been roasted just as hard!
Jack Robbo said in an interview last year or so that he was scared of what that place can do to you so fear will ALWAYS play a role at Pipeline [As it should]
I/we look up to these people for facing their fears, not avoiding them. Us average people already do a good enough job at that..lol
I'm disappointed that you're leaving, sbsb - you've contributed nicely to the broader surfing conversation on Swellnet over the years. Thanks for your input.
However, and at risk of further alienation, I've also gotta say I'm disappointed that - despite you regarding Swellnet as the best surf forecast/content website in the world - you're cancelling your subscription because you don't agree with the editorial angle on a surf comp writeup.
What else is editorial independence if not a healthy, vibrant discourse of alternative opinions? You ain't gonna find this level of respectful debate about the WSL anywhere else on the web.
And, your claim that we have 'deliberately attempted to create a community of bigotry' is, well, completely wrong. And, a little insulting, to be perfectly honest.
Anyway, all the best.
Sbsb I think you are over simplifying things. I’ve been watching these comments for a couple of days - and have been interested to see it all unfold. What you have interpreted as bias towards females I have seen as discussion around where the top level of female surfing is at and if adding Pipe to the roster was a good idea. There are many sides to this… I’ll agree with an earlier post that Owens injury may well have played on Tyler’s mind. And as another post said - going on serious waves is all between the ears. Maybe she has some stuff going on there that held her back. But I haven’t heard any vitriolic female hating. SS has called it how he saw it - most of them weren’t up to it at this point in time and the WSL are perhaps a little shell shocked behind closed doors. Or ignorant. Or whatever. But I don’t think he was, or the majority in these comments, were saying female surfers are shit and girls are no good etc etc….. I took another posters advice and went to Beach Grit and had a look….. wow…. Now that will get you going… some real woman hating rubbish over there from keyboard warriors who claim to charge hard!!!
The equal pay debate unfolds in a lot of sports in a lot of mediums… we’ve all chatted about 3 sets and 5 sets in tennis…. So having the discussion doesn’t make you a sexist. And I think the discussion has been had in a reasonably civilized manner on this site made all the more rich by comments by both sides. No need to throw the toy out of the cot over robust discussion. Keep up the good work lads.
That's a real bummer to hear sbsb.
As I said in the opening article, I had too make a decision on the tone of the coverage and I decided to cover it with zero paternalism, strictly as elite athletes on the basis of the performances.
I based this a lot on Women's MMA, which is another heavy, fear based sport.
Womens MMA is covered strictly according to their performance. Great performances are lauded, bad ones are described.
Nothing is glossed over or treated with any condescension whatsoever.
Times are changing and as they happen I'll call it exactly as I see it.
I really can't see any other honest way for a sportswriter to do it.
I completely disagree that is creating a community of bigotry, I've spoken a lot to my wife and teenage daughter about it, and I'm sure they would not characterise it as such either.
I expect Sunset to be a very dfifferent story.
Maybe poke your head back in then?
It would be great to hear further from you.
also, not a Joe Rogan listener- that's well wide of the mark.
It’s hard to conceive of Tyler’s complaint of lack of opportunity at Pipe given that her brothers have spent years surfing the place and she was often paid more highly than they were. Why didn’t she just paddle out with them and learn the ropes?
I don’t imagine little blonde haired Aussie boys are automatically granted the keys to the pipe hierarchy.
Tyler seems to complain about everything
Didn’t hear any other females complaining
There will always be detractors FR. The overwhelming feedback on your reporting is positive. Keep it up!
We want to hear the real story, not the corporate washed version we might find elsewhere.
I'd say I'll pick up a subscription to make up for sbsb leaving, but I already am!
I wouldn't want my mother/wife/daughter anywhere near this website except to view the cams or read the daily surf report.
Agree. I am constantly battling the urge to cancel subscription due to the vitriol in the comments. Is there a way to access the site and switch off the comments?
"Is there a way to access the site and switch off the comments?"
Well yes there is !!!
You access the site but DON'T READ the comments.
Not really that hard pal........
@ringmaster Absolute gold! Thanks for making me laugh so hard I nearly cried.
Vitroil...cmon now FFS
Have a read around at some other sites recent Tyler coverage ...
Get some Grit in your eye for half an hour !
um, don't scroll down.. not hard..
You are tripping though. There is nothing that bad here. I'd invite you to view the comments on any news site, especially those associated with Murdoch to see vile shit.
Rubbish, those sites are moderated, you can say whatever you want on here lol
@Robo. You may want to clarify that.
Go look at the forums
That’s not exactly true about saying what you want, weren’t you sin binned for a while for talking rubbish?
