Submitted by indo-dreaming on Wed, 12/09/2020 - 06:59
Fitzroy-21 made a good point in the other thread. (cut & pasted below)
"Years ago, we used to all post quite freely on here with opinions and thoughts on some great discussions. There would be some great piss takes, laughter and occasionally things would need to be reigned in if it got a little heated. It was just that, opinions and thoughts. Didn’t hurt anyone, gave an insight into differences and views you may not have previously considered.
Lately it has just become a toxic shit show. The amount of times I have written out a post to then just delete it, shut the lap top and walk away because I just couldn’t be fucked with the stupidity. There a now a couple of posters that have just ruined the whole culture of the place. The fact is, these posters are not just ordinary, run of the mill vanilla fuckwits, they are A-grade top shelf fuckwits. Swellnets self-appointed sheriffs.
I can only imagine what would have happened if old mate Wellymon had bought up the subject of bigfoot/sasquatch these days."
I agree with him, it has become toxic, a little banter is fine and we are all human, but there is some posters, we know who they are that 90% of post are just toxic and attacking, and surely regularly break the rules of the forum???
Other posters who use to post things of substance now just throw in pointless one line snipes, even those who still post with substance have got much more aggressive.
Im not saying im without my faults either, it is hard sometimes to ignore all the crap and it is much easier to get aggressive when others are constantly being aggressive towards you.
Anyway personally i think it sucks, but off course some will try to justify things because, the posters they are attacking views are this or that. (as you will see in comments below)
Ones i can see regularly broken.
2. Don't create social chaos. If we ask you to cut out some shit you're doing, do as we say.
6. No personal attacks against other users. Make your point without making things personal or insulting other people, even people who don't visit this website (see Point 1).
Be already broken one of those this morning when I accused Elo of being an AI spokes bot.
Sorry Elo !
Keep the club going
Balls of fire
Does anyone actually believe that Snuffy Smith is not a Facto profile?
I do not GAF .
He isn’t overtly antagonistic so it’s a moot point. If Facto acted like Snuffy all the time this would be a much better site.
Ha Indo mate off the mark again and not the first time or the last.Here's my take the way I see it.The seriousness the need to comment on everything the opinionated way of thinking that some have on here leave themselves open for needling and criticism.If you don't fit in the "Clubs" think tank your open to ridicule even threats.Its a surf website forum it's not a mouthpiece for hate or any other agenda that has seeped in over the course of the last couple of years and when it pops up it will get called out.Some on here get caught out time and time again and do not like it one bit obviously.
please stu save me .......
Edit: It’s not the forums turning to crap it’s just heightened intolerance to the same old crap being constantly regurgitated.
I dont believe you Snuffy, but it doesn't really matter, lets leave if there.
The argument that it will be called out is BS, we all call out what we believe is BS that is not what we are talking about.
If people stuck to topic and just called out things in a half civil manner it wouldn't be an issue.
But some people dont even bother engaging in any type of debate, they just engage in blatant personal attacks or endless lame cheap trolling. (often a sign that they don't have decent counter argument or know they have lost or will lose the debate)
Im not just talking about the people i don't like or dont agree with, almost everyone has become noticeably more aggressive including the people i like or agree with, i even feel it myself, which is of no surprise we are all human if people personally attack or troll you time after time its hard to ignore especially if you are tired or bad mood etc.
Some people have moved on like Blindboy obviously frustrated by it, and it was quite obvious he took a if you can't beat them join them attitude when last around, but i guess he got sick of that too.
Basically if you dont agree with someone and cant be bothered having a civil debate or you are sick of the topic, maybe just ignore the comment or change the topic.
And we all know the difference between what im talking about and a little niggle or banter.
BTW. If you think there is hate speech or whatever posted here, im sure Stu will delete the post if it really is hate speech, maybe bring it to his attention next time.
Well I got called a *[email protected] and other things in the shark eyes comments simply for putting forth an opinion that didn’t match that of others
Pretty funny really ,,,,water off a ducks back - I’m in my 40s and fail to give a shit what others think
But doesn’t inspire me to comment more ha
Hey mate, your opinions were more accusations, both to me that I was taking payment for the article (I didn't reply but it pissed me off), and to Shanan that he was cashing in on shark fear.
For someone who's been through what he has it was a callous thing to say and you had zero evidence to back anything up.
Don't want to comment here anymore? Our pleasure...
Roger that good sir. I apologise if I offended
'I dont believe you Snuffy, but it doesn't really matter, lets leave if there.'
It does really matter, you are making accusations of lying against snuffy, that have no truth at all in them, just because he expressed his view which is different to yours, and because he highlights some truths.. He isn't facto, so rather than admit that you are wrong, and apologize, you just sail on ignorantly and insincerely, wanting to be protected, and wallowing in your obvious protection. You, and as blowblow highlighted, are actually the very problems that you are ranting about.
