The App

Cromwell's picture
Cromwell started the topic in Saturday, 18 Apr 2020 at 8:24pm

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Cromwell's picture
Cromwell's picture
Cromwell commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 1:44pm

Blowin, you can get into trouble all by yourself. You have not vilified me but many of your comments are right on the edge for members of other groups. All it takes is for someone to take offence and register a complaint. Of course the offence you cause by your constant insults, belittling of others and threats are legal, but still a reprehensible attempt to shut down anyone who disagrees with your views. And Indo, if you go back and look you will see those attacks are always started from the same direction and, as I said above, constitute a deliberate attempt to drive me and others off the site. Either that or he has a serious meth problem and just loses it.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 3:32pm

Here’s where the abuse started....on the David Icke thread.

Go confirm it . Always playing the victim aren’t you ? I wasn’t aware that you were Blindboy and hadn’t said an offensive word to you previous to this pleasant little outburst, but you were dying for me to realise. Take ownership of your attitude. I still didn’t respond in kind for quite a while , trying to be civil . Soon became obvious I was wasting my time.

“Cromwell commented FRIDAY, 10 APR 2020 at 9:54AM
He is harassing and intimidating people waiting outside the consulate, including no doubt Australian citizens, oh sorry not really Australian are they if they’re ethnic Chinese, all spies, I forgot. Not like yourself a good honest Aussie who took the Chinese dollar as a FIFO workers and retired on his bush block. You are a hypocrite and a sad and pathetic loser with nothing better to do than throw insults around from the safety of your keyboard. If you are so passionate why haven’t you been protesting at the consulate? You have been pouring out toxic bullshit here for years and grossly insulting anyone who dares disagree with you. But I suppose the real world is a bit difficult isn’t it? Insults and aggression don’t work so well face to face. Much safer to hide in hinterland. Fuck me there are some obnoxious idiots around but you are close to the top of the pile.“

https://www.swellnet.com/comment/662685

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 3:42pm

Oh that would be this guy
Raimond Kelly, 55, was charged by police after allegedly threatening several onlookers while cracking a large stock whip outside the Camperdown building on Tuesday March 31 at 10.30am.

So you supported someone whose behaviour was clearly outside the law and so encouraged others to think that it was OK. Mate you really should read that Racial Vilification Act. Your balancing act can't last forever. See ya back soon...er or later

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 6:25pm

I wasn’t cracking the whip and hadn’t insulted you at all but still you thought it’d be cool to say :

“ You are a hypocrite and a sad pathetic loser.”

“ Fuck me there are some obnoxious idiots around but you are top of the pile .”

You’ve just told Indo that the insults start in a one way direction...this is provably true. But you fail to mention that you start the insults.

Time to own your behaviour.

I was polite towards you until you started these insults and now you’re claiming to be a victim and wanting me deplatformed because I’m insulting.

OK .....I’ve had enough of dealing with a silly old man on a Sunday afternoon.

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 4:24pm

Andy, re it's about time for a Bill of Rights:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

My understanding is that that colonies that later formed the Commonwealth of Australia at Federation were under this system of law, and thus subject to this Bill of Rights? Also Habeas Corpus Act 1679:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Act_1679

Does any of this carry through today, given our system of Law is formed by precedent over time? Legal eagles welcomed in reply.

But yes, an Australian Bill of Rights would be excellent, if carefully put together with the rights of individuals defined and championed first and foremost.

Edit: there you go, under the listing of what the rights are:

"Australia
The Bill of Rights is incorporated into Australian law.[40] The ninth article, regarding parliamentary freedom of speech, is actively used.[31]"

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 5:10pm

An update on racial vilification.

“Unlawful behaviour is defined as public acts based on the race, colour,
national or ethnic origin of a person or group of people which are likely
to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate.