"Will miss those VIC reports Craig but will enjoy the surfing community in all genders more with more open and inclusive content and fewer dinosaurs…. "
Sorry to see you go sbsb. If you go one last time to the latest Vic forecast notes you will see I've added not dinosaurs, but a bulldog, a walrus, a wild boar and a rat.
sbsb,
Interesting post. Reading b/w the lines I assume you are a female surfer. Reading what you said gives a good insight as to why there are very few women on Swellnet, to its detriment, probably the same reason few women feel Pipe is a welcoming lineup. A lot of men are toxic dicks, including me at times in my life, and too often the ones that aren't don't call out the ones that are. I would encourage you to stay on swellnet and keep commenting, you are obviously smart and articulate, something a lot of the big swinging dicks who post on here aren't. It would add a lot to the site. Maybe you write the next womens comp up and send it to Stu. See what he does.
I've found the tone of this thread quite reasonable actually.
One point to offer - any guy paddling out to free surf at pipe for the first time will get zero love. Woman out at Pipe have from my experience been given more slack - guys seem less keen to drop in on a new female face than a male.
Seems there is a bit of confusion between charging that last 2 foot bomb on a 1 foot beachy and 10 foot pipe.
I’d like to think I’d go, it’s different I’m sure in the hot seat.
Could have swung the other way huge in the heats knocking her out then swell drop and the new pipe queen not have an A tail game.
But that’s why we surf the freedom of expression.
Blokes get discriminated against all the time. Doesn’t matter who you are—cop it sweet.
Equal outcomes < equal opportunities
Another good and fair observation of the finals day in Tracks magazine...
https://tracksmag.com.au/moana-jones-wong-the-rise-of-the-pipe-specialis...
They don’t need more time, they need more courage and confidence. You actually need less skill than you think to do anything in this world including surfing big pipe. It’s the willingness to go that gets you there
Love the "hey here's equal pay.........oh yeah FYI you surf Pipe now"
I think they need bigger boards, MJW looked awesome on her gun, she sat 10cm higher in the water than any of the others. Get guns, roll in early get spat out…and look amazing doing it.
Yep the Lopez approach, the length and volume forward in those boards... allowed entry to the wave from a completely different, further out, takeoff.
Moana showed it can be done. I’m going to suggest she is not the strongest women out there, the best paddler, possibly the smallest, but somehow she did it. She did it with style too.
My greatest disappointment is in the way that many of the women didn’t take on the fear in their own heads. The negative thought loops rose out of their heads in the post heat interviews like storm clouds in the distance.
I’ve often thought about what it would be like to be a pro surfer. Whatever else, good rail game, air game, barrel skills, if you aren’t prepared to go on big days you should try another career. Regardless of my skill level (admittedly woeful) it’s the headspace where I would falter. I couldn’t do it, and know my limitations.
But the girls, they have game, they are talented. A lot of them will need mind coaches after this. I really just wanted to hear one or more of them say something like “ you know, I’m scared, but I’m going out there to throw myself over the lip. I’m going to take some beatings, we need this, I need this. This is where I make my stand.”
Fear, it’s a bitch, but only facing it conquers it. They will still have to face it, but now they have this behind them, it will be harder next time.
An old saying I learnt long ago. “Facing it, always facing it, that’s the way to get through it”.
Really wanted to see Johanne go further. An unlucky buzzer beater against Lakey, Johanne has a dig. Don’t know if she goes left though.
has it been the women or the wsl that has pushed for the common venues??? (or both?)
when you listen to the men speak about pipe, they talk about watching, learning, fear, respect etc - but pretty much overwhelmingly there is the desire to go for it!!.....i didn't get that sense for all but a few of the women....seemed like if they had the choice most of them wouldn't have gone out.
Great win MJW - you took it on.
My thoughts as a female surfer, first time commenter.
The women's earlier rounds should have run in the bigger waves. Those surfers with the skillset best suited to the larger conditions would have had the greatest opportunity to progress to the finals.
The impact on season rankings and overall progression of female surfers in bigger and heavier waves, and who qualifies in future years, would hopefully follow.
The men's has sometimes started in great waves only to end in pretty ordinary surf but at least the surfers performing in the conditions that the wave is renowned for have a better chance of progressing when this occurs rather than the opposite.
Given this was the first tour event for the women at pipeline, running the opening rounds in pretty poor surf (for pipe) and then expecting to have the final as a showcase was puzzling. I would rather have seen surfers not going on waves in the early rounds in solid surf and then seeing those that could perform in the bigger stuff progress to the finals, and then having more waves ridden in the finals. They would also have gained experience in the earlier rounds. I also like the idea of overlapping heats with the men.