Ludicrous, in a nut shell.
Loop de loop.
From the good news thread just the other day:
"So again, you say, 'BTW. Im no expert but', so, why are you even commenting here? Why feel the constant need to offer totally uniformed, ignorant comment...again..."
Spot on and to the point.
I reckon there could be a meme in that for all threads and occasions that'll save everyone a lot of precious time."
Curious then...you comment as much as ID, so what field(s) are you an expert in?
I comment as much as Info Dreemin'??
And surely Stuart, you've got that arse about. The question is 'what am I definitely, in no way, shape or form, even a bit beyond the usual corporate media regurgitation, NOT an 'expert' in...
and yet, strap yourselves in, here's my rupiah's worth...'
The comment i said "im no expert" was in relation to a personal attack on a photo of Blowins physic.
I was not saying what Herc had said was not true, its his area of knowledge, and im sure Herc could find similar faults in any photo of anyones physic here.
The point was though, that Blowin is obviously in decent shape for a guy in his late 40's stats show most males of his age are obese or overweight and im sure 99% of people would agree, only ones that wouldn't would be people who have personal issues with Blowin
Anyway i just didnt think it was fair to critic him in that manner, if Blowin was a women everyone would have been in uproar for body shaming
Anyway a bit weird talking about Blowins physic again :D
"Im not that political savy, but..."; "I don't follow it and I'm not that academic or savy with politics, but..."; "I'm not _ _ _ _ _ _, but..."
Yes, the one but not only, Indo Dreamin'"
Anyway, when the time to procrastinate ain't what it used to be, a meme can do the paint job much quicker than wasting words on the various 'dead cats' served up daily by the usual stooges.
Are you Mediawatch for Swellnet? Trawling through past threads, looking for the inconsistencies, the gotcha moments....on a surf site.
Your time is yours, yet it hasn't made a lick of difference to those your target so why do you bother?
for mine there seemed to a correlation between the pandemic kicking off and the posting quality, ahem, dipping.
the extra angst people were feeling seemed to translate into their posting and otherwise reasonably sane and rational people started going a bit rah rah
from there it seemed to snowball a bit and here we are
perhaps (& hopefully) things will level out a bit once we put 2020 in the rear view mirror
And this is what I was getting at.
Constantly regurgitating something someone said back in 2018. Really? I'm pretty sure they get the picture. Fucken get over it.
And I'll wait for the regurgitated slipper meme, so effective.
Re: Are the <insert website name> forums turning to crap?
Having been a part of many active forums since about 1998, I reckon this topic has appeared on every single one of 'em, often many times over.
What a ya saying Ben? Does info get around that much?
At least Indo offers his opinion and is happy to discuss a differing opinion. I don’t agree with a lot that he says but at least you can read what he puts forward and you understand his take on things.
I’m not smart enough to know what the condition is called (don’t not learn much at skool) when all you post are meme’s and “witty” comebacks and one-liners, and never contribute to a topic but fuck it gets old pretty quick
I haven't posted on another internet forum all year.
Pretty clear that's not Ben was implying
Anyway threads not about me, its Fitzroys comment that i agree with and thought needed more attention.
I am surprised if people don't think things have got more toxic though
People change, groups change, environmental conditions change.
I slowly stopped using the Ski.com.au and Weatherzone forums sometime around '06 - 08' ish as they weren't the same as when I'd signed up almost ten years prior. But, ski.com.au is still very active - people come and go (though lots stay, I always remember it being a great community). Weatherzone's forum has been closed down, which is a massive shame as it was an enormous wealth of content, ideas and inspiration (and a lot of shit too).
Also worth noting that right across the web, the toxicity of conversations has ramped up over the last four or five years - IMO accelerated by social media, who have wrapped a business model around it.
So, I'm not quite sure how to deal with this on Swellnet.
I've always wanted our forums to be an accurate reflection of the surf community. And, for better or for worse, the incredibly diverse, extreme (and to be honest, fucking annoying at times) range of viewpoints appears to be exactly that - a snapshot of surfers right around the country. It's certainly not what I expected when I started Swellnet almost twenty years ago. But we all come from very different backgrounds and have a different take on just about everything.
I have never wanted to suppress opinions that I don't agree with - I believe that we can all learn something when we hear all sides of the debate - but where exactly do you draw the line? And how much time and effort should we spend babysitting people who should know better? The forums' own form of self-moderation has worked reasonably well but there's always room for improvement.
But, I'd rather spend time, money and effort on improving our surf content and services.