'Racial hatred' is an umbrella term used to describe a range of behaviours
from abuse or harassment based on race, to racially biased reporting and
the use of offensive stereotypes in the media. Abuse can be verbal or written.
Some examples of unlawful behaviour might include:
writing racist graffiti in a public place
making racist speeches at a public rally
placing racist posters or stickers in a public place
racist abuse in a public place
making offensive racist comments in a publication.
As with the law of defamation, any person who is involved in the publication
or broadcasting of racially offensive material is potentially liable.
In publishing or broadcasting the material, the relevant media organisation
has engaged in an act that "causes words, sounds to be communicated
to the public" which is "reasonably likely to offend" on
the basis of race.

Johknee's picture
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Johknee commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 5:46pm

Hey AndyM, bring your cherry picker, the ABC has another article for you to peruse. Oh, don't forget your tin foil hat too!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-26/coronavirus-tracing-app-covidsafe...

Solarvalue's picture
Solarvalue's picture
Solarvalue commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 6:13pm

App downloaded and installed. Easy as.

Johknee's picture
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Johknee commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 6:27pm

You're a lunatic, Solarvalue!

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 6:47pm

Downloaded the app.

Half an hour latter and there was a black van out the front with a little satellite disk on the top and two guys with suits and dark sunnies, and it's obvious the Jims antennas plaques on the side are just those magnetic ones you get from Vistaprint.

Waited 2hrs and they didn't go, so deleted the app now they have gone.

Seems you guys were right after all.

Fuck now they know where i live.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 7:15pm

Good thinking Solarvalue.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 1:45am

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troppo dichotomy's picture
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troppo dichotomy commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 8:05pm

you live on dip shit ave and the corner of I've got no comm0n sense st....you're the epitome of the simplistic brainwashed moron the establishment wants to propagate their mandate.

Do you work for the feds or just truly a sheep in donkey clothing?
Solarvalue never heard of him til now.Solar do u surf?never seen u comment?where u been all this time??
anyone with a sense of trail and error is justified to question what is bestowed upon us??

We have covid19 cases in every state and territory now that should've been contained at Christmas island and/or in the Northern Territory!The doctor on the Ruby Princess told the authorities not to the let the passengers off as they were all infected!I always try to sit on the fence and not get too judgemental but start to wonder if they don't really want containment??

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 8:36pm

If you fellas had done your homework and your due diligence I'd say fair play to you but as far as I'm aware you've only got the government's word and the word of a company that the government supports to the tune of $50 million.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 8:37pm

"Credulity is a state of willingness to believe in one or many people or things in the absence of reasonable proof or knowledge. Credulity is not simply a belief in something that may be false. The subject of the belief may even be correct, but a credulous person will believe it without good evidence."

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 9:16pm

ACSC Australian Cyber Security Centre awarded 42 Amazonians your WoG app.
https://awsinsight.com.au/insight/aws-protected-status/

How Secure? Most on Certified Cloud Services List were still start ups (Imaginary.)
So how can Government insist WoG AWS geeks even exist to secure yer app!

All Amazon inhouse services run Wog (Whole of Government) until June 2020.
ASD Australian Signals Directorate is opening an Atlassian MyGovID porthole.
That'd be for the Oz bio metric MyGovID (Australia Card )

Hot Tip! Govt apps are designed to fail so they can upload a dirty back up patch...
The back up app is lawless like a scud tracker! (Govt pushers! First one is free!)
Some say it might happen with suss Corona app...wanna Hot Shot app! Sucker!
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/mygovid-facial-recognition-trials-slated-...
Pretty sure Oz Defence are also renegotiating with less random prying eyes.

Aussie Atlassian is the go between that cross wires the different Apps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlassian

Here's just some the CCSL Geeks banking on today's 'Govt Secure' app.
https://www.cyber.gov.au/news/aws-ccsl
We pay them do it...it's their job to spy on us! If they don't track you they're fired!
AWS are Australia's Data security mob...goes without saying they spy on yer app.
https://www.cyber.gov.au/irap/cloud-services

tbb clicked [Procurement Contracts] You are leaving DTA! > You are leaving DTA!
Wasn't digging for their dirty secrets...Knock Knock! tbb's Gotta Go! NOW!