Regardless though, some of you need to chill out or go for a surf, get over this first event for the women in 2022 and look forward to the rest of the year. At least it will be exciting with a wildcard winning the first event, Steph sadly missing the first event and more new stops for the women.
Second, the equal pay debate is really awful and getting tired. Independent of whether or not athletes should be remunerated in line with other professions, this is a workplace for these women.
Consider this - if female surfers had always had equal prize money available would those of you criticising equal pay have your jocks in a twist? Or is it because it's changing?
Many critics refer to the women not being able to surf as well as the men. This event aside where experience played heavily, what is your criteria for measuring "as well as"?
As a female surfer I love watching the women's tour. If I find myself time-poor I will more commonly watch the women's rounds instead of the men's. The appeal of sport, more than many things, is subjective to the viewers preferences.
Similarly, yes pipe is amazing to watch but I prefer watching firing jbay. Some people like airs, others like carves, and so on. (I'm also going to throw it out there as food for thought.. have many of you noticed how often lately we hear about male surfers becoming new dads while on tour?
And yet I'm pretty sure that no current female tour surfer has kids. I'm not saying that anyone is stopping the women having kids while on tour, and some or many competitors may not want kids either now or ever, simply that it would be damned hard to perform and juggle. As a mother of two very young children, even though I don't surf often any more due to where I live, being pregnant, giving birth, recovering, breastfeeding and being a primary caregiver impacts your surfing for a bit. Would you want to surf 10ft pipe in your first trimester before anyone even knows you're pregnant?
Lastly, it's interesting to see the language being used in discussing Moana's performance and win. Lots of use of the word "joy" and mention of her smiling. As a playful challenge, next time in discussing John or Italo's wins, use "joy" instead of "stoke", and pay attention to, and comment accordingly, whether he is smiling in the tube or not.
During the final, I really appreciated Kelly's constructive criticism of both Tyler's interview comments and Moana's depth in the tube. He didn't dance around or sugar coat it, nor was he aggressive or rude. He expressed his (expert) opinion and delivered it professionally and respectfully. I bring up the language because it's topical in the media at the moment around Grace Tame and Scott and it got me thinking.
I've also put up with my unfair share of being told to smile throughout life :)
“ Many critics refer to the women not being able to surf as well as the men. This event aside where experience played heavily, what is your criteria for measuring "as well as"?”
Really? I can’t recall ever seeing a comment along those lines.
What would an example of this be? Like “John John is a way better surfer than Carissa, he’d smash her in a heat”? Or not that?
Possibly not in this thread but I’ve been following the swell net forums for a while and have read it before. Pretty sure the words not surf as well as have been used. I don’t mind being corrected if wrong. There’s also the specifics of don’t charge as hard, not as powerful, can’t do airs, or similar pop up here and there, particularly as justification for unequal pay. Often as comments directed at women professional surfers in general rather than targeted at one specifically.
Very prevalent in facebook comment sections.
Another reason to get rid of Facebook ld ;-)
Was maybe in here
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/320158
Re this :https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-15/female-surfers-call-for-end-to-se...
Cheers Udo, will take a look
Thanks for your post peppa very refreshing
I think the real hero of pipe in recent times is Bethany Hamilton
Packin mondo huge pipe cones with one arm then coming into to look after her kids on the beach is legendary
I couldn’t even do it with 2 arms nor could most of the keyboard sausage warriors in these comments
Regarding moana tho think people comment that she was smiling as it just looked like she was having so much fun surfing pipe essentially by herself
Found it inspiring to see her progression in a single heat , can’t wait to see more of her surfing in the future
Agree, Moana was definitely having a ball out there and the claims were genuine too - it was inspiring and entertaining. Her comfort level in solid waves will surely set alarm bells off for competitors about what to expect at Tahiti at the very least. ( I’m a bit jaded about the smiling thing also from seeing too many comments on PLB fb photos regularly referring to womens’ smiles while they’re pulling off some brilliant noserides).
Peppa, please don't let this be your first and last contribution / comment. Welcome :)
I've just read the article and all comments, and felt compelled to reply to you, purely for the fact, to me, your comment is reasoned, logical and makes, IME, a couple of substantial points:
1. The early round surf conditions. So true.
2. The 'use of language' and it's influence on tone and inference.
Pregnancy and surfing has, undoubtedly a point of physical and medical limitation, no doubt. I do however know of a few amateur average joe stoked mums who were out in the lineup again within a few weeks of giving birth. Sure, not elite level, but in all cases, the forced time out with 'bun in oven', fueled the joy, oops, stoke, to getting back out their ASAP!