One other point: everyone has an opinion on everything (including our forums), and they're entitled to it. But, as a rule I usually take advice from people qualified to do so. In this case, it'd be another media owner (preferably running a website for a niche sport, like surfing) who makes the same kind of business decisions I have to.
I'll run the counter-argument here.
I think surf forums, including this one, have generally become more civil and informative over the years, especially when put into context against Twitter/FB etc etc.
this year has got a bit narcky, but scroll on if it doesn't suit.
I still find plenty here to get stoked on.
Surfing has changed. Society has changed. So of course, forums change. You've changed, Indo. You used to be about verns bakery pig outs after a session at kawana pocket. Now you're a far right fascist. But that's ok . Your choice. Just stop crying that some of us aren't that way. Go ahead and write your anti refugee anti aboriginal anti gay marriage anti Labor essays. But don't cry when you get challenged. It's called free speech remember :)
In regards to some FORCED changes, I do miss putting my 2 bobs worth in the forecasts for SEqld since Ben pay walled it. I take my old sea dog knowlege of that part of the world elsewhere now.
And I miss the politico threads being hidden from view. That would've been unheard of back in the days of Tracks magazine. But yeah stifling and hiding debate is the new black
"And I miss the politico threads being hidden from view. That would've been unheard of back in the days of Tracks magazine. But yeah stifling and hiding debate is the new black"
Please point me to the community/political discussions on Tracks. Or any other surf site, for that matter.
Oh, and the comments of the Forecaster Notes aren't paywalled. Plenty of discussion happens there from both subscribers and non-subscribers. Would love to have your opinion in the mix but totally understand if you'd prefer not to.
I'm still seeing lots of good stuff being posted, and still for the most part liking the diversity of views being put out there.
Lot of crap too - gold and muck come outta the same shaft, 'twas ever thus.
Ratio of crap to gold might have shifted the wrong way a little over the last couple of months, but that's not really surprising. A lot of people have had a pretty shitty year, and even those who haven't been too hard done by are missing some of the usual pressure reliefs - no wonder people have been venting a bit more often on here. Add to that the growing political divisiveness in our society, and no wonder there's been some butting of heads and name calling. That's people.
Very few regular posters on here I wouldn't buy a beer and have a yarn with if I bumped into them down the pub.
Edit: Didn't read your post before I wrote, Synchro. Reckon you nailed it.
He who hesitates is lost
good anya sheepdog, maybe...
I think swellnet's woes can be explained by this article
I know the 'no platformers' will take in nothing, and get all defensive and reactionary... again... because it's nyp and joe rogan... but hey, I gave up on those froot loops long ago...
"...At the same time, a progressive antipathy towards Rogan is reaching new heights of hysteria — not because the 53-year-old podcaster is some kind of dogmatic, Trump-supporting conservative. Far from it. Rather, he is a progressive-minded thinker supportive of LGBT rights, a woman’s right to choose, and drug legalization who also consistently challenges the orthodoxies of the left, such as the more concerning dogmas of trans advocacy, the excesses of the #MeToo movement, and the popular conflation of Trump’s most egregious characteristics with the millions of Americans who voted for him. "
"...For those heavily invested in political narratives, Rogan’s platform presents a mortal threat — a grave transgression to their narrow-minded thought bubbles and ideological safe spaces. Unlike many ideologues, Rogan daringly humanizes perspectives that deviate from his own. “I like being proven wrong,” he said in a recent episode. "
"...Over the past decade, Western discourse has degenerated into detractive identity politics, woke slacktivism, and spiraling ideological intolerance. Mainstream media networks have only fueled the fire, drumming up sensationalist headlines that exploit political division along racial and gender lines. "
...it's all about 'the narrative', and some self appointed sherriffs that want to control it...
(contrary to any former 'value' we saw in free speech, ...and the much touted freedoms and democratic values some saw in the early days of the internet)
...ain't that the truth!!
Time to reflect on the year that was/wasn't?
I'm with Synchro: Just a shitty year manifesting itself in all manner of ways.
And Pops: Buy yers a beer.
These forums are still good and increasingly unique in that views will not be censored out by ideology, and that the forums attract all viewpoints. Or both sides, if you prefer.
Information has splintered, so you go to Website X and get a progressive ideology, go to Website Y and get a conservative ideology. Stay at either and get reinforced. Not so at Swellnet, you get a mix still, and hopefully sharing of new ideas/testing of ideas.
I try to see the best in everyone. When the travel/surf pics are mixed in, people here have had some pretty incredible life experiences. Pops thank you for the inspiration on the flow side of things. MB, the idea of a balanced strengthening of the body has been profound for a guy who would just swim to build up for surfing. Zen's news from Japan is always a good read. TBB - legend. Quite a few of us have been university educated to be able to analyse information, develop a synthesis of it, and argue a viewpoint based on it.