Solarvalue's picture
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Solarvalue commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 9:32pm

"You're a lunatic, Solarvalue!"
Quite possibly, yes.

"Solarvalue never heard of him til now.Solar do u surf?never seen u comment?where u been all this time??"
Yes, I surf. I been here, just don't forum much.

mikehunt207's picture
mikehunt207's picture
mikehunt207 commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 9:41pm

Wow ! You download the app, what a trio of Aussie patriots, going to have to put you guys up there with Gallipoli and Kokoda vets fellas, doin it for Oztralia . Well done . Now you can give up the spiel trying to convert the unbelievers like a bunch of god bothering JW,s.
Lets rehash this topic in a year or two and see how it works out.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Sunday, 26 Apr 2020 at 11:58pm

World's Richest Boss : "Swellnet Amazonians were holding out for $20 each!"
Fire sale price of a swellnet soul is withheld in the interests of National Security!

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/05/a-man-tried-auctioning-his-facebook-d...

tubeshooter's picture
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tubeshooter commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 1:10am

I,m with troppo , except for the paranoia about swimmers , at 50 thats no longer an issue .I too have made a point of not being tied to my fucking mobile phone these days , I find it liberating to leave the thing it home or switched off when I venture out. Reception here sucks too , but handy to carry in case in you 'actually' need it.
In fact reception here is so bad most have UHF radios and you're more likely to get emergency assistance on the repeater channel than finding a mobile tower,
As for the app,,I believe you have to be in bluetooth range of a person for about 15 minutes for it to register. As a covid19 tracing source its application would seem to be somewhat limited , given the number of potential sources of contact the transmitter of the virus may have had that lasted less than 15 minutes .
If you feel comfortable using it and see it as a benefit , then use it,,, if not ,, don't. Thankfully we have a choice..

thermalben's picture
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thermalben commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 7:13am

Couple of worthy points from others on this App, and security (second one is a lengthy thread, but worth the effort).

Cromwell's picture
Cromwell's picture
Cromwell commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 7:51am
Solitude's picture
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Solitude commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 7:56am

@ Troppo / Tubeshooter

Just curious. With regards to you not using a smart phone, is there any modern day conveniences that you really miss or activities/services that are near on impossible to do? i.e. easy banking, maps, ???

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 8:47am

It really is amazing how many people appear to be taking what the government says on face value.

Craig's picture
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Craig commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 8:55am

I downloaded it. As has been pointed out and also pointed out with Ben's post above, there are way worse apps using and storing your data which is then on sold.

This doesn't trace your location, it just notes if you're with someone else with the app for 15 mins or more through bluetooth. Then you manually have to submit the data yourself if you're positive.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 8:58am

Worth reading.

Infinitely more discussion than ABC or Conversation articles.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/04/challenge-proximity-apps-covid-19-...

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 9:02am

@Craig - "Then you manually have to submit the data yourself if you're positive."

The following from the eff.org article -

"As we understand Apple and Google’s proposal, users who test positive are asked to upload keys that tie together all their identifiers for a 24-hour period.
(We have asked Apple and Google for clarification.)

This could allow trackers to collect rotating identifiers if they had access to a widespread network of bluetooth readers, then track the movements of infected users over time.

This breaks the safeguards created by using rotating identifiers in the first place.

For that reason, rotating identifiers must be uploaded to any central authority or database in a way that doesn’t reveal the fact that many identifiers belong to the same person.
This may require that the upload of a single user’s tokens are batched with other user data or spread out over time."

shoredump's picture
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shoredump commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 9:10am

I’m with BB and ID on this.
I’ve downloaded

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 9:20am

From the University of Melbourne regarding TraceTogether, the Singaporean COVID-19 contact tracing mobile app, and recommendations for Australia -

"The server can know the private data of a user even if they are not infected.