As an aside, I hope to share a peak with you one day. I think the discussion in the lineup between sets could be quite enlightening.
Thanks Wingnut. Yep you’ll hear from me again!
Good point re pregnancy. I didn’t maintain fitness as well as I could have so getting back to surfing could have been easier. During pregnancy I stopped surfing about 3-4 month mark. For me personally and while I’m a longboarder myself, It was largely fear of being hit by a wayward log or beginners and wasn’t worth the risk. I have huge respect for those who surf right through. Good article here too https://www.surfer.com/features/the-art-of-surfing-while-pregnant/
I enjoyed reading this Pepa. Interesting when you talk about the language used and also about pregnancy how the media and commenters would still refer to Bethany surfing Pipe being amazing because she was doing it with a different physical setup to most of us, however the fact she had 3 little ones on the beach, and she as a mum was putting that all on the line, in some super heavy Pipe waves....and she went...was mostly overlooked. I'm just as inspired by that mindset as i am of any physical abilities. Thanks for your input.
Thanks for the feedback blue diamond. I hadn’t considered that perspective either. Given how long Bethany has been charging since she lost her arm, it’s boring that commentary teams mention her disability almost every single heat she surfs. Was stoked to see rip curl extend their sponsorship of her too. Also, it would be interesting to hear if any of the pro mens feelings about surfing heavy waves changed with fatherhood. I know we’ve heard from some about the toll of travelling so much and being away from families.
Weren't we all just waiting for this article after the WSL scheduled the women at Pipe? I guess someone had to write it.
Did anyone really expect people (let's forget the gender for a second) who have next to no experience riding one of the deadliest and gnarliest waves in the world to suddenly start arse-slipping into thumping lefthand barrels there? Of course not. Man or woman, who would?
But let's call out their cowardice (sorry, lack of desire) for not having a go. It's not as if anything could go wrong if they just gave it a go. I fully expect all of you chargers to be dropping in deep as f@ck if you even get the chance to have a go. Why not, eh?
It's a passtime for "all us chargers" Stephen, not a profession. I'm allowed to use piss poor preparation, fear, etc as a cop out of charging pipe. Pros are too, it's just less acceptable.
Fair point. But expecting them to do what the blokes do is hard to take when the women wouldn't get a look in at big Pipe. Especially if you aren't a local. Even down here in Vic, I don't see anyone letting women take waves off them at serious spots. Let's be honest here, it's a sausage fest at most good wave spots and the owners of those sausages usually ain't for sharing waves with those who don't have a sausage of their own. Surfing is rife with gender inequality. That has to change before we see women even having a chance at having a proper go at Pipe. No wonder they opt for longboards and chilled out breaks!
“ Even down here in Vic, I don't see anyone letting women take waves off them at serious spots. ”
Comment like this kinda shit me.
I reckon Stephen you’ve appointed yourself as the gender equality warrior and think it’s your job to make ridiculous comments like this one.
So you see guys let other guys take waves off them? What ever that means..
And this - “ it's a sausage fest at most good wave spots and the owners of those sausages usually ain't for sharing waves with those who don't have a sausage of their own. ”
Wtf! How do you come up with this stuff??
Again, you see guys sharing waves with each other in good waves?
Fuck I sure as hell don’t see that, surfings one of the most selfish “sports” you can do.
People like you leave me stunned.
Do you think guys should give women waves just because they’re women?
Guy or girl you aren’t just entitled to any wave you want.
My point is: You can't bag the women for not having a good go a Pipe if they would never get a good go on any day outside the comp. It's an unrealistic expectation that they are just going to rock up and start surfing it like it's their local. That was the point. That's all. Not a gender equality warriors. Just in favour of logical arguments.
2 seperate arguments. 1. Having a good go. 2. Start surfing it like it’s their local.
1 yes I do expect, as they have the time, money and prior knowledge to come up with a strategy on how to surf their heat in big scary pipe. Tyler's might be to just score high off backdoor. If that's her professional strategy then whatever, I think it sucks, but it's better than saying you don't prepare for a comp because it's annoying.
2. Don't expect that right now but eventually yes
Nobody can just rock up and get waves at pipe - male or female. How many of the young guys who charged in this comp would be let near a set on a good day?
I reckon Carissa especially would have a way better chance of getting a few given she is a local than the young aussies and Brazzos. Your argument is fundamentally flawed.
.