And yep, traumatic year, from before the virus with the bushfires. I still don't know what will go on in the US coming into January, but shite will be flung in all directions nonetheless. And shite in the big relationship to the north. At least we can go surfing/appreciate nature.
In future: I'd love to follow up on the native foredune vegetation/better sand banks articles. Then we can form a Mad Max convoy of beach buggies and rip up all the Marram grass in a revolution that will create perfect A frames and happy, caring people who get pitted often.
Stu, careful, might hold ya to that ;)
VJ, where do I sign up for this utopia?
well I agree with pops and synchro too, the pandemic exacerbated everything....
but it all just fell into familliar patterns, where if one wants to question some of the craziness, and crazy measures enacted to the pandemic, one is met with the same tired old routine and reactions...
I notice facto never really defended some of the over the top politicisation of the pandemic and it's various changes in dogmatic narrative, a credit to him, I suspect he is intelligent enough to see some it has proven to be a bit hoaxy and totally over hyped, ...and just kinda dumb really...
Ha ha far right fascist?
My views are extremely moderate, centre right at best.
But hey maybe its far right wing or fascist to desire people to be half civil half tolerant and half respectful of each other? Rather than act like 13 year old boys calling each other names and trolling every post.
Again this topic is not about me at all, i couldn't care less if people agree with my views, i like to debate with people so it would be boring if everyone here held conservative views, im just sick of those that avoid discussion or civil debate and randomly throw insults around instead.
BTW. Im pro indigenous i just don't agree that blaming indigenous problems on white fella or colonialism helps anything, it hasn't helped one indigenous person yet and i doubt it ever will, it does avoid looking at the real reasons behind indigenous problems though.
Im also pro refugee i have no issue with refugees or our intake quota or even an increase in the quota, i do have a problem with the uneducated views of people like you that have zero understanding of the issue and are part of the problem, you would much rather see a family who are no longer refugees and safe to go home take spots of other refugees, because? the community likes them? Yeah great reason (pretty clear you dont understand how temporary protection visas work)
Im anti labor but not as much as you may think and why is it an issue being anti labor?...most here are clearly anti LNP, yeah id rather the LNP be in government but both major parties can do the job, it's the left fringes parties i fear like the Greens and their influence on Labor fair to say im strongly anti Greens..
Taking the internet too seriously is something I'm fortunate enough not to have worry about. You don't have to buy in to the BS if you choose not too,, and as far as insults go , some are funny , others just downright juvenile. Either way , the forum will never be perfect , but it's the only one I've got any time for .. Cheers to swellnet and all the contributors , whether your an opinionated know all prick , an industry guru , a local legend ,, or just a dumb faarkin washed up has been like me. Keep em coming . I can filter the content.
A buddhist student once said when confronted by an antagonist ,," your words are like arrows shot at my heart , but they land at my feet.. I choose not to pick them up and stab myself with them."
FWIW I reckon the general commentary on these forums is pretty good. As someone above said, a lot on here have led varied and interesting lives and been to a lot of different places on this planet and therefore have good stuff to share.
*I haven't got the interest (or the time looking at the length of some of the posts) to get involved in the political threads so I can't really speak for that part of the site.
There's at least one person here who's been here for years under multiple pseudonyms with no real purpose other to stir the pot post random links and useless pictures.
It's amazing how much of their life they've pumped into being a constant pain in the backside. What's the point? Isn't there anything better happening in the real world? Family? Hobbies? What a waste of life.
I've only been in the forum for about 5 years and an occasional commenter but for me 2020 especially has been the year that I've turned away from the news and online forums. It's been fairly negative. World sucks. Trump doing something else stupid. China going mental. Bushfires. No holidays. Whatever it's all same same & I've stopped listening because it's too negative and I can't control it. I think the forums might be a symptom of a wider problem this year.
"It’s not the forums turning to crap it’s just heightened intolerance to the same old crap being constantly regurgitated."
"Its a surf website forum it's not a mouthpiece for hate or any other agenda that has seeped in over the course of the last couple of years and when it pops up it will get called out. Some on here get caught out time and time again and do not like it one bit obviously."
"You used to be about verns bakery pig outs after a session at kawana pocket. Now you're a far right fascist. But that's ok . Your choice. Just stop crying that some of us aren't that way. Go ahead and write your anti refugee anti aboriginal anti gay marriage anti Labor essays. But don't cry when you get challenged. It's called free speech remember :)"
"...so rather than admit that you are wrong, and apologize, you just sail on ignorantly and insincerely, wanting to be protected, and wallowing in your obvious protection. You, and as blowblow highlighted, are actually the very problems that you are ranting about."
"Ludicrous, in a nut shell."
This seems fitting.