Once a user has tested positive for COVID-19, they need to provide consent to the server to retrieve and decrypt their data log.

This enables the server to obtain the identities of the TraceTogether users that have been in contact with the infected user.

These potentially uninfected users are no longer in control of their privacy.

The app can potentially be (mis-)used for surveillance.

Even though the data logs are only sent to the Central Authority following user’s consent, there is no check to ensure that the request from Central Authority is genuine or not, i.e., whether that user was in proximity of an infected user.

Thus, a curious Central Authority might be able to obtain and decrypt data logs from a large number of users yielding to potential mass-surveillance threat.

Furthermore, even though the local on device data logs are deleted after 21 days, there is no guarantee that the data logs decrypted at the Authority server would also be deleted."

https://eng.unimelb.edu.au/ingenium/research-stories/world-class-researc...

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 9:30am

I don't get the issue though Andy, you could post that stuff for all the other Apps I have.

I've got nothing to hide and as I've said all the other Apps on my phone are doing way more data collecting/mining and tracking than this App which will help us contain outbreaks quicker and move on with life a little quicker and earlier.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 9:43am

Fair enough.

I'm not necessarily trying to dissuade, it just seems that some people are jumping in based on not much at all.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 9:49am

Yeah for sure, if I was any bit concerned I wouldn't be downloading it.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:16am

interesting stuff...

iphone version only works if its operating in the foreground, ie. if you open your email, facebook, anything = useless, ....app turns off = fucking useless ....will be fixed with updates apparently ...shabby start like that = low confidence totally plumetting (for me anyway), not to mention days/weeks of people thinking they're doing the righty, but....

the whole thing seems kind of useless to me, person coughs in front of you in the queue at coles, you get corona'd, app useless because less than 15 minutes contact, infected spreader gone into the abyss... like ships in the night... truly totally useful info totally lost...

adam liaw with his moronic comment we've been hearing for years from morons an
with their pro tech/anti privacy advocacy

no adam, not the case, i have location turned off, and it remains that way until I need it or use it ....which is virtually never...

I'm not against the app so much, I just think its interesting we're having the same old tired debates we've been having for years re. tech. and privacy, and big companies and stuff. and that governments across the world haven't listened, failed to act, trusted in the fuckerberg and bozo types, public got rorted, politics got rorted, and now there's no trust when they need it most ...who would've thought...

I'm not as anti the app as I sound, I just don't see the point, I know every time / every person I stand within 1.5 m of for more than 15 mins. it just how my life is, so the whole thing seems totally pointless for me

if I lived in sydney, or one of our other more 'vibrant' communities, I might see it differently....

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:15am

sypkan, for most pathogens exposure does not guarantee infection. It can be dose dependent, that is the greater the number of pathogens entering your body, the greater the risk. It can also depend on your first and second level immune response. So short exposures, with limited transfer of the virus, are less likely to cause infection. No-one claimed the app was 100% effective. The strategy was developed by epidemiologists to reduce the rate of infection in the community. If you want things to get back to normal quickly, do your bit and download it. If not, then maybe refrain from discouraging others.

thermalben's picture
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thermalben commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:16am

The point re: iPhones only working if no other App is online appears to be an iOS issue rather than a dev problem (it's not the same for Android). Apparently it's due to be fixed soon by Apple. 

I was initially underwhelmed by the idea of the App (especially on the technical point raised above), but I've seen enough persuasive opinions from people I trust to believe that my tiny effort can help for the greater good.

And any security risks - which again, have been scrutinized by much more qualified people than myself - are very small in comparison that the collective benefits the App may provide.

So, I have downloaded and installed.

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:17am

......and how about we let go of the word “vibrant”. If you are unwilling to say exactly what you mean ...... maybe you shouldn’t say it.

thermalben's picture
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thermalben commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:21am

And sypkan - I have no doubt that you're diligent at switching off location services. 

But, could you say the same for everyone else?