I guess that the logic would apply a lot better if they were just travelling surfers like the rest of us, Stephen. I'm buggered if I know how anyone could rock up to Pipe (or Sunset, Velzyland, Maalea, Acid Drops or anywhere else in Hawaii) and expect to get a crack at set waves without the time to show and (hopefully) receive the necessary respect.
As others have said, if they were committed and/or keen there are a few other options to hone their skills in readiness for Pipe. Given that they are supposed to be the elite, I think Steve S has some very valid points.
At the end of the day, if I was looking to receive a hefty pay cheque for paddling out there then I like to think I'd honour the arrangement and have a go at a couple at least. Nobody is forcing anyone to be a pro surfer, after all.
Have seen this allot of times in very mediocre waves, same goes for saying g'day to to a surfer for 20yrs who can't even reply when he occasionally makes an appearance. The point is their is allot of self absorbed fuck wits in the world and in every local scene. Happy to ignore it, too a point. Got nothing to do with gender in some cases. Some very mild mannered surfers might behave very differently if you take a shitty approach to some line ups with a free for all attitude. And so they should. in regards to Stephens comment.
"Did anyone really expect people (let's forget the gender for a second) who have next to no experience riding one of the deadliest and gnarliest waves in the world to suddenly start arse-slipping into thumping lefthand barrels there? Of course not. Man or woman, who would?"
It has been happenning with tour rookies for decades. Many more afraid of the repercussions of not going on their career, than fear of the wave or reef.
Nice Peppa ..thanks.
+1
Thanks for the insight Peppa
T. Wright has also come back from a long bout of illness that renderered her unable to get to the beach, let alone surf. Surely we can cut the ladies some slack.
Well articulated commentary throughout the event however with the intent to put the sword into womens surfing at any opportunity, sad but true that this male biased perspective always plays out, especially in these forums.
WSL makes heaps of mistakes but this whole event will go down in 'history' as one to remember not just for Kelly GOAT heroics, but the women that started what will surely get better in coming years.
P.S. I certainly wouldn't do my best surfing at Pipe, and would not have gone out in those waves. How many of us would?
aussiead - go over to the sausage fest story on the Grit
read the comments.
Equal Pay.
Run the prizemoney based upon $$$ for points, from say the Quarter finals on ... $2000 per point, so a total potential of $40,000 per heat. Surf the quarters, win, get say $36,000 with a couple of 9's, Surf the Semi, do it again, another $36,000, and then win the final, with another $36,000.
Let's see how the men and women focus their attention and performance accordingly.
Equal pay for equal job / performance.
Oh yeah, and run the mens and womens events concurrently with overlapping heats. ;)
Bit of a problem if the conditions turn crap for your heat and max score is 3 compared to an hour ago when that heat was trading 9s and 10s
Theoretical discussion really, 'cause we know the wizzle won't do it, but for the sake of the idea, while I understand that aspect @SurferSam, the 'concept' is $$$ for points for the quarters on ...
a. surely any half decent contest director with all available technology and forecasting can run the quarters on in the best, and relatively consistent and 'equal' conditions, and
b. with $$$ only for points, surely the competitors will be pushing the contest director to run the quarters on in the best possible conditions, and
c. the best, better, surfers tend to make an average wave turn into a higher scoring option due to THEIR ability, so once again, the system would reward the performance.
Equal pay, equal performance.
As an aside, imagine the furore, over under or over scored waves!
A decade later I still regret a few amazing waves I piked in Indo - no-one really remembers but me. Sometimes you just have to go despite the fear.
Moana can hum this tune with pride for the rest of her days.
Non, je ne regrette rien
Jeez, what I'd give to .........gain confidence and practice going Left .........at totally uncrowded,8-10 foot pipeline with safety teams on the beach........ !!
I love sinking the boot into sports stars as much as the next person.
But cut Tyler some slack. She was bed ridden with chronic pain from Post Viral Syndrome and Depression for over a year at the height of her career. The fact that she came back from that to full strength means more to me than her packing a few at Pipe. Then on top of that her big bro was quite literally nearly killed at the Banzai and lost all cognitive function for over a year which must of been an extremely traumatic event for her. I agree her performance was weak and she will never improve if she never takes the risk but I'm sure the trauma of Owen's injury played a part as she looked over the ledge and pulled back time and time again.
Give her time and she will probably be packing some bombs in a few years once she gets over this personal barrier.
Tyler did pack one big back door cone on finals day and earned the highest wave score of the day
If she could do that consistently she prob would have won
Yeah but her performance at Pipe was undeniable... undeniably non-existent.
She looked terrified of Pipe and only caught one measly left the whole contest. Until she gets comfortable at Pipe her performance will be extremely limited.
