I know it won't happen in Australia any time soon but I believe there is a strong argument for bringing back the death penalty for those convicted of terrorist offences in Australia. As there is no prospect of rehabilitation for such offenders, the safety of society can only be guaranteed by their permanent removal. Happily, most of these scum are shot dead by police but for the terrorists who survive or failed plotters who are apprehended it would surely be a favourable outcome to see them swinging at the end of a rope.
Stu, I am not the product of my environment. I have had plenty of those to choose from over the course of my life, as no doubt have you.
I am the product of my choosing.
Tarrent. Far left terrorist?
What've you got to say about that one guysmiley? (humour)
"Tarrant called himself an “ecofascist” promoting “green nationalism,” anti-population growth (excepting Europeans), anti-urbanization and pro-sustainable economic practices. He is pro-union, pro-minimum wage and pro-workers rights (to keep out immigrant labor). And he explicitly rejects conservatism, capitalism, individualism and consumerism. “Conservatism is dead,” he wrote. “Thank God. Now let us bury it and move on to something of worth.”"
The problem is internet madness and the radicalisation of everything.
The white supremicist paranoia and fearmongering misses the point. Jacinda ardern is onto it. It's the vileness of an unruly internet that's the problem
Time to tax the internet
It's the white supremacists taking advantage of the vileness of an unruly internet that is the problem. Why do you want to minimise what is clearly a serious problem?
I honestly wish the internet would fuck right off in the same way a junkie wishes heroin would fuck right off.
The world would be a much better place if the internet capability of the entire world - Governments, individuals and corporations- died at midnight tonight.
I think its both things.
1. Allowing it to happen in your country and not preventing an attack.
2. The environment and culture allowing it to grow and flourish.
In Australia, the government have prevented quite a few radical terrorist attacks, this is a good thing, but the bad thing is we must then have an environment where we are giving to much freedom for radical islam to get a hold to some degree.
In Australia we haven't had any attacks similar to NZ and i haven't heard of the government preventing any such attacks???
So the theory that our government or culture is a problem just doesn't hold up, there is no evidence whatsoever of this, there is actually evidence so far to the contrary
So far we have been very successful in all aspects, but i don't think its something we should take for granted, despite our government doing their best I'm afraid sooner or latter we will get an attack of some kind as you would expect terrorist are going to get smarter about going about how they communicate and plan things etc
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you place the blame"
So, are we blaming the failure of leadership of politicians, or are we blaming the media, or are we blaming vile individuals on the internet? Fascinating to see the different opinions of Stu, Peter and BB.
And if we're blaming all three, how do we apportion blame?
And after that, what do we do about it?
"I honestly wish the internet would fuck right off in the same way a junkie wishes heroin would fuck right off."
Tell me about it.
At least tv aint in the picture, I gave that up 25 years ago.
Because you constantly overstate the problem. It's called balance.
The amount of people that believe the white supremicist bullshit is miniscule, both now and back in the one sided view of history you portrayed above.
It's a fair statement, but I find iit barely relevant and totally unhelpful in the current climate
bring on midnight
We gotta stop with the blame and find a way forward
The temptation is control of the internet.
Frankly, that scares me more than anything
tbb sends Wave of the Day ~~~~^~~~~//`~~~~/(~~~~/(C..`[Blowin)
So sypkan, 50 people are murdered by a white supremacist and you complain about "white supremacist paranoia" . Seriously, what are you thinking? Maybe just keep that opinion to yourself for a while, you know respect for those grieving, that sort of thing.
This is an interesting read to understand why these mosque were attacked.
"The Christchurch mosque where a gunman opened fire and killed dozens of Muslims has links to radical Islamic terrorism, according to a New Zealand newspaper.
The newspaper, called Stuff, reported on a story in 2014 about how two Australians killed in Yemen by drone strike were radicalized in Christchurch mosques."
Here is the archived article https://web.archive.org/web/20140727140346/www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-...
Obviously it goes without saying nothing justifies an attack or killing, but it's interesting that the mainstream media aren't reporting on this aspect, which seems to give an indication of why these mosque could have been this guys target.
According to the article it was first pointed out by that crazy Milo Yiannopoulos, but it's kind of hard to just write it off as fake news, seeing the archived website is not something you can fake.
Obviously the archived article may or may not be 100% correct, but thats kind of irrelevant it still gives reason to why this crazy dude choose these mosque.
I've read that in mainstream media too, Indo. Articles reporting on his manifesto.
tit for tat one might say.
If one is prone to being so crass
Give 'em enough rope...
Maybe you could refrain from spewing the usual identity politics bullshit whilst people grieve, at least until we actually know what's actually happened.
I think jacinda adern has done a good job handling this situation. There has been one thing starkly missing from her handling of the situation though, and that is an almost total lack of identity politics from her. With the exception of the hijab thingy, you know, a bit of cultural appropriation there, but apparently that's fine, sometimes or so it seems...
But her narrative has been very careful, or maybe natural, avoiding all the usual tropes and finger pointing.