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:21am

.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 11:03am

I'm not discouraging others, just telling it how it is, and raising issues that should have been addressed years ago. so much so, that even scotty from marketing and his team have finally started to address them (facebook, google, etc.)

it's the thin edge of the wedge blindboy, and you've gotta keep an eye on them

I find it most interesting that my information comes from abc radio, where adults discuss these issues openly, yet here we are, on a free and easy surfing site, and the mind control police are working overtime ...again...

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:31am

thats how this mess was sold to us... it's all about the vibrance!

it's a very fitting word, that i only threw in to stir one person

but it is a very fitting and telling word, as it was over used so prolifically for decades, ...to oversell a lemon...

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:30am

.......it's all about the vibrance!

But what do you mean by it?

shoredump's picture
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shoredump commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 10:55am

I thought long and hard about it Andy and was actually not going to initially. I’m pretty anti authoritarian (read: massively)
I reckon you are making assumptions and judgements about people you’ve never met and know nothing about, going by your last comment.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 11:00am

high immigration, high density housing, high population....

high prices

it's all been sold to us for decades, that there are not possibly any negatives, because it's all about 'vibrant communities' ...and that's it, no negotiations will be entered into...

I'm not feeling it, you can keep your big, high density, 'global city'

it's now a concrete petri dish

fine if you guys like it, just stop pushing it on the rest of the country

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 11:05am

.........so it is all about density and nothing else? It’s not some crypto-racist code for communities with a high percentage of non-Anglos? It often seems to read that way. My mistake obviously.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 12:06pm

Shoredump, of course I’m making assumptions, we all are.
I just haven’t seen any real discussion about this app apart from government pitches and associated media releases.
I hope you’re right and my assumptions are wrong and everyone is digging deeper but I highly doubt it.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 12:20pm

not just about density

...so you're right there...

the rest of your assumptions are all messed up though

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 12:42pm

I haven't followed it too closely, and I'm very dubious about the app for the same reasons Andy is dubious - this government hasn't earned the public's trust.

Attacking news agencies and journalists, sports rorts, Barnaby and watergate, fossil fuel subsidies, political donations etc etc.

I do, however, like a comment by Sean Doherty that runs along the lines of quid pro quo.

We'll download the app if you create a federal ICAC.

Trust should flow both ways.

shortenism's picture
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shortenism commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 12:45pm

Sean Doherty, just went to the heart of it in an instagram post @seano888, as follows:

Trust goes both ways. We’re currently being expected to sign on to the Fed’s corona app to help locate the virus and ultimately get us out of lockdown quicker. Despite the fact the source code hasn’t been made public, and its being administered by a government as technologically incompetent as they are fucking secretive, its worth doing. The data is nothing that most of us dont already willingly (or obliviously) give up to Google or Facebook. BUT... the reason most Australians don’t feel comfortable to download this thing is that the current Feds are completely untrustworthy, rotten and often just plain corrupt. Think sports rorts, watergate, fossil fuel subsidies, raiding journalists, political donations, anything Angus Taylor or Peter Dutton touch... we could be here all day. So how’s this for a deal... we download your app, you guys create a Federal ICAC, an Independent Commission Against Corruption to call out this bullshit. Both @liberalaus and @australianlabor have voted it down a bunch of times in parliament (half the parliament would be booted out the door) but how about it? Trust goes both ways.

A great initiative and the way forward if it can get some air time and momentum behind it.

shortenism's picture
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shortenism commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 12:46pm

Actually just noticed you post above stunet... Think we posted it around same time

Cromwell's picture
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Cromwell commented Monday, 27 Apr 2020 at 12:52pm

"A great initiative and the way forward if it can get some air time and momentum behind it."

It's a bit of a pipe dream. The time frame is too short for that sort of negotiation even if there was enough time, there is not the slightest risk that the government would consider it. The reality is that, unless we have something to fear from having our contacts exposed, we have a clear choice between standing on our principles or contributing to fewer infections, fewer deaths and a quicker end to the current restrictions.