Yep what a comeback, inspiring - both Tyler and Owen.
Lost all cognitive function for over a year? He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't think he was brain dead for 12+ months.
Yeah fair point, perhaps I slightly exaggerated but please enlighten me if you have the inside scoop?
It was all pretty hush hush but my understanding was he did have bleeding to the brain and required full time care for a while and had to relearn to talk etc.
My point was that surfing aside, it would of been a tough personal experience for Tyler to watch a loved have bleeding to the brain and not even be able to talk and be unsure if there ever gonna get better.
I don't think many people are gonna just rock up to the scene of the crime at Pipe and start sending it when you have those memories of your big brother copping a serious head injury.
At the Roxy Pro, sister Tyler cited Owen’s accident as a source of inspiration for her to fulfil her dreams of securing her first world title. “I was on my brother’s shoulders and they whispered to me, ‘Hey look up the top there’ It was Owen… and he’s so not meant to be here but he was like, ‘I wouldn’t miss this for the world’… To be honest I think the reason I was able to do what I did here was through the last couple of months of experience. It’s made everything so simple and so clear.”
Roxy Pro as in Snapper? Not sure how that's relevant as there is a pretty big difference between surfing a soft Gold Coast point break and some Pacific juice at Pipeline.
Those that were "tanking", not catching waves to save themselves for the next contest should be penalised. In sport the aim is to try to win. By paddling out and not even trying to catch anything substantial, that could be seen as throwing the result. Deliberately losing. Tyler after the heat "I wasn't really trying to win, I think it's more important to save myself for Sunset." She should be banned from Sunset for that shit. What happens if Sunset gets too big for her? Whinge and moan about how she can't practice out there because it's all a sausage fest again?
They need their own tour, so they can choose their own locations where they all want to surf. No one wants to see them sitting wide too scared to go near a wave. That's embarrassing.
Moana made the best in the world all look like learners
Truama of Owens head injury......but she could have worn a Helmet?
The Winner did.
Chas Smith has some gossip about Owens head injury. Too scared to release it though apparently
He has mentioned a couple of specific things on the grit about it a number of years ago
I'm sorry but Chas Smith isn't a credible source. He is a professional shit stirrer.
Yeah a Gath might help but you still need to have the drive and desire to send it over the ledge which we can all agree Tyler didn't have at Pipe.... Not yet anyway. Give it time.
In breaking news, Lakey has bought a house close to Todos Santos.
Another dismal display by the women exception Moana who absolutely gave the
worlds best female surfers a schooling. Congratulations to Moana.
They wanted a chance to surf real pipe and now the world is asking WHY.
Embarrassing would be the only call I could give, theyre supposed to be the
best female professional surfers in the world fine well back it up ,all your
whingeing, carry ons and give us a go for what a complete and utter fail.
Do we have any SNAGS amongst our C Tor Q S surfers
ones that may be offended by Tylers ' Sausage Fest ' comment.
Fcuk being a SNAG - I'm a caring, understanding nineties type.
FWIW regarding Tyler, i walked past her on the path near the underpass at Sharpes one day, she was heading back home from a swim, surf was crap, said a quick hello, she was a delightful and happy young woman. Didn't seem to have a chip on her shoulder in the slightest and was one of the most open and genuine people i've come across. Maybe she carries herself differently in the spotlight, but face to face, she's an A1 human.
Good on Moana 1000% deserving, she looked like she wanted it and was enjoying being out there, great to see locals making both finals too..
Is there any footage of the Woman's final?...or is it going to be kept hidden?
WSL Heat analyzer has it up.
Tyler has runs on the board - remember her at big P pass a few years ago , she fucken charged it with some big pits . also a clip doing the rounds a couple of years ago in some real chunky beachies , standing tall in some serious caverns if I remember right .
Its really NOT a gender thing - have a look at some of the canings Toledo has copped here over the years with his (non) performance at Chopes and Pipe . And the 2 Aussies who didn't paddle out at massive Waimea all those years ago , still gets brought up ! Other pros over the years being labelled " small wave specialists " etc etc .
Just heard today about Liam O'brien , broke his leg on the morning of the first day of competition . 3 months plus out of the water . there goes his season before it even started .
Yep. Good points. Also on the flipside of that you can be remembered forever for making a name for yourself on such days. MR at Waimea for the Billabong Pro back in the 80s, Jeremy Flores at Chopes on a big year, Tom Carroll in any Pipe Masters but especially '91, Willow Hardy taking on proper MainBreak and charging last year, Sally Fitz with the broken ear drum and winning at solid Cloudbreak.