Meanwhile in oz, it's been an identity politics free for all, as everyone's blaming everyone (except ourseves) as we all totally over react to what some nutjob politician with no votes said, no credentials either for that matter. Wall to wall finger pointing and nasty diatribes flying everywhere.
Was the guy a white supremicist or just anti migration?
Dunno, maybe someone that's read the manifesto could clear that up.
Either way, it's not that important because from what adern has said his biggest goal was notoriety. Facebook fame, to be known and noticed in cyberworld of nasty narcicism.
A product of the internet, and us. All of us, we've all allowed this twistedness to develop
She hasn't done anything special, just playing it safe, really not that hard to do in the circumstances, few hugs, throwing on a hijab and translations in Arabic, its all just virtue signalling and saving face.
Id much rather have a government and prime minister that prevents incidents like this happening.
Were the allegations and links to radical islam in these mosque ever investigated?
If i was a Kiwi id be asking why was a person from another country with mindset and ability to do this let in and then not prevented from doing this?
ID, you’re being a prick now.
Yeh, that is a new low Indo and considering the depths you dwell at that is quite an achievement. Watch out the pressure doesn't get you. It must be hard being an ignorant self-righteous prat 24/7 out there in the real world.
Indo you are more of a nincompoop than I thought
Your humble opinion is not very humble and your two cents ain't worth 1 cent
This thread was quite good with some good debate but you bring the level down to kook
It might not be the internet so much that is the problem but social media. I guess when people talk about the internet they might be talking about social media? Little kids on facebook etc with smartphones. I often see young mums walking with their baby in stroller and instead of making eye contact with the baby they're staring at their phone. Also with kids at the park and instead of interacting with the kids they're staring at their phone.
Indo, your link writes "Daryl, 30 when he died, moved to Sydney around 2008 and converted to Islam soon after arriving. Nathan, still in Christchurch, converted soon after with the help of Saudi Arabian students he was friendly with."
So Daryl, the dude who went to the middle east , was radicalised at the LAKEMBA mosque, not NZ.
This is what happens when people don't read their own links.
"In Sydney, Daryl began attending the Lakemba Mosque, known as a hotbed of radicalism, and drew the attention of counter-terrorism authorities because of the company he kept."
White supremacist apologists are trying every angle.
And isn't it disgusting watching Sco Mo make immigration THE TOPIC when the bodies in NZ haven't even been returned to the families.
He is desperately hoping he gets attacked, so then his minions (Bolt etc) can counter attack the left , saying "ohhhhh how disgusting of the left to use this as a weapon"
It's bile inducing..
"She hasn't done anything special, just playing it safe, really not that hard to do in the circumstances, few hugs, throwing on a hijab and translations in Arabic, its all just virtue signalling and saving face."
At first I couldn't believe you actually wrote that ID, but then again its hard to believe that someone would want to mow down innocent people with an assault rifle either.
Such a fucked up thing to say and believe ID. Have you actually stopped for few minutes and given thought to what it would be like to be in her position and then measured it against her response? Clearly not.....
How low can you go? Is this the bottom? Hmmm, probably not.
“Prime Minister Scott Morrison says an eight-year-old report claiming he once urged the Coalition to score political points with Muslim immigration is an "ugly and disgusting lie”.
After intially declining to comment when the story was first published, the Prime Minister later denied he told shadow cabinet to capitalise on the electorate's concerns about "Muslim immigration", "Muslims in Australia" and the "inability" of Muslim migrants to integrate, but on Wednesday went on the attack when pressed again over whether he made the comments.
"It is a disgraceful smear and an appalling lie," Mr Morrison told ABC TV, noting he had a history of working with the Islamic community as a public figure.
The 2011 report was published in The Sydney Morning Herald by Lenore Taylor, the current editor of Guardian Australia.
"As the author of the report in question I can add that the sources (multiple) have always stuck by what they told me – and subsequently told several other journalists," Taylor said on Sunday.
A number of journalists later published stories which echoed Taylor's initial report, including The Sydney Morning Herald's Peter Hartcher and Andrew Probyn from The West Australian.”
FFS indo ,really" She hasn't done anything special, just playing it safe, really not that hard to do in the circumstances, few hugs, throwing on a hijab and translations in Arabic, its all just virtue signalling and saving face.
If i was a Kiwi id be asking why was a person from another country with mindset and ability to do this let in and then not prevented from doing this?"
lets start at your last statement .....how to prevent a white Australian with no prior criminal history becoming a mass murderer in NZ.......solution , ban white australians?
I can see why you don't like the NZ PM's style as opposed to Australia's , our PM is still contemplating preferences to One Nation/Hanson , who want to stop all Muslim immigration and are islamicphobic.... , racist and religious vilifiers!!
I put up a post a week or so ago , with the question , is pedophilia a whteman's disesase , the outcry and level of insults was pretty damn extreme , when you consider most of my critics are/were white....and then we have this , with a white australian slaughtering defenceless people of all ages , then Anning's letter and HIS SUPPORTERS also white australians , including One Nation.....so where's the outcry on Hanson and Co....or more importantly the white nationalist right need to be exposed , and run out of town......Russia's nice this time of the year!!