Yeah bummer about Liam Obrien. Didn't hear the actual story of how it happened. Thought the story would be worthy of reporting.
I disagree that MJW won't have an advantage at Teahupoo.
I think she will have a massive advantage if she can figure out deep take-off spots and is prepared to pack sets.
That take-off is even scarier than Pipe when it's over 8ft.
I also think her turns were pretty crisp and could easily see her making heats at any decent G-Land, especially if judges pay barrels well, as they should.
Interested to see how she goes at Sunset but a lot of the field has winning experience there, including Tyler, and Carissa.
I think a few of the rookie girls have some big turns in the arsenal which would suit Sunset.
What the fck did commentator mean at 3.50 ?
Much ado about nothing. In 5 years women will be charging Pipe. At that time, this event will be seen for what it is...the beginning
WSL will need to change their rules going forward, Any competitor who goes up in the rankings should be able punt the lower hanging fruit from the race, this will give all wild cards a decent reason for giving it a decent go. And more incentive to charge for those on the border.
And also there should be more wild cards in the events to make it interesting.
Now we have a real bloodsport.
General question: Howcome Pipe isn't one of the easier places to learn the line up, putting fear and crowds aside. It's highly documented, there's a big obvious boil that everyone seems to sit Infront of (this time of year at least), buildings to mark your position off, 2 reefs which break as indicators. I have seen it shifty at times on a live stream so I know it's not perfect. But it has a lot going for it too
I reckon from looking at footage it jacks up like no other wave on the planet with that exaggerated peak before ledging out and turning into a thick heaving tube. Paddling into it, dropping into it looks like it requires extreme commitment and extreme skill. Without that, it can all fall apart pretty quickly.
I still don't think alot of spectators appreciate just how heavy a wave it is over 8foot. 10foot, beyond serious. Bede knows it...this one nearly killed him.
That's not to mention the human factor. There's a reason they didn't surf it for a long time til the 60's. Was considered unsurfable. Someone above commented that it doesn't take a year or two to get used to it, it takes years upon years of experience. I think this is one of those few surfbreaks in the world where this rings true.
Would be interested in thoughts of those that have tackled it.
Pipe is perfect and then it is not , surfing or watching it from the beach you see one perfect one and then the next one in the same set is nuts and will kill you , changes so much with swell direction and Hawaii can get swell directions from 360 degrees (unlike WA,s regular barely 45degree range unless there is a cyclone) I,ve seen big summertime south swells wrap all the way around the island to look like a west swell , hurricane east swells that look like north swells etc, amazing really. Sand on the reef makes a big difference too, thats why this contest later in the season has been so good compared to some comps in december when the beach is really big and its really close to shore and backwashy ( a good comparison is WA beachies and how much sand movement changes them) . Well worth the trip BD if and when travel ever resumes.
Cheers MH for the feedback. Sounds insane. Crazy how it has so many faces. The women's final was held in some pretty big and sketchy Pipe. It didn't look perfect! ha.
Hawaii definitely has got a magnetic draw to it. Sounds like an epic experience.
Yeah cheers.
Pretty simple BD Hawaii is the best surfing destination in the world IMHO the vibe
the respect the aloha its there and its great. The other reason is the variety of the different
waves its endless. Im filthy that Ive missed the last two seasons because of the Chinese
planned demic im not Michael Ho and have ran out of time. Indo has its perfection,
Europe has fantastic waves, South America has good fun waves and Australian has some
great waves spoiled a lot by crowd and local bad vibes feel more at home and comfortable
on the Nth shore than anywhere except my home point break. I really miss Hawaii.
Pipe well its just a gladiator pit my sons go not mine anymore over 8ft.
How the the locals put up with the thousands of waanabees every year is a credit to their
ALOHA.
Great stuff Evosurfer. Sounds like you've put in some time over there. Mate, sounds unreal. Thanks heaps for you and MH for sharing. Hopefully you get back over there sooner rather than later.
In Carissa’s post final interview she sarcastically joked about Sunset “oh great, another heavy wave”
I liked her openness about being scared, she even admitted to having a cry before one heat.
But then apparently she was first out in the dark every day of the week no matter what the size. Facing her fears.
Some of those backdoor waves she got were big and heavy as. We seem to be quite critical of the lefts where Moana had the forehand advantage. Can’t recall her getting solid rights….
Just a thought...
I totally understand how a lack of experience surfing Pipe leads to a lack of confidence in the lineup, knowing where to sit, which waves to catch etc.
But aisde from Moana, the other semi-finalists just looked like they weren't comfortable in super heavy waves. Very surprising for Carissa, kinda surprising for Tyler, less surprising for Lakey. Maybe it was just that particular day, I dunno.
Anyway, isn't it a fair assumption that surfers who spend lots of time surfing heavy waves will eventually become comfortable in these kinds of surroundings, no matter the location? Once a level of comfort is achieved in heavy water, they'll be able to more quickly workout the lineup at a break Pipe (when there's only one other person in the water).
So.. instead of hoping that there'll be an opportunity to spend some quiet time at Pipe working things out - which, let's be honest, there won't be - how about a couple of months each year in the Canary Islands, or Mexico, or West Oz, or Tahiti, or wherever - getting familiar with heavy surf. Maybe they already do this? I am not sure.
It works both ways too. I haven't seen her surf anywhere else, but I suspect if Moana wants a serious crack at the WSL, she's gonna have to get off the North Shore and spend time working out Bells, Trestles, Margs et, plus time surfing a range of average beachies to cope with Rio and worst-case Portugal scenarios.
There was something very good going on with Moana's board (I think it's been mentioned). Easy paddle in so the drop seemed to be taken before it pitched, very little water displaced on the front rails through the hollow sections as it went at speed while she rode forward; with great hold; so extremely efficient, very clean. The board appeared to have both sufficient volume (mentioned above) and seemed to keep a fair bit of that volume in the tail. Also, a quad - that's a clean sweep for quads at Pipe this year: subtle differences in the setups of the rear fins between her and Kelly's boards.
Pretty exciting times in design!
Tyler's wave at backdoor too, was a beauty. I'll have to watch more as I get time.
"I'm such and such and I'm a professional surfer"
how embarrassing for you
So much has been said in these comments. To be honest I am too busy to watch these comps full time. So, I just watched a finals day highlight which is 1 minute 23 seconds long. The whole action fits in less than a minute and a half.
x 1 wave by Tyler
x 1 wave by Carissa
x 0 waves by Lakey
x few waves by Moana
To me, that's just not good enough to warrant being glued to the screen for hours. Good for girls to have a comp at Pipe but to be honest I always watched Honolua Bay as I found it very entertaining + the last event of the season timeline was great. WSL will need to work out their product mix if they want fence-sitters like me to tune in. There are so many things fighting for our attention and this is not the one I am willing to commit to.
A serious question to give me some perspective as I've never surfed in Hawaii and something I've always wondered - I've surfed Aussie Pipe in all different sizes and conditions and never felt daunted - how similar is it to pipeline? - there must be a reason it got it's nickname. I realise of course that Blackrock loses shape over 6ft so that comparison can't be made
It should be called mini pipe or summercloud rather than aussie pipe as its really just a mini pipeline on a good day but nothing like heavy pipeline on the north shore...as much as i think pipeline is over rated...id rather surf skeleton bay or anywhere in indo than pipeline.
For bodyboarding i think shark island is a better bodyboarding wave than pipe too just a bit fickle.
Really enjoyed all the write-ups by freeride. Sports journalism without opinion and controversy is a bit stale, dry and boring!
Really hope to see that Moana girl at Chopes and g-land. Her surfing was a breath of fresh air and style.
Not stirring the pot but immediately under Udo's last post I had a pop-up ad "Nice Rack in Toowoomba". Looks nice in Hawaii too.
When most of us go surfing its man vs wave, man vs ocean
But pro surfing is mano y mano. Doesn’t matter what the wave is doing, as long as you’rer better than your competitor.
Man on man. Woman on woman. Grom on grom.
The tennis comparison is often thrown around. Five sets vs three. Fair enough, but its still mano y mano. Tennis. Golf. Swimming?
The best female tennis players don’t serve as fast as the best men
The best female golfers dont drive as far as the best men
Moana wasn’t surfing against Kelly
Tyler wasn’t surfing against Seth
Yeah the waves are the playing field.
Surely the contest is between the competitors.
Not sold on her myself yet.
Brett68 you couldnt compare aussi pipe with Hawaii pipe Ive been to the Nth shore a couple
of dozen times and surfed Aussi pipe a lot back in the day in all sizes. Pipe its the take off its beyond
step and sucky then you have to deal with the size, power, speed and shear volume of water after
that you have the bottom to contend with its not sharp like our reefs but you hit it with such force
it can do serious damage or easily kill you. Aussi pipe is great fun but not at all death like.
My mates girlfriend would rip and charge all over most of the girls on tour at Pipe yet doesnt even have a sponsor.
I forget her name though.
But from what ive seen of her in indo, complete charger and rips too.
She also scored a wave of the day on swellnet a few years ago.
Awesome!