Welcome to the party everyone. Indo has been spewing forth for days now; ever since his happy place of far right politics and politicians have been under fire and shown up as hopelessly inadequate in the face of true leadership in Jacinta Arden. Today's contribution is fairly mild compared to what was posted recent days mostly always with a shady twist, an inference, a 1/2 truth or a startling jump in logic. A mini-me echo chamber of Bolt and Fox after dark I'm afraid.
Here's one you'll love Indo!
Oh yes my apologies, i broke an important Swellnet political forum rule (maybe a few), because i forgot she is a Labor leader
Okay just to refresh on the Swellnet political forum rules again:.
1. Liberal politicians and others can be critiqued at every opportunity, but Labor leaders and Greens are strictly off limits.
2. Christianity and Christians can be bagged out at every opportunity possible, the rare christian posters that appear can also be attacked on their beliefs. (hence why don't hang around too long)
Other religions like buddhism/Hinduism etc are generally ignored but if there is a debate no matter what Islam has to be defended before any other religion.
3. Islam can not be critiqued in any way whatsoever to do so is hate speech and Islamphobia and you will be labeled far right wing.
4. When in doubt on any topic or don't have much to add, and can't be bothered posting a meme, just bag the current Liberal leader out, they can also be used as a scape goat for pretty much any topic you can think of or problem in the world.
Or alternatively Trump can be blamed or John Howard, Tony Abbott are also acceptable scape goats.
Suggested fillers/links: Guardian opnion pieces and Saturday paper opinion pieces or other left wing rags, that abide by all rules above.
And yeah off course if the tables were turned and the incident happened in Australia, and the guy was from NZ and Scommo was using props and gimmicks like a little muslim cap, we would all just go.
Good on you Scomo showing some real leadership there.
Opposed to putting all the blame on him and the government and critiquing them for allowing the guy to come here and get a gun and license and then follow through with the attack.
But off course hard questions don't have easy answers.
So lets just blame it all on Islamphobia and Australian government etc instead.
Not exactly sure how we are going to blame all the other extreme islam attacks though like the ones that just went down in Nigeria?
Islamphobia?..can we do that?....Trump or Scommo....mmmm maybe can't use Scomo not really connected to far away that one....okay Trump and Islamphobia...for that one.
Okay..now lets going looking for some links to share.
Indo, you forgot to add your customary "I'm not a labor or liberal supporter and am totally unbiased" disclaimer.
Well I started a Green voter, then went Labor, then last few elections I've just left it blank, but yeah seriously thinking of putting Liberals down for the first time....god knows could be joining Blowin after that.
What about when there is an Islamic attack and afterwards everyone is afraid for the safety of Muslims due to revenge attacks , then when a whitey does it everyone is afraid for the safety of Muslims because the white people are terrorists.
By this rational , shouldn’t we be alarmed as to the prospect of an Islamic revenge attack ?
Strange world we live in.
PS - Blindboy the person in your link needs a reality check.
I voted Sustainable Australia a few hours ago.
Hmmm you reading it Blowin made be curious, read a little but nearly wanted to throw up, not sure if it was the content or the fact every fifth word was hyper linked.
I really don't think thats a good CEO trick anymore anyway, doubt it still ranks good with google search algorithm.
BTW. God i hate articles/writers that harp on about white this and white that, does this include all the other people in Australia that are non European?.....
They do know it's 2019 and that a large proportion of Australians are not european and come from all areas of the globe and skin shades and all these people have varying views on all kinds of issues many have very strong views on islam or immigration or whatever.
Some of my Indonesian wife views and other Indonesians i know views are in all honesty blatant racist or true Islamphobia, i mean seriously when we are at the airport and there is muslims in burqas or the robes the guys wears, she starts freaking out...and I have to tell her not to be silly they are not terrorist they are just normal muslims like your god damn friends....
She is also scared for some reason of people with very dark skin, but ironically works with and is good friends with a African lady, A PNG lady and Aboriginal lady....so go figure.
"I voted Sustainable Australia a few hours ago."
Ha ha poor Pauline.
She served her purpose , now there’s a decent party on the menu .
Here he is ! The man who’s all potatoes and no meat.
I just put a line about you on the sayings thread .
The joke's on you, hey Moe?
all potatoes and no meat!
this one is for you then
This argument of equal equivalence is another smoke screen.
In the west terrorist acts carried out by white nationalists compared to terrorist acts carried out by muslims are running 3 to 1.
For a full discussion on this and other related matters refer to iview and ABCs The Drum from last night.
Forget 'fake news', fuck fake equivalence.
I’m interested , Guy. Got a link ? Sounds a bit stretched . There’ll be some queer statistical distortion. The Islamic freaks have been going nuts.
In Australia there’s been no white supremacy attacks yet more than a few Islamic attacks and more disrupted attempts.
Fake equivalence ?
Western attacks on Islam vs Islam attacks on westerners is true equivalence . Not that hard , mate.
Maybe look the word up in the dictionary?
The Drum has been consistently excellent for a while now. Real discussion, a wide range of views represented. Watch it!
Can’t be arsed watching. But I’ll read a transcript.